A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    What is all this talk about chakrams? I mean Xena was cool, but why use chakrams when you can use annulats.

    What is an annulat you ask?

    Well while chakram is an unupdated 3.0 exotic weapon which consists of a sharpened disc you can throw for 1d4 damage (x3 crit) and 30 ft range increment the annulat is a 3.5 exotic weapon which consists of a sharpened disc you can throw for 1d6 damage (19-20/x2 crit) and reduced cover bonuses to your target's AC with a 30 ft range increment which neraphs treat as a martial weapon.

    It is actually the racial weapon of neraphs (neraphim?) meaning that they start out as bit of toad ninjas.

    And Yuffie is better than Emo Nin.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    Hey LP, how about a 3 level dip in Shadowcaster? By itself, it gives you darkvision 30ft, plus you get a series of 3/day spell-like abilities, some of which would be really helpful to a ninja character.

    Bend Perspective lets you switch between two different points of view, Sight Eclipsed gives you HiPS, Steel Shadows gives you a +3 bonus to both Armor and Shield bonuses to AC, Widened Eyes gives you low-light vision.
    So like a Ninja/Shadowcaster/Master Thrower/Ninja Spy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    What is all this talk about chakrams? I mean Xena was cool, but why use chakrams when you can use annulats.

    What is an annulat you ask?

    Well while chakram is an unupdated 3.0 exotic weapon which consists of a sharpened disc you can throw for 1d4 damage (x3 crit) and 30 ft range increment the annulat is a 3.5 exotic weapon which consists of a sharpened disc you can throw for 1d6 damage (19-20/x2 crit) and reduced cover bonuses to your target's AC with a 30 ft range increment which neraphs treat as a martial weapon.

    It is actually the racial weapon of neraphs (neraphim?) meaning that they start out as bit of toad ninjas.

    And Yuffie is better than Emo Nin.
    Zaydos! It's been a really long time since I've seen you around.
    Last edited by LoyalPaladin; 2016-09-07 at 02:44 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    So like a Ninja/Shadowcaster/Master Thrower/Ninja Spy?
    Awwww yeaaaah!

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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    The bolded/italicized part would probably be fine with my DM, I'm sure. I'll make that case, because I betcha he'll say no to everything else.
    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    Yeah, you need to be nonchaotic, nongood. What if someone failed the capstone of Shadow Sun Ninja and became a Ninja Spy after? Vampire Super-Ninja!
    If he starts as true neutral, then puts on a helm of opposite alignment this could work.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    That's super helpful. Thanks, Dysprosium. I've got that book at home, so I'll pull it out when I get back. It's looking like the Bullywug is not for me. The Siv is decent though. Do they get the water walking ability?
    I don't see why they wouldn't. That would probably help justify that +1 LA.

    So I checked my Monsters of Faerun book and discovered that the racial adjustments I had come up with earlier would be applicable with what was listed in the book.

    For the 3.5 update, they decided to give the humanoid monsters the standard array instead of the standard 10s and 11s. So from either source, the racial stats I came up with would be ok.

    And for bullywugs, I agree that they would make poor ninja. Besides whenever I think of bullywugs I think of these guys:

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    It is actually the racial weapon of neraphs (neraphim?) meaning that they start out as bit of toad ninjas.

    And Yuffie is better than Emo Nin.
    But Jirayah ero-sennin is superior to both.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    I don't see why they wouldn't. That would probably help justify that +1 LA.

    So I checked my Monsters of Faerun book and discovered that the racial adjustments I had come up with earlier would be applicable with what was listed in the book.

    For the 3.5 update, they decided to give the humanoid monsters the standard array instead of the standard 10s and 11s. So from either source, the racial stats I came up with would be ok.

    And for bullywugs, I agree that they would make poor ninja. Besides whenever I think of bullywugs I think of these guys:
    I would like to tell you, that one of my fellow players is big into the whole "Barbarian go smash" archetype and has agreed to play a bullywug barb if I play my ninja of equal or lesser size.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Zaydos! It's been a really long time since I've seen you around.
    I was gone for a while, been back for a bit. Would have contacted you the other day for mysterious reasons (permission based purposes), but idea fell through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erit View Post
    But Jirayah ero-sennin is superior to both.
    Kakashi was my favorite Naruto character. Though really if I'm going for FF ninjas, well ok Yuffie was one of two FFVII characters I actually liked, but



    Edge defines the FF ninja to me since he was my first.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    I was gone for a while, been back for a bit.
    I see! I've been less active in the 3.5 forum and more secluded to play-by-post games lately. But I'm still around. Which reminds me, I need to update my play by posts. Been a busy summer for me and I'm hoping it dies down a bit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Would have contacted you the other day for mysterious reasons (permission based purposes), but idea fell through.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Kakashi was my favorite Naruto character. Though really if I'm going for FF ninjas, well ok Yuffie was one of two FFVII characters I actually liked, but



    Edge defines the FF ninja to me since he was my first.
    I don't recognize him, actually. Which FF is he from?
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Psst! LP! I think we're waiting on you over in World of Salvus Alpha!

    IMO, Neraphim are just frog wannabes. For maximum frogginess, Grippli are where it's at.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I'll probably convert this thread into a build thread once I've got a race selected. I'm aiming for a frog ninja that uses a big shuriken as a melee weapon and occasionally throws it to pick off a fleeing combatant. I'd also like to be able to overcome most physical hurdles, as I would be a stealthy rogue/scout.
    You want ninjas? I got ninjas.

    Rogue 3/Wizard 2/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5 pulls in 8d6 sneak attack, averages just shy of 6+Int skill points per level, and rocks 17th-level Wizard spellcasting by the end of the build. The wizard list has truckloads of wonderful abilities for infiltration and stealth. I can think of upwards of a dozen spells that are totally awesome for an infiltrator/assassin from among just the PHB 0- and 1st-level spells. You could also pick up some ranged touch spells for easy sneak attack, or even the Invisible Needle reserve feat (at-will ranged-touch force damage, woohoo!). What's spellcasting? Oh, just some magic words and gestures. Spellbooks? Scrolls detailing your various ninja techniques, recorded for the apprentice you will someday take on. And there's nothing stopping you from shaping those magic missiles like shuriken

    If you don't want something quite so high-powered, you could add in up to five or six more noncasting levels while still getting a Bard-ish spellcasting progression. Unseen Seer provides great skill access, full casting, and near-full sneak attack, so if you go the 6th-casting route it's probably best to take out the second Wizard level and all five Arcane Trickster levels, with the replacement class levels distributed throughout the build at your discretion. But don't be afraid of going full-caster after the Rogue levels! As long as you take some care not to step on your allies' toes, tricks like Etherealness, Mind Blank, and Phase Door would totally be up a ninja master's inscrutable sleeves.

    If you'd rather stay away from good old caster dominance, I strongly recommend the Psychic Rogue. Its class features look just a touch sparse, but with 5th-level manifesting it gets a nice pile of tricks, and has an oblique leg up on the wizard approach due to its lack of verbal and somatic components.

    You may want to ask your DM if you could apply the Kung Fu Genius feat (Dragon Compendium) to Ninja abilities; Intelligence makes much more sense for the secretive master infiltrator than Wisdom, and being able to nab Int to AC could make Rogue 2/Ninja 1 or even Ninja 3 a solid replacement for Rogue 3 at the start of the Wizard build.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    (Does a climb speed let you climb on the ceiling?)
    Nope. It doesn't even give you 100% on walls with a DC higher than zero, although the +8 racial bonus helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    On these build related notes. Is there any way to increase the throwing distance of a shuriken?
    Darts (up two die sizes, longer range increment). Distance weapon special ability (+50% total range increment, DMG). Far Shot feat (double range increment with thrown weapons, PHB)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Is there anyway for me to throw really big shuriken? What about a way for me to use really big shuriken as a melee weapon? Does it break? Answer my questions, mortals!
    1. Darts. Up two die sizes, longer range increment.
    2. Daggers. Up two die sizes, better critical range.
    2a. If you want to use specifically shuriken in melee, you very much cannot. See PHB, p. 121: "A shuriken canít be used as a melee weapon."
    3. Irrelevant, see 2a.
    4. I see you're trying to exclude undead like myself and and [Awesome, Evil, Lawful] outsiders like Red Fel. I see how it is

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I personally like appealing to the DM; you should ask if your adamantine and/or heavily enchanted shuriken can just not be auto-destroyed like normal ammo, and your DM might say yes (which is awesome).
    Beware these words, for down the path of indestructible ammunition-enchanted shuriken lies much cheese.
    Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2016-09-07 at 03:49 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I see! I've been less active in the 3.5 forum and more secluded to play-by-post games lately. But I'm still around. Which reminds me, I need to update my play by posts. Been a busy summer for me and I'm hoping it dies down a bit...


    For now and all future reference: I, LoyalPaladin, give Zaydos permission to craft any content in my likeness. So long as he sends me the finished product!*

    *I am not liable for any IZ42's that are harmed in the crafting of said content.


    I don't recognize him, actually. Which FF is he from?
    Guesing from entirely from my arse he is from same game where green leotard chick or one or two games pior to them

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    For now and all future reference: I, LoyalPaladin, give Zaydos permission to craft any content in my likeness. So long as he sends me the finished product!*

    *I am not liable for any IZ42's that are harmed in the crafting of said content.
    Was not in your likeness, but a paragon class based on something you made, and this is tangential to the thread.

    I don't recognize him, actually. Which FF is he from?
    FF IV, so that is not the original game art, just where he's holding oversized shuriken.

    Game art is closer to this



    Haven't played FFIII so I don't know how much personality the characters in it had. FFII I don't think had a ninja (I don't remember one, I just remember it being bad and the plot being straight from Star Wars). So to my knowledge Edge is the first FF Ninja with a personality, at the very least the first that's fixed into being a ninja.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Beware these words, for down the path of indestructible ammunition-enchanted shuriken lies much cheese.
    I am acutely aware. That is, in fact, why I suggested asking that question first, rather than the "can shuriken not count as ammunition" question; if your DM approves shuriken that are like ammo except they survive contact, you get to break out some serious "cheese", as far as non-mage cheese goes. Personally, I think non-mages deserve some love.


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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Rogue 3/Wizard 2/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5 pulls in 8d6 sneak attack, averages just shy of 6+Int skill points per level, and rocks 17th-level Wizard spellcasting by the end of the build.
    The issue with most such builds is that having 17th level wizard casting makes all your other class features sort of superfluous. Naruto ninja aside, ninjas tend not to be wizards.

    Assassin, on the other hand, keeps the casting nice and focused on ninjaing. As does ranger, interestingly enough. Mystic Ranger without Sword of the Arcane Order makes for a very capable character.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    How about the Murloc from Warcraft the RPG?
    Aren't they frog-like?


    Quote Originally Posted by Draconium View Post
    Then throw a couple of levels of Shadow Sun Ninja on top, and you get ALL THE NINJA!!
    For "ALL THE NINJA!!", there is also Ninja of the Crescent Moon (Sword and Fist)

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    be a ninja and dress as a nun... you could be a nunja.



    edit: Just don't wield nunchucks on top of high buildings...
    Last edited by Calthropstu; 2016-09-07 at 04:21 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Psst! LP! I think we're waiting on you over in World of Salvus Alpha!
    I know, I know. I've just been really busy. D: I'll get a good post up tonight! Maybe even sooner!

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    IMO, Neraphim are just frog wannabes. For maximum frogginess, Grippli are where it's at.
    With the new information from my friend playing the Bullywug, I think I'll definitely be taking the Grippli route!

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    You want ninjas? I got ninjas.

    Rogue 3/Wizard 2/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5 pulls in 8d6 sneak attack, averages just shy of 6+Int skill points per level, and rocks 17th-level Wizard spellcasting by the end of the build. The wizard list has truckloads of wonderful abilities for infiltration and stealth. I can think of upwards of a dozen spells that are totally awesome for an infiltrator/assassin from among just the PHB 0- and 1st-level spells. You could also pick up some ranged touch spells for easy sneak attack, or even the Invisible Needle reserve feat (at-will ranged-touch force damage, woohoo!). What's spellcasting? Oh, just some magic words and gestures. Spellbooks? Scrolls detailing your various ninja techniques, recorded for the apprentice you will someday take on. And there's nothing stopping you from shaping those magic missiles like shuriken
    I really really like this build. But it's like waaaaay beyond the op/power level that I'm looking at. I'm looking to keep up with, no dwarf, my soon to be amphibous companion who is probably a Barb 10 / Frenzied Berseker 10 at the most. I'd like to keep it to minimal spellcasting. I'm thinking maybe after my Grippli village was ransacked by orcs, I wandered all over and observed a ninja in training. Fascinated, I went and became his disciple. Something like that.

    I do think I'll use the magic missile shuriken idea, though!

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    totally awesome
    Please tell me you didn't do this by hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    You may want to ask your DM if you could apply the Kung Fu Genius feat (Dragon Compendium) to Ninja abilities; Intelligence makes much more sense for the secretive master infiltrator than Wisdom, and being able to nab Int to AC could make Rogue 2/Ninja 1 or even Ninja 3 a solid replacement for Rogue 3 at the start of the Wizard build.
    I will ask about that. But I am almost certain he'll say no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Nope. It doesn't even give you 100% on walls with a DC higher than zero, although the +8 racial bonus helps.
    Lame. Maybe after I lock my build down better I'll start asking about ninja items. Ninja tabi of water walking, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    1. Darts. Up two die sizes, longer range increment.
    2. Daggers. Up two die sizes, better critical range.
    2a. If you want to use specifically shuriken in melee, you very much cannot. See PHB, p. 121: "A shuriken canít be used as a melee weapon."
    3. Irrelevant, see 2a.
    4. I see you're trying to exclude undead like myself and and [Awesome, Evil, Lawful] outsiders like Red Fel. I see how it is
    Maybe I'll go with unarmed strike or a ninja-to then... why aren't ninja proficient with the ninja-to!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    FF IV, so that is not the original game art, just where he's holding oversized shuriken.

    Game art is closer to this



    Haven't played FFIII so I don't know how much personality the characters in it had. FFII I don't think had a ninja (I don't remember one, I just remember it being bad and the plot being straight from Star Wars). So to my knowledge Edge is the first FF Ninja with a personality, at the very least the first that's fixed into being a ninja.
    Huh. I'll have to go back and play that, cuz I'm certain I've played it. I own it for sure... right?
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post

    Maybe I'll go with unarmed strike or a ninja-to then... why aren't ninja proficient with the ninja-to
    Because magic.

    I have seriously wondered about this myself, it seems a very very silly thing.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Maybe I'll go with unarmed strike or a ninja-to then... why aren't ninja proficient with the ninja-to!?
    Because despite being introduced in the same Dragon Magazine issue that updated OA, the ninja class completely ignores its existence. Also because ninja-to, as written, shouldn't have been a weapon especially not an exotic one. Specifically a ninja-to is a shortsword with a special scabbard. It is literally identical to a shortsword except that its scabbard can be used as a breathing tube, blowgun (simple weapon in OA), or club. So... see if your DM will let you buy a scabbard that doubles as a bluwgun and club. I am assuming ninjas are proficient in shortswords.

    Edit: Or just buy a ninja-to, throw away the sword, and sheath your shortsword in its sheath and then use the sheath as a club or blowgun as needed.
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2016-09-07 at 04:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Lame. Maybe after I lock my build down better I'll start asking about ninja items. Ninja tabi of water walking, for example.
    Ninja Spy can walk on water for short periods as long as he spends a standard action to concentrate.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Maybe I'll go with unarmed strike or a ninja-to then... why aren't ninja proficient with the ninja-to!?
    Ninja Spy gets a limited Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat every few levels. Ninja-to is one of the weapons you can use it for.

    List is: blowgun (I don't know why, is simple even in OA), chain, chijiriki, fukimi-bari, hand crossbow, kusari-gama, nekode, ninja-to, shikomi-zue, shuriken, spiked chain, or war fan
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Because despite being introduced in the same Dragon Magazine issue that updated OA, the ninja class completely ignores its existence. Also because ninja-to, as written, shouldn't have been a weapon especially not an exotic one. Specifically a ninja-to is a shortsword with a special scabbard. It is literally identical to a shortsword except that its scabbard can be used as a breathing tube, blowgun (simple weapon in OA), or club. So... see if your DM will let you buy a scabbard that doubles as a bluwgun and club. I am assuming ninjas are proficient in shortswords.

    Edit: Or just buy a ninja-to, throw away the sword, and sheath your shortsword in its sheath and then use the sheath as a club or blowgun as needed.
    Or say something to the effect of "Hey, <insert DM's name here>. Can I just pretend like I'm proficient with my weapon?" He'll probably say yes to that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    Ninja Spy can walk on water for short periods as long as he spends a standard action to concentrate.

    Ninja Spy gets a limited Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat every few levels. Ninja-to is one of the weapons you can use it for.

    List is: blowgun (I don't know why, is simple even in OA), chain, chijiriki, fukimi-bari, hand crossbow, kusari-gama, nekode, ninja-to, shikomi-zue, shuriken, spiked chain, or war fan
    Oh perfect then. I'd actually like to pick up some of those weapons.
    Last edited by LoyalPaladin; 2016-09-07 at 04:41 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I know, I know. I've just been really busy. D: I'll get a good post up tonight! Maybe even sooner!
    Excellent. Cassidy hungers for knowledge!

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I really really like this build. But it's like waaaaay beyond the op/power level that I'm looking at. I'm looking to keep up with, no dwarf, my soon to be amphibous companion who is probably a Barb 10 / Frenzied Berseker 10 at the most. I'd like to keep it to minimal spellcasting. I'm thinking maybe after my Grippli village was ransacked by orcs, I wandered all over and observed a ninja in training. Fascinated, I went and became his disciple. Something like that.
    Aww, man. There's so many cool tricks! Mirror Image shadow clones, Stinking Cloud smoke bombs... the list just goes on!

    It's also very much worth noting that there's a reason the "thief" role is sometimes referred to as the "corpse", as that's what you'll often end up as, especially at high levels when more creatures are running around with a bevy of special senses, movement modes, immunities, and SLAs. This can be helped by bringing magic of your own to the table, which provides those same abilities plus counters to some of the above (flight beats tremorsense, for example). Keeping your spell selection fairly limited - which is as easy as not researching more spells than the 2 gained for free at each level - can go a long way towards curtailing your power. Here's a sample core-only spellbook at wizard level 17, assuming a starting Intelligence of 18.

    1st: Hold Portal, Obscuring Mist, Detect Secret Doors, Sleep, Magic Missile, Disguise Self, Magic Aura, Silent Image, Expeditious Retreat
    2nd: Locate Object, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Knock
    3rd: Dispel Magic, Nondetection, Stinking Cloud, Arcane Sight
    4th: Dimensional Anchor, Dimension Door, Locate Creature, Greater Invisibility
    5th: Dismissal, Prying Eyes, Symbol of Sleep, Wall of Force
    6th: Greater Dispel Magic, True Seeing, Mislead, Shadow Walk
    7th: Banishment, Control Weather, Ethereal Jaunt, Statue
    8th: Mind Blank, Incendiary Cloud, Discern Location, Irresistible Dance
    9th: Foresight, Etherealness

    That's not a huge list of tricks, really. Splicing in, say, three levels of Factotum (for +Int to all physical skills) would knock off the 8ths and 9ths, and cut the available 7ths down to two.

    Ah well. Let's see, zero-spellcasting ninja. I'll think on it and get back to you later this evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I do think I'll use the magic missile shuriken idea, though!
    Or you could take Spell Thematics (Ninjas), and have your Magic Missiles shaped like tiny ninjas.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Please tell me you didn't do this by hand.
    Oh, but I did. A ninja is diligent.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I will ask about that. But I am almost certain he'll say no.
    Hmmmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Lame. Maybe after I lock my build down better I'll start asking about ninja items. Ninja tabi of water walking, for example.
    You're silly. Ninja Tabi would increase armor.

    As for water walking, there's a Monk ACF for that. I'll dig it up when I'm back from RL stuff in about an hour.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    It's Stormwrack, replaces Slow Fall, comes online at 4th, distance limit is the same as you could have done slow fall for up to 90-ft, you can end your turn on it but only once and if you stop your movement on it (as opposed to ending before moving next round) you fall in. It's not good. I may have been working on naval substitution levels for a contest.

    Or there might be another better one somewhere, but the Stormwrack one is not good.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    If you are looking for ninja-like classes, how about Umbral Disciple from Magic of Incarnum? The requirements for the class isn't that hard to meet and the benefits are nice for a 3-level dip. Specifically the Embrace the Shadow ability that you get at 3rd level is nice. You can get 20% miss chance and Hide in Plain Sight, which is even better than the Shadowdancer version since you supply your own shadow.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Excellent. Cassidy hungers for knowledge!
    Updated!

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Aww, man. There's so many cool tricks! Mirror Image shadow clones, Stinking Cloud smoke bombs... the list just goes on!
    Haha. I played a Sorcadin a while ago and man did I use those spells in the flashiest of ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    It's also very much worth noting that there's a reason the "thief" role is sometimes referred to as the "corpse", as that's what you'll often end up as, especially at high levels when more creatures are running around with a bevy of special senses, movement modes, immunities, and SLAs. This can be helped by bringing magic of your own to the table, which provides those same abilities plus counters to some of the above (flight beats tremorsense, for example). Keeping your spell selection fairly limited - which is as easy as not researching more spells than the 2 gained for free at each level - can go a long way towards curtailing your power.
    Yeah, I've never played the thief role before! So I'm looking forward to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Here's a sample core-only spellbook at wizard level 17, assuming a starting Intelligence of 18.

    1st: Hold Portal, Obscuring Mist, Detect Secret Doors, Sleep, Magic Missile, Disguise Self, Magic Aura, Silent Image, Expeditious Retreat
    2nd: Locate Object, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Knock
    3rd: Dispel Magic, Nondetection, Stinking Cloud, Arcane Sight
    4th: Dimensional Anchor, Dimension Door, Locate Creature, Greater Invisibility
    5th: Dismissal, Prying Eyes, Symbol of Sleep, Wall of Force
    6th: Greater Dispel Magic, True Seeing, Mislead, Shadow Walk
    7th: Banishment, Control Weather, Ethereal Jaunt, Statue
    8th: Mind Blank, Incendiary Cloud, Discern Location, Irresistible Dance
    9th: Foresight, Etherealness
    That's not a huge list of tricks, really. Splicing in, say, three levels of Factotum (for +Int to all physical skills) would knock off the 8ths and 9ths, and cut the available 7ths down to two.[/QUOTE]
    I'm going to keep this list. I'll use it eventually!

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Ah well. Let's see, zero-spellcasting ninja. I'll think on it and get back to you later this evening.
    Cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Or you could take Spell Thematics (Ninjas), and have your Magic Missiles shaped like tiny ninjas.
    I would be open to a small dip into a spellcasting class to get 1st level spell to trigger sneak attack? Maybe grab some orb spells or something to thematic into shuriken?

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Oh, but I did. A ninja is diligent.
    That is terrifying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    You're silly. Ninja Tabi would increase armor.
    I was waiting for it. Haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    As for water walking, there's a Monk ACF for that. I'll dig it up when I'm back from RL stuff in about an hour.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    It's Stormwrack, replaces Slow Fall, comes online at 4th, distance limit is the same as you could have done slow fall for up to 90-ft, you can end your turn on it but only once and if you stop your movement on it (as opposed to ending before moving next round) you fall in. It's not good. I may have been working on naval substitution levels for a contest.

    Or there might be another better one somewhere, but the Stormwrack one is not good.
    I think I might ditch Master Thrower and Ninja Spy gives water walking, so I think I'm okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    If you are looking for ninja-like classes, how about Umbral Disciple from Magic of Incarnum? The requirements for the class isn't that hard to meet and the benefits are nice for a 3-level dip. Specifically the Embrace the Shadow ability that you get at 3rd level is nice. You can get 20% miss chance and Hide in Plain Sight, which is even better than the Shadowdancer version since you supply your own shadow.
    I'll look into that. MoI gets shady looks in my group, but I like it.
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    Yeah, some people are scared of MoI. At least this PrC is very incarnum light, no meldshaping, just a bit of essentia involved. It could be a way to introduce people to the system without dropping in headfirst.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    For a class that gives ninja-like abilities I personally like Warlock for spiderwalk, breath of night, flee the scene, etc. All things considered it ends up pretty thematic and decently powerful.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: My ninja build is about to croak...

    If you want to try out Anchovies' suggestion, but without the burden of Wizard broad casting, try using Wu Jen instead. Definitely thematic, especially the spell list itself. Decapitating/Entangling Scarves? Needle Rain? Fire/Poison Breath? Snake Darts? Elemental Knives/Blades/Shurikens? Yes,the Wu Jen's spell list is a Complete Adventurer Ninja's wet dream.

    Remember, too, that Fire Shuriken is instantaneous, which means you can store them up by casting them on your down time--maybe even modified with Searing Spell and Fell Drain!
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