[BitPR²] OOCVII: Kidnapping aunts for fun & profit

[KnightDisciple]

I can if you want me to.

I was mostly thinking that Naito's more noticeable out in the open. Then again, between "we're allied with Arrancar!" and "we're working with Quincies/Mortals", there's a lot to take in.

The way I see it if this comes out to no conflict, we probably shouldn't force one. Things lined up a bit differently than we initially thought.

That said, the main issue at hand here is whether Koutarou is a competent commander, which can still set up a dramatic narrative even if it doesn't come to blows.

True enough. There's other avenues of eventual conflict available, to be sure.

I'll try to poke at the conversations more a bit later today. I think this is why I've been a bit slow to respond, though; just trying to feel out how I want to approach the situation.

[Frozen_Feet]

That said, the main issue at hand here is whether Koutarou is a competent commander, which can still set up a dramatic narrative even if it doesn't come to blows.

There's a tangent related to that which may or may not come up depending on how closely the Royal Guard examines the Central 46's case:

Namely, Setsurou's proclamation, as it happened only a short time before Wan Li Lin's entry.

Wan Li Lin's intervention prevented any deeper examination of that event, but the Royal Guard digging that up could raise a lot of big questions about who is loyal to whom in Soul Society.

[Ammutseba]

True enough. There's other avenues of eventual conflict available, to be sure.

Did I hear my name?

[Kuroimaken]

There's a tangent related to that which may or may not come up depending on how closely the Royal Guard examines the Central 46's case:

Namely, Setsurou's proclamation, as it happened only a short time before Wan Li Lin's entry.

Wan Li Lin's intervention prevented any deeper examination of that event, but the Royal Guard digging that up could raise a lot of big questions about who is loyal to whom in Soul Society.

I remember back when Wan killed C46 I got some mixed feelings about it. On one side, it made Setsurou's grandstanding feel like it fell flat on its face. On the other, it felt almost like Wan did him a favor.

[Kuroimaken]

The real problem is that regardless of Masamune's thoughts, he would not have just mind-murdered them. I'm trying to find a way to leverage a conflict here, but between Wan Li Lin's actions being....questionable...and Koutarou basically throwing himself on his sword without being asked, it's tough to come up with a good conflict lever.

I think Dorizzit might inadvertently provide one now, but we'll see.

One might indeed feel pressured to ask why Koutarou seems so eager to take the blame for this without so much as trying to mount a proper defense for himself.

Even for someone as self-recriminating as Koutarou can be, there ought to be a limit. Maybe that limit lies in asking the perception of other esteemed members of the Gotei about their Commander.

It's just a thought, though.

[Frozen_Feet]

I can do a bulletpoint list of events concerning Central 46 if someone wants me to.

[Ammutseba]

I want you to!

[Frozen_Feet]

Things Central 46 did:

• Hearing Zheng Li Lin on potential problems and solutions Soul Society might face. Zheng Li Lin outlined two options: one, dropping the masquerade and stepping before UN as a nuclear power. Two, doubling down on the masquerade and relocating mediums into Soul Society. (AKA Project Fury) No decision was made either way and Zheng Li Lin retired to the Royal Guard immediately after, leaving Central 46 to chew on it.
• Nominating Hiraku Masaru as Combat Division Captain. (They offered him the spot as a Commander-General, but he declined and recommended Koutarou.
• Full approval of Hiraku Masaru's Project Suikoden. (An operation to improve conditions in Outer Rukon. The effects of this operation were sadly countered by those parts falling on Earth while their population was evacuated elsewhere.)
• Nominating Ishinomori Koutarou as Commander-General.
• Prohibiting Koutarou from using evil-cleansing powers of his Zanpakutou, as it might interfere with Hell's function.
• Granting Kobayashi Momoka amnesty for her crimes and reinstating her as member of SSI. (They asked her whether she'd be interested in a leadership decision, but she declined.)
• Stating no decision regarding Project Fury would be done before. Erscheinung Von Geister is dealt with.
• Ordering Ishinomori Koutarou to focus on Von Geister and granting Gotei full operational freedom in pursuit of this goal.
• Issuing a warning to Hishikawa Setsurou for licentiously turning off hospital cameras to have a "private discussion" with Hiraku Masaru, while the latter was still possessed by Izanami.
• Issuing a warning to Jehoel Yurius concerning Las Noches's inaction concerning Von Geister and Jehoel's own licentious actions as its leader. (Notably, building Haven behind Soul Society's back.)
• Deeming Soul Society's laws regarding electronic surveillance to be sufficient. (This was done in response to Koutarou asking if control of Seireitei's cameras could be shifted wholly to Internal Security. C46 considered this too big of a task for any single division, and in any case, Internal Security already had the power to confiscate equipment, recordings etc.. Arguably, Koutarou's issue was Koutetsu Hideki using control of said cameras to snoop, but he failed to make his case in that regard.)
• Bringing in Jehoel Yurius to discuss his charges. After hearing his explanation, C46 withheld from punitive actions, but sent Jehoel back with transcript of the meeting, wanting it to be seen (and responded to) by rest of the Espada. (In the process, it was revealed Hishikawa Setsurou, who was the acting ambassador of Soul Society in Las Noches, had willfully left untold Central 46's actual message to Jehoel. They'd brought in Jehoel to hear his response to the charges, now they had to start with telling them what they were.)
• Being unhappy with Setsurou's conduct as an ambassador, Central 46 decided he would be relieved from that duty, following one last mission (to make sure the transcript would be read and signed by all Espada.) This is when Setsurou decided to proclaim he was too important to be fired, and that his command of Onmitsukidou was independent of Central 46's jurispridence. Setsurou left before hearing Central 46's response.
• While pondering what to do about Setsurou, Wan Li Lin entered the chambers. Wan Li Lin questioned them of their decisions and the state of Soul Society. C46 replied that they'd acted in best interest of Soul Society and that any unusual actions had been done in extrimis, with no better alternatives within their knowledge. They then submitted to Wan Li Lin's judgement. Wan Li Lin summarily executed them. (Or rather, tried to; majority of them can still be alive, as they were not physically harmed, only rendered catatonic. However, no way to cure them has been presented.)

Notable decisions Central 46 did not do:

• Accepting treaty with Las Noches. (This was done under martial law by majority decision of Gotei Captains. Central 46 has not motioned to repeal it.)
• Accepting the Unseelie Accords. (The Accords were made by Anderson, Kuzunoha, Las Noches and Gotei operatives, signed under martial law. Central 46 has not motioned to repeal it.)
• Increasing number of Divisions, nominating several Captains. (Done under martial law by Gotei Captains or Zheng Li Lin as the Commander-General)
• Re-establishing Onmitsukido and (re)instating Setsurou Hishikawa as its head. (Done under martial law by Zheng Li Lin as the Commander-General.)
• Placing Izanami under arrest (Done by court martial consisting of Gotei officers under martial law.)

It should be noted that Soul Society's period of martial law started with Scarlet Garden (shortly after, Izanagi ascended to the Royal Guard) and ended when Zheng Li Lin ceded power back to Central 46 (again, ascending to Royal Guard immediately after). Technically, Soul Society has been back under martial law ever since Wan Li Lin executed Central 46. Koutarou may or may not be guilty of a coup, depending on Royal Guard's opinion of Wan Li Lin.

I can fill in the gaps regarding Central 46's daily work or opinions regarding any given point if desired. Off the bat, the biggest sticking points in my opinion are:

• Wan Li Lin's obvious, major disagreements with Central 46. Central 46 were fine with bringing Jehoel to Seireitei for questioning. They were fine with letting the treaty stand. Wan Li Lin considered both blasphemous. This does not fit Koutarou's account of them being "more or less in line".
• Neither of the major treaties Soul Society recently made were ratified by Central 46, they were ratified by Gotei under martial law. Kisaragi Saruhiko, a Royal Guard member, was present but did not object. Zheng Li Lin, now a Royal Guard member, was backing up both.
• Setsurou. Like, dude goes Missing-in-Action for 50 years. He just happens to return at the same time as the Arrancars come in making demands. He just happens to know of their city. He just happens to get along well with Jehoel Yurius. His superiors found his behaviour shady from almost the get-go. He hired a suspicuous Hollow entity (Nanashi) which later went rogue. Said Hollow entity tried to persuade Koutarou to eliminate Central 46 and it's on Shinigami Youtube by now. He neglected his duty as an ambassador, then when called out on it, proclaimed himself irreplaceable/untouchable. No matter which way you look at it, his competence and loyalties are heavily suspect. He was saved once when Wan Li Lin's actions buried his under the rubble, but again, not sure how well he'd fare if someone dug this all back up.
• The Unseelie Accords. They're at least as major as the treaty with Las Noches in many respects. But, I think more importantly, the way Koutarou et all act towards it has even greater chance of revealing their personal biases. The treaty with Las Noches was largely dictated by Jehoel. It was external. Unseelie Accords feels like it might have much more personal investment from part of several Gotei characters.

[Draken]

When you put it that way, maybe the royal guard should go back up there to make sure Zheng Li Lin isn't going to try something while they are away.

[Kuroimaken]

Setsurou's response to the suspicions cast on him.

"I got lost."

Setsurou's actual response:

"I was gathering intel. You idiots wouldn't know good intel work if it smacked you in the face with a baseball bat, so excuse me while I continue to be useful in a roundabout manner."

See, this would've worked so much more easily if people had gone along with the obfuscating stupidity angle I'd initially set up instead of bringing Setsurou to the spotlight.

As a general rule, the fact of the matter is that Soul Society's general power structure is terrible, more top-heavy than a pornstar's boob job, but no one with the know-how and no ulterior motive is in position to change it.

EDIT: Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't one of the reasons that stepping before the UN was discarded as an option the simple fact that the Shinigami would be pretty much unstoppable compared to most militaries? I mean, the Quincy aside, no one is even equipped to see them, much less harm them, and any weapon a country doesn't have a counter against tends to spark arms races...

[Frozen_Feet]

When you put it that way, maybe the royal guard should go back up there to make sure Zheng Li Lin isn't going to try something while they are away.

Not just Zheng Li Lin, Kisaragi Saruhiko as well (though the latter may be part of the Soul King by now). Now, Orihime is up there, but the rest of the Guard doesn't know what she and Li talked about while Li was visiting every Guard member individually.

But yeah, it's been the giant elephant in the room from the moment Wan Li Lin was introduced that at least two Royal Guard members had basically opposite opinions to Wan.

---

@Kuroimaken:

1) the obfuscation was working decently before Setsurou blew it up himself.
2) the shape of the hierarchy is so not the problem. It's the people in it.
3) neither was the plan discarded nor was that the primary reason Central 46 was queasy about that plan. They were worried about people choosing to not die if they knew enough of the afterlife, and that this would screw balance between worlds. What they said was that they needed more time to think about it. No decision for or against was reached before they were executed, and the same is true of the alternative.

[TherianTheorist]

It's come to my attention that changing laptops on short notice is an inherently bad way to keep things in order.

Also that photobucket is getting to be a handful, and too much was hosted there.

[strawberryman]

Just holding up for Naito and Chuck to respond to suddenly Momoka.

[KnightDisciple]

Just holding up for Naito and Chuck to respond to suddenly Momoka.

Sorry, spent most of my weekend AFK. Will be playing catch-up today.

[Ammutseba]

I'm at a point with Nuala that I'd need about three or four weeks of her working in isolation before she's ready to move forward. Problem is, she's recently been a part of other timelines, and I don't know what to do about this. How do we go about advancing her timeline without affecting others? Do I just wait until the next timeskip?

[Ammutseba]

Would you guys be okay with Dangai time shenanigans? I know the Dangai was slowed down in this iteration, but Nuala can explore the precipice world with impunity. She may know of or be able to find places where time is more dense than others, and use those to accelerate her perspective. Alternatively, she could use the Kototsu to warp herself somewhere into the past, but the end result would be the same.

[strawberryman]

I'm going to be up in the Norwegian mountains for a couple days but hope to kick certain things off in Soul Society when I get back.

[KnightDisciple]

I'm going to be up in the Norwegian mountains for a couple days but hope to kick certain things off in Soul Society when I get back.

Stay safe and don't wear yourself out yodeling and wrestling reindeer!

Wondering if we're going to end up needing to have the Guard confer about Koutarou's proposals....

[Kuroimaken]

Rin is listening in, isn't she? That's 2/3ds of who it could matter to.

[Dorizzit]

Silence is not the same thing as assent.

[Kuroimaken]

My point exactly. She is already in a position to speak her mind, to Masamune at least.

[KnightDisciple]

I'm at a point with Nuala that I'd need about three or four weeks of her working in isolation before she's ready to move forward. Problem is, she's recently been a part of other timelines, and I don't know what to do about this. How do we go about advancing her timeline without affecting others? Do I just wait until the next timeskip?

Would you guys be okay with Dangai time shenanigans? I know the Dangai was slowed down in this iteration, but Nuala can explore the precipice world with impunity. She may know of or be able to find places where time is more dense than others, and use those to accelerate her perspective. Alternatively, she could use the Kototsu to warp herself somewhere into the past, but the end result would be the same.

I know you've PM'ed me some about this but it's really kind of relevant to everyone....I think I personally would be more comfortable with just saying that shenanigans like what the Ki-Rin Empress did, combined with Soul Society's existing time displacement (unless that got changed again with no one being told), combined with her freaky-deaky location, mean that she arrives back in the Mortal World a day or two later instead of weeks.
Like, we may timeskip anyway, and I don't know what's so time-critical for her to find/do/whatever in either Soul Society or the Mortal World that you can't at least fudge things like that. I personally don't really want to get into lots of Dangai time shenanigans. It's come up just a couple of times thus far, and I don't think it was as severe as in canon. I honestly expect things like the plots for the Mortal Kids to take a few days or even a couple weeks, and as tense as the Royal Guard situation is right now, it'll either be done in a day, or take a few weeks. Either way, it's not like there's a huge window, I guess?
Again, don't really understand what the urgency of being done in an effective day or two instead of a couple of weeks. Does she have an appointment with another character?

[Ammutseba]

No, it's not a matter of whether she has to see other characters right now. It's that I don't want to go through "weeks" of using her, and then need to stop and specifically not use her until the rest of the game catches up with her timeline. Those weeks might take months or longer of out of game time to get through.

I have Kazuki, but he's a minor character. He might cease to be relevant at any time. If that happens, then I'll need to sit on the sidelines for this game and just watch everyone else RP until Nuala becomes usable again. I'd really prefer if I could keep writing her, but if that's selfish of me, then I'll do what needs to be done.

[KnightDisciple]

No, it's not a matter of whether she has to see other characters right now. It's that I don't want to go through "weeks" of using her, and then need to stop and specifically not use her until the rest of the game catches up with her timeline. Those weeks might take months or longer of out of game time to get through.

I have Kazuki, but he's a minor character. He might cease to be relevant at any time. If that happens, then I'll need to sit on the sidelines for this game and just watch everyone else RP until Nuala becomes usable again. I'd really prefer if I could keep writing her, but if that's selfish of me, then I'll do what needs to be done.

Well, I don't want Nuala sidelined like that. I personally think that having her experience a more generalized time distortion that lets her leave the Palace and return to a point that's a day after she left the easiest one. Partly because "random timehole shenanigans" feels easier to handwave than intentional Dangai shenanigan chicanery.

I also don't rightly recall what our game's canon time distortion factor is....

[Ammutseba]

It's 200x. I've talked with a few people about it by now. Anyway, that timehole thing is what I'll go with, then. Soul Society was moved since she went to Hueco Mundo, anyway, so that makes enough sense.

[strawberryman]

For the record, depending on how current events go I was going to suggest a timeskip anyway.

Also I'm back.

[Ammutseba]

Welcome back, Strawbs. :) It's good to have you again.

[Dorizzit]

For the record, depending on how current events go I was going to suggest a timeskip anyway.

Also I'm back.

I would benefit from one as well.

[KnightDisciple]

For the record, depending on how current events go I was going to suggest a timeskip anyway.

Also I'm back.

I would benefit from one as well.

I'm cool with an overall timeskip, that lets everybody have some space to let things settle a bit, and let Nuala get "caught up".

Also, I'd like to give the other Guard members chances to speak up or get us to a point of conferring together at this point.

[TherianTheorist]

What should I be doing, if anything, anymore?