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  1. - Top - End - #331
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    We always do a "session 0" where we create characters together, though as above that doesn't stop people arriving at concepts which aren't perfectly aligned with the premise. What it does is make for a more collaborative group, which is our general goal.
    How do you handle things that a player wants to keep secret (about their PC) from other players?
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    How do you handle things that a player wants to keep secret (about their PC) from other players?
    We don't. Haven't done that in years, secrets are easier to keep if the players are in on it, so that they know their characters aren't.
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  3. - Top - End - #333
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    What Kiero said. If players are capable of distinguishing IC/OOC knowledge, then hiding information is generally redundant- the game just banks on suspense, instead of surprise. (It also helps to avoid some of the annoyingly paranoid player tactics that you'll see in other games. "I advance ten feet. I look around. Can I get a spot check? I advance another ten feet.")
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  4. - Top - End - #334
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    What Kiero said. If players are capable of distinguishing IC/OOC knowledge, then hiding information is generally redundant- the game just banks on suspense, instead of surprise. (It also helps to avoid some of the annoyingly paranoid player tactics that you'll see in other games. "I advance ten feet. I look around. Can I get a spot check? I advance another ten feet.")
    Yep, me and mine are all well out of our teenage years and have been playing for decades. We're perfectly comfortable separating what player and character know from each other, and happy to screw our characters when it makes for a more entertaining game as players.
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  5. - Top - End - #335
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    We don't. Haven't done that in years, secrets are easier to keep if the players are in on it, so that they know their characters aren't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    What Kiero said. If players are capable of distinguishing IC/OOC knowledge, then hiding information is generally redundant- the game just banks on suspense, instead of surprise. (It also helps to avoid some of the annoyingly paranoid player tactics that you'll see in other games. "I advance ten feet. I look around. Can I get a spot check? I advance another ten feet.")
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    Yep, me and mine are all well out of our teenage years and have been playing for decades. We're perfectly comfortable separating what player and character know from each other, and happy to screw our characters when it makes for a more entertaining game as players.
    I don't think it's a matter of maturity, as implied here.

    Some of our best moments in campaigns I've been in have come from things that players didn't share with each other about their characters, until it came out in the actual game.

    The Imperial double-then-triple agent in our long-running Star Wars game. He managed to be awarded a real Imperial medal and hand over a data card full of crucial information to his boss, right in front of one of the other PCs, when the other PC thought it was part of his cover. If the other players had known what was going on, it would have ruined the eventual reveal.... which included the other PC's indignant exclamation "Wait... you got a real medal for spying on us while I stood there and watched!"

    Or the character I played who had some ability to use and control the "strange magic tech" of the extradiminsional invaders in a fantasy setting... because she was "1/4" that species by ancestry. This was a completely homebrew game, and I had to pre-approve this with the GM. Had the other players known, it would have taken the mystery out of it.

    I think that in part this gets into the difference between immersion/character-driven and narrative-driven gaming, and how they sometimes have conflicting needs. And different gaming groups have different things that work for them.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2017-09-02 at 12:40 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #336
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Trying to get my brain back into this fully. Got distracted by GenCon and some other stuff, and then had some of those little betrayals in life happen leaving me angry and a bit bitter for a while.


    Some stuff I'm pondering right now.

    Do any of the more powerful rulers have a "second city" that serves as a summer palace or fortified retreat?

    Where are The Games held? I think some sort of games are very fitting to the feel of the setting.

    Need to place a prominent Oracle or two.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  7. - Top - End - #337
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Why not have more than one Games, as there was in the ancient world? They had the Olympic, Pythean, Nemean and Isthmian Games. Each one on a staggered, four-year cycle so there were major games somewhere every year.
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    Why not have more than one Games, as there was in the ancient world? They had the Olympic, Pythean, Nemean and Isthmian Games. Each one on a staggered, four-year cycle so there were major games somewhere every year.
    Probably a good idea. I'm just starting from the very broad conclusion that I need to have "games".

    Looking through one of the books I picked up for research... saw some pictures of the remains of "hotels" near Olympia that were supposedly built to get the visitors out of the squalid, fly-plagued tent camps that they had started staying in as the games grew in popularity and the number of visitors had ballooned. Made me think both of the games, and of how the need for hotel space reminded me of the way Indianapolis filled up for GenCon.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2017-09-06 at 03:29 PM.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  9. - Top - End - #339
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Some stuff I'm pondering right now.

    Do any of the more powerful rulers have a "second city" that serves as a summer palace or fortified retreat?

    Where are The Games held? I think some sort of games are very fitting to the feel of the setting.

    Need to place a prominent Oracle or two.
    Chrysaor would map to Delphi pretty well, and I'm guessing Nomos would have a cadre of diviners for strategic planning purposes? Would some of the Kataru have an astrology/fate connection?

    Skala seems like the obvious solution for a fortified position, if some of the colony cities function as a primary capital?

    I do like the Games idea. If you wanted a 'roman arena' variant, maybe Aionopolis would have a suitable thunderdome-scrappers feel, or Zarada, for the melting-pot angle?
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  10. - Top - End - #340
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Note the Roman variation didn't spring up in a vacuum. It comes from the tradition of holding funeral games for a recently-deceased person of prominence. They were originally athletic contests (that might include combat sports like boxing and wrestling) not fights to the death.
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Aionopolis might well have some sort of warped gladiatorial games linked to the death cults that have arisen since the disaster. Before the disaster, they probably had elaborate Games as part of the "circuit", given the city's prestige and pride.

    Zarada definitely has Games, gotta show off the wealth, right?

    There will be at least one "cult" that practices funerary games in the early Roman style, before they turned into bloody mass spectacle.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2017-09-07 at 10:24 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #342
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    So... ever feel caught between sticking to your worldbuilding principles, and the fact that the eventual purpose of a fictional world is to be a place where enjoyable fiction or enjoyable games take place?
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    hahahaha YES. This is something I struggle with all the time. I'm not sure if this is the best approach, but here's how I've handled it.

    I build the world to my heart's content, fleshing out regions, cultures, and trivia about the region I want to play in. Mostly only in broad strokes, but with pockets of detailed explanation. For example, I have a large pseudo-Roman/early Renaissance Italy empire. Most of it's cities only have a name and a sentence of facts, but the entire secret police organization is mapped out in painstaking detail because they struck me as particularly interesting.

    When it's time to game though, I focus in on a microcosm and only mention the outside world where it relates to the story. I'll lay the ground rules of the setting and a two paragraph summary of what the heck is going on politically/historically/culturally as it pertains to the players. Even though I have a whole backstory for the city they're in, I'll only allude to it, mention it in passing, in game unless the players want more info. As the game evolves and players become more invested, I work in more details of the setting gradually.

    This way, the players are free to engage with the setting as much as they want, but I have the satisfaction of building my world they way I like. Also, it makes me seem smarter than I am because I can answer off the wall questions easily, since I've already figured it out in the background. Case in point: the construction of traditional merchant ships from a country 1000 miles away in a campaign limited to a single city.

  14. - Top - End - #344
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    So... ever feel caught between sticking to your worldbuilding principles, and the fact that the eventual purpose of a fictional world is to be a place where enjoyable fiction or enjoyable games take place?
    As daria would put it, only when I'm awake.

    I don't have much to add to what NRSASD said, so I'll just say some rough experimental play-testing might not be a bad move at this stage in development. It might give you a better idea of what players tend to bump up against.
    Last edited by Lacuna Caster; 2017-09-17 at 07:46 AM.
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by NRSASD View Post
    hahahaha YES. This is something I struggle with all the time. I'm not sure if this is the best approach, but here's how I've handled it.

    I build the world to my heart's content, fleshing out regions, cultures, and trivia about the region I want to play in. Mostly only in broad strokes, but with pockets of detailed explanation. For example, I have a large pseudo-Roman/early Renaissance Italy empire. Most of it's cities only have a name and a sentence of facts, but the entire secret police organization is mapped out in painstaking detail because they struck me as particularly interesting.

    When it's time to game though, I focus in on a microcosm and only mention the outside world where it relates to the story. I'll lay the ground rules of the setting and a two paragraph summary of what the heck is going on politically/historically/culturally as it pertains to the players. Even though I have a whole backstory for the city they're in, I'll only allude to it, mention it in passing, in game unless the players want more info. As the game evolves and players become more invested, I work in more details of the setting gradually.

    This way, the players are free to engage with the setting as much as they want, but I have the satisfaction of building my world they way I like. Also, it makes me seem smarter than I am because I can answer off the wall questions easily, since I've already figured it out in the background. Case in point: the construction of traditional merchant ships from a country 1000 miles away in a campaign limited to a single city.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    As daria would put it, only when I'm awake.

    I don't have much to add to what NRSASD said, so I'll just say some rough experimental play-testing might not be a bad move at this stage in development. It might give you a better idea of what players tend to bump up against.

    System is a ways out yet, I'd have to temporarily run it in an existing system.

    The issue I was thinking of is the conflict between strict "what makes sense in this world", versus "this is a place people go to experience interesting things and engaging stories", that can come up.

    The Wilder or one of the other species might not be entirely fitting, I don't know, but to me they're just plain interesting, dare I say that they're just plain cool.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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  16. - Top - End - #346
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    You've just explained why I prefer to run straight history; I don't have to make those sorts of judgement calls. The setting is there for me to discover, rather than fabricate, and it's rich and varied enough that as a GM I never get bored of researching it.
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  17. - Top - End - #347
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    You've just explained why I prefer to run straight history; I don't have to make those sorts of judgement calls. The setting is there for me to discover, rather than fabricate, and it's rich and varied enough that as a GM I never get bored of researching it.
    It's tempting sometimes to go that route.

    I don't think I can fit some of the things I want from this into a historical setting.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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  18. - Top - End - #348
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    It's tempting sometimes to go that route.

    I don't think I can fit some of the things I want from this into a historical setting.
    I don't much like magic or monsters in my RPGs, so going straight doesn't entail the loss of anything I need in a setting.
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  19. - Top - End - #349
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    I don't much like magic or monsters in my RPGs, so going straight doesn't entail the loss of anything I need in a setting.
    Makes sense. I wasn't questioning your preference, just explaining why it's not an easy route for what I'm trying to do.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2017-09-19 at 08:28 AM.
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    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

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  20. - Top - End - #350
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Gotta do something to jumpstart my brain on this project. Spent a lot of time staring at the map... I think I need to pull out some of my research books and read for a week or two to break the rust off those gears.

    Since magic was mentioned, I'll give a the 50-cent post on that.

    "Magic" is a kinda generic word, and has baggage, so eventually I want to really minimize the usage of that word. For now, it's easier to use it as a placeholder.


    Most magic in this setting is subtle, and low-key, enhancing craftwork and herbs and concoctions, making life a little easier and human endeavors somewhat more effective. It's worked through bargaining with or placating spirits, appealing to them via offerings and sacrifices, correct words and deeds, and avoiding taboos. Bronze or steel might come out with better purity, holding a better edge or resistant to corrosion. The herbal remedy for an infected wound is a little more reliable and effective, maybe it's the spirit's touch or maybe it's the exact right kind of mold the spirit pointed the herbalist to. This sort of magic comes from "clean" spirits, from nature and elemental spirits, to family ancestors and renowned heroes and craftspeople of the past, to local and guild deities, up to the most high Kataru themselves.


    "Unclean" spirits, the dalkhu (denizens of the dark world, born of The Black Blood), can also be called upon for magic, which is in turns more overt and more sinister. To traffic in these forbidden and blasphemous sorceries is to risk one's soul and sanity -- it is a constant question whether those who lose their minds to these dark arts are more or less dangerous than those who are able to maintain their self-mastery in the face of such strange and wicked forces. The Black Blood is akin to metaphysical or spiritual "antimatter", separated out when the universe came into being and all the things that made up life and light and growth were shaped into reality. These sorcerers are usually corrupted madmen, or fastidious paranoids, or both. Involves mastery of countless sigils and seals, and an expertise in precise wording, long ago handed down from Kalesh Sarrat Irkalli.


    Rare individuals with "strange blood" in their family lines (from long ago) are able to call on some magic of their own, or more easily communicate with spirits.


    Rarest of all are those privy to the secret philosophies and practices of "white magic", which in a way turns lucid dreaming on its head, bringing the dreaming state into the waking world instead of a conscious state into dreams, and thus the ability for the theurge to work his will on the reality around him. The wonder workers of this tradition are secretive in the extreme, vetting prospective inductees for years before sharing the slightest hint of what they do, and shrouding their true nature and abilities behind a veil of hokum and half-truth. Most who stumble upon these secrets on their own, and even some who are deemed ready by the learned masters, are permanently lost to "the dream", catatonic and insensate. The dark truth of white magic is that it was taught to mortals by the Anzillu goddess Evettazi the Waking Dreamer in the past age, before the fall of those deities.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2017-09-29 at 10:59 AM.
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    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

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  21. - Top - End - #351
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    "Magic" is a kinda generic word, and has baggage, so eventually I want to really minimize the usage of that word. For now, it's easier to use it as a placeholder.
    Per my reply in the other thread, I like the way you are approaching magic, in terms of each form having a price or a limitation. This for that. It's a good basic outline.

    As to Mazes and Minotaurs, I need to check that link from a different PC, I have a pdf of it that was downloaded a few years ago. Legendary game studios ..

    This is the link that I first found it on, and at the time I got to another link to download the pdf file. This is where I got the core rules and here is an article with more info.

    http://storygame.free.fr/MM1.html

    Looks like there are a few supplements.

    Best wishes, sorry for the late answer.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-10-02 at 03:27 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #352
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Finally read through Mazes & Minotaurs.

    Given my aversion to levels and classes, it's not a system I'd use. It does have some interesting thoughts on magic and other mechanics that are worth adding to the mental library.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2017-10-23 at 10:43 PM.
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  23. - Top - End - #353
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    For anyone who was following this, I haven't abandoned it.

    It just turns out to be an order of magnitude more involved if I want to do it right.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    For anyone who was following this, I haven't abandoned it.

    It just turns out to be an order of magnitude more involved if I want to do it right.
    Have you come up with a list of goals or milestones for this? I find that a project plan is useful for this sort of thing to keep focused and avoid getting too far into the weeds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinker View Post
    Have you come up with a list of goals or milestones for this? I find that a project plan is useful for this sort of thing to keep focused and avoid getting too far into the weeds.
    That's what I've sort of been working on instead of random content when I've had time, which is both how I realized that the scope is so big and why nothing much has been posted in the way of new stuff. In a way, I think I got intimidated by the scale once I stopped to think about it... I might have been better off just plowing forward with the pure joy of creating stuff, and then putting it together in organized fashion once I had more done.

    (Between work being nuts, being sick, and adopting a cat, the last month or so has been low on available time, too.)
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  26. - Top - End - #356
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    That's what I've sort of been working on instead of random content when I've had time, which is both how I realized that the scope is so big and why nothing much has been posted in the way of new stuff. In a way, I think I got intimidated by the scale once I stopped to think about it... I might have been better off just plowing forward with the pure joy of creating stuff, and then putting it together in organized fashion once I had more done.

    (Between work being nuts, being sick, and adopting a cat, the last month or so has been low on available time, too.)
    I get it. Life can find a way of interfering with even our most ambitious goals.

    As for the scope, it can certainly feel intimidating. Lord knows that I've given up on many projects once I've realized how big they are, but when I am passionate about a project, having a plan really helps me. I feel accomplishment when I meet a milestone (and is usually accompanied by a break from the project for at least a few days). The hard part is figuring out how to break it down into bite-sized goals. Let us know if you would like any help. I'm sure there are playgrounders happy to pitch in.

  27. - Top - End - #357
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    A quote from Yora's sig comes to mind as well...

    "The moment you achieve a meaningful level of skill and understanding of something, whole new vistas of possibility open up in front of you and now instead of being good at what you have been doing you are bad at what you will be doing." - Patrick Stuart
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  28. - Top - End - #358
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Add having to have the engine in my car replaced, and the holidays, and more work stuff, and etc, to the list of distractions.

    So... rough running list of topics I need to cover, just for the setting (not even touching on system yet, that's a parallel list).


    Overview

    Geography and Climates

    Cities / Polities
    Nomos
    Zarada
    Atavgea
    Godorod
    Aioniapolis
    Skala
    Byrsa
    (war city #1, winner, ruled by queen)
    (war city #2, loser, was important to trade of something rare and crucial)
    Chrysaor
    Amphitryon
    Aratta
    Melukha
    (southern forests)
    (mountains)
    (turpan towns)
    ("celtic" lands)


    “intelligent species”
    Humans
    Tirzuk
    Wilder
    Gaz
    Lamia
    Faceless


    Daily Life
    Food and Drink
    Housing
    Clothing
    Customs, Rituals, and Taboos
    Birth, Childhood, Marriage, Old Age, Death, etc
    Class, Poverty, and Wealth
    Trades, Jobs, etc
    Law and Justice
    Technology, Tools, etc
    Weapons, Armor, and War
    Colonies and Colonization
    Economy, Currency, and Trade
    Weights and Measures
    Medicine and Health


    Cultures
    "The Cities" (Greekish)
    "the old culture" (Sumerianish)
    "lowland celts"
    "horse celts"
    "southern forests"
    "mountain tribes"
    "turpan towns"
    "riverlands"
    "desert/steppes"

    Religion
    The Kataru
    Local Gods, Family Gods, Ancestors and Heroes, Animism
    Philosophies, Cults, Mysteries, and Heretics
    Anzillu



    "Magic"
    Animism, Alchemy, and Strange Blood
    Sorcery - Black Magic
    Theurgy - White Magic


    ~~~~

    Part of the problem I'm having is finding research sources that aren't pop-history pablum, and yet aren't written by academics for academics who seem at least as interested in learning to in turn write for other academics. I'm serious about the subject matter, and deeply curious, but I am not and never will be an academic.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2018-01-19 at 03:16 PM.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  29. - Top - End - #359
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Add having to have the engine in my car replaced, and the holidays, and more work stuff, and etc, to the list of distractions.

    So... rough running list of topics I need to cover, just for the setting (not even touching on system yet, that's a parallel list).


    Overview

    Geography and Climates

    Cities / Polities
    Nomos
    Zarada
    Atavgea
    Godorod
    Aioniapolis
    Skala
    Byrsa
    (war city #1, winner, ruled by queen)
    (war city #2, loser, was important to trade of something rare and crucial)
    Chrysaor
    Amphitryon
    Aratta
    Melukha
    (southern forests)
    (mountains)
    (turpan towns)
    ("celtic" lands)


    “intelligent species”
    Humans
    Tirzuk
    Wilder
    Gaz
    Lamia
    Faceless


    Daily Life
    Food and Drink
    Housing
    Clothing
    Customs, Rituals, and Taboos
    Birth, Childhood, Marriage, Old Age, Death, etc
    Class, Poverty, and Wealth
    Trades, Jobs, etc
    Law and Justice
    Technology, Tools, etc
    Weapons, Armor, and War
    Colonies and Colonization


    Cultures
    "The Cities" (Greekish)
    "the old culture" (Sumerianish)
    "lowland celts"
    "horse celts"
    "southern forests"
    "mountain tribes"
    "turpan towns"
    "riverlands"

    Religion
    The Kataru
    Local Gods, Family Gods, Ancestors and Heroes, Animism
    Philosophies, Cults, Mysteries, and Heretics
    Anzillu



    "Magic"
    Animism, Alchemy, and Strange Blood
    Sorcery - Black Magic
    Theurgy - White Magic


    ~~~~

    Part of the problem I'm having is finding research sources that aren't pop-history pablum, and yet aren't written by academics for academics who seem at least as interested in learning to in turn write for other academics. I'm serious about the subject matter, and deeply curious, but I am not and never will be an academic.
    Wikipedia actually isn't terrible for a number of historical overviews- a lot of pages have good sources and citations (and historians obsessed on their topics and who spend too much time online instead of writing their books might help keep things in order).

    I'm actually a student of classics and history (the dreaded academic) so I might have answers to specific questions or know a professor that knows. But there's too much on this list to know where to start. Also- it's ok to invent things out of whole cloth for your setting too, right? I mean, you aren't literally trying to make an exact simulated copy of the 4th century mediterranean.

  30. - Top - End - #360
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    Default Re: How to -- 4th century BCE setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    Wikipedia actually isn't terrible for a number of historical overviews- a lot of pages have good sources and citations (and historians obsessed on their topics and who spend too much time online instead of writing their books might help keep things in order).

    I'm actually a student of classics and history (the dreaded academic) so I might have answers to specific questions or know a professor that knows. But there's too much on this list to know where to start. Also- it's ok to invent things out of whole cloth for your setting too, right? I mean, you aren't literally trying to make an exact simulated copy of the 4th century mediterranean.
    There's a lot already that's "made up". It's not set on Earth, the history is different, etc. "4th century BCE" has ended up being more about cultural and aesthetic feel than slavish precision. Also trying to weave in the Sumerian-like and Minoan-like elements of the past cultures, etc.

    I'm trying to create a setting that feels like it could be a real place, and descriptions of the elements of that setting that provide depth and breadth (and breath), and give players a sense of what it's like for their characters to live in that setting as people, rather than as game pieces or narrative index cards -- and at the same time a setting where fantastic things and engaging interactions and (yes) great stories can occur. I have to avoid the trap of a setting that's kinda static and exists just for its own sake, or that's so oppressively "real" that it smothers out the fun.

    Many gaming settings focus on the world only as it applies to the "going on adventures, killing monsters, getting treasures, doing amazing things" elements. All of that is important for gaming, but I also want to know what people eat, and what they wear, and what their houses are like, and how all of those things are made and grown. What are their family lives like, how do they raise their children, how educated are they, what do they think and believe and feel and fear and hope? I'm not suggesting a "slice of life" game with no "adventures", but I do want the rest of the character's lives to at least be informative for the players.


    E: And then on top of that I need to find of create a system that actually works for what I want. So far, I've found no extant system that really hits all the buttons and avoids all the no-go elements.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2018-01-11 at 02:10 PM.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

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