Spell: Poison Breath

[Goober4473]

I'm starting to put together some new poison spells for green dragon sorcerers, and this is my first thought. It seems fairly balanced, compared to the 2nd level Blindness/Deafness or Hold Person. At 3rd level, it also poisons the target and doesn't require concentration, and can drop any creature type unconscious, but damage also wakes the target up in that case. Alternatively, not too high damage over time.

Am I missing anything here, balance-wise?

Poison Breath
Classes: Druid, Ranger, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard
3rd-level conjuration
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 10 feet
Components: V, S, M (a glass vile)
Duration: 1 minute

You breath a puff of inhaled poison at a creature within range. The target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the target is poisoned, and suffers one of the following effects. At the end of each of its turns, the creature can make another Constitution saving throw. On a success, the effect ends for the target. A creature that does not breath cannot be affected, but a creature cannot hold its breath to avoid this spell.

Burnt Othur Fumes. The target takes 2d6 poison damage at the start of each of its turns while poisoned by this spell.

Essence of Ether. The creature is unconscious while poisoned by this spell. It wakes up if it takes damage or if another creature takes an action to shake it awake.

Malice. The target is blinded while poisoned by this spell.

[Final Hyena]

Burnt Othur Fumes. The target takes 2d6 poison damage at the start of each of its turns while poisoned by this spell.

Essence of Ether. The creature is unconscious while poisoned by this spell. It wakes up if it takes damage or if another creature takes an action to shake it awake.

So on your turn you take poison damage and wake up. Was that intentional?

[DracoKnight]

So on your turn you take poison damage and wake up. Was that intentional?

The target only suffers ONE of the following effects.

[Final Hyena]

The target only suffers ONE of the following effects.

That changes things.

I think Burnt Othur Fumes needs higher damage, as is it's fairly comparable to ray of sickness.

[Goober4473]

I think Burnt Othur Fumes needs higher damage, as is it's fairly comparable to ray of sickness.

It does last a minute rather than 1 round, dealing up to 20d6 damage if the target fails 10 Con saves, but on average, it's not going to last that long.

Given that the spell has two other options and also poisons the target, how much damage would be fair?

[Final Hyena]

It's not terribly strong as is.

Spoiler: Boring maths.

Show

If we go with an easy (math wise) 50% save chance then you currently have;
50% no affect
25% 7 (1.75) poison & 1 (0.25) rounds poisoned
12.5% 14 (1.75) poison & 2 (0.25) rounds poisoned
6.25% 21 (1.3125) poison & 3 (0.1875) rounds poisoned
3.125% 28 (0.875) poison & 4 (0.125)rounds poisoned
1.5625% 35 (0.546875) poison & 5 (0.078125) rounds poisoned
Where I stop because I'm bored.
Average damage; 6.234375 (So a rough 7).
Average poisoned duration 0.890625 (So a rough 1).

And then you factor that poisoned condition/damage immunity/resistance are fairly common.

Perhaps doubling the damage to 4d6 would do.

Edit; another thing to consider is that Essence of Ether is very strong against single big enemies as you can take them out and then bind them. Maybe a current hit point limit like other sleep spell is needed?

Edit 2; Malice is just blindness/deafness (as blindness and poisoned for the most part overlap) meaning it's a higher level slot for not much extra. Given that immunity to the poisoned condition means the affect fails makes it arguably weaker.

[Goober4473]

It's not terribly strong as is.

Spoiler: Boring maths.

Show

If we go with an easy (math wise) 50% save chance then you currently have;
50% no affect
25% 7 (1.75) poison & 1 (0.25) rounds poisoned
12.5% 14 (1.75) poison & 2 (0.25) rounds poisoned
6.25% 21 (1.3125) poison & 3 (0.1875) rounds poisoned
3.125% 28 (0.875) poison & 4 (0.125)rounds poisoned
1.5625% 35 (0.546875) poison & 5 (0.078125) rounds poisoned
Where I stop because I'm bored.
Average damage; 6.234375 (So a rough 7).
Average poisoned duration 0.890625 (So a rough 1).

And then you factor that poisoned condition/damage immunity/resistance are fairly common.

Perhaps doubling the damage to 4d6 would do.

Edit; another thing to consider is that Essence of Ether is very strong against single big enemies as you can take them out and then bind them. Maybe a current hit point limit like other sleep spell is needed?

Edit 2; Malice is just blindness/deafness (as blindness and poisoned for the most part overlap) meaning it's a higher level slot for not much extra. Given that immunity to the poisoned condition means the affect fails makes it arguably weaker.

I think 4d6 sounds fair. Any other opinions there?

For Essence of Ether, it's comparable to Hold Person/Monster, but damage or an action breaks it and it doesn't work on poison immune creatures. But it's not concentration, which is pretty potent.

For Malice, it's not concentration, which gives it a big advantage over Blindness/Deafness.

[JBPuffin]

Malice is just blindness/deafness (as blindness and poisoned for the most part overlap) meaning it's a higher level slot for not much extra. Given that immunity to the poisoned condition means the affect fails makes it arguably weaker.

Is there anything to be said for having multiple options, kinda like how in Magic: the Gathering modal cards' options are weaker individually (and Abzan Charm broke Standard for a year or two)? I honestly don't know, so I'm hoping for some curiosity indulgence .

4d6 is fair.

[Final Hyena]

For Essence of Ether, it's comparable to Hold Person/Monster, but damage or an action breaks it and it doesn't work on poison immune creatures. But it's not concentration, which is pretty potent.

Hold person is limited by type, hold monster is a 5th slot.
This is a 3rd level spell that can knock out most creatures allowing a party to bind a single creature with ease.

For Malice, it's not concentration, which gives it a big advantage over Blindness/Deafness.

Blindness/deafness is not concentration.

Is there anything to be said for having multiple options, kinda like how in Magic: the Gathering modal cards' options are weaker individually (and Abzan Charm broke Standard for a year or two)? I honestly don't know, so I'm hoping for some curiosity indulgence .

At this level blindness/deafness affects two people this affects one person.