A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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    Default New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

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    Not a lot to say here. Based on my mother diffusing essential oils in our house.

    I'm mostly concerned with the spell's power relative to its level, since it effectively allows you to cast an area version of any spell you have a potion for. However, the fact that more powerful potions are more expensive may effectively balance that out.


    Diffuse Potion
    Transmutation
    Components: V, S, M (Potion touched)
    Level: Air 5, Drd 4, Rgr 4, Wiz/Sorc 5
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: One touched potion, worth at least 50 gp.
    Duration: 1 round
    Saving Throw: Fortitude negates

    You cause a potion that you touch to turn into a misty vapor which is too thin to obscure vision. When the potion's vial is opened or shattered the vapor spreads in a 20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high. Any creature that breathes the vapor is affected as though they had imbibed the potion you touched. If the creature wouldn't normally be affected by the spell effect the potion emulates, then the diffused form has no effect. The vapor disperses after one round. If the vapor has not been released after one round, it returns to its liquid form.

    This spell only works on normal potions. It fails when used on an oil or another magical liquid, or potions created or modified by other abilities.

    This spell does not function underwater.
    Last edited by UristMcRandom; 2017-08-21 at 10:43 PM.
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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    This is the wrong way to consume spells.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0Yd...outu.be&t=1m2s

    I can't wait to see a bard that uses only diffused potions for combat.
    Last edited by DeadpanSal; 2016-05-17 at 07:20 PM.
    . . .

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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    I think this spell would be ok. It's not too powerful, as being at 4th level prevents wand spam. So the average spellcaster could only diffuse a couple potions a day.

    It might need a note that it only works on ''normal'' potions, not ''all magical liquids''. And it will need the line of ''a creature must still be a valid target for the spell effect, even in the diffused state.'' So for example a diffused potion of enlarge person will still only effect humanoids.

    And there is no reason this should not be a Wizard/sorcerer spell

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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    I think this spell would be ok. It's not too powerful, as being at 4th level prevents wand spam. So the average spellcaster could only diffuse a couple potions a day.

    It might need a note that it only works on ''normal'' potions, not ''all magical liquids''. And it will need the line of ''a creature must still be a valid target for the spell effect, even in the diffused state.'' So for example a diffused potion of enlarge person will still only effect humanoids.

    And there is no reason this should not be a Wizard/sorcerer spell
    Agreed. Modified the spell description accordingly.

    I also added it to the Wiz/Sorc list as a 5th level spell, so they get it at the same time as Air Clerics.
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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    This gives you significantly more bang for your buck, I would think. Take one unit of CLW, diffuse it over a bunched up crowd, and they all benefit from CLW. Unless I am reading this wrong.

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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    I doubt the spell would let multiple people benefit from the potion. That'd be exponentially powerful. Maybe the first only, or you can choose how to disperse it. For instance, a Cure spell might heal 1d8+5. You roll that beforehand and this spell would let you actually divvy that up. Could be an interesting feature.
    . . .

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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    So something like Enlarge Person, where it was a single status effect with no variable effect, would be a random roll to see who it effected in a crowd?

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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    I don't see how giving a cure light wounds, mass to people for close to the same spell slot that actually costs gold in addition to the spell slot is too strong. The cure line of spells are crap, anyway, and the spell is limited by the potion's caster level.

    The most powerful things I can think of would be personal spells in potions that you can now spread to everyone in a decent radius. But even then, you're limited to a potion--their maximum level is 3rd. I don't think there's going to be a way to overpower this spell at its current spell level.

    EDIT: Even enlarge person, mass is a 4th-level spell, so if you wanted to do that, it would be more efficient to just cast that spell instead of buy a potion of enlarge person and then cast this one.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2016-05-18 at 01:04 AM.
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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    I used CLW as an example because that is one that came to mind. But it still could be a way to mass potion effects, if that is the intended use of the spell. The only other way I could see this working if you could designate who the creature who will take in the one unit of the potion. This only seems odd to me because if it takes a vial of potion to have an effect, why does diffusing it make it strong enough to affect multiple targets. Can one use this spell to concentrate potions through repeat applications? Or can one design a market of gaseous potion balls: Glass spheres of gaseous potions that have a area of effect. A bit more expensive, but it makes some potions a lot more effective.

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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Wow. I guess this is why I shouldn't log off for long periods of time, huh?

    To clarify: The spell is intended to grant the full effect of the potion to every creature in its area. Is that insanely powerful? Yes, but that's why I made it a 4th/5th level spell, to try to balance that out. That's also why I mentioned in the pre-class info that I'm concerned about the spell level.

    As an example of the spell's power, let's take Enlarge Person, Mass. It's a 4th level spell, meaning a Wizard can cast it once per day at 8th level, and can target up to 8 creatures of his choice.

    At 10th level, that same Wizard gains the ability to cast Diffuse Potion, which means that with a 250 gp potion of Enlarge Person, he can spread it into a cloud and affect every creature within a 20-ft. radius of him. Let's envision that, shall we?

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    Assuming the Wizard surrounds himself with people, he can affect up to 44 Medium- or Small-sized creatures (including himself) with one casting. That expends his only 5th-level spell slot for the day (barring bonus spells), and costs him a 250 gp potion. Compare this to the 10 people he can get for free by casting Mass Enlarge Person, and the relative power of diffusing begins to appear.

    I'm honestly considering making it a 6th level spell across the board, just to balance out the ability to completely stomp the Mass spells by spending some gp on potions.
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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by UristMcRandom View Post
    Let's envision that, shall we?

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    Now I'm worried about the poor sap in the center of the radius crushed by his embiggened friends.
    . . .

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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    The most powerful things I can think of would be personal spells in potions that you can now spread to everyone in a decent radius. But even then, you're limited to a potion--their maximum level is 3rd. I don't think there's going to be a way to overpower this spell at its current spell level.
    Personal spells cannot be made into potions.

    I might double up on the 3rd level spell limit. There are ways to get higher level potions that would break this hard. The first issue I can see is that players will be going through books for every potion under the sun.

    Against non intelligent enemies this can be used offensively too, which is quite cool. Intelligent enemies will probably just hold their breath for a round though.

    I might require the spell to be attuned to a potion as part of preparation, or a separate attunement for spontanious casters over a few mins. It is otherwise massively tactically versatile, effectively letting you spontaniously cast a mass version of any potion you have. It looks fine without the spontanious bit though.

    I like it.
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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    I'd like to take a moment to note that the spell doesn't exclude the caster; so be very careful to not accidentally touch the Potion of Inflict Moderate Wounds.

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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by ace rooster View Post
    Personal spells cannot be made into potions.
    Oh yeah. Been playing with a house rule that allows them for so long I forgot. My bad.

    I guess that just hammers in that there aren't many potions that could break this, if any.
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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eno Remnant View Post
    I'd like to take a moment to note that the spell doesn't exclude the caster; so be very careful to not accidentally touch the Potion of Inflict Moderate Wounds.
    That's why I was thinking about sealed glass vials with the gas contained inside. Lob it into the middle of a mob of enemies, and watch them scream in agony. Heck with the expansion radius, I do not know if there really would be a save involved.

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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    That's why I was thinking about sealed glass vials with the gas contained inside. Lob it into the middle of a mob of enemies, and watch them scream in agony. Heck with the expansion radius, I do not know if there really would be a save involved.
    Given that the spell description says that a creature that breathes the vapor is affected as though they imbibed the potion, which means that they're effectively having Inflict Moderate Wounds cast on them. I'd rule that Spell Resistance and saves apply as though the spells were cast normally.
    Last edited by UristMcRandom; 2016-05-18 at 02:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by OctoberRaven View Post
    "It's a fireball. It's basically a magic hand grenade."
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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Fair enough. I was thinking on how to effectively save against a volume of gas effectively expanding out to ~20 ft in all directions of point of origin instantaneously at high enough concentration to have an effect, and figuring you probably couldn't even get a chance to hold your breath by that point.

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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    Fair enough. I was thinking on how to effectively save against a volume of gas effectively expanding out to ~20 ft in all directions of point of origin instantaneously at high enough concentration to have an effect, and figuring you probably couldn't even get a chance to hold your breath by that point.
    There probably should be a line about if people can hold their breath as a response to it.

    I can see allies knowing to hold their breath if you are about to cast it on an Inflict spell or debuff potion, but that would be prepared.
    I also see it as funny if foes see you creating a strange vapor, so they hold their breath to avoid it, only to find out it was Cure Light Wounds.

    To those mentioning throwing a potion: based on a strict wording, I don't think that would work. It reads currently as the vapor expands when the potion is touched, so being capped/sealed wouldn't really matter (even if that doesn't make sense)--the spell states that the vapor expands when the spell is cast.
    Thus, no using potions as thrown weapons.

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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    There probably should be a line about if people can hold their breath as a response to it.

    I can see allies knowing to hold their breath if you are about to cast it on an Inflict spell or debuff potion, but that would be prepared.
    I also see it as funny if foes see you creating a strange vapor, so they hold their breath to avoid it, only to find out it was Cure Light Wounds.

    To those mentioning throwing a potion: based on a strict wording, I don't think that would work. It reads currently as the vapor expands when the potion is touched, so being capped/sealed wouldn't really matter (even if that doesn't make sense)--the spell states that the vapor expands when the spell is cast.
    Thus, no using potions as thrown weapons.
    While we're on this subject, I actually have considered making the spell simply convert the potion to mist, and then you have to open or shatter the vial separately to release it, but I'm unsure of the balance implications of allowing any potion to be converted into a grenade.

    I'm planning on adding something about holding your breath, just figuring out how to word it.
    Quote Originally Posted by OctoberRaven View Post
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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Update:
    • Remembered that I said I'd update this
    • The potion the spell is cast on is now converted into mist inside the vial, which must be opened or shattered to release the mist. Yes, this does mean you can now make Inflict Light Wounds grenades.
    • Non-flat-footed creatures that are aware of you can hold their breath to null the cloud's effect. Thus, grenades need to be delivered to crowds of flat-footed/unaware creatures to be of effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by OctoberRaven View Post
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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Effective result of spell is that you get a mass version of another spell, 3rd level or lower, spontaneously chosen but with an expensive material component that scales depending on effect and must be chosen beforehand. Since personal-only spells are automatically out it shouldn't do anything you couldn't already do with a War Weaver for free.

    I would suggest changing it to: "The vapor disperses after 1 round, or returns to it's original form if not released before then." To make it absolutely clear you can't stockpile the effects. And a few more words, "This spell only works on normal potions. It fails when used on an oil or another magical liquid, or potions created or modified by other abilities."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    As another nitpick to avoid abuse: make the Component a "potion touched, worth x or more gp", where x is the minimum cost of a potion. (I forget what it can be.)

    To avoid anyone claiming that, since it has no cost, an infinite number of them are in your component pouch. A bit silly to add, but it doesn't hurt anything to add it in.

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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Effective result of spell is that you get a mass version of another spell, 3rd level or lower, spontaneously chosen but with an expensive material component that scales depending on effect and must be chosen beforehand. Since personal-only spells are automatically out it shouldn't do anything you couldn't already do with a War Weaver for free.

    I would suggest changing it to: "The vapor disperses after 1 round, or returns to it's original form if not released before then." To make it absolutely clear you can't stockpile the effects. And a few more words, "This spell only works on normal potions. It fails when used on an oil or another magical liquid, or potions created or modified by other abilities."
    I actually intended for the effect to be able to be stockpiled, I'll edit the text to specify that. Oh, and added.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    As another nitpick to avoid abuse: make the Component a "potion touched, worth x or more gp", where x is the minimum cost of a potion. (I forget what it can be.)

    To avoid anyone claiming that, since it has no cost, an infinite number of them are in your component pouch. A bit silly to add, but it doesn't hurt anything to add it in.
    Done and done.
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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    I recommend heavily against stockpiling. Being able to personally cast a mass version of most lower level spells? No problem. Being able to massively increase the effective value of an item for free? Big problem. It brings the question of why almost every potion above 1st level doesn't have this spell cast on it, since even paying for the spell is insanely cheap compared to the price of buying more than one potion. It can also be used to effectively quicken the effect by dropping the vial as a free action, or just dump a box out and trigger as many as you've stockpiled to bomb people into oblivion.

    There's also no limit on number of targets, which while potentially acceptable in a limited high cost spell you personally cast, when made into a free upgrade beats out the standard mass spells which have strict target limits, but this isn't nearly as bad as the other reasons.

    Of note is that while there are a good few "caster just gets this new class feature" spells (Animate Dead being the standard), there are not very many stockpilable spells (I have a set of notes on all those I've found). Aside from the pheonominally bad idea that is Shalantha's Delicate disk, there aren't any worth noting. That spell is at 6th level, costs 200gp, and stores any AoE up to 5th level. The gp and level limits aren't as bad here, but they still smash standard pricing to pieces.

    I can't tell what part you edited to make the current intent of allowing the stockpile clear. The discrepancy is that with a spell duration of 1 round the text saying it disperses after release is moot, since the spell wears off after a round and it returns to liquid anyway. You need a different main duration entry and/or a see text note.
    Last edited by Fizban; 2016-06-18 at 08:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
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    Default Re: New Spell: Diffuse Potion [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    I recommend heavily against stockpiling. Being able to personally cast a mass version of most lower level spells? No problem. Being able to massively increase the effective value of an item for free? Big problem. It brings the question of why almost every potion above 1st level doesn't have this spell cast on it, since even paying for the spell is insanely cheap compared to the price of buying more than one potion. It can also be used to effectively quicken the effect by dropping the vial as a free action, or just dump a box out and trigger as many as you've stockpiled to bomb people into oblivion.

    There's also no limit on number of targets, which while potentially acceptable in a limited high cost spell you personally cast, when made into a free upgrade beats out the standard mass spells which have strict target limits, but this isn't nearly as bad as the other reasons.

    Of note is that while there are a good few "caster just gets this new class feature" spells (Animate Dead being the standard), there are not very many stockpilable spells (I have a set of notes on all those I've found). Aside from the pheonominally bad idea that is Shalantha's Delicate disk, there aren't any worth noting. That spell is at 6th level, costs 200gp, and stores any AoE up to 5th level. The gp and level limits aren't as bad here, but they still smash standard pricing to pieces.

    I can't tell what part you edited to make the current intent of allowing the stockpile clear. The discrepancy is that with a spell duration of 1 round the text saying it disperses after release is moot, since the spell wears off after a round and it returns to liquid anyway. You need a different main duration entry and/or a see text note.
    And I'm back!

    After rereading the spell, as well as Fizban's critique, the potions will not be able to be stockpiled. I'm simply unable to find a justification that answers the (excellent) points he raised. I also cleared up a bit of nonsense on my part. Update notes follow.

    Update:
    • Unreleased potions now explicitly return to liquid form when the spell ends, while released potions disperse. This is to prevent the stockpiling of mass-spell bombs.
    • Removed text about holding your breath - I somehow managed to forget the fact that this spell allows a Fort save to negate the effect of the diffused potion.
    Quote Originally Posted by OctoberRaven View Post
    "It's a fireball. It's basically a magic hand grenade."
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