A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    UristMcRandom's Avatar

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    Default New Spell: Placebo [PEACH]

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    Based on this post.

    I made this a 6th-level spell because it provides a similar effect to Power Word Heal, which is a 9th-level spell, but Placebo is held back by the limitations of an illusion - namely that it only lasts as long as the caster concentrates on it and that it becomes useless if the target disbelieves it. Don't question the medical implications of surviving fatal wounds simply because you don't believe that you're injured enough to die, I'm not exactly aiming to be grounded in realism here. My main concern for balance is that it may pair too well with Big Stupid Fighters and Barbarians, and it actually provides more incentive to play a stupid martial character, since the party Bard can deal out an effective full heal for as long as the martial character in question is too dumb to believe that they haven't been healed of all their injuries.


    Placebo
    6th-level enchantment
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Touch
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
    Class: Bard

    You cast an elaborate illusion over a creature so that they appear to be healed of their injuries. The creature you touched must make an Intelligence saving throw. If the target succeeds on this saving throw, the spell fails.

    On a failed save, the target believe that they have regained all of their hitpoints, allowing them to continue moving and taking actions as though they were at full health. They must repeat this saving throw each time they take damage as long as the spell is active. If their actual hit point total has been reduced to 0 or below, they make the saving throw with advantage, but do not begin making death saving throws unless they succeed at the Intelligence saving throw to disbelieve the illusion. If the target takes enough damage to reduce their health to their negative hit point total, then they die immediately. If the target takes enough damage to reduce the hit point total that they believe they have to 0, they fall unconscious and begin making death saving throws as normal.

    This spell fails automatically if you cast it on yourself.
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    Default Re: New Spell: Placebo [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by UristMcRandom View Post
    If their actual hit point total has been reduced to 0 or below
    Technically, your HP can't go below 0 in 5e - it gets fixed at 0 if it would go below. It's a minor point, overall, but given this spell's mechanic, it's important.

    More broadly, what is this spell for? Is it supposed to be a dicey way for stupid fighters to continue acting at 0HP? Is it supposed to be a way to prevent cowardly enemies from fleeing when they get low on HP? I'm not really sure I understand what you're going for...
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    Default Re: New Spell: Placebo [PEACH]

    The issue with this spell is that an NPC you're trying to kill isn't going to believe that you healed them, but using it on a friendly N/PC only works once at which point they would likely know.

    To discuss Prawns notes I think it's just a matter of rewording the spell so that it fits the mechanics.

    Hopefully this will do;
    On a failed save, the target believe that they have regained all of their hit points, allowing them to continue moving and taking actions as though they were at full health. They must repeat this saving throw each time they take damage as long as the spell is active. If their actual hit point total has been reduced to 0 or below, they make the saving throw with advantage, but do not begin making death saving throws unless they succeed at the Intelligence saving throw to disbelieve the illusion. If the target takes enough damage that would reduce their health from maximum to 0 they fall unconscious and begin making death saving throws as normal. However if this happens when they are at 0 hit points then they die immediately.

    Do remember that damage when at 0 doesn't stack towards a maximum negative hit points amount, either a single amount does it or no damage does.
    Last edited by Final Hyena; 2016-06-30 at 10:58 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Default Re: New Spell: Placebo [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    Technically, your HP can't go below 0 in 5e - it gets fixed at 0 if it would go below. It's a minor point, overall, but given this spell's mechanic, it's important.

    More broadly, what is this spell for? Is it supposed to be a dicey way for stupid fighters to continue acting at 0HP? Is it supposed to be a way to prevent cowardly enemies from fleeing when they get low on HP? I'm not really sure I understand what you're going for...
    Honestly, I'm not really sure myself. And that's 90% of the spell's problems right there. I knew I wanted to create a spell that gives an illusion of healing, but that's about it, and it shows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Hyena View Post
    The issue with this spell is that an NPC you're trying to kill isn't going to believe that you healed them, but using it on a friendly N/PC only works once at which point they would likely know.

    To discuss Prawns notes I think it's just a matter of rewording the spell so that it fits the mechanics.

    Hopefully this will do;
    On a failed save, the target believe that they have regained all of their hit points, allowing them to continue moving and taking actions as though they were at full health. They must repeat this saving throw each time they take damage as long as the spell is active. If their actual hit point total has been reduced to 0 or below, they make the saving throw with advantage, but do not begin making death saving throws unless they succeed at the Intelligence saving throw to disbelieve the illusion. If the target takes enough damage that would reduce their health from maximum to 0 they fall unconscious and begin making death saving throws as normal. However if this happens when they are at 0 hit points then they die immediately.

    Do remember that damage when at 0 doesn't stack towards a maximum negative hit points amount, either a single amount does it or no damage does.
    I appreciate the help with making the spell work as-is, but at this point I'm probably going to have to rewrite it from scratch once I nail my concept down a little better. Thank you, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by OctoberRaven View Post
    "It's a fireball. It's basically a magic hand grenade."
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: New Spell: Placebo [PEACH]

    Just a thought: wouldn't it better if the spell was a reaction that you take when someone regains HP through a healing spell or a potion? The spell would then negate the healing, leaving the target oblivious of its effect.

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    Default Re: New Spell: Placebo [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaphedo View Post
    Just a thought: wouldn't it better if the spell was a reaction that you take when someone regains HP through a healing spell or a potion? The spell would then negate the healing, leaving the target oblivious of its effect.
    The problem is that, largely, counterspell is far more useful because it can be applied to more situations.

    If I wanted to have a spell that did this effect, I would add this addendum to Counterspell:

    At Higher Levels. If you cast this spell at one level higher, you can create an illusion of the spell that was cast. Enemies that that interact with the spell must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or feel as though they were effected by the spell that was cast.


    On the note of the Placebo spell...

    I think that this is somewhat similar autohypnosis/hypnosis. You convince the creature that they are stronger/tougher/healthier than they truly are.

    Here's a mock-up:

    Placebo
    6th-level enchantment
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Touch
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes

    You cast an enchantment on a willing creature, making them believe that they have regained their health, strength, and vigor. This belief is enough to, for a short time, waylay their ailments.

    For the duration the creature is no longer affected by the frightened or poisoned conditions, nor do they suffer from the effects of any disease. They are immune to poison damage.

    In addition, if they fall to 0 hit points they can choose to drop to 1 hit point instead. They may only do so once during the duration of this spell.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: New Spell: Placebo [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by zeek0 View Post
    The problem is that, largely, counterspell is far more useful because it can be applied to more situations.

    If I wanted to have a spell that did this effect, I would add this addendum to Counterspell:

    At Higher Levels. If you cast this spell at one level higher, you can create an illusion of the spell that was cast. Enemies that that interact with the spell must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or feel as though they were effected by the spell that was cast.
    I was thinking of something on the lines of

    Counterheal
    3rd-level abjuration

    Casting Time: 1 reaction, which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you regaining hit points
    Range: 60 feet
    Components: S
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You disrupt a creature in the process of regaining lost hit points. The target must make an Intelligence saving throw. On a failure, you deny 4d8 + you ability modifier hit points from being healed to the target and the target is oblivious of this loss of hit points. On a failure, you deny half as much hit points and the target knows of your disruption.

    At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the hit points negated increase by 1d8 for each spell level above 3rd.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeek0 View Post
    The problem is that, largely, counterspell is far more useful because it can be applied to more situations.
    Placebo
    6th-level enchantment
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Touch
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes

    You cast an enchantment on a willing creature, making them believe that they have regained their health, strength, and vigor. This belief is enough to, for a short time, waylay their ailments.

    For the duration the creature is no longer affected by the frightened or poisoned conditions, nor do they suffer from the effects of any disease. They are immune to poison damage.

    In addition, if they fall to 0 hit points they can choose to drop to 1 hit point instead. They may only do so once during the duration of this spell.
    That's a feasible fix, although worthless as a 6th-level spell. It's a way less powerful combination of death ward and greater restoration, with poison immunity for some reason (how does hypnosis make you completely impervious to acid poisons?). I'd change the immunity into resistance, remove the concentration and lower the level to a 2nd level spell.

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