Duck Season II: Firing Back

[Xihirli]

Considering we've killed only one, I'd assume three left.

It's hard to tell because most players aren't very active, but I would presume Meta is one, I would suspect BasketofPuppies and either one of the more inactive players or possibly Aventine/Pelican - I don't really like the whole 'I will jump on a bandwagon, tell everyone else to do Towny things and sit back and relax in the confusion while my Ducky teammates aren't in danger'. Norman, Kish, Xihirli, Lex, FC and Disc Lorde are almost definitely Town. I kind of like Libro's efforts in at least trying to scumhunt, but there's not much to say about it alignment-wise until/unless there are some sort of results. So far the network has been disappointingly bad at doing any public good whatsoever.




Hey, I almost didn't notice this. Can you also confirm that I didn't target anyone the night before last, because I didn't have any powers yet?

I cannot do that.

[Murska]

I cannot do that.

Can you switch your vote?

[Xihirli]

Hypothetically, yes.

[Murska]

Hypothetically, yes.

What actions should be undertaken by me or anyone easily manipulable by me to cause you to shift your vote? Prioritize in order of effort required by myself.

[Xihirli]

Duck999 saying; "when I said the wolf was a hunter role, I meant an evil hunter role," a seer-claim calling you a hunter/non-duck-animal, Meta devil/duck claiming, flat_footed returning to life to cackle and scream that he was evil all along, and finally, if you go back in time to right after flat_footed died and didn't celebrate the death of one of your enemies after a hunter role died.

Yes, nearly everyone who's played a good number of games has driven everyone toward a hunter/villager bandwagon at least once. I was that bandwagon for a disproportionate amount of those people relative to the amount of games I've been in. But this is the first time I've ever seen someone insist that a narrator-confirmed hunter/villager role is evil. That's why I voted for you. Not because you "lynched us a hunter." Honestly it wouldn't be grounds to lynch FC if I had been killed and flipped town back when that was a thing. I'm a pretty easy accidental town lynch. But the part after flat_footed flipped a hunter role? When you did not accept that flat_footed was a hunter role? That was the moment that I could not imagine you being on our side.

[Murska]

Look, it'd have been pretty disingenuous of me to try and claim lynching flatfooted was an accident. I didn't care at all about lynching him until he claimed to be Wolf, just about being on the winning bandwagon for the day to avoid not participating in a potential target lynch. But when he outright claimed to be someone I need to kill, I went for it - why not?

I didn't know he was on Hunter side. Not my problem. My enemy died, that's cause for celebration.

Anyway, if you want a Seer-claim calling me a non-duck animal, feel free to allow me to survive today and have someone scry me. The others I can't really affect - asking Duck to affirm that, from my perspective, the Wolf was evil, would be breaking his neutrality, and the others are beyond my power. Aside from getting Meta to claim devil I suppose, but that's a bit difficult too.

[Kish]

Look, it'd have been pretty disingenuous of me to try and claim lynching flatfooted was an accident. I didn't care at all about lynching him until he claimed to be Wolf, just about being on the winning bandwagon for the day to avoid not participating in a potential target lynch. But when he outright claimed to be someone I need to kill, I went for it - why not?

I didn't know he was on Hunter side. Not my problem. My enemy died, that's cause for celebration.

So you acknowledge that all that stuff about him being only temporarily on the hunter side, him biting people, and so on, was lying?

[Xihirli]

Look, right now it's looking like the only person other than you who could die would be Meta.
I'm not certain of the timetable here, but it's my understanding that Meta claimed to have an animal role before you scried him as such. If he were going to lie (and I severely doubt that the ducks anticipated that someone would have the power to tell if someone was an animal, but not a duck, especially since you claim that you didn't have that ability until recently), Meta would have lied and said he was a hunter, not an animal. I believe that Meta has a role that is beneficial to town, while you have a role that is harmful-to-neutral to town.

[Murska]

So you acknowledge that all that stuff about him being only temporarily on the hunter side, him biting people, and so on, was lying?

Yeah, sure.

Look, right now it's looking like the only person other than you who could die would be Meta.
I'm not certain of the timetable here, but it's my understanding that Meta claimed to have an animal role before you scried him as such. If he were going to lie (and I severely doubt that the ducks anticipated that someone would have the power to tell if someone was an animal, but not a duck, especially since you claim that you didn't have that ability until recently), Meta would have lied and said he was a hunter, not an animal. I believe that Meta has a role that is beneficial to town, while you have a role that is harmful-to-neutral to town.

Lex straight out stated that Meta only claimed to have an animal role after my claim of scrying him. Here:

I'll give it to everyone straight:

Meta is claiming to be a Novice Hunting Dog. He has already provided me with his first four scries. Thing is, he didn't claim the specific of Hunting Dog until the Night ended. He just told me he had a scry.

This is different from what Mrs. McGinty had offered to me, as she described it as smelling. Each of her scries came back as 'Player X smells of (Plastic or Metal). Only got 2 scries from her, as the third night she was "scared off" from her target (voided), and of course she died night four.

Meta's scries come back more like spying. Night 1: Interference from Mrs. McGinty. Night 2: "You creep up on..." Night 3: "You listen closely and hear..." Night 4: "You hear some panting..."

Now, I don't doubt the veracity of the scries. I do doubt, however, that a Novice Dog would get better detail than a Professional Dog.

I'm going to have to side with Murska on this. This was a hard decision, and I had to really give it some thought, but I think Meta is likely a Devil Duck.

((I will also point out that Meta wished to reveal himself, and hope that a Baner would protect him during the night. But I asked him to wait before revealing himself. Take all this information as you want, but I think he's bluffing.))

Emphasis mine.

[Kish]

It appears that Meta claimed to have some kind of scrying ability but didn't name role, and only added that their role is specifically the Novice Hunting Puppy after Lex-Kat said he's an animal. This is not a reason to switch from Murska to Meta, or from Murska at all; Murska is the only one here who has confirmedly presented himself and others as something they were not.

[Murska]

It appears that Meta claimed to have some kind of scrying ability but didn't name role, and only added that their role is specifically the Novice Hunting Puppy after Lex-Kat said he's an animal. This is not a reason to switch from Murska to Meta, or from Murska at all; Murska is the only one here who has confirmedly presented himself and others as something they were not.

However, Ducks would never do something like that. No Duck would ever lie in a way that'd be disprovable, let alone admit it.

[Murska]

"I'm not a duck because ducks always play perfectly and it's too obvious that I'm a duck" remains a ridiculous argument.

Well, to be fair, I'm not claiming that ducks always play perfectly, just that I always play perfectly. Why would I use ridiculous arguments if I weren't aiming to deconstruct the joke by having them end up truthful anyway?

[Kish]

"I'm not a duck because ducks always play perfectly and it's too obvious that I'm a duck" remains a ridiculous argument.

Updated ----

Murska just PM'd me, suggesting that I am a duck and offering to help the ducks in a way that will be more useful than Meta if hypothetical duck-me stops pushing to lynch him.

No, I do not think this is evidence that he's not a duck (I think he wants me to think it is). Nor even really evidence that he's anti-town (since a hypothetically town-loyal Murska could easily be planning to immediately PM Lex-Kat "Kish just admitted to being a duck!" if I took him up on it); the fact that he freely admitted to not caring that he arranged the lynch of a hunter is evidence that he can and will sabotage town freely. Just...putting information out there.

If you always play perfectly why is there a wagon on you for the second day in a row?

[Murska]

Perfection requires sacrifice. You might not understand my genius within the timespan of this game, or over your entire lifetime, but one day, when the stars are long dead and entropy is finally about to score the final blow on the last sputtering black hole in the universe, my plan will become apparent.


EDIT: To note, as enjoyable as being absurd is, I feel like if I were a Duck I'd want to keep this kind of conversation ongoing. And I'm actually not one, so out of the kindness of my heart I do notify the active Town-sided players that you're not gaining anything by letting all scumhunting be drowned by chaff. Be your stance on me and Meta as it may, there's no reason not to put in actually salient discussion on the finer points of lynching Pelican and BasketofPuppies or whatever you heartless murderers intend to do next..

[Duck999]

It's funny to watch you all capitalize duck as if it were a proper noun because it is in a way in this game, but that's also how people write my name when they are addressing me on the forums.

[Murska]

Hey Duck, mind stating (with all necessary disclaimers) that (from some subjective point of view) the wolf is evil?

[ImperatorV]

Vote changing to Meta, Lex's post has me convinced for now.

[Kish]

If you do, please mention whether "evil" means "harmful to town," or the semantically-meaningless and already-proven information "there is at least one character in the game who wanted the wolf dead."

[Murska]

If you do, please mention whether "evil" means "harmful to town," or the semantically-meaningless and already-proven information "there is at least one character in the game who wanted the wolf dead."

I assume that'd fall within the appropriate disclaimers.

EDIT: "The wolf is evil" gets almost three million results on Google while "Murska is evil" only gets about fifty thousand. Google can't be wrong, right?

- - - Updated - - -

Murska needs to die.

Seriously though. Look at this post. Even trying to be objective, it's not really contributing to Town. Opinions?

- - - Updated - - -

Murska did target Meta tonight. I can confirm that.
That doesn't make him any less my vote.

Oh, by the way, if Xihirli sees who I target and not who targets Meta, he can confirm that I didn't send a Duck nightkill either. Bonus points for me!

- - - Updated - - -

Murska. Easy lynch. Probably a good idea to look at other targets as well though so we don't just waste a day.

Scummiest post today if you discount my own.

[norman250]

I will concur that some of those posts seem under-the-radar scum.

[Xihirli]

When I was a wolf in the only game in which I have been a wolf so far, only one of us could send a night-kill at a time, but we all had power-roles, so each of us spent a night-action on other things while one attempted to kill in the night. You didn't night-kill anyone, but that only means you didn't night-kill anyone, not that you're not a duck or devil or malevolent neutral.
And maybe I am convinced that you're neutral. I'm not certain. I never can be with you. But I do know that you have a motive for killing Meta that nobody else should have. I believe that Meta is town and you are probably neutral. That still puts Meta's life at a priority higher than yours, especially since there may very well be some members of town who are your enemies.

[Murska]

When I was a wolf in the only game in which I have been a wolf so far, only one of us could send a night-kill at a time, but we all had power-roles, so each of us spent a night-action on other things while one attempted to kill in the night. You didn't night-kill anyone, but that only means you didn't night-kill anyone, not that you're not a duck or devil or malevolent neutral.
And maybe I am convinced that you're neutral. I'm not certain. I never can be with you. But I do know that you have a motive for killing Meta that nobody else should have. I believe that Meta is town and you are probably neutral. That still puts Meta's life at a priority higher than yours, especially since there may very well be some members of town who are your enemies.

What information do you have that the Masons don't, that makes you believe Meta over them as to whether he's Town?

I didn't night-kill anyone, which means I'm slightly less likely to be a Duck. I mean, after yesterday and with FC already mentioning Watchers it'd basically come down to a Duck internal discussion as to whether to just dump me under a bus and let me throw out the NK to prevent more important leakages, or to give me a shot and let someone else do the killing. I'd choose the former if I were a Duck, because I wouldn't expect for a second for there to be any chance of survival for myself in the coming day. I'd probably have used my Vig kill instead of a scry in the first place.

EDIT: It's also telling that pretty much every suspicious player in the game is either inactive or voting to kill me instead of Meta.

[Supagoof]

Hey, old friend, fellow, amigo. Can you pretty please switch vote off me? Just for today? I'd love to not die.

Sure. But only because you asked so nicely.
Meta

[Duck999]

Hey Duck, mind stating (with all necessary disclaimers) that (from some subjective point of view) the wolf is evil?

Disclaimer: I cannot answer this question, or many others for that matter.

[Pelican]

Murska was a clear choice when I thought he was lying about the network telling him to scry Meta. I was honestly willing to treat it just like a seer claim day and leave it at that. Now that Lex has come out saying that he wasn't lying about that, this day is giving me flashbacks to earlier in this game. I especially object to the whole "if Meta is town lynch Murska" thing and vise versa. I think it's more than likely that we've got another town town situation (or town/neutral with potential utility to town) that looks sketchy because the roles in this game are insane.

With that being said, I'm switching to Deathslayer7. The more I reread the pm I got from them, the more fishy it seems, and when I say fishy I mean literally trying to fish for roles. If Murska's claims are true and he wants to go after Meta, he has a risk free way of doing so that does not involve us wasting the lynch. If anyone else wants to give up on speculating about possible roles and evaluating claims in a game where I'm convinced almost literally anything is possible at this point, Deathslyer is my suggestion.

EDIT: Though I'd be interested in talking about Elenna, or ImperatorV as well...

[Murska]

I TRICKED ALL OF YOU! I LOVE BIRDS!

Ducks are birds. Discuss.

[Xihirli]

Lolth-forsake it.
Murska, you magnificent eyeball, I gave your book an unfavorable review on Amazon!

Deathslayer7.

[Grand Arbiter]

Murska was a clear choice when I thought he was lying about the network telling him to scry Meta. I was honestly willing to treat it just like a seer claim day and leave it at that. Now that Lex has come out saying that he wasn't lying about that, this day is giving me flashbacks to earlier in this game. I especially object to the whole "if Meta is town lynch Murska" thing and vise versa. I think it's more than likely that we've got another town town situation (or town/neutral with potential utility to town) that looks sketchy because the roles in this game are insane.

With that being said, I'm switching to Deathslayer7. The more I reread the pm I got from them, the more fishy it seems, and when I say fishy I mean literally trying to fish for roles. If Murska's claims are true and he wants to go after Meta, he has a risk free way of doing so that does not involve us wasting the lynch. If anyone else wants to give up on speculating about possible roles and evaluating claims in a game where I'm convinced almost literally anything is possible at this point, Deathslyer is my suggestion.

I mulled it over and came to a similar notion regarding Murska vs Meta. I'm inclined to agree its likely another town vs town.

Working on analyzing the thread now for a new target.

[Kish]

Question, Murska: What--exactly--is your win condition?

[norman250]

Why do people think Murska versus Meta is town v. town? Murska has all but said the actual words "I am a neutral."

I mean, if you don't want to lynch him, that's one thing, but I think it should be pretty clear he isn't town. Useful to town? That remains to be seen.