Duck Season II: Firing Back

[Murska]

Question, Murska: What--exactly--is your win condition?

I'll avoid word-for-word quotation, but paraphrasing 'take part in eliminating the animals' to unlock my abilities, and succeed with each one. Wolf was a bit of a special case, unlocking all of the abilities at once but also having something to counter me with, which is why I went in pretty hard and fast.

Why do people think Murska versus Meta is town v. town? Murska has all but said the actual words "I am a neutral."

I mean, if you don't want to lynch him, that's one thing, but I think it should be pretty clear he isn't town. Useful to town? That remains to be seen.

Useless or not, at least I'm putting in real effort to make the thread active and interesting.

Plus, I'm entertaining and informative.

[Kish]

What's your win condition, though? What needs to take place for Duck999's final narration to include, "Murska won because..." and avoid "Murska lost because..."?

[Xihirli]

As much as I am loathe to admit it, Murska is arguably the cleverest player we have. If his win condition includes the ducks' death...
No. I'm not going to say it. I don't want to.

[Murska]

What's your win condition, though? What needs to take place for Duck999's final narration to include, "Murska won because..." and avoid "Murska lost because..."?

Have all abilities unlocked and successfully use each one at least once before your death.

[Grand Arbiter]

@norman250: It would be more accurate to say town vs not-duck. Not 100% certain, but I could see it happening.

I'd like to point out, if you count the votes yesterday you'll see this:

Voting for Black Socks: McGinty, Pelican, Penguinator, Meta, Fortuna, Eggel, Murska, Thematthew, Lex

That makes 9

Voting for Lex: Vesth, FC, Libro, Kish, norman, Ramsus

That makes 6

If there was a tie, then either I cannot count at all or there was some sort of shenanigans. Multi-voting, vote manipulation, or something. People seem to be claiming Ramsus saved his wolf buddy. That requires the assumption that the vote shenanigans was wolf caused. Until someone provides any evidence at all I'm not going to make that assumption. Seems at least as likely, if not more so, that he was intending to end up on the counter-wagon to the mislynch.

Then there's the fact that a duck decoy* is something used by hunters to help catch ducks and yet people are trying to argue that claiming to be a decoy makes Black Socks a duck.

If you think he is suspicious then vote for him for being suspicious. Bad reasoning just makes this wagon itself look suspicious. And this wagon has gotten too dominant too fast.


*Guess I can't post links, just check wikipedia if you don't believe me...

I stumbled upon this as I was rereading the thread...my ability can account for some of the difference but not all.
Taking into account my ability as mayor:

Voting for Black Socks: McGinty, Pelican, Penguinator, Fortuna, Eggel, Murska, Thematthew, Lex

That makes 8

Voting for Lex: Vesth, FC, Libro, Kish, norman, Ramsus, Meta,

That makes 7

I underlined Meta's vote since my ability moved his vote to match mine. Somebody else must have a vote-influencing power that either nulled a vote for Black Socks or added another vote to Lex-kat. Anybody want to speak up?

[Murska]

I kind of doubt anyone on Town side would admit to having deliberately forced a mislynch of a Mason.

I don't know how much I can talk about my motivations or actions in my previous life. Duck999?

[norman250]

Useless or not, at least I'm putting in real effort to make the thread active and interesting.

Plus, I'm entertaining and informative.

This, I will grant you.

[Deathslayer7]

Murska was a clear choice when I thought he was lying about the network telling him to scry Meta. I was honestly willing to treat it just like a seer claim day and leave it at that. Now that Lex has come out saying that he wasn't lying about that, this day is giving me flashbacks to earlier in this game. I especially object to the whole "if Meta is town lynch Murska" thing and vise versa. I think it's more than likely that we've got another town town situation (or town/neutral with potential utility to town) that looks sketchy because the roles in this game are insane.

With that being said, I'm switching to Deathslayer7. The more I reread the pm I got from them, the more fishy it seems, and when I say fishy I mean literally trying to fish for roles. If Murska's claims are true and he wants to go after Meta, he has a risk free way of doing so that does not involve us wasting the lynch. If anyone else wants to give up on speculating about possible roles and evaluating claims in a game where I'm convinced almost literally anything is possible at this point, Deathslyer is my suggestion.

EDIT: Though I'd be interested in talking about Elenna, or ImperatorV as well...

I already knew your role from FC. He told me what you have. I was fishing for information but not the information you think. I asked FC if i should pm you directly or go through him. He said to PM. Probably because he was sick of acting as a proxy to everything. What I wanted to know is how my night ability works since I used it on you twice. I waited almost a week before I even heard back from you and yet you can't give me a solid conclusion on how it works....and somehow I am suspicious for wanting to figure out how my ability works.... Lynch me for that if you want.

Voting for ImperatorV but will change it to red later. On my phone at the moment on lunch checking in.

I don't believe in the murska vote. Maybe the meta vote but ehhhh. What murska needs, may be inclined with town for the moment but that could change. We should take what he says with a grain of salt. There's truth behind what he says but he might be avoiding or changing facts to suit his win condition whatever that may be.

[Meta]

I actually claimed non-hunter on hunter team before McGinty's death, when flat_footed was going to the gallows. It was post #425.

Murska has unlocked new abilities and probably needs at least one of your remaining Seers (me) dead. He is a significantly better lynch than I or pretty much anyone else in the current hour as he's derailed town as a whole for far too long. This is time we could be using to lynch ImperatorV (I want to see how DS7 v. Pelican turns out) but if not enough people move off of me we turn a partial victory in to a fiasco.

[Murska]

Very vague.

[Duck999]

I don't know how much I can talk about my motivations or actions in my previous life. Duck999?

Try not to talk about anything someone else couldn't get rom what you said in that life. No sharing what your previous role did.

[Pelican]

I already knew your role from FC. He told me what you have. I was fishing for information but not the information you think. I asked FC if i should pm you directly or go through him. He said to PM. Probably because he was sick of acting as a proxy to everything. What I wanted to know is how my night ability works since I used it on you twice. I waited almost a week before I even heard back from you and yet you can't give me a solid conclusion on how it works....and somehow I am suspicious for wanting to figure out how my ability works.... Lynch me for that if you want.

Voting for ImperatorV but will change it to red later. On my phone at the moment on lunch checking in.

It would have been nice of FC to tell me that. Your claim only seems wolfy if you're fishing, so if FC says he told you my role, then I'll switch to ImperatorV. I'd rather pursue unknowns before digging into claims since I don't trust our collective ability to sort out lies from general game weirdness at this point.

- - - Updated - - -

@Libro, RE: vote shenanigans...my best guess is that Ramsus was a double voter, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was another role that cancels out people's votes foating around.

[Xihirli]

ImperatorV to get everyone off Meta - Murska wants Meta dead. We shouldn't.

[Murska]

ImperatorV to get everyone off Meta - Murska wants Meta dead. We shouldn't.

Is this supposed to sound causal? Because it does.

[Meta]

Very vague.

Believe it or not, I don't often role claim when I'm a seer. That choice was taken from me this game, however.

[Xihirli]

Is this supposed to sound causal? Because it does.

causal (ˈkɔːzəl)
adj
1. acting as or being a cause
2. stating, involving, or implying a cause: the causal part of the argument.
3. (Philosophy) philosophy (of a theory) explaining a phenomenon or analysing a concept in terms of some causal relation

I think the cause of the Meta wagon is too many people trusting a neutral role whose goals have demonstrably gone against town's priorities.
If that felt too implied then I'm sorry. I'll state it more clearly here.

[Murska]

Believe it or not, I don't often role claim when I'm a seer. That choice was taken from me this game, however.

I bet you do it even less as a Devil.

Roleclaim is one of the major stages of an individual's game progression. I do have games where I don't claim, though rarely, but generally it's something that signifies a change from early to midgame in attitudes.

- - - Updated - - -

causal (ˈkɔːzəl)
adj
1. acting as or being a cause
2. stating, involving, or implying a cause: the causal part of the argument.
3. (Philosophy) philosophy (of a theory) explaining a phenomenon or analysing a concept in terms of some causal relation

I think the cause of the Meta wagon is too many people trusting a neutral role whose goals have demonstrably gone against town's priorities.
If that felt too implied then I'm sorry. I'll state it more clearly here.

Yeah, I'm just against the implication that you should not want Meta dead because I want him dead. You should want him dead because he's probably a Duck, or maybe not want him dead because he has convinced you he is not a Duck, or possibly not want him dead because you're a Duck, but my opinion of him should not be any primary factor beyond the facts offered (the scry and behavioural analysis), which should be evaluated independently.

[Xihirli]

You have ulterior motives for wanting Meta dead.
Those ulterior motives have already cost the village a wolf and could soon claim a power-role if we trust you again.
Bottom line: I don't trust a word you say on this matter.

[Kish]

I agree with Xihirli, and will switch to ImperatorV if it looks like it's that or let Meta be lynched.

*Updated*

With the added note that I want Meta, today, not-lynched because someone who--all the evidence points to--does not have Town's best interests at heart wants him lynched. It's a better reason than has been offered to kill them. If you believe otherwise, particularly if your otherwise-belief comes from someone who name begins with M and ends with urska, please check that reason to see if it's actually true before you act on it. Note that Murska has now claimed that his remaining win condition is "use each of his abilities" and has been up-front about having no interest in helping anyone else; he has no reason to care about anything but staying alive until he can do so, and being seen as a dangerous enemy by the ducks is utterly unconducive to that goal.

[Grand Arbiter]

I do not believe ImperatorV is a good replacement choice for either Meta or Murska. They claimed upthread as some type of hunting tool with a name that escapes me.

- - - Updated - - -

Found it, name is "duck-o-matic".

[norman250]

I agree with Xihirli, and will switch to ImperatorV if it looks like it's that or let Meta be lynched.

*Updated*

With the added note that I want Meta, today, not-lynched because someone who--all the evidence points to--does not have Town's best interests at heart wants him lynched. It's a better reason than has been offered to kill them. If you believe otherwise, particularly if your otherwise-belief comes from someone who name begins with M and ends with urska, please check that reason to see if it's actually true before you act on it. Note that Murska has now claimed that his remaining win condition is "use each of his abilities" and has been up-front about having no interest in helping anyone else; he has no reason to care about anything but staying alive until he can do so, and being seen as a dangerous enemy by the ducks is utterly unconducive to that goal.

Exactly, Murska has already admitted that he needed to kill Flat-foot, and that FF was an enemy to HIM, which is not the same thing as an enemy to town. Murska also needs to use the powers, and thus would likely say whatever he feels will prevent town from lynching him.

[Pelican]

I do not believe ImperatorV is a good replacement choice for either Meta or Murska. They claimed upthread as some type of hunting tool with a name that escapes me.

- - - Updated - - -

Found it, name is "duck-o-matic".

Forgot about the claim. In that case, next target is Elenna.

[Xihirli]

Yes. I didn't want to lynch Imp anyway, it's just that Meta is claiming seer.

Elenna has been very quiet this game.

[Kish]

Target:	Voters:	Current Count:
Elenna	Pelican, Xihirli	2
Meta	Murska, Black Socks, Lex-Kat, ImperatorV, Supagoof	5
Murska	Kish, Elenna, Aventine, Disc Lorde, norman250	5
No One	Fortuna, Libro, Deathslayer7, BasketOfPuppies, Fleeing Coward, Vesth, Elodin, Meta	8

If you're under "no one," you might want to change that. Particularly if you're both under "no one" and the target of one of the leading wagons--Meta.

[Meta]

I've been avoiding big wagons because Beast, especially as I'm an outed Seer now. I believe day ends in ~16 hours and I'll vote before then.

[Murska]

Well, it's also the network claiming Meta is suspicious, and his claim is extremely suspicious in timing and content.

[Xihirli]

Well, it's also the network claiming Meta is suspicious, and his claim is extremely suspicious in timing and content.

I don't trust the network. I was part of the network.

[norman250]

Besides Lex, the only network member I know of (FC,) hasn't posted yet. And Lex's arguments were based on Meta's scries being "listening" based. Unless you have other knowledge that I'm not privy to (entirely possible), it hardly looks like a network conclusion.

[Kish]

Also, what TheNetwork, by which I mean Lex-Kat, indicated was suspicious was Meta's claimed role name not going with the description of hearing rather than smelling; she already knew he was claiming Seer.

Edit: norman250's role is as a ninja. Ninjas are probably hunters, right? ...nah, they could totally be a ninja duck.

[norman250]

I'm not a ninja.
I have no issue role claiming, and in fact, will do so, because it doesn't matter now, as I am essentially vanilla villager now, and this information can't hurt town, so, open knowledge is open knowledge.
I was/am the EMT, my power was that I could bring back one player in the game.
Guess who I brought back?
What else do I know? That's about it. My role PM did not confirm or deny if the brought back player would be the same alignment, but I have no reason to suspect that Duck999 made it so that my target would swap alignments.
I PM'd Lex after I brought her back, explaining that I had done so, and that if she was the last mason and thus no one remained to call out FC if he was being dishonest about speaking with masons (something which Penguinator suggested was possible earlier this thread), that she should call out FC.
Instead, she PM'd FC telling him what I had told her, and FC replied to me in her stead, explaining he had a seer contact that scried me as town, meaning Lex was likely brought back town, baring any hijinks on Duck's part.
That's literally my entire involvement with the network so far, I know no private information that isn't already public record.