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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Pact Boon: Eldritch slinger
    As an action you can summon 2 light one handed ranged weapons with a range of 30/80, dealing 1d6 piercing damage. These weapons use your charisma modifier for your attack and damage rolls. If they are more than 30ft from you they disappear after 1 minute or if dismissed as a bonus action. These weapons do not disappear while in your possession.
    You are always proficient with your Eldritch Slingers.
    When casting Eldritch Blast through your Eldritch Slingers the damage becomes that which your patron represents. You may choose to deal piercing, force or that equal to your patron with Eldritch Blast.
    Fey: Acid Fiend: Fire Old One: Psychic
    The damage type of your Eldritch Slingers also becomes piercing, or that of your patron.

    During a long rest you may, over the course of an hour, bind a light one handed ranged weapon to yourself making it your Eldritch Slinger. If the weapon has any magical effects it is applied to your Eldritch Slingers attack and damage rolls where applicable. You maybe two weapons bonded at a time.

    These weapons can be used as an arcane focus. (Spells can be "shot" out of Eldritch Slinger for flavor only, no mechanical changes would be made to the spells)

    Invocations (All of the invocations below require the Eldritch Slinger)

    Quick shot(requires level 5): When you cast a cantrip you can make an attack with one of your Eldritch Slingers as a bonus action.

    Rapid Fire(requires level 12): Once per short or long rest you can enhance your Eldritch Slingers. When you cast Eldritch Blast, you may do so again as a bonus action. The range is reduced to that of your Eldritch Slingers but all invocations (except eldritch spear) are applied.


    Art by TheDurrrrian on deviant art
    Last edited by Krumpits; 2016-05-23 at 12:42 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Quote Originally Posted by Krumpits View Post
    Eldritch ammo(requires level 12): When making attacks with your Eldritch Slinger they now act as if casting the Eldritch Blast cantrip, but retains your Eldritch slingers range.
    fine up to here, but this is flat broken, gimped range or no.
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    I look at the lich and smirk a bit, as I bring myself back to my feet

    "What are you smiling about?" it says

    "hehe, it looks like you've made... a grave mistake :D"

    the bard, actively bleeding out on the ground *ba-dum-tss*

    "Ha! Nice try. Telling a bad joke to try to make your opponent drop their guard. Oldest trick in the book. Trust me, I was there."

    *barbarian falling, sword in hands, from the top of the castle wall directly above the lich*


  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxhound438 View Post
    fine up to here, but this is flat broken, gimped range or no.
    Might I ask how? Its a second eldritch blast per turn with a 1/4 of its range and using your bonus action, and spending two invocations to do so at level 12. Doing 80 damage (120 with a charisma of 20 and another spent invocation) if all attacks hit for max damage.

    And if it is flat out broken, then how would you balance it?
    Last edited by Krumpits; 2016-05-22 at 03:31 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Might I ask how? Its a second eldritch blast per turn with a 1/4 of its range and using your bonus action, and spending two invocations to do so at level 12. Doing 120 damage with a charisma of 20 if all attacks hit for max damage.
    If you are able to perform eldritch blast twice every round, then this is essentially using the Fighter's Action Surge ability every round. The limited range is not enough to make up for this.

    Erm... I'm not sure it can be balanced. It is basically an extra turn each round.

    These weapons can be used as an arcane focus, and spells can be “shot” out of them.
    I think that you should define what this means. Does the range of the spell change? Does the 'spell' hit like a normal ranged weapon attack? If so, does the creature get another saving throw against, say, charm person? Does the attack do normal damage as well? What if I sling a spell that has a target of 'self' (some spells are not supposed to be shared)? Has multiple targets? Has an area effect?

    Quick shot(requires level 5): When you cast a cantrip you can make an attack with one of your Eldritch Slingers as a bonus action.
    Say you cast Eldritch Blast, then you use your slinger to 'sling' a 4th level spell at the target. You basically perform a full-round damage attack (since EB scales with level), then get to cast a spell (?). This is more powerful than the 18th level Eldritch Knight feature.

    ---

    I think that the main concern here is that Eldritch Blast scales with level. At 11th level, a basic full-round attack for various classes is:
    -Warlock: Eldritch Blast (3 rays)
    -Fighter: 3 Attacks
    -Paladin: 2 Attacks + Improved Divine Smite (+1d8 on each attack)
    -Rogue: 1 Attack + Possibility of Sneak Attack (6d6)

    They are all balanced around each other. Which means that if you get to do EB and another thing on your turn, you are breaking out of the normal paradigm greatly.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Quote Originally Posted by zeek0 View Post
    If you are able to perform eldritch blast twice every round, then this is essentially using the Fighter's Action Surge ability every round. The limited range is not enough to make up for this.

    Erm... I'm not sure it can be balanced. It is basically an extra turn each round.


    I think that you should define what this means. Does the range of the spell change? Does the 'spell' hit like a normal ranged weapon attack? If so, does the creature get another saving throw against, say, charm person? Does the attack do normal damage as well? What if I sling a spell that has a target of 'self' (some spells are not supposed to be shared)? Has multiple targets? Has an area effect?



    Say you cast Eldritch Blast, then you use your slinger to 'sling' a 4th level spell at the target. You basically perform a full-round damage attack (since EB scales with level), then get to cast a spell (?). This is more powerful than the 18th level Eldritch Knight feature.

    ---

    I think that the main concern here is that Eldritch Blast scales with level. At 11th level, a basic full-round attack for various classes is:
    -Warlock: Eldritch Blast (3 rays)
    -Fighter: 3 Attacks
    -Paladin: 2 Attacks + Improved Divine Smite (+1d8 on each attack)
    -Rogue: 1 Attack + Possibility of Sneak Attack (6d6)

    They are all balanced around each other. Which means that if you get to do EB and another thing on your turn, you are breaking out of the normal paradigm greatly.
    Sorry I guess it didnt copy over the "shooting" spells out had an annotation of it only being for flavor.

    Also where are you getting that you can cast eldritch blast AND a 4th level spell in the same round? It says after you use a CANTRIP you can make an ATTACK with an Eldritch Slinger as a bonus action. Meaning you get just a normal ranged attack as a bonus action. It says nothing about being able to cast another spell.

    Also yes it is giving you another cast of Eldritch Blast, which I attempted to balance out by requiring a few features and cutting its range down heavily putting you closer in combat to get optimal damage.

    I toyed around with giving the Eldritch slingers only half the beams. but then realised that would just be a normal Eldritch blast with a bunch of handicaps for no reason. I could say attacks with Eldritch Slingers only gain benefit from one Eldritch Blast beam, so that it would be just an extra Eldritch Blast beam, but then the whole pact boon becomes rather boring for an extra 1d10+5 potential damage.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Balancing thought. What if it reduced the damage of Eldritch blast to a d6? or possibly even a d4?

    Making the max damage with all the proper invocations go from 120 a round to 88(72) a round with a 20 charisma.

    This would make it just above or just below a rogues standard round with sneak attack and two short swords, but you have to make 8 attacks, they only have to make 2.

    Or I could say that Eldritch Slingers cannot gain the benefit of Agonizing blast, effectively removing 40 guaranteed damage. Its max damage is capped at 80, and its minimum damage is now much lower.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Sorry I guess it didnt copy over the "shooting" spells out had an annotation of it only being for flavor.
    Ah, alright.

    Also where are you getting that you can cast eldritch blast AND a 4th level spell in the same round? It says after you use a CANTRIP you can make an ATTACK with an Eldritch Slinger as a bonus action. Meaning you get just a normal ranged attack as a bonus action. It says nothing about being able to cast another spell.
    This was when I thought that you could shoot a spell out of your weapon as an attack action.

    Balancing thought. What if it reduced the damage of Eldritch blast to a d6? or possibly even a d4?
    It all just seems so gummy that way. Allowing an additional attack, changing the damage on the cantrip.

    But lets get down to the basics: this invocation increases the damage of your basic attack. You can do that however you like, as long as you keep it somewhat in line with other classes.


    But to be earnest, I think the invocations need something more. They increase the damage you do in a turn. It isn't interesting, thoughtful, or odd. I want... something new. I want a theme, or a cool trick.

    Is there an interesting way that I can do more damage? Something that gives the way I do damage more choices, or changes, or options? (Look to the Hunter Archetype for an instance of this - it gives you more damage, but in ways that have contingencies, options, and style).

    Cheers. I'll be interested to see what you imagine.
    Last edited by zeek0; 2016-05-22 at 10:01 AM. Reason: removed rudness

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    The problem with the wording of Eldritch Ammo is that what are its limitations as being considered the Eldritch Blast cantrip?
    1. Does this mean it that any invocation that applies to Eldritch Blast applies to this(2xcharisma bonus to damage..etc)?
    2. Does this mean it ups the die to a d10?
    3. Does this it has the same amount of attacks?
    4. Does this mean if you have Quick Shot that you are effectively casting a better Eldritch Blast twice in a round all the time?
    Ultimately the questions pile up way too quickly and should be changed immediately.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2016-05-22 at 09:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Quote Originally Posted by Krumpits View Post
    Pact Boon: Eldritch slinger
    As an action you can summon 2 light one handed ranged weapons with a range of 30/80, dealing 1d6 piercing damage. These weapons use your charisma modifier for your attack and damage rolls. If they are more than 30ft from you they disappear after 1 minute or if dismissed as a bonus action. These weapons do not disappear while in your possession.
    You are always proficient with your Eldritch Slingers.

    These weapons can be used as an arcane focus. (Spells can be "shot" out of Eldritch Slinger for flavor only, no mechanical changes would be made to the spells)
    As is this seems almost pointless when you first get them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krumpits View Post
    Quick shot(requires level 5): When you cast a cantrip you can make an attack with one of your Eldritch Slingers as a bonus action.
    Your pact and one invocation gives you 1d6+cha damaging attacks, twice a combat encounter. At 5th level this is 1d6+4 (7.5) twice or 15 damage (ignoring hit chance).
    This is where it becomes worthwhile maybe even too good. The issue I have is that you have to play through several levels with a poor pact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krumpits View Post
    Eldritch ammo(requires level 12): When making attacks with your Eldritch Slinger they now act as if casting the Eldritch Blast cantrip, but retains your Eldritch slingers range.
    Is this to say the damage increases to 1d10, but what about invocations? do you need agonizing blast to get charisma to damage for example?

    perhaps try something like this;

    Pact Boon: Eldritch slinger
    As a bonus action you can summon a shard of pure eldritch power. This hovers around you until you attack with it, a minute passes, you dismiss it as a bonus action or you summon a new one at which point your oldest shard disappears.

    The shard has a range of 30 feet and requires no action to attack with. To attack make a ranged spell attack, on a hit the shard deals damage equal to your charisma modifier.

    You are considered to have an arcane focus while this shard hovers around you.


    Invocations (All of the invocations below require the Eldritch Slinger)

    Powerful shot(requires level 5): Your shard damage increases by an amount equal to your charisma modifier.

    Eldritch synergy(requires level 12): Your shard gains some of the power of your eldritch blast.
    If you have Agonizing Blast your shard damage increases by an amount equal to your charisma modifier.
    If you have Eldritch Spear your shard range becomes 80 ft.
    If you have Repelling Blast you can push a creature hit by your shard up to 10 feet away from you in a straight line.

    I haven't thought about whether this is balanced, I just wanted to generate ideas.
    Last edited by Final Hyena; 2016-05-22 at 10:38 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    I appreciate all the feedback, even if most of it is my idea is stupid or op lol. For those of you wondering I was wanting to have a theme of an arcane gunslinger using the warlock base. Yes by a numbers point it is just more damage, but this is a game about your imagination, so I mean work with me a little lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    The problem with the wording of Eldritch Ammo is that what are its limitations as being considered the Eldritch Blast cantrip?
    1. Does this mean it that any invocation that applies to Eldritch Blast applies to this(2xcharisma bonus to damage..etc)?
    2. Does this mean it ups the die to a d10?
    3. Does this it has the same amount of attacks?
    4. Does this mean if you have Quick Shot that you are effectively casting a better Eldritch Blast twice in a round all the time?
    Ultimately the questions pile up way too quickly and should be changed immediately.
    This was the intended mechanic. It would be shooting EB at a gimped range. Which I knew would be broken but wasn't sure how to balance it so I left it as is and waited for feedback on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeek0 View Post
    Is there an interesting way that I can do more damage? Something that gives the way I do damage more choices, or changes, or options? (Look to the Hunter Archetype for an instance of this - it gives you more damage, but in ways that have contingencies, options, and style).

    Cheers. I'll be interested to see what you imagine.
    At least for me, most of the pact boons are rather boring. Pact of blade for instance all it does is lower your damage and put you in danger for marginal health gain. Pact of the tome just serves to try to make you more useful by making you a wizard. And pact of the chain the cheese master with familiars. This one while numbers wise isn't interesting, provided at least a new LOOK for warlocks that I was going for. But you are right it isn't terribly interesting at its core because it is just straight damage.

    I know it is kind of messy to reduce the damage of it, but making it a d4, while only adding 12 to the max damage, increases its consistent damage by a lot more, but making 8 attack rolls and only rolling 1d4 per attack does feel kind of low. Cutting it off from agonizing blast does give a 20 damage boost overall which isn't too much considering what you're using to get it. Reducing it down to d6s puts it at 88 max damage and makes probably the most sense since its reducing it to the weapons damage, but its giving a 28 damage increase and puts it just above rogues max sneak attack damage. Granted you have to make 8 attacks and chances of you hitting every one of them is lower than a rogue hitting 2 attacks but I'm not sure if that would balance itself out.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Hyena View Post

    Pact Boon: Eldritch slinger
    As a bonus action you can summon a shard of pure eldritch power. This hovers around you until you attack with it, a minute passes, you dismiss it as a bonus action or you summon a new one at which point your oldest shard disappears.

    The shard has a range of 30 feet and requires no action to attack with. To attack make a ranged spell attack, on a hit the shard deals damage equal to your charisma modifier.

    You are considered to have an arcane focus while this shard hovers around you.


    Invocations (All of the invocations below require the Eldritch Slinger)

    Powerful shot(requires level 5): Your shard damage increases by an amount equal to your charisma modifier.

    Eldritch synergy(requires level 12): Your shard gains some of the power of your eldritch blast.
    If you have Agonizing Blast your shard damage increases by an amount equal to your charisma modifier.
    If you have Eldritch Spear your shard range becomes 80 ft.
    If you have Repelling Blast you can push a creature hit by your shard up to 10 feet away from you in a straight line.

    I haven't thought about whether this is balanced, I just wanted to generate ideas.

    Thank you for the suggestion, but it kills the theme that I was going for, of an eldritch gunslinger essentially.
    The pact boon itself is meant to be a resource sink, because its giving you a second casting of the strongest cantrip in the game, every turn. So i cut its range to a 1/4 of what it was and made it cost 2 invocations and your bonus, which clearly wasn't enough, but I figured it wouldn't be.
    Last edited by Krumpits; 2016-05-22 at 01:43 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    The warlock is already an eldritch gunslinger, one that is hardly in need of more power. Giving it an everlasting supply of double eldritch blasting should incur a very heavy cost on the user. My suggestion was to try and follow on the general theme (more eldritch blasting) without being broken.

    What you're trying to achieve is to give warlock what would otherwise require several level dips into fighter or sorcerer, except on a permanent basis.

    An alternative suggestion would be a pact that enables you to cast a spell as a bonus instead of an action, but at a heavy cost. Maybe it drains your HP or gives exhaustion.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Quote Originally Posted by Krumpits View Post
    The pact boon itself is meant to be a resource sink, because its giving you a second casting of the strongest cantrip in the game, every turn. So i cut its range to a 1/4 of what it was and made it cost 2 invocations and your bonus, which clearly wasn't enough, but I figured it wouldn't be.
    Than why did you make it in the first place? A pact boon and invocations is suppose to give you the consistent basis of your character's strategy. This just takes Eldritch Blast over the top dealing 1d10+10 damage 8 times all the time.
    Here is what I would do
    1. Your boon needs to represent something give to you your current name invokes the name of the Gunslinger which refers back to what you are. So, just make it a gun or funky hand device designed in the theme of your patron.
    2. The item in question allows you to cast Eldritch Blast except you can choose between force damage or a damage type that is thematic with your patron(Fiend=Fire,..etc). It also adds 2 to the attack roll made with the casting. This frees up a cantrip and makes the blast more weapon like.
    3. You can have invocations that reflect some abilities from feats like one could allow you to bypass half and three-quarters cover. Another could be like your Quick shot except that it must attack a different target. So-on, so forth.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    Than why did you make it in the first place? A pact boon and invocations is suppose to give you the consistent basis of your character's strategy. This just takes Eldritch Blast over the top dealing 1d10+10 damage 8 times all the time.
    Here is what I would do
    1. Your boon needs to represent something give to you your current name invokes the name of the Gunslinger which refers back to what you are. So, just make it a gun or funky hand device designed in the theme of your patron.
    2. The item in question allows you to cast Eldritch Blast except you can choose between force damage or a damage type that is thematic with your patron(Fiend=Fire,..etc). It also adds 2 to the attack roll made with the casting. This frees up a cantrip and makes the blast more weapon like.
    3. You can have invocations that reflect some abilities from feats like one could allow you to bypass half and three-quarters cover. Another could be like your Quick shot except that it must attack a different target. So-on, so forth.
    Where are you getting 1d10+10? With the agonizing blast invocation it is 1d10+5, without its just 1d10.
    I like the idea of changing the damage type though.
    And I think its pretty clear why I made it. I wanted a dual wielding warlock gunslinger, and needed help balancing it...?

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Hyena View Post
    The warlock is already an eldritch gunslinger, one that is hardly in need of more power. Giving it an everlasting supply of double eldritch blasting should incur a very heavy cost on the user. My suggestion was to try and follow on the general theme (more eldritch blasting) without being broken.

    What you're trying to achieve is to give warlock what would otherwise require several level dips into fighter or sorcerer, except on a permanent basis.

    An alternative suggestion would be a pact that enables you to cast a spell as a bonus instead of an action, but at a heavy cost. Maybe it drains your HP or gives exhaustion.
    I was trying to discourage the typical warlock of standing far away or flying and just shooting eldritch blast. I wanted them to be in closer to combat while blasting away.

    I could just change it to your edlritch slingers now change your eldritch blast to be 1d10+dex but its range is limited to the eldritch slingers range. giving you +5 with max dex more to each of your eldritch blasts. most warlocks already have a decent dex, and this makes the pact boon a little better early. Then I can just cut the level 12 eldritch ammo, and make it something more to the line of you can choose what damage type your edlritch blast does based on your patron. So fiend does fire old one does psychic based on another suggestion.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    I think that is something built into and allowed within the system. Whether it be warlock or any other caster. Might I suggest employing enemies who flank and utilize ranged weaponry, also enclosed areas to restrict movement. Otherwise if your campaign doesn't suit it you could remove the fly spell.

    Edit; I think the biggest issue with these new options is they aren't entirely clear as to how they work.
    Last edited by Final Hyena; 2016-05-22 at 03:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    I have edited the invocation rather heavily. I'm not sure this is even worth its own Boon at this point though. I might just scrap the idea all together.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Quote Originally Posted by Krumpits View Post
    Where are you getting 1d10+10? With the agonizing blast invocation it is 1d10+5, without its just 1d10.
    I like the idea of changing the damage type though.
    And I think its pretty clear why I made it. I wanted a dual wielding warlock gunslinger, and needed help balancing it...?
    1. Your Pact Boon gives weapons that deal 1d6+cha. modifier damage. Agonizing Blast adds charisma to damage to Eldritch Blast. Eldritch Ammo allows you to treat your pact guns as if you were casting Eldritch Blast. Since the original said nothing of Eldritch Blast overriding the statistics it is only reasonable to say charisma stacks twice.
    2. It is because the cantrip itself plus a couple invocations are already quite good. Ultimately this is why I suggested to use it as a base. Alternatively Modern Magic gave a seperate invocation under the Pact of the Blade and you could just use that with Quick Shot. Though Eldritch Ammo now could use a boost now as it just adds one damage type. Hence why I tied with the boon itself.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. Your Pact Boon gives weapons that deal 1d6+cha. modifier damage. Agonizing Blast adds charisma to damage to Eldritch Blast. Eldritch Ammo allows you to treat your pact guns as if you were casting Eldritch Blast. Since the original said nothing of Eldritch Blast overriding the statistics it is only reasonable to say charisma stacks twice.
    2. It is because the cantrip itself plus a couple invocations are already quite good. Ultimately this is why I suggested to use it as a base. Alternatively Modern Magic gave a seperate invocation under the Pact of the Blade and you could just use that with Quick Shot. Though Eldritch Ammo now could use a boost now as it just adds one damage type. Hence why I tied with the boon itself.
    Okay I think its as balanced as I can make it with in keeping the theme. Now it is basically a very specific action surge. I'm not sure if its worth being a pact boon, and if it's not I'll just scrap it, but was at least worth a try!

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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Considering it is a 12th level invocation I think you can just double the amount of attacks since that is what Action Surge would do anyways. Alternatively you could look at the Hunter's Volley option for something a little more consistent and different. This way you would be upping the DPR but it doesn't step on others too much because of the spread.

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    Default Re: Eldritch Slinger Warlock Pact Boon and Invocations

    Quote Originally Posted by Krumpits View Post
    Balancing thought. What if it reduced the damage of Eldritch blast to a d6? or possibly even a d4?

    Making the max damage with all the proper invocations go from 120 a round to 88(72) a round with a 20 charisma.

    This would make it just above or just below a rogues standard round with sneak attack and two short swords, but you have to make 8 attacks, they only have to make 2.

    Or I could say that Eldritch Slingers cannot gain the benefit of Agonizing blast, effectively removing 40 guaranteed damage. Its max damage is capped at 80, and its minimum damage is now much lower.
    Sneak attack only works once a turn in 5e.
    Quote Originally Posted by RodrigoAlves
    Once a player almost fell into a trap full of spikes. He asked me "how much damage would a spike do?"
    I said "Instant death"
    Then, he grabbed a spike and used it as a weapon for the rest of the adventure.

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