How to deal with annoying character IC?

[Pinjata]

Now, let me make one thing clear at the start: I am not interested in OOC character solutions, I do not want to hear about OOC solutions, i want no OOC solutions. Thanks.

Long story short, I play LG paladin (the nonretarded type) and while my pally is getting along great with most of the party, party caster is (IC) acting like a douchebag. Previous session she messed up a diplomatic encounter our bard engaged in and had (IC) thrown a ball bearing at bards face. Player who plays bard is kind of a wuss (OOC) and has real problem reacting to agression IC and OOC. I, however do not, but ... holy heck - I'm playing a paladin. An most interesting problem.

The last session our group got "invited" to some undead evil lord's castle via a horse carriage with no driver. While my character and our cleric were thinking of demolishing the thing, annoying caster got all pissy regarding other characters (me and cleric) not "playing along" (all strictly IC). After (IC) i told the character to sod off, she threw another ball bearing at the face of my character. That was an interesting crossroad since i am a pally. If common NG or TN fighter I'd just smack the caster hard.

So this is where we are currently. We went to the fortress, team pally+cleric is sneaking in the castle, being all stealthy, while team caster+bard walked right to the bbeg and their faith is currently unknown.

How should my character deal with annoying little ballbearing-throwing turd?

thanks

[Mystral]

You are giving off a pretty aggressive vibe, here.

[Takewo]

When this sort of issue comes up, I always like asking myself, "how would I deal with it if it were a NPC?"

If that were a NPC, it would probably be considered a threat at worst and neutralised (kill, prison, whatever suits the situation best) or a nuisance at best and abandoned in the first populated area that the party reached.

[Jornophelanthas]

Being a lawful good paladin does not mean you have to put up with pranks, insuts or violence, even if the perpetrator is an ally. Paladins are not immune to getting angry at other people. You should probably (try to) show self-restraint, but this does not mean tolerating bullying (either towards yourself or others). Paladins are imposing warriors in their own right. Lawful good does not mean "pushover"; it means "respect order and show moral fiber".

Also, as a champion for good, a paladin is supposed to be able to defend his/her own dignity and that of others. One way to play a paladin in an unobnoxious way is to try to be an example for the other player characters (without the expectation that they may live up to it). Why didn't you protest (IC) how the caster treated the bard - especially if the bard is a "wuss", i.e. someone who cannot stand up for themselves and thus could use a champion to do it for them?

As for splitting the party, that's never good. There has to be OOC agreement between the players that this should be avoided, and the players should all be okay with it (again, OOC) if the party splits up in a dungeon.

Also, I don't understand why the caster is throwing machine parts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_bearing) at other people. Is that some cultural context I'm missing?

[PrincessCupcake]

All of the following is strictly in-character advice, and should definitely not be an OOC response to any situation. It *should* probably come with an OOC warning of "hey, you're character's being a jerk, and I am going to have my character react realistically.":

Say it with me.
Paladin does not equal doormat.
Lawful Good does not equal doormat.

If he's throwing ball bearings at people, you have every right to tell him off. You have every right to punch him if he flings a ball bearing at your face. There should be a warning of "if you do that again, I am going to hit you" but there is absolutely nothing in a paladin's code that stops them from retaliating to malicious mischief through non-lethal means.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Come on man, they're just ball bearings. Treat her like how Roy treats Elan.

[WrittenInBlood]

Totally IC solution? Next time he throws a ball bearing at anyone, pick it up. Approach him. Stuff the ball up his nose. Smile, as if it was a good joke, and ask: "Do you have any more of them?"

But first OOC, tell your GM what you're up to, and you're not going to escalate it to full PvP, in case of following back-fireballing.

[RazorChain]

Throwing ball bearings is escalating to violence. Beat him to pulp,

[hymer]

team caster+bard walked right to the bbeg and their faith is currently unknown.

Sounds like you're about to miss out on this whole problem to me.

[BWR]

You know your character better than we do.

If this were the sort of paladin like Sir Geffen (the awesome iconic character from The Complete Paladin's Handbook - which really should be required reading before discussing paladins in D&D), he would ignore the incident then part ways to find more civilized and agreeable company. Maybe, possibly, express some form of mild reproof as one or the other departs from the group. He is better than to get involved in petty tit for tat and has no need to 'win' in a pissing match. Find better people who are worthy of your respect and can act like adults rather than spoiled brats.

One of the paladins in my group would probably give the offender a good talking to. Try the diplomatic solution first - stop being a jerk, you're ruining things for everyone, we all want to work together for the greater good, etc. If that doesn't work, tell her to shape up or face the consequences. If the caster still refuses and seems likely to ruin things for everyone else, she would probably subdue the caster for everyone's good. If the caster insists on being a jerk after this, suggest throwing her out of the party for not just being useless but being an impolite, disruptive prick.
The other paladin would probably smack her in the face and tell her to show proper respect to her teammates. Then if the behavior persists, probably challenge to a non-lethal duel or something, then advocate expulsion for being an impolite, useless person of no good to anyone but herself.
One of mine would probably just put up with the boorish behavior until it got her in trouble, help her out and point out that not acting like a jerk would have avoided the problems altogether. Then toss her out if she hadn't learned her lesson.
Another would just put up with it because he would lead by example and not moralize, and try to ignore the minor offenses of immature brats. He has more important things to think about, like how to fight evil and champion justice.

[Mastikator]

Come on man, they're just ball bearings. Treat her like how Roy treats Elan.

Constantly demean and then when opportunity arrives leave for dead?

@OP confront the annoying character head on the next time she does something stupid

[Keltest]

As a paladin you are, presumably, a fairly imposing and large specimen of your species, no? The next time you see this character and you aren't in an immediate combat situation, pull them aside for a moment, look them in the eye, and tell them, forcefully but calmly and with no malice, that this behavior is unacceptable and that you do not want to catch them doing it again, to anybody. The key here is that you are not angry, only extremely disappointed.

[Jaelommiss]

I'd give the character a single, firm warning.

"I am the holy champion of [deity/deities]. Any attack on me is an attack on [him/her/them]. You will not do that again."

[Anonymouswizard]

Now, let me make one thing clear at the start: I am not interested in OOC character solutions, I do not want to hear about OOC solutions, i want no OOC solutions. Thanks.

First off, a question, have you talked to the player? If you're saying this I assume you have already, but you should try to solve it OOC because it's less likely to cause problems. I assume the caster's player gave you the go-ahead to try and solve it IC?

Now, Paladins do not have to be nice. I mean my paladin, Jia Mei, was a soldier for a good 10 years (and left the army on good terms, it was peaceful and she wanted to travel and fight), and so doesn't take things like this from anyone. If you act properly, even if not to military discipline, she's willing to overlook you goofing off when 'off-duty' or getting drunk in the tavern and increasing the local population, but flicking ball bearings at people after ruining their social encounters or refusing to discuss the tactical merits of the approach they favour will begin with a warning, followed by a punch to the face on repeat attempts. What do I care if I broke your nose? I have healing spells! I'm sorry, they do not work on feelings.

[goto124]

Take a real ball bearing to the next session, then throw it at the bard's player OOCly.

[Geddy2112]

Ditch em. If they want to randomly interject and ruin perfectly good negotiations, leave em. If they wanna throw things at people, they can go play somewhere else. You are not there to babysit them, so they can shape up or ship out.

I am not sure, but I could empathize about the caster not wanting you to destroy the carriage. I could see plenty of logical reasons, like "it might piss off the BBEG" or even the more classic selfish wizard "no wait, I am curious how a horse with no carriage is moving. We could learn a lot here." So if you and the cleric said "this thing must be destroyed no ifs ands or buts" and simply denounced the caster's (potentially) logical arguments, then you were probably in the wrong. Equally possible, they said nothing and once you said they just decided to throw a tantrum for no reason, well in that case, leave em.

Also, beating the tar out of them is an option. Lawful good does not mean lawful nice. Leave the paladin and alignment thing out of it, some prick is ruining everything by throwing tantrums and small metal balls at the party. From the LG paladin to the TN druid to the LE wizard to the CE barbarian, nobody wants to travel with a jerk like that. Leave em, and if they throw more bearings, knock em out, and then leave em.

[goto124]

What was the answer to the question "what did you do that for?!"

1) OOCly?
2) ICly?

[Friv]

Take a real ball bearing to the next session, then throw it at the bard's player OOCly.

Do you do that when the caster throws a ball bearing at the bard IC, or just whenever you feel like?

[Anonymouswizard]

Do you do that when the caster throws a ball bearing at the bard IC, or just whenever you feel like?

It doesn't matter, the ball bearing is an OOC solution, and we're supposed to be providing IC ones

[Red Fel]

I'm actually going to agree with the IC violence thing. Here's why.

First, as others have noted, LG doesn't mean nice, Paladin doesn't mean nice. It is possible to be violent without being murderous or Evil, and it is frequently justified in D&D.

Second, flicking ball bearings ICly is the equivalent of "I'm not touching you" when it comes to PvP. That's not to say every harmful or offensive contact in character constitutes an invitation to PvP, provided the intent behind it is understood and not malicious. I played a gritty and misanthropic lycanthrope in a campaign once, and we had a Cleric of Eilistraee in the party. Whenever they had an argument - never a malicious one, just vitriolic best buddies style - she would end it by slapping him with Moonbeam, turning him into an angry, mute kitty. It was funny, it was a running gag, we had a good time with it.

But if you're not having a good time with it - if it's not understood to be all in good fun - then it's an offensive action that's tantamount to PvP. Now, I know you said not to raise OOC, but the fact is that talking about it OOC would help you understand if the character thinks he's being funny or not. If he does, then it's important to realize that there is no malice in the character's actions. If not, however, he's basically engaging in PvP. It's up to you how much you want to escalate, but some physical response would be appropriate.

Or, you know, strip him, tie him up, and leave him on the side of the road. PCs aren't obligated to carry deadweight PCs around, or even useful-but-offensive PCs, just because they have a badge that says "Player Character." You can ditch him if you honestly don't want to wound him.

Me? I'd go for the face-punch.

Or just take his bag of ball bearings. "You can have these back when you learn to be responsible."

[Slipperychicken]

It sounds like you're really mad about this. It's obviously an OOC thing manifesting in-game.


But hey, if you want to perpetuate a cycle of hurt feelings and passive aggressive game-disruption, you might as well just turn all his characters into hamburger meat until the game crashes and burns. Once the game's been destroyed by the collective antics of the players, you can hopefully find a better gaming group that doesn't make you so angry.

[goto124]

you might as well just turn all his characters into hamburger meat until the game crashes and burns.

But will the hamburger taste like Wendy's, or McDonald's?

[Âmesang]

He's a paladin. The burgers will taste like White Castle.

Also for every ball bearing thrown at you, retaliate with an orc shotput.

[Typewriter]

Why are you guys in a party together? This is an IC question. Have you been allies for a long time? If so, then I'd recommend attempting to talk it over IC and resolve the conflict. If it's more of a convenience thing, however, then I'd say maybe you guys should separate from one another. If you can't separate (maybe this adventure is important to both of you for various reasons) then provide a warning that, if ignored, results in the matter getting resolved. You don't have to kill him or anything - beat him down and take his equipment - spell pouch, spell book, ball bearings, etc - and destroy them. If he responds to your non-lethal action with the desire to kill, kill him first.

[SirBellias]

I think I'll have to +1 the shoving it up his nose idea, if he's doing it to be funny. It will probably either stop or escalate from there, but it will go SOMEWHERE.

If he's just being malicious, and not joking around, then taking his stuff and leaving him by the side of the road until another character gets rolled up sounds applicable to me.

[Honest Tiefling]

Come on man, they're just ball bearings. Treat her like how Roy treats Elan.

*Paladin leans over to the cleric to speak in a whisper* "Are you certain that there is nothing that can be done for her condition? It's truly heartwrenching to see someone like that."

And then refuse to allow her into negotiations on the basis that she's an idiot and you're not stupid. Dealing with nobility can often lead to head choppings, so she's dug her own grave on that one.

I have to disagree with the violence, is murdering people really how you people react to this sort of thing in real life?

[Takewo]

I have to disagree with the violence, is murdering people really how you people react to this sort of thing in real life?

Nope, but I don't destroy entire villages or slaughter the population of a dungeon simply because they've got loot either.

Also, D&D is remotely based on the European middle ages. At that time, violence was seen in a different light.

[BWR]

Nope, but I don't destroy entire villages or slaughter the population of a dungeon simply because they've got loot either.

Also, D&D is remotely based on the European middle ages. At that time, violence was seen in a different light.

Not that different.

[Slipperychicken]

Nope, but I don't destroy entire villages or slaughter the population of a dungeon simply because they've got loot either.

Also, D&D is remotely based on the European middle ages. At that time, violence was seen in a different light.

You say that as if wandering raiders weren't knocking over settlements for loot all the time back then. The terms "Robber Baron" and "Robber Knight" were invented to refer in part to feudal lords who resorted to banditry to get loot.

edit: Wait, I just realized I agree with you, yet somehow thought we disagreed. That's awkward.

[Vizzerdrix]

Honestly, I would interrupt her rest and keep her from getting her spells back. Put a layer of shapesand under her bedroll and turn it into caltrops for a second or two, or a lump right in the lower back.

You can also try putting her hand in warm water as she sleeps.

Send a letter to her teacher or place of training. Tell them the child needs to be reeducated or you will leave them in favor of the rest of the parties safety the next time the stuff hits the fan.