Not called GREAT Club for nothing

[cupkeyk]

1 Power Attack
1 Cleave
2 Improved Bull Rush
3 Weapon Focus (Great Club)
4 Three Mountains
6 Brutal Strike
6 ShockTrooper
8 Leap Attack
9 Combat Expertise
10 Improved Trip
12 Knockdown
12 Ability Focus (Three Mountains)
14 Ability Focus (Brutal Strike)
15 Overwhelming Assault
16
18
18
20


So the idea is to leap attack to initiate an absurd brutal strike dc, trigger a trip attempt(knockdown) with sickened penalties, trigger a bonus attack from Improved Trip, thus hitting opponent twice triggering Three Mountains. Opponent is now prone, sickened and nauseated. He can choose to stand up or crawl both provoking an AoO. You can squish him at your leisure.

Is this a valid action for a first round?

Is there a way of either lowering the opponents fort save or increasing my brutal strike/three mountains DC or my Trip modifiers?

[Spiryt]

What I really don't understand why three mountains can be performed only with morgenstern, greatclub or heavy mace....

Why not warhammer or maul



And anyway, it looks quite cool




Yeah!

[Hyfigh]

AFB, but it seems legal. Add in a Barbarian level with the Lion Totem alternate class ability to get pounce and do it more than once in the round :D

[CrazedGoblin]

1 Power Attack
2 Cleave
3 Improved Bull Rush
4 Weapon Focus (Great Club)
5 Three Mountains
6 Brutal Strike
7 ShockTrooper
8 Leap Attack
9 Combat Expertise
10 Improved Trip
11 Knockdown
12 Ability Focus (Three Mountains)
13 Ability Focus (Brutal Strike)
14 Overwhelming Assault
15 because its called a Great Club
16
17
18
19
20


There we go, number 15 is a definate reason to use one

[Shhalahr Windrider]

What I really don't understand why three mountains can be performed only with morgenstern, greatclub or heavy mace....

Why not warhammer or maul

It's a style specifically based upon clubs and club-like weapons. Not hammers, unfortunately.

[SolkaTruesilver]

1- Take the Morgenstein, you'll have the chance to make piercing damage
2- You will also have the option of taking a shield now and then, which, eventually, can prove to be a life-saver. You can always swing it with 2 hands to almost the same amount of damage.

[Iku Rex]

So the idea is to leap attack to initiate an absurd brutal strike dc, trigger a trip attempt(knockdown) with sickened penalties, trigger a bonus attack from Improved Trip, thus hitting opponent twice triggering Three Mountains. Opponent is now prone, sickened and nauseated. He can choose to stand up or crawl both provoking an AoO. You can squish him at your leisure.

Is this a valid action for a first round?

No.

Leap Attack (CAdv) won't affect the Brutal Strike (PHBII) DC, Brutal Strike can only be used during your "attack action" (not the same as a "charge action") and the Knockdown (S&F, 3.0) feat doesn't allow an extra attack from Improved Trip (see errata).

[Spiryt]

It's a style specifically based upon clubs and club-like weapons. Not hammers, unfortunately.

You are a master of fighting with powerful bludgeoning weapons.

Will i easily understand that it is obviously about club and club-like, i don't understand why.

Aside that something like D&D maul is rather silly and never was actualy used in medieval, (20 pounds is little too much, even for a weapon which had to be heavy to be effective) it is certainy
powerful

So it fits the description.

[AtomicKitKat]

Will i easily understand that it is obviously about club and club-like, i don't understand why.

Aside that something like D&D maul is rather silly and never was actualy used in medieval, (20 pounds is little too much, even for a weapon which had to be heavy to be effective) it is certainy
powerful

So it fits the description.

Maces/Clubs and Hammers/Mauls swing quite differently. With a mace/club, you generally distribute most of the mass across the length of the club(a little more in the head for the mace), whereas with hammers/mauls, you concentrate the mass in the head, which leads to totally different swinging styles(I've tried using a sledgehammer of the type used to drive iron pickets for corraling PoWs. No joke, it's heavy. I could barely get in 1 swing per 10 seconds, nevermind every 1.5 seconds. Conversely, I've swung a variety of bats of the types used for baseball, as well as a few types of rackets. Totally different effort, arc, etc.). Also, you have to hit with one specific point of the hammer(ie, the flat side of the edge, rather than the broad part, which would also slow down your swing with air resistance), which is not true with the club/mace.

[Flawless]

No.

Leap Attack (CAdv) won't affect the Brutal Strike (PHBII) DC, Brutal Strike can only be used during your "attack action" (not the same as a "charge action") and the Knockdown (S&F, 3.0) feat doesn't allow an extra attack from Improved Trip (see errata).

Knock Down is also in Gods and Demigods as well as in the SRD. Thus it's 3.5. Technically, the 3.0 errata doesn't apply to the 3.5 version of the feat thus his combo is legal by the RAW.

EDIT: Well, at least concerning Knock Down and Improved Trip.

[Spiryt]

Maces/Clubs and Hammers/Mauls swing quite differently. With a mace/club, you generally distribute most of the mass across the length of the club(a little more in the head for the mace), whereas with hammers/mauls, you concentrate the mass in the head, which leads to totally different swinging styles(I've tried using a sledgehammer of the type used to drive iron pickets for corraling PoWs. No joke, it's heavy. I could barely get in 1 swing per 10 seconds, nevermind every 1.5 seconds. Conversely, I've swung a variety of bats of the types used for baseball, as well as a few types of rackets. Totally different effort, arc, etc.). Also, you have to hit with one specific point of the hammer(ie, the flat side of the edge, rather than the broad part, which would also slow down your swing with air resistance), which is not true with the club/mace.

You know, I'm not dumb, i never actually used those weapons for "medieval playing" fights or something, but i got hammer (battle one too) in my hands. Not to mention big stick. And I can easily imagine difference between hammer and mace in aerodynamic/balance e.c.

Still, it's not what i'm talking about - there IS difference between hammers and clubs it's obvious but it's nothing in feat description WHY you couldn't use maul.

I guess it's beacuse feat effects are quite powerful, so they didn't want to allow it with x3 crit. weapons, and encourage players to use clubs.

[Anxe]

2 things. Knockdown was disallowed about 2 months after it came out and standing up doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Otherwise, nice first round. Throw in a True Strike or something and you're sure to hit with all that power attack.

[Dhavaer]

2 things. Knockdown was disallowed about 2 months after it came out and standing up doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Otherwise, nice first round. Throw in a True Strike or something and you're sure to hit with all that power attack.

From the SRD.

Prone

The character is on the ground. An attacker who is prone has a -4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A defender who is prone gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.

Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

[Tor the Fallen]

Throw in a True Strike or something and you're sure to hit with all that power attack.

That's what shock trooper's for.
True Strike is usually a waste.

[Deepblue706]

True Strike is usually a waste.

Nice if you can quicken it, though!

[cupkeyk]

So brutal strike is only standard melee attack actions? not for full attacks nor charges? The words "attack action" appear only in the second paragraph wheere in which the feat is limited to one use per attack action, so I assumed it was trggered by an melee attack roll, like a full attack, a charge or any other attack with a blugdeoning weapon. It a pretty sucky feat if you are limited to standard melee attacks.

with regards to knockdown, isn't Deities and Demigods 3.5, It's in the srd as it is without any mention that it does not provoke Improved Trips extra attack?

[SadisticFishing]

Leap Attack should work for Brutal Strike, with the way they're worded they do...

You make an attack action as part of a charge, methinks..

[Iku Rex]

Knock Down is also in Gods and Demigods as well as in the SRD. Thus it's 3.5. Technically, the 3.0 errata doesn't apply to the 3.5 version of the feat thus his combo is legal by the RAW.

Deities and Demigods is 3.0. DnD 3.5 rules can be found in the DnD 3.5 Core rulebooks and DnD 3.5 supplements. Knock-Down is not in any of those.

If you want to make a case for no-errata Knock-Down you should point out that Sword and Fist predates Deities and Demigods, and there's no Knock-Down errata for Deities and Demigods. That makes the Deities and Demigods version different, and since it's a later supplement it trumps the S&F version.

WotC has the divine abilities and feats listed under the 3.5 SRD heading, so I suppose you could call it 3.5 if we were talking about a d20 product based on the SRD, not on the PHB/DMG/MM.

Since we're doing rules-lawyering I'd like to point out that as written Knock-Down requires a successful trip attack (a touch attack) before you get to the opposed check, and if lose the opposed check you risk being tripped yourself.

[Iku Rex]

You make an attack action as part of a charge, methinks..

No.

From the official 3.5 FAQ. Note the underlined part:

Is it possible to use the Shot on the Run feat in
conjunction with the Manyshot feat? Some people I know
insist that you must use the attack action with Shot on the
Run, and they further claim that Manyshot is a standard
action and not the attack action. But there isn’t any such
thing as an attack action, is there? The text on actions in
Chapter 8 of the Player’s Handbook (page 138) describes
many kinds of actions (standard actions, move actions, fullround
actions, and free actions); it even describes things
that are not actions and mentions restricted activity.
Nowhere, however, do the rules describe attack actions. So,
what’s the correct answer?
No, you cannot use Shot on the Run and Manyshot
together.
It is true that no category of actions is called “attack
actions” in the D&D game, but there is an action called
attack—it’s the first action described under Standard Actions
on page 139 in the Player’s Handbook.
It might seem that the folks who say no Manyshot with
Shot On the Run are slicing the baloney a little thin, but the
letter of the rules is on their side, and so is the intent behind the
letter of the rules. The Manyshot feat description could say you
fire multiple arrows with the attack action, but it doesn’t.
Manyshot is a standard action, not a variant on the attack action
(see the feat description on page 97 in the Player’s Handbook).
Likewise, the Shot on the Run feat could allow you to make
any kind of ranged attack while moving, but it doesn’t. When
using Shot on the Run, you must use the attack action with a
ranged weapon (see the feat description on page 100 in the
Player’s Handbook). This rules out using spells, most magic
items, or special standard actions such as the Manyshot feat
when making a Shot on the Run. That’s because casting a spell
would require the cast a spell action (described on page 140 of
the Player’s Handbook), using any magic item except for some
use-activated items would require the activate magic item
action (Player’s Handbook, page 142), and, as already noted
here, using the Manyshot feat is a standard action. Most magic
weapons are use activated and don’t require any action to
activate at all (see page 213 in the Dungeon Master’s Guide),
so you can use these weapons along with the attack action. For
example, you could use a +1 longbow or +1 arrow (or both)
with the attack action, and thus you also could use these items
with Shot on the Run.

Nowhere do the rules say that a charge (special full-round action) includes an attack action (standard action).

[Rad]

If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt.

If you get a trip attempt and do not use it to trip, then you cannot do anything with it. Many read this line so that the extra attack is triggered only if you used something that could have been an attack to make the trip attempt.

[Draz74]

If you get a trip attempt and do not use it to trip, then you cannot do anything with it. Many read this line so that the extra attack is triggered only if you used something that could have been an attack to make the trip attempt.

... which is a great interpretation, whether or not it is actually what the rules say. Perfect for making the Knock-Down feat good but not overpowered.

Oh, and if you have Knock-Down, then you have Improved Trip, so you [b]don't[/i] risk getting tripped if you fail the opposed check. I guess if you're being a rules lawyer, though, then you'd still have to land a touch attack before you could trip someone with Knock-Down.

[Iku Rex]

Oh, and if you have Knock-Down, then you have Improved Trip, so you [b]don't[/i] risk getting tripped if you fail the opposed check.

Benefit

You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent.

If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn't used your attack for the trip attempt.

Nothing about not being counter-tripped. Even the +4 bonus doesn't help, since it only applies on the check to trip your opponent.