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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    So, this is pretty useless theory crafting, but I got bored and thought I'd see what I could come up with for the fastest mile time. I know that using fly speeds characters can get ridiculously high movement, but I used to run track and thought it'd be interesting to limit it to ground-based movement only.

    The Rules:
    • Characters will run, on foot, 5,280 feet as fast as they can.
    • Builds can be up to level 20, no Magic Items (except those created by class features, such as the Transmuter's Stone) or Epic Boons allowed.
    • Each race will be an individual time-trial with the track swept clean between heats, so runners will not be able to obstruct other contestants, drop caltrops, etc.
    • Contestants must cover the entire distance on foot - no fly speeds, teleportation, planar travel, shadow hopping, etc.
    • Shapechanging is allowed, but as above, the use of any flying speeds will result in disqualification. Also, be sure that whatever spell or ability you use to change shape allows for the use of any class features necessary for your build.
    • Each character gets one round (Round 0) to cast short-term buffs, make use of class abilities, etc. Longer-duration buffs from spells or class/race features may be prepared in advance.
    • The clock starts at the beginning of Round 1. Each full round is 6 seconds. On the round a character crosses the finish line, the time taken that round will be calculated as follows: (D/M)*6 seconds, where D is the Distance traveled in feet before crossing the finish line that round, and M is the total amount of Movement they had available for that round.


    First contestant:
    Spoiler: Leon Bolt
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    VHuman (Mobile): Druid (Moon) 2, Fighter 2, Monk 10, Wizard (Transmuter) 6

    Pre-race Prep: Transmuter's Stone (+10' movement) in a pouch on a loose cord tied around my neck, Longstrider cast 15 minutes before race time, some light stretching
    Round 0: Cast Haste (Action); Wild Shape Lion (Bonus Action), w/ my Transmuters Stone remaining around my neck instead of merging with my form.
    Speed = 50' + 10' (Longstrider) + 10' (Mobile) + 20' (Monk) + 10' (Transmuters Stone) = 100' * 2 (Haste) = 200'
    Round 1: Move 200', Dash 4 times (Action, Haste Action, Action Surge, Bonus Action). 1,000' Total.
    Rounds 2-6: Move 800' per round (As above, but without Action Surge). 4,000' Total.
    Round 7: Move 800', cross the finish line after 280'

    Round 7 time = (280/800)*6 = 2.1 seconds


    Total mile time = 38.1 seconds (~95 mph)

    Usain Bolt eat your heart out... Chevy Bolt eat your heart out.
    Last edited by uraniumrooster; 2016-05-13 at 01:21 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Why lion over riding horse? Horses (60') are faster than lions (50').
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by hymer View Post
    Why lion over riding horse? Horses (60') are faster than lions (50').
    Hmm, good point. Lions look cooler?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by uraniumrooster View Post
    Lions look cooler?
    Quite true!
    Last edited by hymer; 2016-05-13 at 03:33 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by hymer View Post
    Quite true!
    The same build wildshaping into a Riding Horse instead of a Lion would cut the time down to 34.5 seconds (~104 mph average speed).

    1100' covered on the first round,
    880' on rounds 2-6, crossing the finish line 660' into round 6.

    Nice catch!
    Last edited by uraniumrooster; 2016-05-13 at 02:18 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    This is cool, I was silly and posted before I read things fully, (which is why I've changed my post completely). Multiclassing can be pretty crazy sometimes and fun to look at :)
    Last edited by AmayaElls; 2016-05-13 at 02:24 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Yeah, that was about the only kind of upgrade I saw, at least for that particular build...and with the restrictions in place, I think it's the best we're gonna get, especially since this kind of contest favors burst speed.

    For what it's worth, I did discover a couple interesting things: eagle totem barbarian gets bonus action Dash while raging, which is useful, but Rogue 2 gets it all the time. The most interesting thing I discovered was a way to move using your reaction: namely, a Vengeance Paladin 7 can move half their speed during an opportunity attack (if they hit, IIRC).


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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    I believe most reputable foot races frown on jabbing, tripping and blocking as a game plan, although running as a blood sport would be interesting. Particularly in D&D land.
    My D&D 5th ed. Druid Handbook

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Yeah, when I picked a mile I was thinking 5,280' would be a long enough distance to balance it out for burst speeds, but when you can double your speed w/ haste then move that distance 4-5x each turn, it adds up quick. I might test what it would look like if it was increased to a marathon or half-marathon distance, but I suspect then it'd be hard to compete with a Wood Elf Monk 18/Rogue 2 w/ Mobile.

    I looked at Eagle Totem too, but I couldn't figure out a consistent way to deal/take damage every round to stop rage from ending early, other than committing 15 levels to Barb.
    Last edited by uraniumrooster; 2016-05-13 at 02:44 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by hymer View Post
    I believe most reputable foot races frown on jabbing, tripping and blocking as a game plan, although running as a blood sport would be interesting. Particularly in D&D land.
    That wouldn't quite work here, because you're not all running at the same time. No, to take advantage of both the Eagle Totem Rage and the Vengeance Paladin chase-down, you would need creatures working with you on the track who are positioned so that they can attack you (keeping rage going) and then run away (triggering an AoO), in such a way that they have poor AC and you have advantage on the attack. If done right, this should give you Bonus Action Dashing as well as Reaction half-moves.

    The only other way I've found to possible abuse that Paladin feature is if a Vengeance Paladin's Wizard friend Shapechanges them into a Marilith, and then their druid friend has several flocks of pigeons strategically positioned along the track to do the "fly away from the marilith, triggering one of her infinite reactions, giving her another half-move" trick.

    With enough pigeons spaced every 40 ft or so, you could theoretically move an infinite distance in a single round...but it would require outside help. That being said, it would require three people with straight-class builds, rather than 1 person with a hodgepodge of classes they only took so that they could win a 1-mile foot race once a day.


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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    That being said, it would require three people with straight-class builds, rather than 1 person with a hodgepodge of classes they only took so that they could win a 1-mile foot race once a day.
    Hey, to be fair, Leon could win 4 or 5 1-mile footraces in a day, as long as he got a Short Rest between them.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    The only other way I've found to possible abuse that Paladin feature is if a Vengeance Paladin's Wizard friend Shapechanges them into a Marilith, and then their druid friend has several flocks of pigeons strategically positioned along the track to do the "fly away from the marilith, triggering one of her infinite reactions, giving her another half-move" trick.

    With enough pigeons spaced every 40 ft or so, you could theoretically move an infinite distance in a single round...but it would require outside help.
    "Sir! We've solved faster-than-light travel!"
    "What? But how?"
    "Well, we're going to need a 17th level Wizard and a flock of pigeons."
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  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Gnoll View Post
    "Sir! We've solved faster-than-light travel!"
    "What? But how?"
    "Well, we're going to need a 17th level Wizard and a flock* of pigeons."
    *: Anywhere from 36 million to 150 million pigeons, depending on what additional buff spells are in play.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2016-05-13 at 03:21 AM.


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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    *: Anywhere from 36 to 150 million pigeons, depending on what additional buff spells are in play.
    Good to know that intergalactic travel is only 36 pigeons away.
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Gnoll View Post
    Good to know that intergalactic travel is only 36 pigeons away.
    I'd complain about the rules-lawyery pedantry going on here, but it'd be hypocritical of me.


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  16. - Top - End - #16
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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    The only other way I've found to possible abuse that Paladin feature is if a Vengeance Paladin's Wizard friend Shapechanges them into a Marilith, and then their druid friend has several flocks of pigeons strategically positioned along the track to do the "fly away from the marilith, triggering one of her infinite reactions, giving her another half-move" trick.
    How does a marilith get to move as a reaction? The only reaction listed in the stat block is parry.
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    I've tallied up all the points for this thread, and consulted with the debate judges, and the verdict is clear: JoeJ wins the thread.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    How does a marilith get to move as a reaction? The only reaction listed in the stat block is parry.
    It probably doesn't. They're talking hypothetically adding seven levels of Vengenace Paladin on the marilith:

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    The most interesting thing I discovered was a way to move using your reaction: namely, a Vengeance Paladin 7 can move half their speed during an opportunity attack (if they hit, IIRC).
    Or giving marilith powers to a 7th level vengeance paladin.
    Last edited by hymer; 2016-05-13 at 03:30 AM.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by hymer View Post
    It probably doesn't. They're talking hypothetically adding seven levels of Vengenace Paladin on the marilith:



    Or giving marilith powers to a 7th level vengeance paladin.
    Ah, okay. So how do you get to be a marilith with the class abilities of a 7th level paladin?
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    I've tallied up all the points for this thread, and consulted with the debate judges, and the verdict is clear: JoeJ wins the thread.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    It required multiple characters (at least 2 I think) the way AvatarVecna described it

    Character 1 (Vengeance Paladin 7/Druid 13) gets a bunch of Pigeons to line up along the track
    Character 2 (Wizard 17+) casts Shapechange to turn the Pally into a Marilith, and as the Pally runs along the track, the pigeons fly away, triggering opportunity attacks which, if they hit, allow the Pally-Marilith to move half their speed again as a reaction.

    I think Shapechange is self-only though, as I recall, so it might not work. Also, all of those Pigeons would have to roll initiative!
    Last edited by uraniumrooster; 2016-05-13 at 03:43 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    Ah, okay. So how do you get to be a marilith with the class abilities of a 7th level paladin?
    I'm thinking Wish and DM indulgence is likely the best possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by uraniumrooster View Post
    It required multiple characters (at least 2 I think) the way AvatarVecna described it

    Character 1 (Vengeance Paladin 7/Druid 13) gets a bunch of Pigeons to line up along the track
    Character 2 (Wizard 17+) casts Shapechange to turn the Pally into a Marilith, and as the Pally runs along the track, the pigeons fly away, triggering opportunity attacks which, if they hit, allow the Pally-Marilith to move half their speed again as a reaction.

    I think Shapechange is self-only though, as I recall, so it might not work. Also, all of those Pigeons would have to roll initiative!
    The spells that let you change into something as powerful as a marilith very sensibly remove class abilities for the duration.

    And then there's the problem of hitting every time, as it doesn't work if you fail to hit. Maybe Warcaster and some cantrip that hits automatically, maybe because it does half damage if you miss? Iffy. Very iffy.
    Last edited by hymer; 2016-05-13 at 03:47 AM.
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Sigh. Guess we'd better put away the pigeons, then. No FTL travel via avian abuse today, crew.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Gnoll View Post
    Sigh. Guess we'd better put away the pigeons, then. No FTL travel via avian abuse today, crew.
    It was a good effort. Should have known better than to mix science and birds though... it never works.

  23. - Top - End - #23
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by uraniumrooster View Post
    It was a good effort. Should have known better than to mix science and birds though... it never works.
    I was braced for the 'Air speed of an unladen swallow' joke. I was pleasantly surprised.
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by hymer View Post
    I'm thinking Wish and DM indulgence is likely the best possibility.



    The spells that let you change into something as powerful as a marilith very sensibly remove class abilities for the duration.

    And then there's the problem of hitting every time, as it doesn't work if you fail to hit. Maybe Warcaster and some cantrip that hits automatically, maybe because it does half damage if you miss? Iffy. Very iffy.
    Polymorph doesn't let you use class features, but Shapechange does...however, as the OP pointed out, Shapechange targets the caster only. If there's any way to target somebody else with a self-targeting spell, we can pull this off, but otherwise this is only a thing that can happen in high-level gestalt.

    Hitting is only a concern if you're not rigging the game in your favor...which, if you've gone through the trouble of setting up a pigeon every 40 ft, why not set up several pigeons every 40 ft. You'll get an AoO against all of them anyway, since it's 1/turn; assuming you get Shapechange on the Vengeance Paladin somehow (which there probably isn't a way to do), they would have to miss every pigeon capable of flying past them...and with a Marilith's attack bonus, the idea that they'd roll that many 1s in a row is laughable...especially if you have continuous advantage from something (like another friendly caster using Greater Invisibility or Foresight or something similar). Assuming each target square is surrounded by 8 pigeons, and all of them fly away triggering an AoO, you've got a 1 in 655 quintillion chance of missing every single pigeon when they fly away.


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  25. - Top - End - #25
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Drop the Monk levels down to 2 and replace them with Barb 5 and Rogue 2 (and an inconsequential 1 of anything). You will be much faster with the Rogue's bonus action Dash.
    Also, a Wood Elf with Mobile is obviously faster than a Human with Mobile.
    Last edited by Giant2005; 2016-05-13 at 04:26 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
    Drop the Monk levels down to 2 and replace them with Barb 5 and Rogue 2 (and an inconsequential 1 of anything). You will be much faster with the Rogue's bonus action Dash.
    Also, a Wood Elf with Mobile is obviously faster than a Human with Mobile.
    For sustained speed, I agree with the choice of Rogue, but for running a mile, the build I posted can finish in under 10 rounds, so using Ki points for Step of the Wind ends up working just as well. Wildshape also replaces the base form's speed, so either Wood Elf or Human end up coming out the same since they both just turn into a Horse.

  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
    Drop the Monk levels down to 2 and replace them with Barb 5 and Rogue 2 (and an inconsequential 1 of anything). You will be much faster with the Rogue's bonus action Dash.
    Also, a Wood Elf with Mobile is obviously faster than a Human with Mobile.
    1) The Monk levels are already giving him Bonus Action Dash; admittedly, at the cost of Ki, but he's got enough for the whole race.

    2) Swapping out 5 levels of Monk for 5 levels of Barbarian would lose him that Bonus Action Dash in a few of those rounds, and would reduce the Monk bonus from +20 to +10.

    The net difference between Monk 10 and Monk 3/Rogue 2/Barbarian 5 in this build is that one can bonus action dash the whole day, so I guess that's something, but it also squeezes two more classes into this already crowded build. Also, racial features don't help much when you're polymorphing into a horse.


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  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Polymorph doesn't let you use class features, but Shapechange does...however, as the OP pointed out, Shapechange targets the caster only. If there's any way to target somebody else with a self-targeting spell, we can pull this off, but otherwise this is only a thing that can happen in high-level gestalt.
    My bad!

    Hitting is only a concern if you're not rigging the game in your favor...which, if you've gone through the trouble of setting up a pigeon every 40 ft, why not set up several pigeons every 40 ft. You'll get an AoO against all of them anyway, since it's 1/turn; assuming you get Shapechange on the Vengeance Paladin somehow (which there probably isn't a way to do), they would have to miss every pigeon capable of flying past them...and with a Marilith's attack bonus, the idea that they'd roll that many 1s in a row is laughable...especially if you have continuous advantage from something (like another friendly caster using Greater Invisibility or Foresight or something similar). Assuming each target square is surrounded by 8 pigeons, and all of them fly away triggering an AoO, you've got a 1 in 655 quintillion chance of missing every single pigeon when they fly away.
    How do you achieve the initiative needed, though? Maybe the pidgeons could ready actions to move away once the marilith/paladin is in place. Edit: Though that would be... weird. Since they're not moving on their turn, this could be an organizational nightmare beyond what it already is.
    The paladin could use scrolls of shapechange, and a level in a class that has it on their spell list. Arcana DC 19 would let you cast it. Except that isn't allowed by the rules of this particular run, of course.

    Unfortunately, anything less than 100% means you can't achieve limitless speed. We're talking interstellar distances (if I got it half right), though.
    Last edited by hymer; 2016-05-13 at 04:35 AM.
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    I'm glad this thread has turned into a discussion on how best to construct a pigeon-based faster-than-light engine via polymorphing someone into a snake demon.
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    Default Re: D&D Footrace: Who can run the fastest mile?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Gnoll View Post
    I'm glad this thread has turned into a discussion on how best to construct a pigeon-based faster-than-light engine via polymorphing someone into a snake demon.
    Well, we're going to run out of pigeons before we leave the solar system, I'm afraid.
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