Shamans as Druids, Ranger conversion

[Xuincherguixe]

For the monster campaign I've been doing some think'n. I think I'd like to stick to just the SRD for the most part.

I've also been thinking about how to deal with Shamans, because it is going to be a pretty crucial part of the game. Nothing about the Druid class makes me think they can't work as Shamans. I know that both Complete Divine's Spirit Shaman, and Shaman Hand Book's Shaman (by far the better choice in my opinion) favor Charisma as it's ability, and I really like the idea of Shaman's with Charisma linked spell casting.

Now, I don't know if I'll actually do this or not, but does the idea of a variant spontaneous Druid, that replaces wisdom with charisma pose any significant problems? I'd free up alignment restrictions, maybe add a skill or two.

And, would a simple Wisdom->Charisma adjustment but still using prepared spells (kind of unprecedented) be unbalanced? Unprecedented, doesn't make too much sense, but would it wreck games?

I bring that last one up because the thought occurs about different sorts of Shamans (as Druid variants). So, each character would get a choice, prepared vs spontaneous, wisdom vs charisma. (It's going to be a point buy incidently)


Also, while Druid -> Shaman logically follows. Ranger... doesn't convert to a Shaman theme too well. A Warrior Shaman would fit into the game well but Ranger just doesn't fit. It almost makes more sense to start with the Paladin than Ranger!

Not only that, but both Fighters and Barbarians seem like they fill in the 'Warrior' part. Now I'm thinking hey, this sounds like it would make for a good prestige class.


And, now for the really crazy ideas...Spontaneous Partial Casters! And while at first the thought of Paladins with Charisma linked spell casting would make Paladins much stronger... that may not be a bad thing. This last issue isn't so much a concern, just one of my many many tangents. No Sines for me and Cosines are just sick.

I WILL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH COSINES.

[Draz74]

The only real (balance) issue with what you're saying is that, if Druid spellcasting doesn't depend on Wisdom at all, it will become a dump stat for the class. To me, a divine caster (especially a shaman) with Wisdom dumped is horribly, horribly wrong.

Something like a Favored Soul / Druid hybrid would be fine though. (Druid abilities instead of F.S. class features, and casting from the Druid spell list.) ... that is, fine if you don't already mind the incredible broken-ness that is Wild Shape.

Or, if you have Complete Psionic and you reflavor it so that Psionics and Magic are no different from each other, then the Ardent and Divine Mind, with nature-friendly mantles picked, make a great Caster Shaman/Warrior Shaman pair that contrast each other well.

[Xuincherguixe]

The only real (balance) issue with what you're saying is that, if Druid spellcasting doesn't depend on Wisdom at all, it will become a dump stat for the class. To me, a divine caster (especially a shaman) with Wisdom dumped is horribly, horribly wrong.

Heh.

The thing is though, if you don't have Charisma linked spell casting, that becomes the dump stat.

Something like a Favored Soul / Druid hybrid would be fine though. (Druid abilities instead of F.S. class features, and casting from the Druid spell list.) ... that is, fine if you don't already mind the incredible broken-ness that is Wild Shape.

Not familiar with Favored Soul. I also want to keep the game mostly close to the SRD.

Or, if you have Complete Psionic and you reflavor it so that Psionics and Magic are no different from each other, then the Ardent and Divine Mind, with nature-friendly mantles picked, make a great Caster Shaman/Warrior Shaman pair that contrast each other well.

That's not bad actually. I'm not sure if I'll be adding psionics, but it would fit the game. Already there's some strong Lovecraftian elements (There's already a Dark God of Dark gods that's a black hole). Psionics + Shamans make a good mix. Still, I think I'd rather keep a Shamanic Warrior as close to the regular classes as possible. That is, I'd like to limit it mostly to Barbarian, Fighter, and Druid spheres. Because Barbarians and Fighters both make sense, it really seems like it might make a good prestige class. And I was planning to make up a few for this anyways.


It was brought up that it might be the sort of thing I could publish under the OGL, and sell. But that's really only part of the reason I'm sticking with the SRD. It's also a pretty convenient package. And if I don't sell it, I'll probably be putting it up for free. So I'd like it to be easy for people to use (not requiring them to buy a million books and all). Lots of books would work well, but I don't want to require people to use them. Savage species is kind of a must, for obvious reasons (it's a Monster Campaign).

[Draz74]

The thing is though, if you don't have Charisma linked spell casting, that becomes the dump stat.

Doesn't bother me for a shaman type. But you can certainly make spellcasting depend on both, like many of the newer caster classes do. I'm always in favor of a little MAD to nerf spellcasters down a bit.

Not familiar with Favored Soul. I also want to keep the game mostly close to the SRD.

The Favored Soul, found in Complete Divine, is a spontaneous full divine caster. It has the Cleric spell list, but knows a limited number of spells, and its spellcasting is based on both Wis and Cha. Wis determines save DCs, while Cha determines both the maximum level of spell you can use, and Bonus Spells. It also gets other class features, which are detailed pretty well here.

The only thing tricky about the Favored Soul, really, that you might need to know is its Spells Known table, which isn't quite like anything in the SRD. You can probably do OK, though, by using the Sorcerer Spells Known table and also allowing your shamans to pick a domain or two that automatically become Spells Known.

That's not bad actually. I'm not sure if I'll be adding psionics, but it would fit the game. Already there's some strong Lovecraftian elements (There's already a Dark God of Dark gods that's a black hole). Psionics + Shamans make a good mix. Still, I think I'd rather keep a Shamanic Warrior as close to the regular classes as possible. That is, I'd like to limit it mostly to Barbarian, Fighter, and Druid spheres. Because Barbarians and Fighters both make sense, it really seems like it might make a good prestige class. And I was planning to make up a few for this anyways.

Heh, my suggestion actually works better if there aren't psionics in the setting. At least, in terms of fluff. I love the mechanics of psionics, but their fluff only works in a few settings.

A Shaman Warrior PrC that combines Barbarian and Druid progression could work. It would be really cool, except for the way that Druids are so broken that anything based on them will be overpowered too. Or to get a little simpler, how about a simple Variant Barbarian?

Lose: Trap Sense, Damage Reduction
Gain: Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill, spellcasting (as Ranger)

[Xuincherguixe]

Doesn't bother me for a shaman type. But you can certainly make spellcasting depend on both, like many of the newer caster classes do. I'm always in favor of a little MAD to nerf spellcasters down a bit.

I'll keep it in mind if I come up with any particularly new classes :P

A Shaman Warrior PrC that combines Barbarian and Druid progression could work. It would be really cool, except for the way that Druids are so broken that anything based on them will be overpowered too. Or to get a little simpler, how about a simple Variant Barbarian?

Lose: Trap Sense, Damage Reduction
Gain: Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill, spellcasting (as Ranger)

That's seems fairly strong. I know the Ranger list is hardly anything special, but it seems like it's a pretty unbalanced trade. Mind you, anything that helps Warriors is good but what Barbarian wouldn't take that option if he had a chance?