Ultimate Railroad or Interesting Puzzle?

[MrStabby]

I am thinking in my D&D campaign that I will, about two thirds of the way through a fight - round when it becomes clear the PCs are winning, transport them to a new location with no memory of how they got there and their last memory being that fight.

There will be clues to piece together what happened, the time gap between events and what (who) has screwed with their memories to put together and potentially act on.

My first thought was that this would be fun and a bit different. Shortly followed by this being the ultimate in railroading. No choice about where to go, no selection of plot, no decision about how they got there... in fact the actions of the whole party between those events are dictated by the DM (me) deciding what their characters did (OK, so high level and the PCs can fill in the details though).

How would you/your group react if this was a situation into which you were put?

[Yora]

As long as it isn't a fight that the players feel is highly important to them and they have some freedom what to do after it doesn't seem that bad. It's not like you'd be negating their choices or taking away their accomplishments.

[HammeredWharf]

It sounds like something that's very hard to pull off without annoying someone. I did something similar in one of my games, but with flashbacks. The PCs woke up in the future, with a bunch of extra levels and amnesia. Whenever they came across something important from their past, they'd get a flashback to the events related to it, and the results of that flashback shaped the present. Dungeons and Memento. This resulted in them losing their memories being the only mandatory event, and even that could happen in several ways, including them doing it voluntarily, so no feelings were hurt.

[GrayDeath]

if your Players are into mysteries and none of the Characters had a good Contingency (literral and Spell) up that would be able to counter whatever it is that you are doing (and be sure that you KNOW what it is that removes their memoriescauses the rest of it and check its within the rules beforehand) it might leads to an amazing Adventure.

if your players dont like/hate riddles and/or are very clearly taking that fight as important dont do it.

[Strigon]

It's a difficult situation; first off, you'd have predetermined what each character did in their "blackout time" - and GM controlling player actions is a big no-no. You'd have to make sure they acted perfectly in sync with what the players would have them do.
Secondly, you'd have to have a good reason. Deus ex machina via somebody they've never heard of is not a good reason. Whether it's the god of the cultists the party is fighting, the witch they met a few sessions ago or a mad scientist they've been tailing for a while, don't just go "oh, it was this random dude."

Third, give minor hints. The Wizard was learning memory charms or something. Not so much that the party will see it coming, or even figure it out once they woke up, but once they've learned it all they should be able to look back and say that it fit in with the plot. This one's less important than the other considerations, but I'd personally do it.

Finally, feel your players about this. Are they hardcore into having free will, or do they trust you to be a good GM? This is probably the most important thing, so make sure your answer is completely accurate.

[MrStabby]

It's a difficult situation; first off, you'd have predetermined what each character did in their "blackout time" - and GM controlling player actions is a big no-no. You'd have to make sure they acted perfectly in sync with what the players would have them do.
Secondly, you'd have to have a good reason. Deus ex machina via somebody they've never heard of is not a good reason. Whether it's the god of the cultists the party is fighting, the witch they met a few sessions ago or a mad scientist they've been tailing for a while, don't just go "oh, it was this random dude."

Third, give minor hints. The Wizard was learning memory charms or something. Not so much that the party will see it coming, or even figure it out once they woke up, but once they've learned it all they should be able to look back and say that it fit in with the plot. This one's less important than the other considerations, but I'd personally do it.

Finally, feel your players about this. Are they hardcore into having free will, or do they trust you to be a good GM? This is probably the most important thing, so make sure your answer is completely accurate.

All good points.

The thing i was comparing it to in my mind was the start of an adventure: "you all find yourselves in a tavern" is maybe not elegant but a commonly accepted start.

I agree with you on the problem side. On the plus side, there is literally no time spent doing things outside of the character's control.

I could do it pretty much ignoring the intervening time. Lost memory is lost, they can discover what happened to them but not what they did in response. No one was ever forced to react in a particular way.

To be honest, whilst I think it could be fun, it is also pretty risky so maybe I should hang off a bit.

[Jay R]

What is the purpose of this idea? Why are they losing memory each time?

If there's a serious plot element that this serves, then we can't evaluate it without knowing what the payoff is supposed to be.

If you are taking away knowledge of the PCs' actions, the victory in each fight, and control of the character, without a clear and specific payoff, then I suspect that it's a bad idea.

[veti]

I think you can overcome the "controlling players' characters" objection.

Whenever it comes time to fill in a memory detail, do it as if playing the scene. Describe the situation - in terms of whatever you want this flashback to consist of - and let the players say what their characters would do.

The trouble with this is that it makes no difference what their characters do, because the outcome is predetermined, so you have to be prepared to railroad as much as necessary to make sure the predetermined outcome comes about. And when the players realise this, you'll inevitably have some smart - bottom trying to commit suicide, or something, at which point you have no real option but to drop a brick on their head and have them lose consciousness.

And this is fair enough, because while we can decide what we want and try to do, we can never decide what the outcome will be - that's what dice are for. All you're doing is, metaphorically speaking, pre-rolling the dice.

But at least you're not making anyone do something that they feel is out of character, which (to me at least) is the main objection to "DM dictating character actions".

[Jay R]

But at least you're not making anyone do something that they feel is out of character, which (to me at least) is the main objection to "DM dictating character actions".

The main objection from my point of view is that I'm watching, not playing.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It sounds like something that's very hard to pull off without annoying someone. I did something similar in one of my games, but with flashbacks. The PCs woke up in the future, with a bunch of extra levels and amnesia. Whenever they came across something important from their past, they'd get a flashback to the events related to it, and the results of that flashback shaped the present. Dungeons and Memento. This resulted in them losing their memories being the only mandatory event, and even that could happen in several ways, including them doing it voluntarily, so no feelings were hurt.

This is the way to do it, I think. Assuming you know your players, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out branching paths in the present, especially if you keep things simple-- basic choices as flashbacks, instead of extended sessions-- did we kill the bad guy last time we met or not? How did we dispose of the evil artifact? Etc.

You could even, potentially, have players fill out a little survey about "choices you would have made"-- disguise it as a character brainstorming excercise, if necessary. Have some questions be about things that actually happened, and others be purely theoretical. Then use the majority vote to determine how things actually shook out.

And when the players realise this, you'll inevitably have some smart - bottom trying to commit suicide, or something, at which point you have no real option but to drop a brick on their head and have them lose consciousness.

Eh, I've never actually seen that sort of memetically Rebellious Player at a table. Just about everyone I've ever played with has been happy to bite at plot hooks and follow the expected paths.

[mikeejimbo]

It sounds like something that's very hard to pull off without annoying someone. I did something similar in one of my games, but with flashbacks. The PCs woke up in the future, with a bunch of extra levels and amnesia. Whenever they came across something important from their past, they'd get a flashback to the events related to it, and the results of that flashback shaped the present. Dungeons and Memento. This resulted in them losing their memories being the only mandatory event, and even that could happen in several ways, including them doing it voluntarily, so no feelings were hurt.

This is really cool and I think if you're going to go for something like this, this is how you should do it. I'd find the situation fun.

[Cozzer]

I think if it happens in the first session, or at least in the "estabilishing" phase of a new storyarc, almost anything goes. It's the part of the story where you HAVE to give more question than answers, after all. Just make sure the answers exist and are consistent with the other estabilished facts AND the tone of the story (if the story has been a relatively light high fantasy, don't lock them in a torture dungeon, for example).