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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Sep 2015

    Default Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    In all honesty this doesn't seem like something a Druid would do, so Ritual Casting Feat (or Warlock) would be the way to go.

    Spoiler: Ritual Casting
    Show
    "Ritual Casting

    Certain spells have a special tag: ritual. Such a spell can be cast following the normal rules for spellcasting, or the spell can be cast as a ritual. The ritual version of a spell takes 10 minutes longer to cast than normal. It also doesn’t expend a spell slot, which means the ritual version of a spell can’t be cast at a higher level.

    To cast a spell as a ritual, a spellcaster must have a feature that grants the ability to do so. The cleric and the druid, for example, have such a feature. The caster must also have the spell prepared or on his or her list of spells known, unless the character’s ritual feature specifies otherwise, as the wizard’s does."


    Spoiler: Animal Messenger
    Show
    "Animal Messenger


    2nd-level enchantment (ritual)

    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: V, S, M (a morsel of food)
    Duration: 24 hours

    By means of this spell, you use an animal to deliver a message. Choose a Tiny beast you can see within range, such as a squirrel, a blue jay, or a bat. You specify a location, which you must have visited, and a recipient who matches a general description, such as “a man or woman dressed in the uniform of the town guard” or “a red-haired dwarf wearing a pointed hat.” You also speak a message of up to twenty-five words. The target beast travels for the duration of the spell toward the specified location, covering about 50 miles per 24 hours for a flying messenger, or 25 miles for other animals.

    When the messenger arrives, it delivers your message to the creature that you described, replicating the sound of your voice. The messenger speaks only to a creature matching the description you gave. If the messenger doesn’t reach its destination before the spell ends, the message is lost, and the beast makes its way back to where you cast this spell.

    At Higher Levels: If you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the duration of the spell increases by 48 hours for each slot level above 2nd."


    The tiny beast is still a beast and only automatically comes back if they don't arrive at their destination in time.

    So lets get a bunch of Poisonous Snakes Flying Snakes... Like, a lot.

    So for 18 hours a day (we allow for two short rests so that eating can be done plus give these suckers some time to get to their destination) each level 3 druid caster will be casting Animal Messenger. That will be 108 Flying Sneks (18 hours = 1,080 mins = 106 10.1-min castings). Probably won't need more casting but if we have two or three druids casters... Overkill is nice.

    Animal Messenger them while they are in their cage. The spell lasts for 24 hours so we want to be close-ish to the enemy's lair. This could be an orc chieftain or maybe a politician...

    Let them loose. You now have (106 * # of Druids Casters) Flying Snakes coming directly at some poor dude. Have the message be one word, something short, something that doesn't link these snakes to you "hiss" works well.

    Once they give the message... Well, they are going to be snakes. Snakes have one real option when startled, which with the mass panic that will be going on, which is bite the hell out of all living things.

    This would take some time to set up but I find it fun that a group of level 3 players could send (106 * N) snakes to an enemy. Or if you want to take out a town... NPC commoners are quite easy to kill after all.

    AC: 13
    HP: 2
    +5 to hit, 1 damage + (2d4 Poison damage, DC 10 save half)

    A lot of these snakes are going to die, which is why this is very Druid. However with massive numbers comes massive casualties. Especially if you send these at night (2 or 3 AM) when most creatures will have disadvantage on seeing/attacking while the snakes have blindsight 10.

    Whoever you sent these after is going to fricken die.


    Note: All the snakes are let loose at once.

    Note 2: Make sure to release snakes from different directions. No running away.

    Note 3: At DPR 8 that's still 848 points of damage per PC doing this. 4 x 848 = 3,392 per round.

    If you think the snakes won't attack... Why would they attack an adventurer on sight but not anyone else? :p

    Note 4: This is the type of 3e/4e shenanigans I've missed.


    Jellypooga pointed out that Flying Snakes are an option. I was unaware that they were in the SRD lol

    I wonder if we could kill a dragon this way... Probably not but it would be a great way to start the battle :P

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Niiiiiiiiice. I had thought about strapping some kind of magical proximity mine to animals affected by Animal Messenger, but this idea is way better/easier to pull off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Is this a good OJEBUWIP WHAT IN THE NINE ABYSSES, or a bad OJFBUEWIP WHAT IN THE NINE ABYSSES?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Jake View Post
    "Oh no, I'm bleeding out of my eyes...it's only now that I see that the delivery fee isn't a substitute for tipping your pizza guy!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguss View Post
    "No" means "yes".
    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    My other idea was to be a troglodyte were-cockroach and just smell bad in people's squares.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    I'd allow it. But they'd have to go on quite a few excursions to capture all those snakes and to buy the cage.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    For extra points, open the cages into a pen so you can send them all in at once. A bunch of snakes showing up one at a time are easily dispatched, but a swarm just gets ridiculous!
    Quote Originally Posted by krugaan
    All it takes is once:

    "Grandpa, tells us that story about the Ricalison the Great again!"

    Hours later...

    "... and that, kids, is how he conquered the world with dancing lights."

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by ATHATH View Post
    Niiiiiiiiice. I had thought about strapping some kind of magical proximity mine to animals affected by Animal Messenger, but this idea is way better/easier to pull off.
    Thank you.

    I'm not sure about easier, hording snakes would suck.


    Quote Originally Posted by RickAllison View Post
    For extra points, open the cages into a pen so you can send them all in at once. A bunch of snakes showing up one at a time are easily dispatched, but a swarm just gets ridiculous!
    Yup, that's what I was thinking

    I'll make it more clear.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Why use Poisonous Snakes when Flying Snakes exist? Finding a nest of several hundred Flying Snakes is probably an issue to consider, but imagine finding that "motherlode" on some exotic island somewhere...
    I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.

    Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by JellyPooga View Post
    Why use Poisonous Snakes when Flying Snakes exist? Finding a nest of several hundred Flying Snakes is probably an issue to consider, but imagine finding that "motherlode" on some exotic island somewhere...
    I didn't see it in the SRD and only wanted to use SRD monsters... But I'll be dang... Flying Snakes are in the SRD...

    Flying Snakes it is!

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by R.Shackleford View Post
    Note 4: This is the type of 3e/4e shenanigans I've missed.
    Ah, the mailman druid. This looks like a great idea.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Another use of the spell in a similar way is just to sabotage someone's sleep cycle. Just send endless amounts of squirrels, birds, and bugs to transmit yelling at the other party. Good luck getting a long rest when you have bugs shouting at you at least every ten minutes...
    Quote Originally Posted by krugaan
    All it takes is once:

    "Grandpa, tells us that story about the Ricalison the Great again!"

    Hours later...

    "... and that, kids, is how he conquered the world with dancing lights."

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by XmonkTad View Post
    Ah, the mailman druid. This looks like a great idea.
    Hahaha yeah that's a great name for it... But I don't know if Druids would be ok with it...

    A lot of animal death that may be seen as needless.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickAllison View Post
    Another use of the spell in a similar way is just to sabotage someone's sleep cycle. Just send endless amounts of squirrels, birds, and bugs to transmit yelling at the other party. Good luck getting a long rest when you have bugs shouting at you at least every ten minutes...
    So the best anti-caster is a ritual caster?

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by R.Shackleford View Post
    Hahaha yeah that's a great name for it... But I don't know if Druids would be ok with it...

    A lot of animal death that may be seen as needless.



    So the best anti-caster is a ritual caster?
    I can see it now, a legendary archmage forced out of his quarters at night because he is bombarded by bumblebees. He would have to retreat to a Demiplane, or Teleport away to sleep soundly.

    Of course, that opens up his place to invasion...
    Quote Originally Posted by krugaan
    All it takes is once:

    "Grandpa, tells us that story about the Ricalison the Great again!"

    Hours later...

    "... and that, kids, is how he conquered the world with dancing lights."

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    This is super sweet.

    Pretty hard to rely on, though. "Hey boss, a buncha dumb snakes just slithered in the front gate." "Great. Inform the cooks."

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by RickAllison View Post
    I can see it now, a legendary archmage forced out of his quarters at night because he is bombarded by bumblebees. He would have to retreat to a Demiplane, or Teleport away to sleep soundly.

    Of course, that opens up his place to invasion...
    If a party of level 3 adventurers can cause a wizard to retreat to his or her demi plane...

    That wizard will be the laughing stock of the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by smcmike View Post
    This is super sweet.

    Pretty hard to rely on, though. "Hey boss, a buncha dumb snakes just slithered in the front gate." "Great. Inform the cooks."
    Flying snakes don't slither, they fly.

    Also if I don't think 106 - 426 flying snakes is going to be called "a bunch".



    Side Note: I now want to set up a world were there is a cold war going on. Instead of nukes everyone is on edge about a snake-tsunami.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by R.Shackleford View Post
    Side Note: I now want to set up a world were there is a cold war going on. Instead of nukes everyone is on edge about a snake-tsunami.
    Sigged.

    This sentence is here because of this forum's minimum character limit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Is this a good OJEBUWIP WHAT IN THE NINE ABYSSES, or a bad OJFBUEWIP WHAT IN THE NINE ABYSSES?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Jake View Post
    "Oh no, I'm bleeding out of my eyes...it's only now that I see that the delivery fee isn't a substitute for tipping your pizza guy!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguss View Post
    "No" means "yes".
    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    My other idea was to be a troglodyte were-cockroach and just smell bad in people's squares.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by ATHATH View Post
    Sigged.

    This sentence is here because of this forum's minimum character limit.
    Oh sweet!

    I could see someone in game going...

    This cold war just got... cold blooded

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Mar 2011

    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    That's an awesome and creative use of the spell, and perfectly legit for a Druid too, if the stakes are high enough (e.g. defiler of nature on the loose, etc. etc.). Worse comes to worse, he gets consent from the animals (via Speak with Animals) before he sends them.
    Last edited by NNescio; 2016-08-21 at 11:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    GitP: The only place where D&D and Cantorian Set Theory combine. Also a place of madness, and small fairy cakes.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    2 issues:

    1) the snakes are pretty weak, and ordinary lackeys (say, a thug) could easily 2v1 them. And any villain worth their salt will have a decent following occupying their base. Especially if said lackeys see them coming from 400ish feet away, which isn't a far stretch if there's hundreds of them flying in.

    2) you need to have visited the location that you're sending a message to. sure a rogue can sneak in and out, but that's not the caster. It would have to be a plan B.
    Spoiler: bad tactics
    Show


    I look at the lich and smirk a bit, as I bring myself back to my feet

    "What are you smiling about?" it says

    "hehe, it looks like you've made... a grave mistake :D"

    the bard, actively bleeding out on the ground *ba-dum-tss*

    "Ha! Nice try. Telling a bad joke to try to make your opponent drop their guard. Oldest trick in the book. Trust me, I was there."

    *barbarian falling, sword in hands, from the top of the castle wall directly above the lich*


  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Telok's Avatar

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Rabid vampire bats would do nicely. Yeah, they don't pose too much of a threat when they arrive since they'll just repeat the message, flutter around in a panic and leave. But they will be tired from the long flight so they won't go far, and that night they'll be hungry. You'll set off a rabies pandemic in the local mammal population, which is pretty dangerous in D&D land. Just a basic rabid dog is a deadly threat to a commoner.
    Niven's Laws, #5
    If you've nothing to say, say it any way you like. Stylistic innovations, contorted story lines or none, exotic or genderless pronouns, internal inconsistencies, the recipe for preparing your lover as a cannibal banquet: feel free. If what you have to say is important and/or difficult to follow, use the simplest language possible. If the reader doesn't get it then, let it not be your fault.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by R.Shackleford View Post
    If a party of level 3 adventurers can cause a wizard to retreat to his or her demi plane...

    That wizard will be the laughing stock of the world.
    Gets worse if one of his rivals is able to somehow open a Gate for them so the snakes can follow him. Then you have the poor wizard running around screaming, "I have had it with this m---f---ing snakes on ..."

    OK, never mind, I'm leaving now.
    -Christian
    "You're thinking of the 'peace and love' monks across the valley. We're the 'law and order' monks."

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxhound438 View Post
    2 issues:

    1) the snakes are pretty weak, and ordinary lackeys (say, a thug) could easily 2v1 them. And any villain worth their salt will have a decent following occupying their base. Especially if said lackeys see them coming from 400ish feet away, which isn't a far stretch if there's hundreds of them flying in.

    2) you need to have visited the location that you're sending a message to. sure a rogue can sneak in and out, but that's not the caster. It would have to be a plan B.
    All of this has been adressed.

    1: 106 snakes would be released at once (106 x #PCs doing this). A single person (or small group) can't kill enough for them to stop take heavy damage.

    1.a: They are being released at 2 am. Even with darkvision you have disadvantage on Perception checks (dim light). The snakes are being released at once from multiple directions.

    2: You are going to the place, no problem, you are even releasing the snakes at said place.

    ***

    In a bounded accuracy system such as 5e enough low CR creatures are still a threat for high CR creatures unless they have damage immunity.

    Like taking out a dragon with a bunch of commoners.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    The central problem is the assumption that they will attack. Also, windows.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by smcmike View Post
    The central problem is the assumption that they will attack. Also, windows.
    If you assume they won't attack when not under the animal messenger spell then why assume they will attack PCs on sight?

    PC walks into a cavery and there is three flying snakes... Do you roll initiative or do you say "what makes you think they will attack".

    My answer to that question is that they are snakes. They attack because they are snakes.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by R.Shackleford View Post
    If you assume they won't attack when not under the animal messenger spell then why assume they will attack PCs on sight?

    PC walks into a cavery and there is three flying snakes... Do you roll initiative or do you say "what makes you think they will attack".

    My answer to that question is that they are snakes. They attack because they are snakes.
    Actually, no, I don't assume that beasts attack on sight. Beasts are usually the sort of obstacle that can be overcome in a variety of ways - avoiding them, fighting them, scaring them off, or having the Druid talk pretty to them.

    If the PCs stumble into their nest, it's probably time for a fight. If they happen to see a flying snake hanging out in a nearby tree, they can either shoot it for supper or walk on by.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by smcmike View Post
    Actually, no, I don't assume that beasts attack on sight. Beasts are usually the sort of obstacle that can be overcome in a variety of ways - avoiding them, fighting them, scaring them off, or having the Druid talk pretty to them.

    If the PCs stumble into their nest, it's probably time for a fight. If they happen to see a flying snake hanging out in a nearby tree, they can either shoot it for supper or walk on by.
    So you are at work and 106 - 424 snakes suddenly make their way into your building and just snek-tsunami and fill up the room... that all the people are going to be fine and not get bit?

    I don't think snakes have a concept of home/not home and are pretty much just angry ropes.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by R.Shackleford View Post
    So you are at work and 106 - 424 snakes suddenly make their way into your building and just snek-tsunami and fill up the room... that all the people are going to be fine and not get bit?

    I don't think snakes have a concept of home/not home and are pretty much just angry ropes.
    If I'm at work, the snakes will slither (or fly) up to the exterior door, which will defeat them. Everyone will get up from their desks and gawk at the pile of snakes at the front door, and the security guard will presumably stop playing on his cell phone long enough to call animal control.

    If the snakes did make it inside, most everyone would be standing on their desks, which should be enough to be safe from real snakes.

    I'm really not criticizing this idea. I think it's great and fun. I just don't think it would actually do much. Most snakes only bite humans defensively.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by R.Shackleford View Post
    So you are at work and 106 - 424 snakes suddenly make their way into your building and just snek-tsunami and fill up the room... that all the people are going to be fine and not get bit?

    I don't think snakes have a concept of home/not home and are pretty much just angry ropes.
    I am literally the security guard on his cell phone for this, but that description of snakes is just so wrong and hilarious. If I were inclined to have a sig, you'd be in it.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Lots of problems with this...

    By means of this spell, you use an animal to deliver a message.
    It doesn't say that the animal does anything other than deliver a message. Nothing says it is going to attack creatures after speaking its message.

    Choose a Tiny beast you can see within range, such as a squirrel, a blue jay, or a bat.
    Where are you going to find 100+ animals sitting there for hours on end? You won't. If you just go some place, you find whatever animals are around. If you want a specific animal, you'd need to go track, search, or use locate animals. You then need the animal to stay around for 10 minutes as you chant for the ritual cast.

    So lets get a bunch of Poisonous Snakes Flying Snakes... Like, a lot.
    Where do you find the snakes? The spell does not summon animals. They must be present, within 30 feet, and willing to remain there for the 10 minute ritual cast. Sorry... how common are snakes in your area? What is the terrain like? What time of day is it that the snakes are out and about? How much time are you willing to spend traveling around? What are your survival and nature rolls like to find them? What other animals or creatures are also out and about and how many larger animals are you likely to run into while doing this?

    And if you are talking flying snakes... how do you manage to get within 30' and why are they sitting there for 10+ minutes while you ritual cast? Most are likely in fairly swampy, jungled, etc. areas. Is the campaign even set there?

    Animal Messenger them while they are in their cage.
    How did you get them into a cage? How many days, weeks, or months did you spend trying to get a hundred snakes into cages. Do you have a cart with 100+ cages? Where do you get the food to feed them?

    The spell lasts for 24 hours so we want to be close-ish to the enemy's lair. This could be an orc chieftain or maybe a politician...
    You are transporting 100+ snakes to within a few miles of an enemy's lair?

    "You specify a location, which you must have visited, and a recipient who matches a general description..."
    You must have been inside the lair. Kind of dangerous -- even with wildshape.

    Once they give the message... Well, they are going to be snakes. Snakes have one real option when startled, which with the mass panic that will be going on, which is bite the hell out of all living things.
    No. They are tiny snakes. They would do what tiny snakes would do when faced with a creature hundreds of times their size ... flee into the nearest hole, rock, woods, etc. Wild animals only attack for food, defending their young, defending themselves, startled, etc. A flying snake would presumably... fly away. They are not summoned, charmed, possessed, compelled, etc. other than to deliver a message. Nor does the spell say that they approach within 5' of the creature.

    Nor are they going to arrive over a long distance trip all at once -- even if you released 100+ animals over of a few minutes. Nor are mass numbers of such animals likely to make it miles without having attracted predators. Dogs, vultures, hawks, wolves, and pretty much anything in the area would be eating most of these.

    Even if you DM ruled that the snakes are aggressive... and attack anyone near them, then they should be biting you when you let them out of their cages or when you are capturing them? If the spell makes them non-aggressive until they deliver their message... after the first few snakes arrive and get aggressive, why don't the enemy or villagers just club the snakes to death one-by-one as they are arriving at the village and before/during them delivering their message.

    This would take some time to set up but I find it fun that a group of level 3 players could send (106 * N) snakes to an enemy. Or if you want to take out a town... NPC commoners are quite easy to kill after all.
    Ignoring that the spell doesn't say that the animals will attack anyone after the spell ends, nor would a tiny animal do so rather than flee... I'm sure townsfolk could figure out after the first few snakes 'attacked', that they can move 100' from the person the snakes are going towards... and beat the snakes to death with sticks as they move in. Or scare them away with torches, like fires, put up clouds of smoke, put the person in a building and let the snakes deliver their message from outside, etc.

    A lot of these snakes are going to die, which is why this is very Druid. However with massive numbers comes massive casualties. Especially if you send these at night (2 or 3 AM) when most creatures will have disadvantage on seeing/attacking while the snakes have blindsight 10.
    Or they light some torches and scare the snakes away.


    Whoever you sent these after is going to fricken die.
    Nothing in the spell says they attack anyone. Let alone, no reason a tiny animal would attack someone hundreds of times their size. Especially if they have fires or torches out -- which after the first few snakes, they would.

    All the snakes are let loose at once.
    Somewhat meaningless. Ignoring you can't open 100+ cages at once, 100+ animals traveling a distance of miles is going to be spread out over some time. Minutes, probably tens of minutes per mile.

    Make sure to release snakes from different directions. No running away.
    Now you have to surround a village, at pretty much the same travel distance. That means multiple carts (through the wilderness? on major roads?) and coordinate this within a few minutes.

    At DPR 8 that's still 848 points of damage per PC doing this. 4 x 848 = 3,392 per round.
    The spell does not compel them to attack random people before or after they deliver their message. Nor does the spell say that the creatures won't attack you, if the DM were to suddenly rule that they become massively aggressive creatures. They are far more likely to attack you while you are trying to collect them... along with the dozens of other encounters you are likely to face over the weeks of snake collecting in the wilderness.

    If you think the snakes won't attack... Why would they attack an adventurer on sight but not anyone else? :p
    They don't. Why would they attack adventurers? In any sane campaign, tiny creatures are going to flee, hide, etc. unless... (a) attacked themselves, (b) protecting lairs or young, (c) summoned, compelled, charmed, etc., (d) specifically trained to do so, or (e) unable to flee and obviously threatened. I see none of this. However, if the DM is going to rule that they attack anything on site... they would immediately attack you when you released them, every animal (dog, wolves, badger, crane, etc.) on the way (likely all dying over a half-mile), or each other (they certainly aren't all liter mates, same species, etc.)

    I've met lots of tiny snakes. I find them in my backyard all the time. I pick them up and toss them into a nearby bush. They attack spiders. Even poisonous ones... you push away with a rake and they slither off.


    Any good DM would see you nearly kills yourselves trying to collect the snakes -- both from being attacked by the snakes, or from random encounters in wilderness areas likely to have lots of poisonous snakes. Then spending vast amounts of time feeding, transporting, and caring for hundreds of snakes. Then, upon release... they go deliver their message and then fly/slither away. Probably summons hundreds of hawks, eagles, and other predators around the areas. A poor (or annoyed) DM who is willing to rule that 1' long snakes suddenly become aggressive lunatics... would immediately have them attack you upon release, or other animals or each other (most getting themselves killed).

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    Quote Originally Posted by BW022 View Post
    Lots of problems with this...



    It doesn't say that the animal does anything other than deliver a message. Nothing says it is going to attack creatures after speaking its message.

    See, I'm just going to respond to the first problem here.

    (first see note 4)

    You are saying that the creatures don't act like creatures after delivering the message. If you drop 100's of snakes into a room, would the snakes say "you know what, I delivered my message, lets go home".


    No, because they are snakes. Snakes aren't thinking like that. They don't have the intelligence to think like that.

    So you are already trying to make the creature not act like a creature.


  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    That's exactly how snakes think, though - they would head for the safest place to get could find, ASAP. If they perceived a threat, such as someone in their way, yeah, they might bite him. But the vast majority of snakes don't seek out people to attack.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

    So what we need then is a tiny beast (perferably flying) that more inclined than not to attack larger creatures.

    What we need to do is get a few hundred stirges...
    Why yes, Warlock is my solution for everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by obryn View Post
    Active Abilities are great because you - the player - are demonstrating your Dwarvenness or Elfishness. You're not passively a dwarf, you're actively dwarfing your way through obstacles.

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