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  1. - Top - End - #1171
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    So what is needed for us to go forward?

  2. - Top - End - #1172
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    I'm glad you put it that way, because that prompted a thought from me.

    I've been wrestling with how to depict this large-scale battle in a play-by-post format for...way too long, and I'm still not at all sure how to make it work. Would skipping past the battle, narrating the (obviously victorious) result, be okay with you all?
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  3. - Top - End - #1173
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    RolandDeschain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    thumbs up from me

    these "big battle" scenes puts a great deal of undue pressure on the DM in my humble opinion

  4. - Top - End - #1174
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Totally ok with this. I was curious, too. I've run two IRL games with large battles... and they were both a mess. I don't think I've seen an elegant answer to this.
    Hey, did my first homebrew class. Check it out.

  5. - Top - End - #1175
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    RolandDeschain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    I wrote up one as a DM and it was insanely time consuming. I tried to check the PC character sheets to find something unique that they could each contribute to the battle, then I included that in the narrative.....it took forever to write up. What did I get for the effort? Nada...heck two of the pc's even dropped and never came back. I've already made up my mind that if I'm ever in that position again, I'll do a tiny narrative that focuses on the PCs surveying the battle field post battle scene....just a massive hand-wave.

  6. - Top - End - #1176
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    I am totally up for that.

    Small question that may need asking is how much of our resources are depleted, and how much time was spent.
    For this where we are overmatched numbers-wise Tellos would use all buffs and in combat spells available to him
    Leaving him with something like a fist of stone, benign transposition, and a silent image. He would focus on using martial spirit and crusader strike to keep fallen allies from dying.

  7. - Top - End - #1177
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I'm glad you put it that way, because that prompted a thought from me.

    I've been wrestling with how to depict this large-scale battle in a play-by-post format for...way too long, and I'm still not at all sure how to make it work. Would skipping past the battle, narrating the (obviously victorious) result, be okay with you all?
    I'm good with that too. Since this is a module I've been curious how handling these were done in their point of view (IRL or PbP). I've so far successfully made my Will saves not to open the book and get "spoilerized". I've been assuming the players were meant to give plans and the book gave criteria for how things go. If so and more details are desired just let me know (a general level map would be great at that point). Heck, maybe the module expected us to sacrifice the paladins in a battle while we go around.... or find ways around the battle totally and we're all about to get wiped. TPK and TAK... total army kill.

    In terms of resources used (which would unfortunately include lives), we have a great way to recharge wands and our mythic powers are pretty special. For example, Semult can use his mythic charges to keep casting his maximum level spells at a more powerful level than normal. With his spells being mostly battlefield control that should go a long way at least until we start facing highly intelligent enemy generals.

    Yeah, looking forward to continuing. Do we want to find a replacement for CWater? No posts in 3 months.
    Spoiler: Games
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    Keston Tornok for GF's AoW
    Loradralsornux for GF's Savage Tide
    Suga for Kish's The Sunless Citadel
    Cendrik for J-H's Servants of the Thrallherd
    Semult for Kish's Wrath of the Righteous
    Faazeran for kinem's Drow Against Midnight

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  8. - Top - End - #1178
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavir View Post
    I'm good with that too. Since this is a module I've been curious how handling these were done in their point of view (IRL or PbP). I've so far successfully made my Will saves not to open the book and get "spoilerized".
    That would tell you far too much and yet not what you were looking for; the default assumption of the Pathfinder module is using a Pathfinder mass combat system which we haven't been using (but which I believe you can find it Ultimate Adventures, if you're curious about it).
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  9. - Top - End - #1179
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Perfect answer, thanks!
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    Keston Tornok for GF's AoW
    Loradralsornux for GF's Savage Tide
    Suga for Kish's The Sunless Citadel
    Cendrik for J-H's Servants of the Thrallherd
    Semult for Kish's Wrath of the Righteous
    Faazeran for kinem's Drow Against Midnight

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  10. - Top - End - #1180
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    That would tell you far too much and yet not what you were looking for; the default assumption of the Pathfinder module is using a Pathfinder mass combat system which we haven't been using (but which I believe you can find it Ultimate Adventures, if you're curious about it).
    We tried to break out the Mass Combat rules in one of my 'table games' a couple of years ago and it was a friggin' disaster....but, I'll be honest, that may have been because none of us fully had our heads wrapped around how they worked.

    I still believe PbP requires a more liberal application of DM "Handwavium" than table games, but that's just my opinion.
    Last edited by RolandDeschain; 2020-07-07 at 10:16 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #1181
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    @Kish - do you want me to "lead out" with a post-battle type of post? I'm more than willing. If not, TOTALLY understand. If so, anything elements you want me to sprinkle in?

  12. - Top - End - #1182
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    I am surprised but pleased to see a new IC post

    Are any of the rest of you still around?

  13. - Top - End - #1183
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    I'm here. Slowly starting an IC. Lot to make blend.
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    Keston Tornok for GF's AoW
    Loradralsornux for GF's Savage Tide
    Suga for Kish's The Sunless Citadel
    Cendrik for J-H's Servants of the Thrallherd
    Semult for Kish's Wrath of the Righteous
    Faazeran for kinem's Drow Against Midnight

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  14. - Top - End - #1184
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Here, too.
    We are outside the wall with a good view, which means the guards have a good view.
    Thinking Jemus and Aron, with whoever can sneak, move up the fall and try to find a spot/way to climb up without being seen. I don't think anyone can teleport up, unless I missed it.
    Hey, did my first homebrew class. Check it out.

  15. - Top - End - #1185
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Didn't one of you have some sort of small flying companion or familiar?
    I could use benign transposition in combination with that to get a few ppl up the wall. First person would be on their own until the critter made it back up tho.

  16. - Top - End - #1186
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    CWater's Druid has a familiar. One more level of Druid gives access to Stone Shape. CWater hasn't signed in for months and not posted for longer than that. Do we keep NPCing the char? Get a replacement?

    I can do 180' feet of teleport per day. I can bring others but that adds up. I bring one person with me 60' that counts for 120'. Don't know how tall the walls are (Kish?) but it's likely to be one way/one time. I can cast benign transposition too, and use mythic charges for extra castings.

    I could use Silent Image to hide a scuffle atop one of the towers. It'd have to be a quick fight to prevent the alarm being raised.

    Even if we get some of us up there, we still have the rest of the party and a small army to get in. Are there any gates? What are they like?

    Maybe Sosiel can cast Stone Shape to give us a way in. Does Nurah know a secret way in? Aron have a suggestion on siege tactics or infiltration?

    I and/or Tellos should prepare Message next rest.

    If we control one tower, can we keep it long enough to use the catapult to damage the wall enough?

    Do we use our army to siege as a distraction? Be nice to have them on the other side of the wall.

    How far between the towers? I'm wondering if we control one at night if they are far enough away to be unseen via darkvision from another tower.

    <please excuse the brain dump>
    Spoiler: Games
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    Keston Tornok for GF's AoW
    Loradralsornux for GF's Savage Tide
    Suga for Kish's The Sunless Citadel
    Cendrik for J-H's Servants of the Thrallherd
    Semult for Kish's Wrath of the Righteous
    Faazeran for kinem's Drow Against Midnight

    Extended Signature - More detailed game/character notes

  17. - Top - End - #1187
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    My thought is that if we can get on the wall, we should be able to open a gate.
    But before we do that, it would be good to know if there are any less known entrances.

    If you can teleport up, you can drop a rope.
    Last edited by Novabomb; 2020-09-03 at 09:26 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #1188
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Sorry for the double post but I have a pair of new questions:

    How high is the wall?

    Are the gate controls on the wall, or behind the wall?

    I had been saving the discovery of Sudden Shift ACF for a point where it was narratively appropriate.
    But since this seems to be a sticking point, can we say Tellos has learned of this power off screen?

    This means he can have up to 4 turns of Climb, Fly, Burrow speed. That would surely be enough to burrow under the wall.
    Depends on how high the wall is if he wants to make the top.

  19. - Top - End - #1189
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Replacement characters post-Mythicing is tricky, and I think we have enough players, so my preference is for Alamryn to fade into the background until/unless CWater comes back.

    According to Nurah, the controls for the gate are in the gatehouse. The citadel itself stands approximately 600 feet tall and 200 feet wide; the guardtowers are 40 feet tall each.

    Learning Sudden Shift off-screen is a good idea.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  20. - Top - End - #1190
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    On the plus side if we can get to the wall, Tellos can get up it in a single round with double move (Getting a climb speed). Depending on state of armor, he might spend the charge on the cronowalker charm to get the extra distance then benign transposition someone up, or drop a rope. 50ft feet of rope should be basically perfect for this.

  21. - Top - End - #1191
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Sorry for the posting delay. Don't think I can finish the IC post tonight, hopefully tomorrow morning if not then Sunday for sure. Came up with an alternate way to take a tower top.

    Questions: I realize we didn't talk much about what to do after taking a tower. Do we want to plan for opening the gate and start an all out battle or take a tower top to infiltrate who we can? We don't know how many they have inside the city. Maybe we would get an idea once we reach the top. A Message spell would be useful.

    Is there a tower at the gatehouse? If not, is there a path on top of the wall to move from the captured tower top to the top of the gatehouse?

    We can make use of the catapults for ourselves too.
    Spoiler: Games
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    Keston Tornok for GF's AoW
    Loradralsornux for GF's Savage Tide
    Suga for Kish's The Sunless Citadel
    Cendrik for J-H's Servants of the Thrallherd
    Semult for Kish's Wrath of the Righteous
    Faazeran for kinem's Drow Against Midnight

    Extended Signature - More detailed game/character notes

  22. - Top - End - #1192
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    I figured the plan was to open the gate and let the rest of our force storm in.
    The party as a whole is not good enough at stealth do significant sabotage.

    Note that typically emplaced catapults do not rotate so that they can target the inside of the fortress.

  23. - Top - End - #1193
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Quote Originally Posted by Novabomb View Post
    Are the gate controls on the wall, or behind the wall?
    Yeah, this is important. Can we take a nearby tower top then move along the top of the wall to the gatehouse to take it? If not what is the layout? Would we have to control ground level to open the gate?

    The citadel itself stands approximately 600 feet tall and 200 feet wide; the guardtowers are 40 feet tall each.
    Are the towers part of the citadel or is the citadel a separate structure behind the wall? Sorry to be a pain.

    Note that typically emplaced catapults do not rotate so that they can target the inside of the fortress.
    Good point, at least something to check on once up there.
    Spoiler: Games
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    Keston Tornok for GF's AoW
    Loradralsornux for GF's Savage Tide
    Suga for Kish's The Sunless Citadel
    Cendrik for J-H's Servants of the Thrallherd
    Semult for Kish's Wrath of the Righteous
    Faazeran for kinem's Drow Against Midnight

    Extended Signature - More detailed game/character notes

  24. - Top - End - #1194
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    The citadel is separate from the towers. The gatehouse is a part of the citadel, at the very front, but likewise separate from the towers, and inside. You would likely need to go in through the front courtyard.
    Spoiler
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  25. - Top - End - #1195
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Can you draw a small map? I am now more confused. Is the term gatehouse being used to mean something other than the control for the wall gate?

    | CCCCC
    | CCCCC
    | CCCCC
    | GATEHOUSE
    |
    |
    T------T-------T---GATE---T-------T------T


    If this is close to accurate, how much distance is there between the Gatehouse and the Gate? Is there only one gate? (Spaces do not render well, pretend the Cs are aligned vertically with the gate)
    Last edited by Novabomb; 2020-09-25 at 08:53 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #1196
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Sorry about the confusion. The term gatehouse is not being used to mean something other than the control for the main gate; you'll need to get inside the citadel if you want to use the mechanism that opens the gate, if the demons haven't changed anything since taking over.

    Attempt at a diagram which may or may not come through:


    X................................................. .................................................. .........X


    .................................................. .........CCCCCCC
    .................................................. .........CCCCCCC
    .................................................. .........CCCMCCC
    .................................................. .........CCCGCCC


    X................................................. .................................................. .........X

    Xs are towers, C is the citadel, G is the gate, M is the mechanism that operates the gate. The dots are necessary for the formatting and symbolize nothing more than "if these weren't here, it'd be saying the towers were paired super close together and everything was on the west side."

    And sorry about the delay, yet again. I needed to take a Covid-19 test. (It was negative; now I just need to get my workplace to accept my results.)
    Last edited by Kish; 2020-10-06 at 01:32 AM.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  27. - Top - End - #1197
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    FYI, you can use the code command to remove the auto formatting. BB codes are here.
    Code:
    test     test
    
    test
                      Test
    Code:
    X................................................. .................................................. .........X
    
    
                                                                   CCCCCCC
                                                                   CCCCCCC
                                                                   CCCMCCC
                                                                   CCCGCCC
    
    
    X................................................. .................................................. .........X

    I'm still failing my INT check (sorry!). That's a top down view showing the front and back walls with the citadel in the middle? I remember it was said the citadel was 600' across.

    Hope you feel better soon!
    Last edited by Cavir; 2020-10-06 at 05:22 AM.
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    Keston Tornok for GF's AoW
    Loradralsornux for GF's Savage Tide
    Suga for Kish's The Sunless Citadel
    Cendrik for J-H's Servants of the Thrallherd
    Semult for Kish's Wrath of the Righteous
    Faazeran for kinem's Drow Against Midnight

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  28. - Top - End - #1198
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    RolandDeschain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    sorry to hear of your illness Kish

    is this an accurate representation


  29. - Top - End - #1199
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Yes, it is.
    Spoiler
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  30. - Top - End - #1200
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    RolandDeschain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous OOC [3.5, Group B]

    Thanks for the quick response...I hope you got situation worked out with your employer.

    Is there a gate in the outer wall?

    Is the outer wall as tall as the watchtowers?

    Any details you could share about the approach to the outer walls would be great.

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