A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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    annoyed OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    New comic is up.
    Rich Burlew


    A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2, the sixth set of monster miniatures for your tabletop gameŚnow including digital tokens to use in your favorite virtual tabletop. Available from Gumroad!

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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Once the Snarl gets everything, doesn't that include the afterlives?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Well, we may have HAD enough dragons, but not anymore. Some idiot wizard went and killed a third of a subspecies. But I'm sure its unrelated.
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    After the showdown at Girard's gate, the party will rush to Kraagor's gate to find it was in Durkon's home fortress-burrow-thing. They will complete the Prophasy, and Team Evil will come riding over the horizon slaughtering everything that gets in their way.

    Not wrong quite yet!

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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Ever the pragmatist, that Eugene.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    It's a good question though, are there enough dragons to take out the entire dwarven population?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    This was fantastic, and much needed. Thanks, Giant.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Ummmm ... Are we certain that all that's keeping Eugene out of the LG afterlife is the Blood Oath? Because trying to talk Roy out of saving the world so Eugene can move on is not so very Good, and further trying to get the dwarves to commit mass suicide-by-dragon strikes me as not so very Lawful.

    Aside from Eugene continuing to be Roy's foil, I think I spot some foreshadowing. The reason why Hel gets all the dwarven souls that don't fall in battle may in fact prove to be crucial to fixing things - somehow.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    He sure doesn't get Roy, does he?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    I find myself wondering if Rich is outright trolling those readers who maintain that Eugene Greenhilt is established as Lawful Good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origamite View Post
    Once the Snarl gets everything, doesn't that include the afterlives?
    The gods evidently believe they can unravel the world and rebuild it into a better prison without the Snarl getting to actually eat anything.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Although I like the idea of trying to contact the dwarves somehow before all kinds of Vampiric Hel(l) breaks loose, I don't think it's going to happen.

    Anyone else want to just backhand Eugene? Preferably into one of the layers of the Abyss?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    This was an amusing strip, nice to see that Eugene remains a complete and total jerk. Even so, it might actually be logical to begin a brutal civil war between the Dwarves before the world could be unmade. Cover all their bases and all that.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    High Int, low Wis.

    Practical solutions, terrible ideas.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Well, I'm now going to assume that "run into a dragon" is an actual dwarves saying (probably an idiom, under most circumstances) until proven otherwise.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    It is incredible how two Lawful Good individuals can have such drastically different points of view. They play off of each other very well, they do.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    ......Eugene, I'm starting to think the people that say your LG in name only might have a point....or if your LG, then it has a lot of values dissonance with modern society of what we think of as LG....

    But yeah, this comic makes a good point: what are the dwarves supposed to do, fight themselves for no reason? the fact that Eugene is being used to point out how ridiculous a solution that would be is....hm..

    but see a line like "but thats the beauty of it! You won't be deciding,t he gods will be!" doesn't strike me as "Good" that strikes me as "Neutral" in its decision making- refusing to make a choice and passing the buck to somebody else to make that choice.

    but then again he does acknowledge that Hel winning is A Bad Thing, but his solution for it doesn't care for their lives. I mean I GUESS if you stretch the definition of Lawful Good to its utmost, with big emphasis on Lawful, that an honorable death is something like that? Hm.

    But yeah, I'm surprised to see how much Eugene's jerkishness that people were speculating about him is being confirmed in these recent comics. Right down to the line about only wanting to get into Heaven and thinking that Roy should do the easy solution and let the world get destroyed.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Eugene's solutions are far from Lawful Good, but he IS thinking out of the box. There are probably several Silicon Valley firms that would hire him as a "Consultant/Disruptor."

    And really, Durkon did say that most Dwarves who are sick go outside and do battle with a few trees right as they feel the end coming, so they can technically die "in battle." If the dwarves are all holding meetings, and there was a way to communicate with them en masse, just have everyone go to war with the trees right before the world is about to end.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    trying to get the dwarves to commit mass suicide-by-dragon strikes me as not so very Lawful.
    Remember that its usual for every dwarf to get into a fight if they know they'll die soon for any other reasons. Forgot which specific comic it was said, but Durkon make us believe that every dwarf is very aware that they need a honorable death if they don't want to be enslaved for eternity.

    EDIT: Ninja'd
    Last edited by Nibelung; 2016-08-08 at 05:41 PM.

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    tongue Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    I can't possibly think of a better rebuttal to the periodic "the dwarves should commit mass suicide" suggestion than having Eugene advocate it. Well played.
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    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.


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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    It's incredible how often, in the last dozen or so strips, Rich has unintentionally brought up a terrible idea that was mentioned in the forums and then shown why it was terrible in the strip.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    You know, given this update, I'm not sure that Eugene actually HAS had an alignment change. He has just become a huge pragmatic *******, but he is still good for a given view of "good" and he's still technically following the rules. He's like a rules lawyer.

    Still, how does it reflect on me that I had the exact same idea as Eugene. If there's no other option, then every drawn will need to throw themselves at the trees, at beasts, and at each other to save their souls. What would you rather have, a moment of horror having to fight teeth and nail against your family (who will most likely forgive you once they get to the afterlife) or an eternity of damnation.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    So at first I'm thinking "Looks like someone's been slipping (further) towards the south side of Lawful Good," but then I get a few panels further and he's just let his perspective slip a bit on what constitutes the "life" in "respect for life" is all. Which poses a lot of interesting questions when you think about it.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    I have never before seen an objectively good reason to start a civil war, or such a moral argument for a massacre of an entire race. Good job, The Giant!
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    ... while I do argue that Eugene being in the LG afterlife proves that he was LG when he died, he sure as heck is acting in a less and less LG manner each time we see him. I think he may be in for an unpleasant surprise when the Blood Oath is cleared...

    Props to the Giant for addressing this suggestion in-comic, though
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    First, I'm impressed that this topic went so far off topic that it ended up back at The Order of the Stick.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    Ummmm ... Are we certain that all that's keeping Eugene out of the LG afterlife is the Blood Oath? Because trying to talk Roy out of saving the world so Eugene can move on is not so very Good, and further trying to get the dwarves to commit mass suicide-by-dragon strikes me as not so very Lawful.
    Being bothered about the dwarves being condemned to eternal slavery is at least a Good view easily attributable to Eugene. There's a non-zero quantity of them now.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    I'm going to repeat myself: I think that Roy will find out why it is that dwarves have to go to Hel if they don't fall in battle, and that it will be important to the story.

    Also, Durkon did identify another honorable death: cirrhosis of the liver. Which means, I guess, that ...

    wait for it ...

    wait ...

    wait ...

    All's well that ends w' ale.
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Being bothered about the dwarves being condemned to eternal slavery is at least a Good view easily attributable to Eugene. There's a non-zero quantity of them now.
    I'm willing to consider Eugene Lawful-ish Good-ish for now. As I said in the comment you quoted, he's Roy's foil - and since Roy is our LG exemplar, to serve as a foil Eugene has to express views that are not so Lawful and not so Good. Off screen he may do all sorts of wondrous deeds of good-hearted legality.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    All's well that ends w' ale.
    Killing off a race of people to save them from a worse death through a massive stag party.

    I don't know if that's the best idea ever, or the best idea ever.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    I'm going to repeat myself: I think that Roy will find out why it is that dwarves have to go to Hel if they don't fall in battle, and that it will be important to the story.

    Also, Durkon did identify another honorable death: cirrhosis of the liver. Which means, I guess, that ...

    wait for it ...

    wait ...

    wait ...

    All's well that ends w' ale.
    *the most grudging of applause*
    I am: Neutral Good: -2 chaos, -21 evil and 15 balance!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Kommander View Post
    Heartless? Those flaming letters spelled ELAN! How many sons can honestly say their father has murdered dozens of human beings just to show how much they care?

    Tarquin's fatherly love is truly unique... or at least I hope it is!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, I'm impressed that this topic went so far off topic that it ended up back at The Order of the Stick.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I find myself wondering if Rich is outright trolling those readers who maintain that Eugene Greenhilt is established as Lawful Good.
    If anything, this comic is the clearest demonstration yet that Eugene is both Lawful and Good.

    1) A perfectly Neutral character wouldn't be given any pause by the effect of the world's destruction on dwarves. Eugene not only recognizes the harm done to the dwarves as a flaw in the "Let the world end" plan, but devotes thought to trying to figure out a way to "help" the dwarves.

    2) And all the weird rules-lawyering Eugene comes up with to do so sure sounds pretty Lawful to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guancyto View Post
    High Int, low Wis.

    Practical solutions, terrible ideas.
    Sounds a lot like some of the threads on this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    but see a line like "but thats the beauty of it! You won't be deciding,t he gods will be!" doesn't strike me as "Good" that strikes me as "Neutral" in its decision making- refusing to make a choice and passing the buck to somebody else to make that choice.
    Sounds pretty Lawful to me, if anythingŚletting things work out according to the cosmic "chain of command" instead of fighting to change it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    but then again he does acknowledge that Hel winning is A Bad Thing, but his solution for it doesn't care for their lives. I mean I GUESS if you stretch the definition of Lawful Good to its utmost, with big emphasis on Lawful, that an honorable death is something like that? Hm.
    For someone who is literally sitting at the door to the afterlife with nothing to do except angst about how wonderful everything will be once he's allowed in, I don't think it's too much of a stretch for his understanding of "Good" to include just letting everyone in the world move on to the afterlife peacefully.

    ...Speculation: The author has previously observed that the afterlife only matters to the plot insofar as people prefer living to the afterlife. Maybe Eugene is an unusual example of someone who doesn't have that preference, with the associated effects on his psychology and value system?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1047 - The Discussion Thread

    I'm not going to be the one defending Eurene's alignment, but this in of itself isn't evidence of alignment at all. Think of all the (traditionally) Lawful and Good deities who voted to destroy the world.

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