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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    I recently made a Bard NPC who has an amazing performance check, and summons an unseen servant (his drummer) which helps him put on a concert to captivate his audiences. The DC to break this effect is almost impossible since the Bard uses pyrotechnics and plays really good music. so my question is...

    Can a bards music affect a Beholder Beast?

    Thanks guys.

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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    There is nothing listed in the Beholder description that would preclude them from being immune to music effects. It is worth noting though that the Fascinate performance is a spell-like ability and if the Beholder is in range and looks at the Bard with it's central eye, the effect would be suppressed.
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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    There is nothing listed in the Beholder description that would preclude them from being immune to music effects. It is worth noting though that the Fascinate performance is a spell-like ability and if the Beholder is in range and looks at the Bard with it's central eye, the effect would be suppressed.
    The eye can eliminate magical effects but not the music. and the eye effect is a cone. the music would pass around the beholders eye and go into its ears. If it has ears.

    There's no way a beholders eye effect can eliminate the effects of sound vibrations in the air. yes it suppresses magic at wherever its eye points. but the music will travel beyond its reach.
    Last edited by trikkydik; 2016-06-24 at 06:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by trikkydik View Post
    That is actually untrue because the bards ability is his music. it doesnt require casting and is not treated as spell casting. he must captivate an audience first, THEN cast mind affecting spells.

    The book does NOT classify a bards music as a SPELL.

    So the question is again... Are Beholders deaf?
    Given that nothing indicates they are, and can talk, I'd be included to say no.

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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Yes they can hear, they can communicate verbally as well as telepathically, which would be both difficult and useless if they were deaf.
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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beleriphon View Post
    Given that nothing indicates they are, and can talk, I'd be included to say no.
    That's a good point, thank you. I wish someone who works for WOTC would just read this and give me a perfect answer lol.

    I mean it has no ears, but it does speak languages.

    Also, a beholder cant hit a spell with its magic nullifying eye if it doesn't know where the music is coming from.

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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    That was such a quick response, Thanks guys.

    Have any tips on effectively holding a post that is under attack by a heard of over 20 beholder beasts? (And way more other monsters, but lets talk about beholders specifically here)

    Thanks,

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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by trikkydik View Post
    The eye can eliminate magical effects but not the music. and the eye effect is a cone. the music would pass around the beholders eye and go into its ears. If it has ears.

    There's no way a beholders eye effect can eliminate the effects of sound vibrations in the air. yes it suppresses magic at wherever its eye points. but the music will travel beyond its reach.
    When you say he is using his music, you are referring to Fascinate, correct? That ability is listed as (Sp), which makes it a spell-like ability. Anti-Magic Field is the effect that the central eye duplicates, which blocks all spells, SLAs and supernatural abilities. Also as to your comment about not knowing where the effect originates, Fascinate requires targets to be able to see and hear the Bard.

    For the sake of answering the question, no Beholders don't have ears. According the Lords of Madness, the book concerning aberrations, they state on pg 38 "Beholders typically have a dozen small tympanic membranes at almost random spots across their bodies; each is merely an inch in diameter and impossible to see except upon the closest examination." So no ears in the sense we picture them, but they can hear just fine.
    Last edited by Waker; 2016-06-24 at 06:51 PM.
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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    When you say he is using his music, you are referring to Fascinate, correct? That ability is listed as (Sp), which makes it a spell-like ability. Anti-Magic Field is the effect that the central eye duplicates, which blocks all spells, SLAs and supernatural abilities. Also as to your comment about not knowing where the effect originates, Fascinate requires targets to be able to see and hear the Bard.

    For the sake of answering the question, no Beholders don't have ears. According the Lords of Madness, the book concerning aberrations, they state on pg 38 "Beholders typically have a dozen small tympanic membranes at almost random spots across their bodies; each is merely an inch in diameter and impossible to see except upon the closest examination." So no ears in the sense we picture them, but they can hear just fine.
    Waker seems to know his stuff. This is good. Yeah i tried to edit my first post, (once i looked back over the fascinate ability.)

    What if the bard can see the beholder through a mirror, the beholder can see him through the mirror, but the beholders eye isn't pointed directly at the bard? Wouldn't the music eventually reach the beholder's ears?

    And also, wouldn't you say the bards ability is bolstered if he is able to naturally "amplify" the loudness of his music?

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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by trikkydik View Post
    What if the bard can see the beholder through a mirror, the beholder can see him through the mirror, but the beholders eye isn't pointed directly at the bard? Wouldn't the music eventually reach the beholder's ears?

    And also, wouldn't you say the bards ability is bolstered if he is able to naturally "amplify" the loudness of his music?
    I would allow the mirror trick I work were I the DM, provided that the Bard was still within 90ft of the Beholder. RAW-wise though, I have no idea on the ruling of that.
    Loudness isn't really a factor for the effectiveness of the song. At most I would say the volume would only counteract any other noises that might be applying a circumstance penalty to the Performance check.
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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    I would allow the mirror trick I work were I the DM, provided that the Bard was still within 90ft of the Beholder. RAW-wise though, I have no idea on the ruling of that.
    Loudness isn't really a factor for the effectiveness of the song. At most I would say the volume would only counteract any other noises that might be applying a circumstance penalty to the Performance check.
    i guess the extra boost in sound would be to help rogues make sneak attacks on captivated beholders. Whether youre a DM or a PC you have good knowledge, thank you for that.

    Im the DM and ive kind of thrown my PC's into a precarious position and im trying to think of ways in which they can survive this encounter.

    Have you ever had to fight several beholders at once before? if yes, what did you do? if no, what would you do if you had to fight more than 20 beholders? (Setting is at a home base, with many places to hide.)
    Last edited by trikkydik; 2016-06-24 at 07:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by trikkydik View Post
    Have you ever had to fight several beholders at once before? if yes, what did you do? if no, what would you do if you had to fight more than 20 beholders? (Setting is at a home base, with many places to hide.)
    Nope, can't say I've ever been in that situation before. Generally speaking, Beholders are highly individualist beings that hate being around other Beholders. What exactly is motivating them to work together like that? The players may be able to exploit the potential discord amongst the Beholders.
    Anyways, you will need to pay close attention to the direction that each Beholder is facing. Their anti-magic eye can cancel out the effects of their own eye stalk attacks, so if the party plays it right they can try to hide between or in areas of anti-magic to avoid being bombarded by rays of disintegration. Despite their size, Beholders are pretty weak, the party could try to use more mundane methods of countering them like using nets or grapples. If anyone has access to wind magic, they could try to buffet the Beholders around, provided they can stay out of sight.

    Like I said, not much experience with Beholders, so good luck with that.
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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Nope, can't say I've ever been in that situation before. Generally speaking, Beholders are highly individualist beings that hate being around other Beholders. What exactly is motivating them to work together like that? The players may be able to exploit the potential discord amongst the Beholders.
    Anyways, you will need to pay close attention to the direction that each Beholder is facing. Their anti-magic eye can cancel out the effects of their own eye stalk attacks, so if the party plays it right they can try to hide between or in areas of anti-magic to avoid being bombarded by rays of disintegration. Despite their size, Beholders are pretty weak, the party could try to use more mundane methods of countering them like using nets or grapples. If anyone has access to wind magic, they could try to buffet the Beholders around, provided they can stay out of sight.

    Like I said, not much experience with Beholders, so good luck with that.

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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Nope, can't say I've ever been in that situation before. Generally speaking, Beholders are highly individualist beings that hate being around other Beholders. What exactly is motivating them to work together like that? The players may be able to exploit the potential discord amongst the Beholders.
    Anyways, you will need to pay close attention to the direction that each Beholder is facing. Their anti-magic eye can cancel out the effects of their own eye stalk attacks, so if the party plays it right they can try to hide between or in areas of anti-magic to avoid being bombarded by rays of disintegration. Despite their size, Beholders are pretty weak, the party could try to use more mundane methods of countering them like using nets or grapples. If anyone has access to wind magic, they could try to buffet the Beholders around, provided they can stay out of sight.

    Like I said, not much experience with Beholders, so good luck with that.


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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by trikkydik View Post
    What if the bard can see the beholder through a mirror, the beholder can see him through the mirror, but the beholders eye isn't pointed directly at the bard? Wouldn't the music eventually reach the beholder's ears?
    You likely don't even need to get that fancy with things. The beholder's anti-magic eye ability likely has a range, probably 30' or 60'. Bardic Music, including the Fascinate ability, doesn't have a range limit. So if the beholder notices the bard from outside the anti-magic eye's range, then it can be fascinated without a problem. In D&D3e, anti-magic does not prevent magic effects from getting past the affected zone, and since the beholder is not affected by the anti-magic cone, it can still be affected by the Bardic Music.

    Of course, a DM might be fair in saying that, say, if the anti-magic cone is aimed at a narrow opening which is the only way for sound to enter the chamber, then it might stop the Bardic Music effect. (by "neutralizing the magic sound waves" if you prefer)
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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    You likely don't even need to get that fancy with things. The beholder's anti-magic eye ability likely has a range, probably 30' or 60'. Bardic Music, including the Fascinate ability, doesn't have a range limit. So if the beholder notices the bard from outside the anti-magic eye's range, then it can be fascinated without a problem. In D&D3e, anti-magic does not prevent magic effects from getting past the affected zone, and since the beholder is not affected by the anti-magic cone, it can still be affected by the Bardic Music.

    Of course, a DM might be fair in saying that, say, if the anti-magic cone is aimed at a narrow opening which is the only way for sound to enter the chamber, then it might stop the Bardic Music effect. (by "neutralizing the magic sound waves" if you prefer)
    The range for a Beholder's anti-magic cone is 150ft (pg 27 MM). The range for a Bard's Fascinate ability is 90ft (pg 29 PHB).
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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Nope, can't say I've ever been in that situation before. Generally speaking, Beholders are highly individualist beings that hate being around other Beholders. What exactly is motivating them to work together like that? The players may be able to exploit the potential discord amongst the Beholders.
    Anyways, you will need to pay close attention to the direction that each Beholder is facing. Their anti-magic eye can cancel out the effects of their own eye stalk attacks, so if the party plays it right they can try to hide between or in areas of anti-magic to avoid being bombarded by rays of disintegration. Despite their size, Beholders are pretty weak, the party could try to use more mundane methods of countering them like using nets or grapples. If anyone has access to wind magic, they could try to buffet the Beholders around, provided they can stay out of sight.
    It's arguably even worse than that -- a beholder in another beholder's active eye cone can't use any of its eye rays and, if their 20' flight speed is a magical effect, as it seems to be, they also fall to the ground and can't move, making even their wimpy bite useless.

    Even the ones that are still flying and using eye rays can't easily *tell* which party members might be in the anti magic field of another beholder, so they'll waste many of their attacks. And then you have to try to figure out whether one anti-magic field cancels another... It's just chaos.

    Fortunately (for you and the beholders) they can decide whether or not their anti-magic cones are active. I'd say if there are more than two beholders, they're probably going to shut off their eye cones (unless a specific use comes up) -- and count on their six eye rays per beholder per round to get the job done. (I hope your party has a Paladin and a Bless spell and some inspiration dice -- that's a *lot* of saves.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Generally speaking, Beholders are highly individualist beings that hate being around other Beholders.
    Of course, if you can get the beholders to turn against each other, I love the image of two powerful Eye Tyrants lying on the ground glaring at each other, neither willing to be the first to shut off their antimagic cone.


    Edit: Oh. Crap. Just realized, if your bard is doing Fascinate, you're playing 3.5. I had a whole list of ways the 5e bard NPC could help the party make saving throws -- inspiration dice, Bless, Countercharm. But none of those work in 3.5e. You can't even get the bardic inspiration to boost saving throws until 15th level, and then it's just one party member.

    Maybe your best bet to help the party is to let the beholders be too arrogant and individualistic to work together -- all of them keep their anti-magic cones active, so the party is pretty much always in anti-magic, but random beholders keep falling to the ground and the party is immune to rays. The main effect of the beholders would be to make the party fight the *other* monsters drawn by the beacon without any of their magic -- no magic items, no spells, no magical effects. The beholders themselves wouldn't get really dangerous until there were only a few left and their eye rays start to come into play.

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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Actually, beholder flight isn't magical - they hover about with the use of organs filled with lighter-than-air fluids.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    Actually, beholder flight isn't magical - they hover about with the use of organs filled with lighter-than-air fluids.
    I acknowledge that D&D doesn't have to make physical sense. But this one is so nonsensical that it makes me want to bang my forehead into things.

    Imagine the Beholder is a 10' sphere. Imagine it's entirely filled with hydrogen or helium. It displaces about 40 pounds of air. Which is fine if it's covered in a thin skin of aluminized mylar, and will burst with 1 hp of slashing or piercing damage. But it's not. It's a hundred square feet of tough inch-thick hide. (Estimated weight: 36 lbs.) Plus ten big thick eyestalks (at least a few pounds each). All those teeth. That giant anti-magic eye. And the whole inside is *not* just gas -- it can open its mouth (that's space filled with normal air) and it's got a brain and a digestive system in there. And muscles to move the eye stalks and mouth. It's got to be at least a hundred pounds, all told, of fleshy bits.

    So it can't even float without magic. But if it could, the eyestalks would clearly dangle downward, unless he's got a counterweight in his chin. Perhaps the teeth and jaw are even heavier than I thought? And how is he propelling himself at 20' per round? Blowing air through tiny holes? The muscles and plumbing to do that will add still more weight. And how is he lunging fast enough to bite someone?

    But, yes. I acknowledge that in D&D it's apparently possible for dragons to fly by flapping their wings and 26' tall bipeds (Storm Giants) to run and jump (unlike elephants). So maybe an incredibly magical creature doesn't use magic to fly, but instead fills internal bladders with biologically-generated helium. D&D physics is weird.

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    Default Re: Do Beholder Beasts Have ears?

    Quote Originally Posted by ClintACK View Post
    But, yes. I acknowledge that in D&D it's apparently possible for dragons to fly by flapping their wings and 26' tall bipeds (Storm Giants) to run and jump (unlike elephants). So maybe an incredibly magical creature doesn't use magic to fly, but instead fills internal bladders with biologically-generated helium. D&D physics is weird.
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    A beholder is an aberration. Its very existence is a massive middle finger to physics. Considering other aberrations are psionic, parasitic tadpoles, mutagenic snot-clad atheist fish and avaricious, bearded spider-worms, I think a floating, xenophobic stalk-eyed eyeball fits right in.

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    Shhhhh, shhhhhh. Be calm, inhale the beholder's wacky float gas and stop worrying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    Actually, beholder flight isn't magical - they hover about with the use of organs filled with lighter-than-air fluids.
    Poke a beholder with a sharp needle, and watch it deflate with a fffffffffffffffffffffff while it flies around like a popped balloon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regitnui View Post
    Its very existence is a massive middle finger to physics.
    I thought the entire DnD world is a massive Bugsby's Expressive Single Digit to physics!

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    Quote Originally Posted by goto124 View Post
    I thought the entire DnD world is a massive Bugsby's Expressive Single Digit to physics!
    I invoke Arthur C Clarke! Magic and physics can get along in the same pool, but aberrations are a modified mage hand to both. A beholder shouldn't work, but it does. That's what makes it an aberration. Dragons have powerful magic abilities, elemental breath and massive wings with which to fly. Beholders just obnoxiously float there despite anything magic or physics does to stop them, almost as if they're supported in a dimension for which the humanoid mind just isn't equipped to see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by goto124 View Post
    Poke a beholder with a sharp needle, and watch it deflate with a fffffffffffffffffffffff while it flies around like a popped balloon.
    Quote Originally Posted by goto124 View Post
    I thought the entire DnD world is a massive Bugsby's Expressive Single Digit to physics!
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    The Giant himself takes credit for the spell, he started it first (jump to the very last panel).

    But yes, feel free to sig me
    Last edited by goto124; 2016-06-26 at 05:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regitnui View Post
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    Yes, they can hear - their hearing is as good as ours (Lords of Madness.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Regitnui View Post
    I invoke Arthur C Clarke! Magic and physics can get along in the same pool, but aberrations are a modified mage hand to both. A beholder shouldn't work, but it does. That's what makes it an aberration. Dragons have powerful magic abilities, elemental breath and massive wings with which to fly. Beholders just obnoxiously float there despite anything magic or physics does to stop them, almost as if they're supported in a dimension for which the humanoid mind just isn't equipped to see.
    I like this explanation for any aberration weirdness.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

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