A problem with a player's behavior

[USS Sorceror]

This is mostly to vent but also to ask for advice addressing an OOC issue.

I have a new player in my group, a SO of one of my players. He seemed all right, I let him roll a character and join last week.

The problem is I've noticed him making some pretty racist (from my view) comments. In our group chat he made an "Asian people eat cats" joke, and at our session last week made a tentacle hentai related joke. Both times I or the group as a whole deflected him and we continued on. I'm unsure of what to do if this becomes a continuous problem. I feel I need to address it because I'm uncomfortable, but I don't wanna rock the boat with the other player.

[SirBellias]

If it continues, address it. Just tell them that their comments aren't welcome in your group, as they make you uncomfortable. Add that you'd be happy to keep having him there without them. I'm assuming it's your group, so you get to set the rules.

They may have got the idea already and figured it out, but I doubt it. While I'm of the mind that racist comments aren't welcome anywhere, you may have to remind them that they aren't conducive to spending time with people who don't share their opinions.

[Mr Beer]

"Hey dude, knock off the Asian jokes."

Solves the problem 100% of the time, either they stop or you boot them.

[kyoryu]

"Hey dude, knock off the Asian jokes."

Solves the problem 100% of the time, either they stop or you boot them.

Exactly. It's really no harder than this.

[BWR]

You could also try talking to the SO and having him/her tell the new player to stop.
Or make some off-hand comment that you don't find racist jokes of any stripe amusing.

[Anonymouswizard]

The problem is I've noticed him making some pretty racist (from my view) comments. In our group chat he made an "Asian people eat cats" joke, and at our session last week made a tentacle hentai related joke.

Okay, it's fairly obvious that the main problem here is that the two of you have different tolerances for racism. As someone who can deal with it (I've occasionally jokingly called myself a racist, although that's making fun of the fact that I'm attracted to Asians) I would probably get annoyed by the first joke* and politely ask him if he could refrain from such humour in the present company, but then again I'm British, we have to be more polite in proportion with how much we hate you. I suggest that you politely bring up the problem and ask him to stop the jokes, ideally in front of the group so a consensus can be reached. It's really the only way to solve the issue, if he has problems with you asking then it becomes time for the group to decide if they want to boot him.

* Well the second is close to a type of joke I hear or use a lot, so I could probably put up with it. Plus I have Chinese friends, they love their kitties!

[USS Sorceror]

"Hey dude, knock off the Asian jokes."

Solves the problem 100% of the time, either they stop or you boot them.

Most people in my experience respond with something along the lines of "It's just a joke, why do you care, you're not even [insert here], etc." Given my work and the energy needed to run a game every week, it leaves me with little energy to deal with people's reactions to being called out for bad behavior.

I'll probably have a blanket discussion/reminder for the group so it doesn't seem like I'm singling anyone out.

[Honest Tiefling]

Most people in my experience respond with something along the lines of "It's just a joke, why do you care, you're not even [insert here], etc." Given my work and the energy needed to run a game every week, it leaves me with little energy to deal with people's reactions to being called out for bad behavior.

These people are doing you a favor! They have indicated that they are jerks who don't understand the meaning of compromise, so that you don't waste time with them.

If you are having issues confronting them, I double up on asking the SO. She might know how to put it gently.

[Anonymouswizard]

These people are doing you a favor! They have indicated that they are jerks who don't understand the meaning of compromise, so that you don't waste time with them.

If you are having issues confronting them, I double up on asking the SO. She might know how to put it gently.

Yep, I mean, I'll occasionally insult my friends of different ethnicities, but I'm British so it just means that I like themdon't hate them as much as other people. However there's a difference between me telling an offensive joke to my half-Pakistani (who has a similar sense of humour) and telling one to one of my Chinese friends (who don't), so there's a tendency for me to increase how insulting the am the better I know you. Heck, I once managed to insult a friend by sarcastically saying she couldn't identify her own ethnicity. But that's very different to being offensive with people I don't know that well. I mean, just like I won't discuss my political views with a random person on the street, or bring up my sexual orientation in a group of new people (mainly because it includes the words 'fluid', 'complicated', and 'effectively'), I won't start being offensive to people who aren't there, even if I know everybody fairly well*. It's best that you cut out people who won't tone it down when asked, it's just rude.

* Anonymouswizard is strange and thinks that if you're going to joke about something you should do it to the person's face.

[kyoryu]

Most people in my experience respond with something along the lines of "It's just a joke, why do you care, you're not even [insert here], etc." Given my work and the energy needed to run a game every week, it leaves me with little energy to deal with people's reactions to being called out for bad behavior.

I'll probably have a blanket discussion/reminder for the group so it doesn't seem like I'm singling anyone out.

"Cool. Make a different joke."

[Geddy2112]

To give him the benefit of the doubt, he probably comes from a situation/social circle where he might see that kind of stuff as not only okay, but encouraged and hilarious. My table has some pretty off color banter, that kind of thing is par for the course.

But you are the DM. You get to choose what flies. If that kind of stuff bothers you, tell him to can it or leave. Actually, unless everyone is okay with that kind of thing then it is not okay. So again, he can shape up or ship out.

Most people in my experience respond with something along the lines of "It's just a joke, why do you care, you're not even [insert here], etc." Given my work and the energy needed to run a game every week, it leaves me with little energy to deal with people's reactions to being called out for bad behavior.

I'll probably have a blanket discussion/reminder for the group so it doesn't seem like I'm singling anyone out.

I don't care what their excuse is. If they can't follow the rules then they can leave. I for one have been in a group and been reprimanded for a joke I found funny, but others found offensive. So I shut my mouth and did not go there again around those people, and we are still friends. It is not rocket science.

[kyoryu]

To give him the benefit of the doubt, he probably comes from a situation/social circle where he might see that kind of stuff as not only okay, but encouraged and hilarious. My table has some pretty off color banter, that kind of thing is par for the course.

Probably. Doesn't mean you need to deal with it.

But you are the DM. You get to choose what flies. If that kind of stuff bothers you, tell him to can it or leave. Actually, unless everyone is okay with that kind of thing then it is not okay. So again, he can shape up or ship out.

Exactly.

I don't care what their excuse is. If they can't follow the rules then they can leave. I for one have been in a group and been reprimanded for a joke I found funny, but others found offensive. So I shut my mouth and did not go there again around those people, and we are still friends. It is not rocket science.

It doesn't even need to be a 'reprimand.' Just, "hey, knock out the asian jokes, k?" It only turns into A Discussion if he doesn't get the hint. Heck, the uncomfortable silence that follows is a hint for most social animals that their behavior isn't appreciated.

[Mr Beer]

Most people in my experience respond with something along the lines of "It's just a joke, why do you care, you're not even [insert here], etc." Given my work and the energy needed to run a game every week, it leaves me with little energy to deal with people's reactions to being called out for bad behavior.

I'll probably have a blanket discussion/reminder for the group so it doesn't seem like I'm singling anyone out.

If someone gets defensive because you ask them to stop making racist jokes, you don't need that person in your group.

You're building this up into a big deal, it doesn't need to be. You say to a normal person, "hey man, cut the Asian jokes", politely but firmly, they are embarrassed about their behaviour and stop. If instead they argue (and understand that they are arguing that it's OK for them to be a rude jerk), you simply say "I wasn't asking you, I'm letting you know to stop" and if they still argue, you give them the goodbye speech. That's it.

[Honest Tiefling]

Probably. Doesn't mean you need to deal with it.

Yeah, just because you are in a group of people who are okay with that, (I personally don't mind white jokes depending on the source, or people expressing confusion as to why I cover myself with white goop to go outside for 20 minutes), doesn't mean everyone is. Don't tell your Dead Baby jokes to the new parents, no matter how funny they are.

I would normally say that some off-color humor can be done on accident as people relax and try to make friends, but the examples given seem to be a bit much for a slip of the tongue or not reading people right.

[Themrys]

These people are doing you a favor! They have indicated that they are jerks who don't understand the meaning of compromise, so that you don't waste time with them.

Exactly. I find that as I get older, I don't have the patience to argue with that kind of person. Either he stops the racism, or he gets kicked out. Easy.

However, you may find that once you have declared obvious racism inacceptable, he tries to sneak in subtler racism. At least that's my experience with sexist people. The two are not one and the same, and there's plenty reasons why a sexist player would be more invested in making others bend to his will than a casually racist one.

Anyway. Look out for red flags. Could be he's really just ignorant, and there's no deeply rooted racist attitude.

[kyoryu]

I would normally say that some off-color humor can be done on accident as people relax and try to make friends, but the examples given seem to be a bit much for a slip of the tongue or not reading people right.

I dig off-color humor. But I'm also smart enough to know that you have to figure out your audience and when it is/isn't appropriate.

[goto124]

Most people in my experience respond with something along the lines of "It's just a joke, why do you care, you're not even [insert here], etc."

What's the proper rebuttal to such a response? Assuming it's not a game you can just kick the offender out of.

I've seen cases of misogynist jokes made in front of women, and yet when the women spoke up, the misogynist continued making the same jokes - doesn't help when he actually believes stuff such as "women are bad drivers" due to confirmation bias.

[USS Sorceror]

What's the proper rebuttal to such a response? Assuming it's not a game you can just kick the offender out of.

I've seen cases of misogynist jokes made in front of women, and yet when the women spoke up, the misogynist continued making the same jokes - doesn't help when he actually believes stuff such as "women are bad drivers" due to confirmation bias.

That's kind of the question I'm asking. As the DM, I could kick him out, but I don't wanna address it in a way that might cheese off both him and his girlfriend.

I had also considered that this may be a byproduct of a new player trying to feel out a group and figure out what's okay and what's not. Hopefully what I and others have done (ignore or quickly redirect to something else) shows that we're not okay with it/uncomfortable with it.

[goto124]

I suspect it's even more awkward if he doesn't know it's racist, and really thinks all asians eat cats or something.

Or less awkward because he stops once he realizes it's racist?

Depends. I've met people who insist they're not racist/sexist/etc even after being told do.

[Mr Beer]

I think it's a mistake to attempt to justify your rules if a new player wants to argue the toss. You'll get into a whole debate about whether it's OK to make '-ist' jokes and given there certainly are plenty of grey areas in that discussion, it's futile.

That's why your line needs to be stating what the rules are, not why they are. It's your prerogative to have rules, you don't need to justify them.

I'll give you an analogy, if you go to someone's house and they ask you to remove your shoes at the door, you don't then start a discussion about why, you just do it...that's because you're a normal person with manners. In this analogy, you're the host, you are not obliged to provide someone with a dissertation on your cultural background to explain why they need to take off their shoes.

[Liquor Box]

That's kind of the question I'm asking. As the DM, I could kick him out, but I don't wanna address it in a way that might cheese off both him and his girlfriend.

I had also considered that this may be a byproduct of a new player trying to feel out a group and figure out what's okay and what's not. Hopefully what I and others have done (ignore or quickly redirect to something else) shows that we're not okay with it/uncomfortable with it.

As many people have said, some groups will take those sorts of jokes in good humor, others find it mildly offensive.

Do you have a sense as to the consensus of the group you play with? It sounds like you find it mildly offensive and the player and his GF find it amusing. How do the other players see it?

[PrincessCupcake]

I have two sentences I say to people when these sorts of situations crop up. "I don't appreciate those kinds of jokes. Please do not make them in my presence." It is important to be calm and firm when you say them, though.

Awkward silence is usually enough, but some people need a verbal reminder not to do certain things.

[kraftcheese]

I always find situations like this really hard because I have trouble dealing with confrontation.

[Quertus]

Most people in my experience respond with something along the lines of "It's just a joke, why do you care, you're not even [insert here], etc." Given my work and the energy needed to run a game every week, it leaves me with little energy to deal with people's reactions to being called out for bad behavior.

I'll probably have a blanket discussion/reminder for the group so it doesn't seem like I'm singling anyone out.

I understand limited energy. But don't make a blanket reminder. If for some reason you are actually completely socially incapable of addressing him directly, stage an event, where one of your friends tells even worse jokes, and say something like, "ok, the racist eating cats comments were bad enough (that I was thinking about mentioning this anyway?), but this I can't let this go on any more. No more X at this table. Clear?".

That way, you're still explicitly saying that the previous behavior was bad (in case they missed the previous social clues / to make sure they get it), while not directly "attacking" them, because you are "attacking" the other player. I've seen that pulled off well a few times. But, again, direct is better.

But you may not have to do even that, because, as you yourself pointed out, this may be their way of feeling out a new group.

But... for completeness, let's say that's true. If they're smart enough to be testing if certain things offend, you've got no problem. But if they're trying to insert jokes and humor without realizing that there are different kinds of humor (yes, I've seen this - several times, in fact), it can be a bit trickier. Whether they're trying to indicate their preference for a social setting with more joking around, or whether you already joke a lot and they're just trying to fit in, they may view your awkward silences as a lack of acceptance of their technique, or that the individual joke wasn't good enough. In such a case, things will likely get worse, as they continue to try to find material that will have the desired result, possibly telling more (and more "memorable") jokes when you guys fail to get the "hint".

[Jay R]

Most people in my experience respond with something along the lines of "It's just a joke, why do you care, you're not even [insert here], etc."

"It doesn't matter why. It makes me uncomfortable, and I'm asking you to stop."

Given my work and the energy needed to run a game every week, it leaves me with little energy to deal with people's reactions to being called out for bad behavior.

I understand and sympathize. But in that case, don't forget that you are dealing with your own weakness as well as his. (That may help you be a little more sympathetic when you deal with his.)

I'll probably have a blanket discussion/reminder for the group so it doesn't seem like I'm singling anyone out.

Good luck. I suspect that the most likely result is that everybody except the joke-teller will understand you. You need to realize that he doesn't think it's wrong, and so will not associate it with your talk.