Pouncing barbarians and the SRD?

[Rasumichin]

It has become popular on this board to refer to the lion totem variant of the barbarian core class in optimization threats, due to the fact that it should give pounce attacks.
Unsurprisingly, this made me interested in this variant, so i looked it up in the SRD and found the following :

Lion Totem Class Features
A barbarian dedicated to the lion totem does not gain the standard fast movement, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge barbarian class features, and instead gains the following abilities.

At 1st level, a lion-totem barbarian gains Run as a bonus feat.
A 2nd-level lion-totem barbarian gains a +2 bonus on Hide checks.
A 5th-level lion-totem barbarian gains a +2 bonus on damage rolls whenever he charges.

I hope i have not overread something, but i don't find pounce in there.

Did they fix it?
Is there another variant of the variant?
And if so, where can it be found?

[Morty]

The variant people on this board are referring to is from Complete Champion book.

[Rasumichin]

Okay, case solved...thanks a lot!

[brian c]

It's worth mentioning that since the Complete Champion and Unearthed Arcana (what's in the SRD) animal totems replace the same class feature, fast movement, you can't use both of them :( That kinda sucks, if I played a lion Barbarian I would try to convince my DM to houserule something to get them both to work, but pounce is a ridiculous first level ability anyway.

(Note: can't specifically say everything that the Complete Champion variant does because it's not OGC)

[SpikeFightwicky]

It's worth mentioning that since the Complete Champion and Unearthed Arcana (what's in the SRD) animal totems replace the same class feature, fast movement, you can't use both of them :( That kinda sucks, if I played a lion Barbarian I would try to convince my DM to houserule something to get them both to work, but pounce is a ridiculous first level ability anyway.

(Note: can't specifically say everything that the Complete Champion variant does because it's not OGC)

Wouldn't pounce be a useless first level ability? The barb can't cash in until at least level 6, and even then may not have all the feats/spell buffs/magic items to really hit with the second attack reliably, so that's 5 levels of dead ability. (Unless I'm missing something and barbs get multiple attacks out of box now...)

[Piccamo]

It makes Barbs a great dip class.

[SpikeFightwicky]

It makes Barbs a great dip class.

Didn't even think of that... With that new info, yeah, that is a ridiculous ability! A simple fighter can take a dip and come out with rage and pouce, with no BaB loss (though apparently no one plays a fighter, it's a quick and easy example).

[Shatteredtower]

Wouldn't pounce be a useless first level ability?

Not for anyone that uses more than one weapon or natural weapon during a full attack.

[HidaTsuzua]

Pounce isn't generally useful at low levels for this reason. I guess if you had some natural weapons to mix things up it'll be useful. However pounce until the totem was hard to gain and great at higher levels. So you keep the ability until you reach a high enough level to use it. Another thing would be that it makes a 1-level dip into barbarian really nice for lots of melee classes. Not only do you get pounce, you get a d12 hit die and rage 1/day (which can be handy).

[MeklorIlavator]

Well, pounce works with 2weapon fighting, so their is that. In fact, it makes Barbarian 1 just about the best dip level for any 2weapon fighter.

[AtomicKitKat]

I guess if you can justify the alignment drop to neutral, you could probably work Flurry into it as well.

[Callix]

Meh. Halfling or human rog 17/Lion barbarian 1/totemist 2. Put Girallon Arms on Totem bind with max essentia. Charge and make 4 sneak attacks for +9d6 damage. All at full AB. Scared yet?

[Swooper]

Personally, I think they should move the Pounce to 6th level. That way, people who were actually playing Lion Totem Barbarians would benefit just as much (since it doesn't kick in 'till you have a 2nd attack) but it would reduce the dipping effect.

I've seen a TWF-Stormguard Warrior-Robilar's Gambit warblade build with 1 level LTBarb (for pounce and the whirling frenzy rage variant), 5 levels swordsage (for Shadow Blink) and a level of fighter (for an extra feat). This particular build can, over the course of two rounds, deal over 2000 damage on avarage. Normally this kind of build is weakened by the fact that it relies on getting off two full round attacks in a row, but not so much with pounce. R1: Charge-Full Attack. R2: Blink away-Charge-Full Attack. Pretty sick really.

But then, I guess it's only fair next to Shivering Touch, Timestop and Celerity.

[Solo]

Meh. Halfling or human rog 17/Lion barbarian 1/totemist 2. Put Girallon Arms on Totem bind with max essentia. Charge and make 4 sneak attacks for +9d6 damage. All at full AB. Scared yet?

No.... but then again, that's probably because i play casters :p

[Callix]

Chuck in Power Attack, Leap Attack and Cobalt Charge on a human, and maybe even Shock Trooper, and it starts getting pretty lethal. And just how well does a caster stand up to 36d6 physical? (rhetorical question)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Chuck in Power Attack, Leap Attack and Cobalt Charge on a human, and maybe even Shock Trooper, and it starts getting pretty lethal. And just how well does a caster stand up to 36d6 physical? (rhetorical question)

When they can simply go "Contingency Celerity upon being the target of an attack or negative effect" then use Celerity to cast a Sudden Maximize Time Stop. Once in the time stop, he drops a Forcecage, Dimension Lock, and Cloudkill on top of you, then DimensionDoor's out of the way and lets time resume it's flow...

So actually, the wizard takes no damage, and the barbarian is taking Con damage every turn even on a failed save until he falls over dead with no chance of getting out. Heck, he could toss in an AMF for good measure, and even get rid of the chance of a Rod of Negation working.

Off hand... I'd say pretty darn well, actually...

[Emperor Tippy]

AMF suppresses the cloudkill. It also happens to be a personal spell so you would have to stay inside the forcecage with the barbarian.

[Cruiser1]

Once in the time stop, he drops a Forcecage, Dimension Lock, and Cloudkill on top of you, then DimensionDoor's out of the way and lets time resume it's flow...

If you cast Forcecage first, that means you cast the barred varsion of it (otherwise the other spells wouldn't be able to affect the Fighter due to the walls of force blocking line of effect). However Cloudkill moves away from you at 10 feet per round, meaning the Fighter only takes damage for one round before the Cloudkill moves through the bars and away.

Even casting the solid box version of Forcecage doesn't mean you can keep the Fighter in the Cloudkill. The results are undefined what happens when a Cloudkill runs into an object like a wall. Many DM's will rule the cloud just disappears. Others may rule it compresses against the wall, meaning the Fighter should be able to find fresh air by moving against the near side of the Forcecage.