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  1. - Top - End - #301
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbI8T37eEvU&t=0s

    New Nurgle stuff! And what looks like a Stormcast Hero?

    Nurgle book looks like it'll line up with Death Guard, which makes sense because of the probable overlap. Hopefully this means we get the Stormcast/Imperium/Chaos releases out of the way and 40k can get some Xenos and AoS can get some other races (Death I think, would not be surprised with a Deathrattle book).

  2. - Top - End - #302
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Finally got the Stormcast battletome, since I am thinking of splitting the new Blightwar box with someone at my FLGS.

    After looking through stuff, I have three possible lists that seem interesting. Right now I am leaning towards the one built around the hammer strike force, though the Hammers of Sigmar seem interesting as well. And the third list is what I was thinking of to just include lots of units without any battalions.

    Hammertime!:
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    Battalion: Hammerstike Brotherhood
    6 Hammer Prosecutors
    5 Protectors
    5 Decimators

    Lord Celestant (G), Staunch Defender, Obsidian Blade
    Knight-Venator, Luckstone
    Celestant Prime

    5 Liberators
    5 Liberators
    5 Judicators

    2 Fulminators


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    Hammers of Sigmar:
    Thunderhead Brotherhood:
    4 x 5 Liberators
    2 x 5 Judicators

    Lord-Celestant, Obsidian Blade
    Knight-Venator, (G) Consummate Commander, Luckstone
    Celestant-Prime

    2 Fulminators
    Possibly one more unit, depending on how much the battalions cost-I assumed together they were 400 since they were 200 before, and it seems like battalions all went up 100 points in the new generals handbook.


    All the units!:
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    Lord-Celestant (G) Staunch Defender
    Knight-Venator, Luckstone
    Celestant Prime

    2 x 5 Liberators
    5 Judicators

    2 Fulminators
    3 Javalin Prosecutors
    3 Vanguard Palladors
    5 Vanguard-Hunters
    3 Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike crossbows
    5 Protectors


    The first two lists each only require me to get one box (prosecutors or liberators respectively) while the third list would use the stuff from Blightwar, which was what got me back on a sigmar kick. Also, if it does include points for Neave, I will probably find a way to fit her into my list. Decisions decisions.

    Though it is not super urgent, since my local store will be doing a path to glory campaign, and I already have the stuff I need for that. (and I can only get one game in per week, generally, so the campaign will supersede any bigger games)

  3. - Top - End - #303
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    I think any of them are fine. Personally I find Hammerstrike to be a bit expensive to run since they bumped up costs on Javelin Prosecutors and the Battalion itself, but it's still very strong.

    The new box comes with points for Neave and has a Battalion for all the units inside, which is pretty good. If you want to expand, I would recommend checking out some more Vanguard units, but what you have is pretty good for the time being!

  4. - Top - End - #304
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    I have not got the box yet, but it does seem very inspiring.

    I did noodle around online and found out Neave's points. I think she would make a fine replacement for the Knight-Venator. He has never quite inspired me--just seems like so little damage output, and his one unreliable special ability.

    Yeah, the Hammerstrike force does seem expensive. And to run it I would use Hammer Prosecutors, which I do not have, so the idea of a list that just has a bunch of units seems nice.

    And walking up with my Protectors seems workable since then they can stick with my Lord-Celestant with his buffs.

    Which reminds me, what do people think of crossbow vs. bow judicators? I have crossbow guys I converted from extra crossbows and liberators that came in the battleforce. I think the look quite nice, and like the idea of them dropping in on someone to shoot them up. On the other hand the bow guys can sit in the back and shoot--but I will have the prosecutors and raptors for that. And the crossbows do do so much more damage, especially with the special one.

  5. - Top - End - #305
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Used to collect and paint Warhammer Fantasy Battle figures, and came across Age of Sigmar recently, and it sparked my interest in figurines again...
    Plus... am I right that most of the rules are available free this time around, and that smaller(ish) armies can be used? Both would be a big plus to me trying to actually play it now.
    One other thing I was curious about: have there been any changes to older models, like goblins? And how well do the "just fit the pieces together!" figures work? One thing that sometimes annoyed me was when even after gluing some models would have remarkably large gaps that required a frustrating amount of putty(saurian warriors being a big one, iirc).
    Meow(Steam page)
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  6. - Top - End - #306
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    There is some variation on how useable old models are. Some (lizardmen, chaos) are still supported. Others (brettonia, tomb kings) less well supported. I think goblins are still a thing, at least some of them.

    From what I have seen the new models are quite nice. The Stormcast glue together really nicely. I find them a joy to put together. Not sure on anything else--though I imagine the other new model lines are similar.

  7. - Top - End - #307
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    I am very upset that all the named characters are gone. Now my Kazrak the One Eye, with his cool armor and weapons, is now a mere vanilla beastlord. Oh the options I once had. Also the Standard Bearer got a huge nerf with the keyword and ability changes.

  8. - Top - End - #308
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaktan View Post
    I have not got the box yet, but it does seem very inspiring.

    I did noodle around online and found out Neave's points. I think she would make a fine replacement for the Knight-Venator. He has never quite inspired me--just seems like so little damage output, and his one unreliable special ability.

    Yeah, the Hammerstrike force does seem expensive. And to run it I would use Hammer Prosecutors, which I do not have, so the idea of a list that just has a bunch of units seems nice.

    And walking up with my Protectors seems workable since then they can stick with my Lord-Celestant with his buffs.

    Which reminds me, what do people think of crossbow vs. bow judicators? I have crossbow guys I converted from extra crossbows and liberators that came in the battleforce. I think the look quite nice, and like the idea of them dropping in on someone to shoot them up. On the other hand the bow guys can sit in the back and shoot--but I will have the prosecutors and raptors for that. And the crossbows do do so much more damage, especially with the special one.
    Neave seems pretty good but delivering her to combat is pretty unreliable and she doesn't do buffing, so if you can't get her in she feels a bit wasted. At least the Venator is always going to do damage until he dies. But, if you get her in, whoo boy she's a freaking blender.

    I like Crossbows more than most people, but Bows are way way superior. Even with Crossbows you'll want your Prime to use the Shockbolt bow because it's just that good. Crossbows pair nicely with Scions of the Storm - just always keep them in Reserve and when they come in they'll be in range. But you often won't get to use the extra shots, so it's a bit iffy. Good against hordes, though, and that's becoming the meta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    Used to collect and paint Warhammer Fantasy Battle figures, and came across Age of Sigmar recently, and it sparked my interest in figurines again...
    Plus... am I right that most of the rules are available free this time around, and that smaller(ish) armies can be used? Both would be a big plus to me trying to actually play it now.
    One other thing I was curious about: have there been any changes to older models, like goblins? And how well do the "just fit the pieces together!" figures work? One thing that sometimes annoyed me was when even after gluing some models would have remarkably large gaps that required a frustrating amount of putty(saurian warriors being a big one, iirc).
    Welcome, maybe! AoS is very fun and exciting right now, from my personal experience anyway. Lots of armies that are viable and lots of different missions and army archetypes. I never played Fantasy but I'm all in on AoS lately.

    Goblins are quite good at the moment. Pure Gobbos won a big tournament recently, and pairing them with other Destruction armies is very powerful as well. I would tend to shy away from "legacy" models (that is, models that are no longer sold by GW and being phased out), but there are plenty of old sculpts that are still considered mainline and quite good.

    As far as the gaps thing goes, the quality of the sculpts have, imo, gone up quite a bit and I rarely find any holes I need to plug. Depends on the model, of course.

    But yeah, if you're interested, take a look through the rules. The base rules and rules for every model are free online, and I'm sure any GW or FLGS would be happy to have you come in and play a test game. If you have any questions, feel free to ask here as well.

  9. - Top - End - #309
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    I thought I would link this here for interest - Kieron Gillen (The comic writer - Wicked and the Divine, Young Avengers) - has a great Age Of Sigmar blog, and his latest post was a great reimagining of the place of Skaven in the Age Of Sigmar canon - as he explains, he was frustrated with some elements of the skaven, but wanted to keep some others.
    - Avatar by LCP -

  10. - Top - End - #310
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    More I was asking about older models because I was curious if they had improved their sculpts a bit. Admittedly, I do remember the orcs and goblins stuff tending to fit together pretty well. Only set I really had issues with was the one lizardfolk one I bought ages ago.
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  11. - Top - End - #311
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    It's interesting that the game now (kind of) punishes you for using Compendium units. That's one way to do it.

    It's interesting that the game now punishes players who run armies that need Allies to work, because their Faction is seperated into 7 sub-factions instead of being under one roof like Seraphon or Stormcasts. Like, what kind of idiot builds a cohesive army out of multiple sub-factions because they're forced into it because GW seperated their Faction into multiple groups and then punished them for it? SUCKS TO BE YOU, IDIOT. You play Order? Where's your Stormcasts at?
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  12. - Top - End - #312
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    Togath's Avatar

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    I don't actually follow. I never actually learned the original rules.
    Meow(Steam page)
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  13. - Top - End - #313
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    I don't actually follow. I never actually learned the original rules.
    As far as I'm aware, all Compendium units have been hard nerfed by GW's removal of Faction Keywords, meaning that they can't buff, or be buffed by current rule units.
    That said, because they lost all their Faction Keywords, they no longer give Allegiance, either (see below).
    In addition to removing all unique characters (except for the ones that are kind of explicitly immortal), GW is slowly chipping away at people trying to use OOP units.

    Armies that need to use multiple sub-Factions to function because GW fusterclucked the whole thing by trying to add 'flavour' to Age of Sigmar (e.g; Brayherds, Skaven, all <Death> armies, most of <Order>, etc.) now use the 'Allies' System, which is fine, in of itself. Except if your army needs multiple sub-factions to work right, you've been soft nerfed, because the rules tie certain powerful abilities to Faction Keywords, that you miss out on, if you take 'too many' Sub-Faction units depending on your Points limit.
    Yes, you can still take the Big 4 Allegiances. You just...Miss out...On certain options if you want to actually play your army and not be terrible. Hence the soft nerf.

    But, the other thing is that Compendium units no longer count towards Allegiance because GW removed their Keywords. Which means you're stuck with the Big 4 Allegiances if you try to use any Compendium units at all. Not only can Compendium units not be buffed by buffed by current, in-print units (hard nerf), but they also bring your army down a peg or two just by being around (soft nerf, because you still get something, it's just not as good as the thing you could have if you didn't have them).
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  14. - Top - End - #314
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    What are compendium units?
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    What are compendium units?
    If you go to GW's website, and scroll all the way down to the bottom, you'll find Age of Sigmar Rules.
    Click that, and you'll find 'Compendiums' of some of the old WHFB units that GW will allow you to play with. If you used to play WHFB, you might be wondering why some of your favourite units have disappeared. Well, some of your favourite units actually haven't gone anywhere, and they're still allowed, albeit out of print. So if you don't have them already, there's no point going looking. If everything you have is being sold on GW's webstore, then it's up to date and not in the Compendium, and still in print, and GW wants you to buy them. But, if you're an older player - or just have old models for some reason - it doesn't hurt to check your old Faction's Compendium.
    But, while GW allows you to run OOP units, they don't want you running OOP units. So, any excuse to nerf them, right?
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2017-09-15 at 12:35 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #316
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Ah! Looks like all of my figures I have are the modern sort then. I only started painting them back in, like, 2008 or 2009, and mostly collected plastic figures for the same of them being easier to reshape if needed and less heavy than metal.
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  17. - Top - End - #317
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    As far as I'm aware, all Compendium units have been hard nerfed by GW's removal of Faction Keywords, meaning that they can't buff, or be buffed by current rule units.
    That said, because they lost all their Faction Keywords, they no longer give Allegiance, either (see below).
    In addition to removing all unique characters (except for the ones that are kind of explicitly immortal), GW is slowly chipping away at people trying to use OOP units.

    Armies that need to use multiple sub-Factions to function because GW fusterclucked the whole thing by trying to add 'flavour' to Age of Sigmar (e.g; Brayherds, Skaven, all <Death> armies, most of <Order>, etc.) now use the 'Allies' System, which is fine, in of itself. Except if your army needs multiple sub-factions to work right, you've been soft nerfed, because the rules tie certain powerful abilities to Faction Keywords, that you miss out on, if you take 'too many' Sub-Faction units depending on your Points limit.
    Yes, you can still take the Big 4 Allegiances. You just...Miss out...On certain options if you want to actually play your army and not be terrible. Hence the soft nerf.

    But, the other thing is that Compendium units no longer count towards Allegiance because GW removed their Keywords. Which means you're stuck with the Big 4 Allegiances if you try to use any Compendium units at all. Not only can Compendium units not be buffed by buffed by current, in-print units (hard nerf), but they also bring your army down a peg or two just by being around (soft nerf, because you still get something, it's just not as good as the thing you could have if you didn't have them).
    Eh... I get where you're coming from but that's a very, very soft nerf in my eyes. If in GHB1 you were using mixed Order, your army is exactly the same. If you were, say, mostly Brayherds with other Chaos mixed in, you won't change anything. But, there's now the option to go for the more focused but limiting Brayherds allegiance, and more incentive to do so.

    IMO all the subfaction Allegiance Abilities are worthwhile enough to at least consider limiting yourself to that faction. Free Peoples in particular is, from preliminary testing and listbuilding, one of the strongest armies in the game. Enough Allies to bring in a Hurricanum, lots of missions play to large units, and the Grand Company rule is completely broken against pure melee armies like Ironjawz or Khorne (yes I know allies and Skull Cannons exist but they're mainly melee).

    This "soft nerf" was already felt in GHB1 to an extent with 'Battleline If' units, so anyone getting, say, Brutes as Ironjawz Battleline already is just getting an extra bonus on top of that now.

    That stuff aside, I really love the missions so far, and the meta shift from points and new Allegiance Abilities has shaken our meta up at least. I'm personally eyeing up a Brayherd army with that Warherd Allies box, plus using the Great Bray Shaman to summon in a Vortex Beast or something like that. I think the new outflanking rule plus Raiders getting the Massive Regements discount is going to be very, very strong, and the Herdstone is a super interesting ability imo.

  18. - Top - End - #318
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Neave seems pretty good but delivering her to combat is pretty unreliable and she doesn't do buffing, so if you can't get her in she feels a bit wasted. At least the Venator is always going to do damage until he dies. But, if you get her in, whoo boy she's a freaking blender.

    I like Crossbows more than most people, but Bows are way way superior. Even with Crossbows you'll want your Prime to use the Shockbolt bow because it's just that good. Crossbows pair nicely with Scions of the Storm - just always keep them in Reserve and when they come in they'll be in range. But you often won't get to use the extra shots, so it's a bit iffy. Good against hordes, though, and that's becoming the meta.
    Nice to hear on Neave. That is what I want from her--I have the Lord Celestant for buffing. I figure she can be carried in by the Palladors, or hang out with my Lord Celestant to intercept enemy heros, depending on the enemy.

    On the Judicators: That is an interesting idea with the shockbolt bow on the prime, the problem is I have a crossbow on my second prime, so to make a crossbow unit I need to use the thunderbolt crossbow, or have two guys with special hats...

  19. - Top - End - #319
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Just played a game using the 'Open Play' cards. We used points, because we're not stupid, and therefore it wasn't technically 'Open Play'. But we still used the cards anyway.
    Was good. Got the one where all models get +2" Move, which gives Dorfs a 6" Move like a normal person, and I got the Trap Card Ruse that let me SUA (9") any one of my units. Since I can't run Miners anymore (they're a Compendium unit, and therefore bad), the Ruse was really handy.

    The Dispossessed ability to re-roll 1s To Hit against anything they like is really strong, and it's worth it for that Allegiance. And auto-passing Battleshock 50% of the time is really good.
    The problem is that everything with hitting power that Dorfs used to run, comes out of the Ironweld Arsenal. So they don't get the re-roll 1s To Hit because they aren't Dispossessed. The other problem being that Cannons are 180 Points each. So, yes, you can run two of them in 2000 Points, but you can't get the Cogsmith that should come with them. Which is extremely bad, because not only are Cannons not getting full re-rolls, they aren't getting re-roll 1s To Hit either... They just miss. So as cool as "You're gonna get so -2'd with D6 Damage..." if you miss half the time, what's the point?

    The Anvil of Doom was hard nerfed into the ground. But Flame Cannons are still excellent. But, 'Dwarfs' aren't in your Allies list, and Flame Cannons don't have the Dispossessed Keyword, which means you lose out on Allegiance - the ability to auto-pass Battleshock and re-roll 1s To Hit anything.

    It's a learning process Buy new models, right?
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Tomb Kings and Bretonnia have actually been buffed post General's Handbook 2017, it was only Tomb Kings units in Death armies than got nerfed. Except not really since Deathrattle keyword didn't do much anyway due to Danse Macabre being tied to the skeleton keyword which most TK stuff still has.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    There is actually a loophole around alligence and allies, and it's summoning. It's basically the only thing keeping the Great Bray shaman from being absolutely worthless. He can still summon any chaos monster, so you can keep the brayherd aleigence and still keep your Cygors and Ghorgons. Of course the downside is, my bullgors are still left out, but what can you do?

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    Tomb Kings and Bretonnia have actually been buffed post General's Handbook 2017...
    To be fair, Tomb Kings and Bretonnia were never 'partially updated', which means that the entirety of their Allegiance remains in-house, so to speak.
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    There is actually a loophole around alligence and allies, and it's summoning. It's basically the only thing keeping the Great Bray shaman from being absolutely worthless. He can still summon any chaos monster, so you can keep the brayherd aleigence and still keep your Cygors and Ghorgons. Of course the downside is, my bullgors are still left out, but what can you do?
    Great Bray Shaman in Brayherds Allegiance can take a Command Trait for +1 to cast and a Herdstone for automatic Arcane scenery that you can model to hide behind. So you can summon Archaon on a 7+.

    Granted many tournaments don't allow you to summon Hero models with the ability but getting a 50/50 shot at a Soul Grinder is pretty good too. And then if it fails a second Shaman can try the regular Summoning spell also with the Arcane Scenery on a 9+. I'm personally looking at Brayherd Allegiance, 2-3 Great Bray Shamans, 3x40 Raiders for Ambushing, and then just everything else Allies (Warherds seem fluffy and strong) and Summoning pool.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Had an amazing Path to Glory game last night. I started with just a Lord Celestant on Stardrake because it's hilarious to only have one model.

    Opponent played Fyreslayers. Got me down to 1 Wound, but the final dorf attack got rerolled by the shield, saved, and MW reflected to finish off the last 3 single model units for a tabling. 1/18 chance to reflect (did some shenanigans for a - 3 rend weapon) and then he failed all his Fyreslayer saves. Maybe not so funny for him but amazing nonetheless.
    Last edited by Requizen; 2017-09-21 at 08:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Guide to Dispossessed

    Spoiler: Allegiance Abilities
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    Battle Traits
    Stubborn: Dispossessed (Disp) get to auto-pass Battleshock 50% of the time. This is really strong. Especially combined with Clan Banners which say that even if you do fail, only half the number of models flee. The regular <Order> version of this is just a re-roll. <Disp> just get to auto-pass on a 1-3.

    Grudgebound: After set up is complete (i.e; After you've seen your opponent's entire army), pick a type of unit and all your <Disp> in your army get to re-roll 1s To Hit against every unit that fits that type, even if your General dies. Playing against Freeguild? Re-roll 1s To Hit against hordes. Playing against Seraphon? Re-roll 1s To Hit against <Monsters>. Playing against someone running all 6 Leaders and stacking buffs? Re-roll 1s To Hit against <Heroes>. This is an extremely strong Trait, mostly because you can tailor it to your opponent's army. Unfortunately, you have to have <Disp> Allegiance to get it...Which is almost certainly not worth it.

    Command Traits
    1. Pass Battleshock on 1-4, rather than 1-3. Solid.
    2. Your General gets +1 Wound. Since Warden Kings only have 5 Wounds...Taking them to 6 Wounds means they're less likely to be one-shotted by D6 Damage.
    3. Your General gets +1 To Wound against <Chaos> units. Tailor at will.
    4. Aura. Enemies don't get Cover bonuses against your units' attacks.
    5. After your General completes his Melee attacks. On a '6', he can pile in and attack a second time that phase.
    6. Once per game, switch your Grudge for the rest of the game. Hot damn. For the first two turns, target down something scary. By Turn 3, you can switch your Grudge to whatever your opponent has left. Extremely strong Trait.

    Artefacts of Power
    Heavy Metal Ingot; Just...No.
    Ancestral Pickaxe; Remove your <Hero> and a unit within 3" from the board. SUA (9"). This is the best thing you have.
    Teardrop of Grungi; Once per game deal D3 Mortal Wounds to someone you're basically in combat with. No thanks.
    Grudge Rune; Pick an enemy <Hero>, your army (including Allies?) re-rolls To Hit and Wound against that model.
    Piledriver Gauntlets; Instead of attacking in the combat phase, enemy models within 6" get -1 To Hit when they attack. Is that...For the rest of the game?
    Resounding Gromrilhorn; All of your <Disp> units get +2 Bravery until your next turn. This would be really good...If you didn't need it at all, and didn't have to pay the opportunity cost of not taking the Pickaxe.

    Hammerers are Battline.


    Spoiler: Leaders
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    Warden King: As Generals, they pretty much suck. Unfortunately, you don't have anything else. 4+rr Save is...Not great, and 5 Wounds is worse. If you don't move <Disp> units in 18" use his Bravery. Except <Disp> Allegiance armies should be auto-passing Battleshock and then not even caring if they fail anyway. If you don't have <Disp> Allegiance, and instead have <Order> Allegiance...Why do you have a Warden King as your General? His Command Ability, however, is pretty good. In your Hero Phase, pick an enemy unit in range. All <Disp> units in your army gain +1 To Wound against it. Very good. But, Warden Kings as Generals are pretty much terrible. But, we'll come back to them.

    Runelord: Since the Anvil of Doom sucks now. What else are you going to use to Unbind spells +2? Since the Runelord is a <Priest>, his 'spells' can't be Unbound, and he casts on a 2+, which is great. Give a <Disp> unit FNP (6+). Solid. Otherwise, give a <Disp> unit an additional -1 Rend on all of their weapons. Also very strong. There is no <Disp> army that you can make, where you aren't taking at least one Runelord, and at only 80 Points each, you can have loads of them...But, for the sake of being reasonable, you don't need more than 2 of them.

    Unforged: These are really good! ...Provided that they can make it into combat. A 6+ Save is really bad, and now that the Anvil of Doom sucks (that's twice, now) you can't even cast !Mystic Shield on them. Unforged have six attacks at 3+/3+/-1, re-roll 1s To Hit (which <Disp> already does, so send your Unforged after something that you haven't picked as your Grudge), and an Unforged gets +1 To Wound against models with more than 1 Wound. And an Unforged will roll <Chaos> units in Melee even harder. Again, reiterating that he only has a 6+ Save and it's a miracle (or your oppoonent is dumb and/or hasn't seen an Unforged before in Melee) if your Unforged makes it into combat. Don't take more than one. Probably don't even take one.


    Spoiler: Battleline
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    Warriors: Due to poor wording on the rules, Duardin Warriors can take Two-Handed Weapons and Shields, giving you the best of both worlds, and the 'conversion' to do so, isn't even difficult. Shield Wall; If you don't Run or Charge (you can still Move) re-roll all Saves until your next turn. Cool. Additionaly, in your opponent's Combat phase, Warriors can re-roll 1s To Wound, or re-roll alll To Wounds if there are more than 20 models in the unit. Which there will be, because you have 40 of them, because then you get a discount making them extremely cost effective. You'll want at least one unit of 40 per 1000 Points.

    Longbeards: Longbeards are identical to Warriors, except pay 4 Points extra per model for +1 Save. Which isn't worth it at all. They have the same bad wording that allows for Two-Handed Weapons and Shields at the same time. They lose the ability to re-roll To Wound in your opponent's phase, for the opportunity cost to do other things, instead. Per turn, pick one until your next Hero phase;
    - <Disp> units within 8" get a 5+ Save against Battleshock, which is handy. You're passing half the time. With half the models fleeing if you fail, and of that half that does flee, a third of them will stick around.
    - <Disp> Heroes within the same range can use their Command Ability, even if they aren't your General. If you're running Allegiance, then a Warden King is going to be your General anyway. However, for every unit of Longbeards you bring along, you can have an extra Warden King bringing his army-wide +1 To Wound. <Disp> armies will end up running two or three 'Kings, because fluff is for nerds.
    - All <Disp> within ranged Re-roll 1s To Wound in the combat phase. Since this goes 'til your next hero phase, this will include your opponent's turn, and yours.
    Overall though, you aren't looking to take more than one or two units of Longbeards, and certainly not more than 10 per unit. They don't do as much damage as Warriors (in fact, oftentimes they'll do less), and the extra Save is barely worth the points. No. You're only interested in Longbeards because they bring a buff to your army, which they'll do whether you have 10, or 30. Meaning the extra 20 you might run are a complete waste of points, because even if your Longbeards get trounced, and there's only 1 model left. They'll still do the thing. Just spam Warriors.


    Spoiler: Other
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    Ironbreakers: Warriors that cost extra Points for +1 Save and ignore Rend -1. Their biggest problem is that unlike Warriors, they have Hand Weapons, and they don't have re-rolls To Wound. So while 160/10 is more cost effective than Irondrakes. Fact is, Warriors can have 20 models for every 10 Ironbreakers, so the extra attacks per model don't mean anything. Objectives are (usually) held by the unit with the most models, so Warriors win there, too. Just what are you paying for? Warriors are Battleline, so you're already taking them anyway...So, what? Ironbreakers are just more of the same, except actually worse? Hard pass.

    Hammerers: Battleline if Allegiance. Offensively, these guys are where it's at. With 3+/3+/-1 and two attacks each, at 180/10 these guys are actually more cost-efficient than even Warriors, and if you're hard into <Disp>, then they're Battleline, so what's not to like? You guessed it. Model count. You just can't go past a unit of 40 Warriors. Only then do you start taking the fun stuff. Like Hammerers. There's only 10 of 'em, and they only have one Wound each. Unlike other badly worded <Disp> units, Hammerers don't carry Shields, so can't Shield Wall, which means they only have a 4+ Save which just isn't great for 180/10.


    Spoiler: Ranged Units
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    None of them are Battleline. The reason that ranged units get their own section is to get your attention. You're Duardin. You have a 4" Move. Sometimes 8" if you Run (but then you can't Shield Wall). Your army will be made or broken by your ranged units, and whether or not they roll well during the game. That means that you pretty much have to take some, and because you're Duardin, you basically have a mono-build...So don't screw this up.

    Irondrakes: 200/10 is a lot. For that price tag, they need to be shooting twice a turn, and if they don't shoot twice per turn...They're bad. So hopefully your opponent will come to you. Additionally, Irondrakes ignore Rend -1. That's...Okay. But once your opponent starts attacking your Irondrakes with -2 weapons, you'll start to wonder strongly wonder why you're paying 20 Points per model. Irondrakes can't even take the 'Halve Battleshock' Banner. Basically, ignore for...

    Thunderers: At 120/10, they're much more cost effective than Irondrakes. Instead of being stationary the whole game, Thunderers are actually allowed to move around the board. Thunderers get +1 To Hit when there are more than 20 models in the unit (i.e; 240/20, or 360/30), which makes them way more cost effective that Irondrakes especially when you factor in the ability to move large, ranged units (i.e; Move to Objectives, and still keep firing). Thunderers can take the 'Halve Battleshock Damage' Banner, which Irondrakes can't. Additionally, Thunderers can take Shields, giving them the same Shield Wall ability as rest of your Disps. Since your Thunderers will rarely - if ever - be Running (shoot, idiot), your Shields work perfectly with what you want to be doing, anyway. At Rend -1, giving them a 6+rr Save, is actually more cost effective than Irondrakes with a 4+ Save, ignoring the Rend -1. Seriously though, whose idea was Irondrakes for 20 points a model?
    The only downside to Thunderers, is that if you go first, they're unlikely to do anything on Turn 1, as they aren't going to have range...

    Quarrellers: *Sigh*. Quarrellers are...Bad. They give up their Rend -1, for 4" extra range on their guns. This means that on Turn 1, with their Duardin 4" Move, they can actually make up the 24" distance between set up areas. Unfortunately, their slightly useful Turn 1, also turns into so much worse for the rest of the game. Their unit ability, is actually the worst of both Irondrakes and Thunderers; They have to have 20+ models in the unit, and they're not allowed to move, and for doing so they get to shoot twice. But it doesn't matter because Thunderers with 20+ models in the unit costs the same and hits on 3+/3+/-1 (and can move). 4+/4+/- just isn't as good, even if you have twice the attacks.


    Spoiler: Allies
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    Did I mention that without good ranged units, your Dispossessed army will fall apart?
    Additionally, Disps don't deal consistent Mortal Wounds. Any Mortal Wounds that Disps can dish out, only happen once per battle, and therefore can't be relied upon.
    Remember, you can always take anything you want, and run <Order> Allegiance instead. No-one is stopping you. Allies are only for when you want to keep your <Disp> Allegiance abilities.

    Fyreslayers
    Auric Runesmiter & Auric Hearthguard (180); Use the Tunneling ability and SUA (9"), and then unload your Rockbolts. Fits into 1000 Points, and since Miners suck now because they ruin your <Disp> Allegiance, this is what you've got. In 2000 Points you can just end up taking more Hearthguard.

    Auric Runesmiter & Auric Runeson on Magmadroth (320); Fits in 2000 Points. Whatever you're doing with Fyreslayers, you're doing it with the Runesmiter a Tunnel. When you build the Magmadroth, you have the option of putting a Runesmiter on it. Except a Runesmither on Magmadroth doesn't give a Tunnel. So you're putting that dude on foot. So who goes on top? Well, Runefathers are garbage and Runesons are excellent. It all works out. "P.S; Here's a Magmadroth." never gets old.

    Ironweld Arsenal
    Cannon (180); It has <Duardin> Crew. But it doesn't have <Disp> Crew, and it's the latter that matters. In 1000 Points, you don't have room for an <Engineer> in your Allies selections, and in 2000 Points, with x2 Cannons, you still don't have room for an <Engineer>. Because you aren't <Disp>, you don't benefit from the Allegiance abilities, and 180 Points for something with only two attacks, that'll miss half the time? Ugh. Cannons are so bad, now. Ditto for a Helbaster Rocket Battery

    Organ Gun & Gunmaster (200); It totally obliterates your Duardin theme, but it's viable, and that's what matters. Volley Gun is way worse and less reliable.

    Steam Tank (280); *Cue Angry Guitar Solo*. You can't bring it in low point games. Which is really frustrating, because Ironweld Arsenal is essentially an 'Ally Faction' as it has no Battleline. Meanwhile a whole bunch of armies can include Behemoths because their list is actually self-contained. Unlike Dispossessed, which isn't.

    Gyrocopters (80, ea.); They're not Artillery, so you can take as many as you want. The Brimstone Gun or the Steam Gun is good, depending on what your meta is like, and unlike the Gyrobombers, their primary purpose isn't to fly over units, putting themselves into your opponent's backline and then dying immediately. Well, they can do that, but it's not what you take them for. The ability to take two of them means more threats on the board, so your opponent doesn't see your single Artillery piece and say "I shoot that." 4 Wounds isn't great. But they move 14" and fly, with ranged guns. Isn't that everything that Duardin want except doing Mortal Wounds? Which it then does once a game using Bombs? Oh...it is. Okay then.

    Kharadron Overlords
    Everything good that's Kharadron, requires massive investment in <Kharadon> buffs and Allegiance abilities. Next.

    Stormcast Eternals
    Lord-Celestant (100); Chucks out (reasonably) consistent Mortal Wounds for the same cost as a Battlemage casting Arcane Bolt (which you can't have) every turn.
    Lord-Relictor (80); Chucks out consistent Mortal Wounds for less points.
    Knight-Azyros (80); 80 Points. For real.
    Gryph-Houd (40); Imagine if two Gyrocopters together was only 160?

    Judticators and Gryph-Houd (200); Yep.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2017-09-23 at 08:59 AM.
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  26. - Top - End - #326
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    I'd consider Irondrakes with the Pickaxe to drop them in... if it didn't count as moving and therefore prevent them from firing twice. So, meh.

    As allies, I would easily consider 40 Warriors and a Runelord to go with my Stormcast. Cheap bodies, with a 6+ FNP roll and rerollable saves, in an edition where bodies hold objectives? Yes please! Only comparable unit is 30 Fyreslayer Berserkers, which seem a bit better, but the Warriors are cheaper, more numerous, and reroll saves, which makes them worth considering.

  27. - Top - End - #327
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I'd consider Irondrakes with the Pickaxe to drop them in... if it didn't count as moving and therefore prevent them from firing twice. So, meh.
    I'm having big success using Ancestral Pickaxe on a Runelord. Give Thunderers an extra Rend (for -2), teleport, and unload on whatever looks scary (which I have rr1 To Hit against because of Grudge). Because I didn't Run or Charge, Thunderers get to Shield Wall. Pair it with my Fyreslayer Tunnel for actual support and it works pretty well.

    I'm not saying I like having a mono-build army. But, I do at least already have all the models for it.

    The Runesmiter & Magmadroth combo is only 320, and a Knight-Azyros is only 80. So it fits into 2000. I might give that a go, soon. I like the idea of the Magmadroth not being anywhere near the rest of my army (because it deals MWs to everything around it, including friendly units), if I could somehow mitigate the sucky parts of the Magmadroth, that'd leave only the good parts... Right?

    EDIT; Addendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Helblaster Volley Gun & Gunmaster (200); It totally obliterates your Duardin theme, but it's viable, and that's what matters. Organ Gun is roughly worse.
    ...After getting schooled, the Organ Gun is actually so much better it's not even funny.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2017-09-23 at 08:58 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #328
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Had my first game of our Path to Glory campaign on Friday.

    We did the Run Away! mission (I forget the name). I was the mauraders desecrating a necromacer's tomb, while the other player was a death army trying to stop me.

    I only got half my retinue, so I had my Lord-Celestant, Light Miyagi, one squad of Liberators, Squad Charity, and My Kinght-Venator, Vino Bill (he is still purple, unlike the rest of my starting army, who I managed to get painted.)

    My opponents (father-son duo--the dad is teaching his kid how to play) were using a death army from a start collecting box: spirit hosts, spectral horsemen (not sure name), and some big death engine thing leading them.

    I set my liberators and knight on either side of my general to guard him from the short edges. They deployed the big engine facing my liberators, and the other stuff facing my knight.

    I chose first turn, and managed to do a bunch of damage to his engine with my heroes shooting at it.

    Then I got double-turned and he was on top of me. I lost a liberator to battleshock when I rolled a six after losing one to his engine on his first turn.

    His stuff was too fast for my general to get away, and even though I killed off the big engine fairly quick, his horsemen were able to run me down.

    Lessons:

    Battleshock is painful for liberators.
    Grand-hammer liberator primes are awesome.
    Lord-Celestants are shooty heroes.

    I think I would have been able to win if I had ran straight for his engine instead of trying to avoid combat at first.

  29. - Top - End - #329
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaktan View Post
    Had my first game of our Path to Glory campaign on Friday.

    ...

    Lessons:

    Battleshock is painful for liberators.
    Grand-hammer liberator primes are awesome.
    Lord-Celestants are shooty heroes.

    I think I would have been able to win if I had ran straight for his engine instead of trying to avoid combat at first.
    Glad you had fun!

    Those lessons are truly a big deal for SCE players. It's why I never run my BV6 models in units larger than 5 if I can help it.

    And yeah, the Cloak of Hammers is somewhat unreliable (d6 shots with a 50/50 chance of MWs) but occasionally you can just snipe off that important target with your cheap 100pt dude. The only reason to take the Venator over him is range and speed (and the occasional lucky Star Fated Arrow), the Hammers are almost always going to be a superior shooting attack once you get to use it.

  30. - Top - End - #330
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

    Played against Stormcasts today. Why does everything do Mortal Wounds!?

    Lord-Celestant (-2 To Hit Artefact)
    Lord-Celestant
    Lord-Relictor
    Lord-Relictor

    Judicators (x5)
    Judicators (x5)

    Retributors (x5)
    Retributors (x5)

    Celestants give +1 To Hit, Sigmar allows stacking - 40K doesn't - which means that Retributors 'do the thing' on a 4+ (General allows other Hero to use Command Ability), and to top that off, Relictors can cast Bless Weapons on a 4+ (Priest, not Wizard), which means that on a '6' 4+, they can attack again. They do normal damage on a 2 or 3.

    ...And here's where I would re-roll my Saves...IF I HAD ANY!
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2017-09-28 at 07:58 AM.
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