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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2016

    Default Ranger rework. Feedback wanted

    HIT POINTS
    Hit Dice: d10
    Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + CON modifier
    Hit Points at Higher Levels: 6 + CON modifier

    PROFICIENCIES
    Armor: light, medium, and shield
    Weapons: simple and martial weapons
    Tools: none

    Saving Throws: Strength, Dexterity
    Skills: Choose three from: Animal Handling, Athletics, Insight, Investigation, Nature, Perception, Stealth, and Survival

    EQUIPMENT
    per PHB page 90-91


    —Spell Slots per Spell Level—
    Level Proficiency Bonus Features 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
    1st +2 Favored Terrain, Favored Enemy, Earthly Soul — — — — —
    2nd +2 Fighting Style — — — — —
    3rd +2 Wild Heart 3 — — — —
    4th +2 Ability Score Improvement 3 — — — —
    5th +3 Extra Attack 4 2 — — —
    6th +3 Wild Heart Feature 4 2 — — —
    7th +3 Earthly Soul Feature 4 3 — — —
    8th +3 Ability Score Improvement 4 3 — — —
    9th +4 Wild Heart Feature 4 3 2 — —
    10th +4 Deeper Connection 4 3 2 — —
    11th +4 Earthly Soul Feature 4 3 3 — —
    12th +4 Ability Score Improvement 4 3 3 — —
    13th +5 Wild Heart Feature 4 3 3 1 —
    14th +5 Beast Friend 4 3 3 1 —
    15th +5 Earthly Soul Feature 4 3 3 2 —
    16th +5 Ability Score Improvement 4 3 3 2 —
    17th +6 Wild Heart Feature 4 3 3 3 1
    18th +6 Earthly Soul Feature 4 3 3 3 1
    19th +6 Ability Score Improvement 4 3 3 3 2
    20th +6 Capstone Feature 4 3 3 3 2

    Favored Terrain:
    As per PHB page 91

    Favored Enemy:
    As per PHB page 91, plus:
    you have advantage on Intelligence (Nature) and (Investigation) checks regarding these enemies.
    You are never surprised by enemies of this type.

    Earthly Soul:
    Rangers are connected to the land in a very pragmatic way, and having spent so much time away from the comforts of civilized lands, you have learned to move in ways that other natural predators do.
    Choose an Earthly Soul: The Hunter, The Tempest, or The Ghost

    The Hunter:
    Hunters Eye: You add a favored enemy every even numbered level, rather than just at level 6 & 14
    Steel Will: At level 7, per PHB page 93
    Patient Arrow: at level 11, when hidden from your target, you may make a single ranged attack as an action this round. If it hits, it is a critical hit.
    Feral Senses: at 15th level, as PHB page 92
    Sixth Sense: at 18th level, you may dodge as a bonus action

    The Tempest:
    Blowing Wind: at 1st level, When you are wielding a two weapon fighting weapon in each hand, you gain +10 running speed
    Sound of Thunder: at 7th level, if you do not move this turn, you may occupy a space as though you are a creature one size larger
    Driving Hail: at 11th level, your off hand weapons benefit from your extra attack feature when using two weapon fighting
    Pouring Rain: at 15th level, as an action you may harry your foe. As an action, an opponent within your melee reach must make a CON saving throw, or suffer one level of exhaustion.
    Crash of Lightning: at 18th level, you may dash and make a single off hand weapon attack as a bonus action

    The Ghost:
    Wanderer: at 1st level, On a short rest, you may change one of your favored terrain types to the local type.
    Camouflage: at 7th level, requires 10 minutes, natural material, and favored terrain for the local type. Camouflage allows you hide even if you only have partial concealment, this ability lasts until your next short rest, or until you move out of the terrain type your camouflage is prepared for.
    Vanish: at level 11, as per PHB page 92
    Cripple: at level 15, as an action you may attempt to cripple your foe. As an action an opponent in range of your weapon attack must make a CON saving throw or lose 10 feet of movement speed until completing a short rest
    Parting Shot: at level 18, you may make one weapon attack and then hide, as a bonus action.

    Fighting Style:
    per PHB page 91

    Wild Heart:
    Rangers are connected to the land in a more primal way than city folk, and you understand nature's ways deeply.
    Choose a Wild Heart: The Scout, The Greenseer, or The Beastmaster

    The Scout:
    Fleet: at level 3, you may dash as a bonus action
    Resolve: at level 6, on a short rest, you may recover one level of exhaustion
    Expertise: at level 9, you gain expertise in one skill from the ranger list you are already proficient in.
    Evasion: at level 13, as per PHB page 93
    Area Reading: at level 17, per PHB page 60

    The Greenseer:
    Spellcasting: at level 3, you have learned to use the magical essence of nature to cast spells.
    Spell Slots: per the ranger table, you regain expended slots on a long rest
    Spells Prepared: WIS modifier + 1/2 ranger levels, from ranger spell list PHB page 209
    Spellcasting Ability: Wisdom
    Save DC: 8 + proficiency + WIS modifier
    Spell Attack: proficiency + WIS modifier
    Cantrip: at level 6, you gain one cantrip, selected from the druid spell list, PHB page 208

    The Beastmaster:
    (coming soon)

    Deeper Connection:
    At level 10, you gain the ability to cast the following spells, but only as rituals:
    Detect Poison and Disease, Locate Animal or Plant, Water Walk

    Beast Friend:
    At level 14, you gain the ability to cast the Find Familiar spell, but only as a ritual. When you do, the familiar's type will be Beast, rather than the type specified in the spell.

    Capstone:
    (coming soon)
    Last edited by Waffle_Iron; 2016-05-19 at 02:38 PM. Reason: Spelling and Grammar

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Lake Superior
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yet another Ranger rework. WIP, PEACH

    Wait, so there's effectively 6 archetypes? While each of the archetypes feel balanced, getting access to what is essentially two archetypes puts this class a cut above the rest. The Earthy Soul choices are all at roughly the same strength as a standard archetype, but the fact that you get access to one, and then get to choose another set of features at third level with Wild Heart creates a class that is far more flexible than any other option, and is still on par for combat. I would suggest incorporating either the Earthy Soul features or the Wild Heart features into the core class. This way, there isn't a glut of abilities to choose from, and helps prevent this class from rendering others irrelevant by virtue of being able to do so much on its own.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2014

    Default Re: Yet another Ranger rework. WIP, PEACH

    I'm currently working on a Ranger variant as well that has effectively 2 archetype choices. While I agree that it provides a lot more "adaptability" to the class, I don't think it provides more "versatility". You are still limited by your choices and there is clear opportunity cost within the class and you can't do all the things your class chassis is capable of doing. Practically its not unlike the Warlock's patron and pact boon options: while the pact boon doesn't provide built in bonus features it does lock you into a specific playstyle and opens up specific options through invocations.

    Now, all that being said, I can't say definitively that it does or does not make the class superior to the others with the vast number of available options. I am interested to see what the rest of the playground thinks.

    As for the class, I like that the choices do lock you into a specific playstyle, and I think they each feel rewarding for choosing them. I particularly like the two weapon fighting path, as I think it follows with some of the older traditions of the class for the ranger.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2016

    Default Re: Yet another Ranger rework. WIP, PEACH

    I, too, was thinking about the warlock class when I wrote this class. I kept noticing that many of the "core" ranger concepts seem to be, if not mutually exclusive, then at least, not capable of being simultaneously performed, such as archery and two weapon fighting.

    The Earthly Soul features are primarily combat style options, while the Wild Heart features are the ones I see most people excluding or boosting in Ranger rebuilds.

    Thanks for your support on The Tempest, it was the option I most favored while writing this, and was originally part of the core class. At first, there was no "Earthly Soul", as it was just the tempest features, and the Wild Heart options were Hunter, Ghost, Greenseer, Scout, and Beastmaster.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2016

    Default Re: Yet another Ranger rework. WIP, PEACH

    Bump.
    Hoping for feedback or comments.

    :)

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2015

    Default Re: Ranger rework. Feedback wanted

    awesome stuff. Having a lot of customization is pretty neat. I'd like to see the capstone.

    nothing stands out to me as being broken, with a once over.
    Spoiler: bad tactics
    Show


    I look at the lich and smirk a bit, as I bring myself back to my feet

    "What are you smiling about?" it says

    "hehe, it looks like you've made... a grave mistake :D"

    the bard, actively bleeding out on the ground *ba-dum-tss*

    "Ha! Nice try. Telling a bad joke to try to make your opponent drop their guard. Oldest trick in the book. Trust me, I was there."

    *barbarian falling, sword in hands, from the top of the castle wall directly above the lich*


  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2014

    Default Re: Ranger rework. Feedback wanted

    After going over this a little more closely here is what I think:

    I feel like the Hunter doesn't have the strong mechanical theme like the other two Earthly Soul choices. Its theme is good, but feral senses and dodging as a BA aren't as strong for the ranged master as they would be for a melee combatant. I think they fit better under Ghost.

    The Tempest, as I said before, is really awesome and captures that TWF master idea. I think Pouring Rain is a great idea, but may not meet your intent. The first couple of levels aren't particularly debilitating to monsters, and then it ramps up quickly into an instant KO. It could reward a playstyle built around never making attacks or never be used except on bosses.

    The Ghost captures a lot of what I think of as a Ranger, and I really like the feel. Parting Shot is a bit redunt as Vanish allows you to Hide as a BA anyway, so adding a removal of conditions to hide would be apt.

    I'm particularly excited to see your take on a capstone and beastmaster, as I think those are the two biggest sticking points with the ranger.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2016

    Default Re: Ranger rework. Feedback wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Phawksin View Post
    After going over this a little more closely here is what I think:

    I feel like the Hunter doesn't have the strong mechanical theme like the other two Earthly Soul choices. Its theme is good, but feral senses and dodging as a BA aren't as strong for the ranged master as they would be for a melee combatant. I think they fit better under Ghost.

    The Tempest, as I said before, is really awesome and captures that TWF master idea. I think Pouring Rain is a great idea, but may not meet your intent. The first couple of levels aren't particularly debilitating to monsters, and then it ramps up quickly into an instant KO. It could reward a playstyle built around never making attacks or never be used except on bosses.

    The Ghost captures a lot of what I think of as a Ranger, and I really like the feel. Parting Shot is a bit redunt as Vanish allows you to Hide as a BA anyway, so adding a removal of conditions to hide would be apt.

    I'm particularly excited to see your take on a capstone and beastmaster, as I think those are the two biggest sticking points with the ranger.
    Great feedback, thanks.

    When designing the hunter, I was thinking, not specifically about Aragorn, but about types "like" him. I see a perhaps grizzled ranger, never caught unaware (all the preferred enemies), steely eyed (steel will and patient arrow), and... ? what else? Honestly, They were the last two abilities I slotted into any of the Earthly Soul or Wild Heart features. Beastmaster notwithstanding.

    I figured feral senses is a perfectly good ranger ability, that I had left unused, and which fit the idea of a ranger who is always ready. Likewise with dodge as a bonus action. I assume that most hunters will pick up the Sharp Shooter feat before Sixth Sense comes on line, and it's not a terrible thing for an archery focused martial to nearly always be able to attack without disadvantage or cover penalties, and to cause disadvantage in return to any attacks that do come his way. I don't want to defend the choices as wholly great or anything, just explaining what my design thoughts were. I am open to suggestion.

    I've hesitated putting the Beastmaster together, because there's so many things I know players would want, and consider essential, that my brew keeps devolving into another mini-sub-sub-class, or laundry list to choose from.
    I should have a bit more time in the next few days to finish putting my thoughts on the Beastmaster together, but I'm still drawing a blank on the capstone.

    As always, I welcome feedback, balance commentary, or suggestions.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2014

    Default Re: Ranger rework. Feedback wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Waffle_Iron View Post

    I figured feral senses is a perfectly good ranger ability, that I had left unused, and which fit the idea of a ranger who is always ready. Likewise with dodge as a bonus action.

    <snip>

    I've hesitated putting the Beastmaster together, because there's so many things I know players would want, and consider essential, that my brew keeps devolving into another mini-sub-sub-class, or laundry list to choose from.
    I should have a bit more time in the next few days to finish putting my thoughts on the Beastmaster together, but I'm still drawing a blank on the capstone.
    My concern with feral senses in what amounts to the ranged build is its 30 foot limit, but you are right, its a great "ranger-y" ability that really ought to go some place. Dodge as a BA is also cool and handy (especially if being forced to be in melee), but doesn't provide the same benefit to ranged characters.

    As for the beastmaster, there are so many versions floating around already I think running with just one theme that you like the most is good. Throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks.

    As for the capstone, I'm at as much of a loss as most others. A lot of the capstones remove/reduce limits on class resources or recharge those resources, but most rangers don't rely on those. If you can come up with something that screams "Wilderness Survival Master" I'll give you a high five.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2016

    Default Re: Ranger rework. Feedback wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Phawksin View Post
    Dodge as a BA is also cool and handy (especially if being forced to be in melee), but doesn't provide the same benefit to ranged characters.
    How about dodge as a Reaction? It's a part of the action economy mostly unused by archers, I think.

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