Homebrew Chef chat thread: I love you, brew.

[sengmeng]

Welcome to the Homebrew Chef chat thread!

This is the place for questions, comments, and concerns about the Homebrew Chef Contest!

Spoiler: Homebrew Chef Round II! Dragons: Color-coded for YOUR convenience

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Welcome, everyone, to Round II of Homebrew Chef!

Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build with at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Ingredients: The idea of this contest is that you will use existing homebrew to construct a character, whether your own or others. Homebrew should be 90% or more of the entry, but not homebrew specifically made for the contest. That should be as limited as possible, with anything more than a single feat a serious risk to the 'Elegance' portion of your score. As far as official material goes, competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Item Familiars and Taint are also banned from the competition. We don’t want to make this too easy, do we? The secret ingredient is Dragons!

Cooking time: Contestants will have until 17:59 CST (23:59 GMT) Thursday, April 10th to create their builds and PM them to the head judge, sengmeng. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 17:59 CST (23:59 GMT) Thursday, April 17th to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Concept.

Concept will be how close the contestants stick to the contest’s concept, based on the judge’s discretion.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. As the Iron Chef competition states, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance: Level adjustment buyoff is allowed, but may be docked off Elegance based on the judge’s preference.

Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.

Spoiler

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Level	Class	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Skills	Feats	Class Features
1st	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
2nd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
3rd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
4th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
5th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
6th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
7th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
8th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
9th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
10th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
11th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
12th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
13th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
14th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
15th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
16th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
17th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
18th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
19th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
20th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities

Code immediately below (spoiler).

Spoiler

Show

[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class[/B][/th]
[th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
[th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
[th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Speculation: Please don’t post or speculate on possible builds until the “reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

Concept for the 2nd Contest is:
Dragons
It should be conceptually linked to dragons in some way.

Leadership is banned for sanity reasons.
To Clarify:
No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog (Such as Thrallherd) has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM. If there are no votes, Honorable Mention will go to the head judge’s favorite build.

Begin your brewing.

For this first contest, we'll be going by ECL, not CR. So look for ECL 5, 10, 15, 20 as your building points.

Please cite your sources in some way. Judges may want to check the homebrew portions' dates or whether they were correctly interpreted and implemented.

The chat thread is coming. here.

[Grand Arbiter]

This looks interesting...

Are there any classes/feats/etc. not mentioned in the contest post that are prohibited?

[Jormengand]

This looks interesting...

Are there any classes/feats/etc. not mentioned in the contest post that are prohibited?

I know that if I were judging, I would harshly penalise the originality of classes from the base class challenge with the same theme (that is, the dungeon round). You might want to avoid them, even though they're not technically banned.

[sengmeng]

I know that if I were judging, I would harshly penalise the originality of classes from the base class challenge with the same theme (that is, the dungeon round). You might want to avoid them, even though they're not technically banned.

I have decided not to rule against that, but it should be noted that the Originality score would probably suffer if the entry was a single-class human with one of those classes. That's not showcasing the brewer's optimization skills at all. Are those classes a simple way to achieve the theme? Yes, but as Elegance is one of the criteria, simplicity should not be avoided like the plague, but merely awkwardly danced around with like at junior prom. Also, this being the first iteration of the contest, the rules are still in flux. In the spirit of experimentation, this round will probably be the most lax, and a learning experience for both judges and contestants.

I also will not outright ban the use of one's own homebrew, but it's in the same vein as cheese: keep it light, or go whole hog.

[Jormengand]

I also will not outright ban the use of one's own homebrew, but it's in the same vein as cheese: keep it light, or go whole hog.

I would think that this would only serve to disadvantage the makers of good homebrew on the basis that by doing to, they give others - but not themselves - an advantage. Then again, since the judges won't be able to tell whether people are using their own brew or not, the ruling is also totally unenforceable.

[sengmeng]

I would think that this would only serve to disadvantage the makers of good homebrew on the basis that by doing to, they give others - but not themselves - an advantage. Then again, since the judges won't be able to tell whether people are using their own brew or not, the ruling is also totally unenforceable.

As I said, it's not an outright ban, so if you want to use 90% your own material or just the 10% that you really feel is your absolute best, go ahead. As for enforceability, I don't intend to strike down ANY entry, but I do plan to do a little research on where stuff comes from, and scores may suffer accordingly. The research's primary goal would be to check the dates on the homebrew, however.

I apologize if I seem vague in my criteria, but I really don't want to set any rules in stone just yet, and I certainly don't want to stymie anyone's creativity. It's all subjective anyway, and my opinion will matter less and less the more judges I can find to spread the blame load.

[Jormengand]

As I said, it's not an outright ban, so if you want to use 90% your own material or just the 10% that you really feel is your absolute best, go ahead. As for enforceability, I don't intend to strike down ANY entry, but I do plan to do a little research on where stuff comes from, and scores may suffer accordingly. The research's primary goal would be to check the dates on the homebrew, however.

I apologize if I seem vague in my criteria, but I really don't want to set any rules in stone just yet, and I certainly don't want to stymie anyone's creativity. It's all subjective anyway, and my opinion will matter less and less the more judges I can find to spread the blame load.

Well, see, in most of these competitions the chair doesn't judge at all, which is precisely so that none of the judges know who made the build.

[sengmeng]

A fine idea, once I'm not the only one.

On that note... who would like to be a judge?

[Beelzebub1111]

If I were to post an updated brew of something from a previous contest that I never got around to errataing. Could I, or someone else, use that brew.

Basically I want to finish/fix my spellshaper and use it for this contest,

[sengmeng]

If I were to post an updated brew of something from a previous contest that I never got around to errataing. Could I, or someone else, use that brew.

Basically I want to finish/fix my spellshaper and use it for this contest,

That's a tough call. To do it justice, I'd need to know how the spell-shaper looked before and after the errata. Can you preserve the original for me to view at some point? It would really only hurt your elegance score if it appears to have been changed to fit the theme, not just to improve/balance/finish it.

[Beelzebub1111]

Not a problem. It's still unchanged in the contest thread...it was the "other tabletop games" theme and I won't be changing that On top of that, I don't think I'll be using anything that I am changing.

It's just one of those things I never got around to since I moved

[sengmeng]

Not a problem. It's still unchanged in the contest thread...it was the "other tabletop games" theme and I won't be changing that On top of that, I don't think I'll be using anything that I am changing.

It's just one of those things I never got around to since I moved

Ahh, carry on then. Keep calm at your option.

[Grand Arbiter]

Thank you for the swift response.

Hopefully I can find the free time to compose an entry; this seems like it would be an enjoyable experience.

[Beelzebub1111]

This is really my first Chef competition and a little unsure about presentation and formatting. specifically for the 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th and "sweet-spot" writeups. Should I include backstory elements?

[sengmeng]

This is really my first Chef competition and a little unsure about presentation and formatting. specifically for the 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th and "sweet-spot" writeups. Should I include backstory elements?

Yes, yes, a million times yes. We are building characters in this competition, and fluff is huge. You don't have to explain every feat or spell choice, but background and motivation are the salt and pepper that season the dish. Backstory and fluff will influence, at least in part, every criteria other than power.

Happy brewing!

[Jormengand]

Judges will have until 17:59 CST (23:59 GMT) Monday, February 23rd to judge the builds and submit their scores.

Hey! Why haven't we got our judging yet! You have, like one and a half hours to do it!



(Also, it's not Monday, but that's an aside.)

[Beelzebub1111]

Because the submissions aren't due until march. Which is weird.

[Jormengand]

Because the submissions aren't due until march. Which is weird.

I know; the point is that the judging deadline is a copy-paste error.

[Zaydos]

What is involved in judging?

[Temotei]

What is involved in judging?

If it's supposed to be like Iron Chef (in the 3.5 section), you'll assess each category and give scores to each, followed by a total score. Generally judges look at specific things that boost or take away from a category and point that out with a little (-0.5) next to it or whatever.

That said, even in Iron Chef, judging has no particular rules aside from "don't be a jerk" and "don't assume RAW when it's unreasonable," if I remember correctly.

[Beelzebub1111]

Now I'm debating on if I should make the dungeon associated with the character. I'll put it down as "If I have time"

[sengmeng]

If it's supposed to be like Iron Chef (in the 3.5 section), you'll assess each category and give scores to each, followed by a total score. Generally judges look at specific things that boost or take away from a category and point that out with a little (-0.5) next to it or whatever.

That said, even in Iron Chef, judging has no particular rules aside from "don't be a jerk" and "don't assume RAW when it's unreasonable," if I remember correctly.

Yes, this. I would caveat it to say that it is just as personal, as far as how you assign scores, as voting in the Base Class Challenge, but judges will NOT be participants, and it's a bit more of a commitment.

This also reminds me that this first contest will be 3.x only, and I should put that in the contest thread.

[Beelzebub1111]

Would equipment be standard for wealth-by-level as described by the DMG?

[sengmeng]

Would equipment be standard for wealth-by-level as described by the DMG?

Equipment is a grey area; usually a build doesn't need it statted out unless the equipment makes a huge difference in how it plays (the judge doesn't need to know you have a +5 greatsword, but if your combat style relies on a portable hole, mention it). However, if you are using homebrewed equipment, make sure it is mentioned, and if you break WBL, give it a fluff justification.

[Beelzebub1111]

Oh, the terrible tedium of tables.

I'm almost done, and while I don't think I'll be getting points for power, Story might make up for it.

[Zaydos]

So how many judges have you got?

[sengmeng]

So far? Me.

[Zaydos]

I'll bite the bullet and volunteer then.

[Temotei]

I should be able to judge. I've got spring break right after the entries come in.

[sengmeng]

I should be able to judge. I've got spring break right after the entries come in.

I'll bite the bullet and volunteer then.

Thanks you two! I didn't want to ask in case either of you wanted to enter.

Two is better than one, especially if the one isn't doing it anonymously.