Character Starting Level

[Zeful]

Okay I'm designing a starting point for a campagin but I don't know what level the PCs should start at.

My starting point is a prison break. The PCs have one week to get out of jail before they're executed. I'm trying to set it up so I don't stifle PC creativity, but I don't want it so easy as anyone could break out. This is where I run into problems, if I start them at level 1 they have to rely on me to let them out. But if they're level 10 they could have the Rogue pick the lock with a stiff hair and walk unmolested out the prison. What level do you guy's think I should start them at?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[Piccamo]

Level 3 should work well.

[asqwasqw]

I agree. Between 3 and 6 should be good. How long do you want the campaign to last?

[Seffbasilisk]

Level 4-5 I'd say, but heck it's ok you're starting a new game, I mean...you just dissapeared from our old game. Not like you won't find a new batch of saps to get invested in thier characters before you dissapear on them.

(Bitter? Me? Never...)

[Zeful]

I don't know how long I want it to last, I don't particularily care either.

I was thinking level three or four but I still want to run from level one up.

EDIT:Heh heh err sorry about that, I forgot. Then I lost my stuff. If I start a new game I can certainly guaranty that that won't happen again.

[Piccamo]

You can run it from level 1, provided there is opportunity to escape such as if there is a common area they all have access to temporarily.

[Zeful]

I don't know the concept of an excersize yard is a new thing and wouldn't fit that well into my world.

EDIT:At Level 1 they way out is generally DM fiat and I want to avoid that.

[Piccamo]

Why is it by GM fiat? A level 1 PC can overpower a level 1 or 2 warrior. They just have to have opportunity.

[Zeful]

But most prisons have well trained guards... generally though the concepts of rookies appeal to me...

I will think more on this.

[Seffbasilisk]

Why the deuce would you guard prisoners with rookies? You'd have maybe 2 rookies for every four vetrans. So the level 1 or 2 PCs beat up the rookies, then the vetrans come and PWNz0rZ them good and hard.

Level 4-5 they start to have a chance, especially with guards ranging from levels 2-4. And remember, the whole thing is a large encounter with lots of small encounters in it. If they screw up in dealing with a guard, the guard alerts the rest of the guards, they leave a skeleton guard on the base and all that can be spared come to beat the stuffing out of the PCs.


Oh, and find your damn stuff and restart the game. I want Fergal back!

[Inigo_Carmine]

It really depends on:
- What powered world do you have? Are your average people walking down the street first level commoners or epic level god-slaying fruit vendors? More importantly, what are the prison guards?
- What kind of jail do you have them in? a half dozen cells in a small wooden building? A complex stonewalled dungeon under a castle keep? And advanced magical prison, etc.
- Also, what kind of classes are your PCs? Monks, Sorcerers (w/ eschew materials) and (at wildshaping levels) druids can fair well with no equipment whatsoever. Fighters, barbarians, clerics are moderately useful. Bards and Rogues social skills could be a great boon (and the rogue's ability to be useful with improvised tools and weak weapons). Wizards? You have a commoner with 1 more hitpoint and a few more simple weapon proficiencies.

We need more info to really give you a good answer.

[Wolf_Shade]

Start them at level 1. Make them earn their freedom!

[Piccamo]

"Rookies" would be level 1 and veterans level 2. Neither is difficult for a group of PCs.

Heavy consequences for failing to stop a guard from escaping would be a nice touch, but you'd have to give them places to hide so the game doesn't end in the first 5 minutes.

[Zeful]

It really depends on:
- What powered world do you have? Are your average people walking down the street first level commoners or epic level god-slaying fruit vendors? More importantly, what are the prison guards?

Most people are maybe 2-3 level commoners, mostly from learning to hunt for themselves. The guards are conceptualized around 3-4 level warriors with a Warden around either level 2 fighter or level 4-5 Warrior stuck doing paperwork for most of the day.

- What kind of jail do you have them in? a half dozen cells in a small wooden building? A complex stonewalled dungeon under a castle keep? And advanced magical prison, etc.

Simple underground jail. A straight line between lockup and victory

- Also, what kind of classes are your PCs? Monks, Sorcerers (w/ eschew materials) and (at wildshaping levels) druids can fair well with no equipment whatsoever. Fighters, barbarians, clerics are moderately useful. Bards and Rogues social skills could be a great boon (and the rogue's ability to be useful with improvised tools and weak weapons). Wizards? You have a commoner with 1 more hitpoint and a few more simple weapon proficiencies.

We need more info to really give you a good answer.

I realy don't have PCs but I was thinking of a group of five or so maybe fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard, sorcerer. or fighter, rogue, cleric, binder, shadowcaster.

EDIT:

"Rookies" would be level 1 and veterans level 2. Neither is difficult for a group of PCs.

Heavy consequences for failing to stop a guard from escaping would be a nice touch, but you'd have to give them places to hide so the game doesn't end in the first 5 minutes.

Oh I planned on a run for the hills senario. 1000 miles between them and the next country.

Seff, give me one week to find/rebuild stuff and you try to get the other players together. I'd do it but I've got to find my stuff.

[Raum]

If you're planning a long term campaign I recommend level 1. If not, pick whatever level you and your players prefer playing. The jail can be built to be challenging for any level, just change why it's difficult to match.

At level one, the small town's drunk tank can be a challenge. By level three, it may be a larger city's long term prison. To challenge level ten characters it might be a wizard guild imprisoning experimental subjects or a national prison for dangerous traitors. At level twenty the gods may get involved...they may need to imprison those they want to delay but not kill - or kill after a trial.

Point is, the level can be whatever you want. Build the adventure around the level you want to play.

[SoulCatcher78]

For some ideas on how to get them out and still give them a ton of grief by using something like module A4 (In the Dungeons of the Slave Lords). Nothing like being stripped of all your stuff and then whammo, you get dumped into a cave systems after an earthquake. It's more fun than it sounds, honest

As far as starting level, depending on how hard you want to make it on them (and yourself for that matter because by going lower on level, you reduce their options dependant on skills/feats) I'd go with level 3. It gives them a fari chance of getting out unassisted and keeps you from having to keep them alive. Maybe place a restriction on Wizards and promote sorcerers instead so that you don't have to figure out how to get the poor guys spellbooks (or someone elses) back to him.

As far as an option for a prison setting, work camp on the edge of the wilderness (think gulag on the tundra with mounted guards) or a simillar setting but underground (mining settlement in the underdark using slave/prison labor). Penal colonies were popular throughout history, why not use that concept in D&D.

[Zeful]

I never thought about any of that stuff really. A penal colony might work but doesn't have the flair I'm looking for, a good idea for a low interaction hack and slash but not what I'm looking for.

I'm starting to get a more defined idea of where I want to go with this.

[bugsysservant]

I would suggest level one or two, no higher than three. Let them work it out cleverly, rather than just "I pick the lock and leave." If you want inspiration read the first few chapters of The Count of Monte Cristo Also, consider an opportunity to escape/earn freedom through gladitorial combat. Getting out of your standard prison should be difficult, but not impossible, especially if you let the spellcasters memorize spells before their capture. Let 'em have some fun with it and if they grow bored knock down the prison with an earthquake.

[Bassetking]

So, if we're shooting for third level, our mage only has access to Second Level spells. This "Only" includes some powerhouse workhorses of utility spells. "Knock, Web, Rope Trick, Open/close, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Disguise Self, Blindness, Darkness..." All of which are tailor made to help a caster out of the slam. "Eschew Materials" will cover almost everything they'd need to cast.

Our rogue will, if optimized for the encounter, pass a DC15 check every time. (6 from ranks, 5 from modifier, 2 from skill focus, 2 from masterwork tools: Not likely at level 3, but certainly not unreasonable.)

At level 3, a fighter can hit a stone wall... Every time he swings. With an optimized build, and a starting strength of 20, or fighter is, barehanded, doing 1d2+5+3 damage to the wall. Every twenty swings, he will critical, and double his damage. For the sake of being difficult, I'm going to assume a reinforced masonry wall, and double its thickness... 360 HP... Your fighter breaks through the wall in 360 rounds, or, one concentrated hour of work.

Helpful, at all?

[Tor the Fallen]

Depends on the size of the prison and the danger the prisoners pose. A big prison may have some very tough guards, but it's also very likely that they will be guarding the very tough prisoners.

I would make the guards NPC levels 1-3. Commoner 1/warrior1, warrior 1, warrior 2, etc. The guard in charge may be level five or six for that cell block, maybe. In a prison, however, those 'in charge' could be experts rather than guards. They push papers around all day.

Also, you could bump the guards up in age a bit, or have them lazy, not paying attention, etc.

There's no reason a prison would have level 20 fighters with 20s in all their stats guarding level 1 prisoners.

[Gralamin]

Their is if its a prison housing level 1 kobold paladins.

But honestly, at level 3 the wizard could get out of their before you know it.

[Tor the Fallen]

So, if we're shooting for third level, our mage only has access to Second Level spells. This "Only" includes some powerhouse workhorses of utility spells. "Knock, Web, Rope Trick, Open/close, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Disguise Self, Blindness, Darkness..." All of which are tailor made to help a caster out of the slam. "Eschew Materials" will cover almost everything they'd need to cast.

Just don't tell the PCs that they're going to be stuck in a dungeon. A wizard will absolutely helpless without his book. A sorc will have only a few of those spells as known; knock and rope trick usually don't make known spells, at least for low levels.

Our rogue will, if optimized for the encounter, pass a DC15 check every time. (6 from ranks, 5 from modifier, 2 from skill focus, 2 from masterwork tools: Not likely at level 3, but certainly not unreasonable.)

Where would the rogue find this masterwork lock picking kit? Certainly not in his 10'x10' cell....

At level 3, a fighter can hit a stone wall... Every time he swings. With an optimized build, and a starting strength of 20, or fighter is, barehanded, doing 1d2+5+3 damage to the wall. Every twenty swings, he will critical, and double his damage. For the sake of being difficult, I'm going to assume a reinforced masonry wall, and double its thickness... 360 HP... Your fighter breaks through the wall in 360 rounds, or, one concentrated hour of work.

Wouldn't work. Objects are immune to nonlethal damage and critical hits. So even if you were doing lethal damage with your fist, you'd only be doing 1 damage once every 20 swings.

The warden would likely take note of your activity.

Or the DM would just rule that your fist is an ineffective weapon against a stone wall.

[Blackbrrd]

I would say level 1 or 2. As somebody said, you can make it a small prison, and there should be times when they guard is weak. Maybe 1-2 guards turned in sick (poisoned?), maybe one of the guards get bribed to get the PCs some weapons? Some of the guards may be known cowards... The list goes on.

The point is that you can set up the jail in advance about as challenging as necessary. What annoys players are encounters that make no sense - for instance another escapee who is level 10 helping them out. It should be possible to make a mess of an escape attempt if you don't take your time planning it. Oh... and please in a jail most things are routine, so the players should be able to know what guards are where and what their habits are.

[banjo1985]

I personally always start my characters out at level 1, but it's really up to the kind of jail you want to incarcerate them in. If it's a huge underground warren of dangerous criminals and vicious jailors then its almost absurd that a group of level 1 characters will survive, let alone escape, without help from the GM. However if it's a run-down cave for prisoners of some goblin or orc tribe then Level 1 characetrs are perfectly capable of getting out of there on their own merit.

[Armads]

Level 3. You could have a few Warriors as guards, maybe an adept there, and make the lock breakable given enough time. Maybe when a worker at the prison opens the door, they could make a jailbreak, or when the guards are sleeping.

Then again, at level 1, with a simple lock, since it's probably some old jail facility, the party might get out without it being too difficult. One or two wardens (warriors) could be standing there, unarmed, when your PCs break out.

[Lord_Kimboat]

I believe in strongly starting a long term campaign at level 1. Seriously, if you start at 3 or 4, heck even at 2 - you've basically said, "you just sailed through 1000xp because I can't be bothered thinking of something to challenge you."

Role playing is also about developing the story of the characters and if you start at higher levels, it's starting that story somewhere other than the start. My suggestions are:- start them out in a country/back hills jail where the standards aren't so high (this lets you put them up against lvl 1 commoners).

- Run a session or two with each PC to work out how they got into jail in the first place (all you have to reach is 1000 or 3000xp)

- Create some challenges in the prison to let them level up.