D&D and crusades

[VienLa]

Hello! I'm not too familiar with D&D, so I wanted to ask a question about it. Generally, to start, I wanted to talk about real, historical, christian crusades:

- the first crusade was a huge and unexpected success. While there were religious skirmishes in the past, this one pretty much defined what people think when they hear "holy war". It established a strong foothold in the land it was targeted at.
- the second crusade wasn't nearly as succesful, but reestablished the position of newly created Kingdom of Jerusalem in the holy land.
- the third crusade was a massive success, at least when it came to the knight's response: it was bigger than any other before and after. The most important and most likely the one that people think when they think "a crusade".
- the fourth crusade (aka "cursed" crusade) was the biggest failure of them all. Due to bad results of poor decisions during planning stages it was targeted at wrong people and all it's members were cursed.
- the fifth crusade was certainly a lot better than the previous one (at least in design), but still didn't get too much following and ultimately didn't succeed.


So, my question is: is there a notable correlation between crusades and D&D editions?

[AnBe]

A few questions first:
In your D&D campaign, would the player characters be crusaders, or would they be the ones being crusaded against?
What would the crusade be against? Demons, Undead, Orcs, Humans with different religious beliefs?
What kind of terrain obstacles might the crusaders have to get through?

[Mutazoia]

So, my question is: is there a notable correlation between crusades and D&D editions?

Forgotten Realms (2nd Ed), did a take on the crusades with the "Horse Lords" novels (tied in to the expansion of the same name), where the forces of the Realms banded together and "crusaded" against the encroching horde of the "mongol" styled horse lords.

There was also:

A 3rd party book about a crusade against a leigon of undead ("Lich Lords")
The "Bloodstone" series of modules, which were not exactly "Crusade" material, but could be used as such.

[Milo v3]

I guess there is abit of a similarity though time will tell on 5e.

A few questions first:
In your D&D campaign, would the player characters be crusaders, or would they be the ones being crusaded against?
What would the crusade be against? Demons, Undead, Orcs, Humans with different religious beliefs?
What kind of terrain obstacles might the crusaders have to get through?

Forgotten Realms (2nd Ed), did a take on the crusades with the "Horse Lords" novels (tied in to the expansion of the same name), where the forces of the Realms banded together and "crusaded" against the encroching horde of the "mongol" styled horse lords.

There was also:

A 3rd party book about a crusade against a leigon of undead ("Lich Lords")
The "Bloodstone" series of modules, which were not exactly "Crusade" material, but could be used as such.

Uh... guys... did you read the opening post or just the title?

[TheYell]

No. D&D was escapist fantasy. Avalon Hill wargames were for historical case studies.

[Mutazoia]

Uh... guys... did you read the opening post or just the title?

Uh...yes.

Any correlation between any edition of D&D and the crusades would be found in specific settings or source material. Othewise you are just looking at a set of rules for rolling dice to determin a random outcome for hypothetical actions. You might as well be asking if there is a correlation between fliping a coin and the crusades.

EDIT:

To be fair, the only version of D&D that could possibly have any correlation to the crusades at all, was long before it was actually called Dungeons & Dragons. That would be "Chainmail", the wargame simulation for mini's, before it added individual (or hero) units (which later became the characters for the roleplaying game). But, again, those were just rules for generating random outcomes for hypothetical actions, just on a much larger (unit) scale.

[Honest Tiefling]

If DnD editions are crusades, what is Pathfinder?

[Spiryt]

So I guess, Crusades and D&D editions were mostly haphazard, chaotic enterprises made by rather small groups people driven by various mixes of zeal, wanderlust, dreams of owning land, greed, bloodlust etc. which were surprisingly successful, but ultimately doomed to die.

While Venetian and Genoese merchants secured all the long time profits.

The question is who are the Venetian merchants of D&D?

[Honest Tiefling]

The question is who are the Venetian merchants of D&D?

...The owners of Doritos and Mountain Dew, I'm guessing.

[mig el pig]

If DnD editions are crusades, what is Pathfinder?

The Baltic crusade

[Khedrac]

If DnD editions are crusades, what is Pathfinder?

The Baltic crusade

I was going to say the Albigensian Crusade.

[mig el pig]

Same idea, diffrent direction.

Albigensian Crusade was probably a better fit since it was a internal rather then an external conflict.

[Eldan]

Hello! I'm not too familiar with D&D, so I wanted to ask a question about it. Generally, to start, I wanted to talk about real, historical, christian crusades:

- the first crusade was a huge and unexpected success. While there were religious skirmishes in the past, this one pretty much defined what people think when they hear "holy war". It established a strong foothold in the land it was targeted at.

So, my question is: is there a notable correlation between crusades and D&D editions?

They also repeatedly raided Hungarian cities on the way, did enough damage that the Byzantine Emperor basically kicked them out, conquered several kingdoms that were nowhere near the target, didn't return any of the Byzantine land that was the original cause and of course one contingent went entirely off-course and marched around Germany rioting and occasionally besieging cities instead.

[Eldan]

...The owners of Doritos and Mountain Dew, I'm guessing.

I would have gone with someone like Green Ronin or Mongoose who published books under the OGL.

[BWR]

2e had a historical campaign supplement called "The Crusades". That's the closest you'll get.

[MrStabby]

Are you asking if there is a correlation between the success of an edition of D&D and the success of the crusade with the corresponding number?

Possibly mildly, but not sure what you are trying to prove?



So there is bound to be some correlation due to the structure of the enterprises. Do something, have enough success to keep doing it 4 more times implies that at least the first couple have to be pretty strong. If we consider viable runs of strong and weak editions/crusades - perhaps with the criterion that they will stop if the failures/weak editions ever outnumber the successes and we consider only those strings of editions/crusades that are 5 items long then the chances of a correlation by chance are pretty high (crude calculation using Catalan numbers).

Also, if you map edition 3.5 to the 4th crusade and 3 to the third crusade then the pattern kind of goes.

Finally, 5th edition seems to be doing pretty well. Popular if not a huge revenue stream - further splat/content may make the revenue stream better - maybe revisit it when 6th comes out.

[RazorChain]

If DnD editions are crusades, what is Pathfinder?

The mongol invasion

[Vrock_Summoner]

Finally, 5th edition seems to be doing pretty well. Popular if not a huge revenue stream - further splat/content may make the revenue stream better - maybe revisit it when 6th comes out.

It's almost 3 AM and I absolutely read this at first as waiting for the 6th Crusade to happen to revisit the topic, rather than the far more likely intended meaning of waiting for the 6th Edition to get accurate success figures on the 5th Edition.