A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    So, since people have expressed interest, I will be running MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rules
    Three Card Blind is a forum-based Magic game in which in every round, each player PMs three cards to the host (TiaC). These cards make up your entire deck; you begin each game with those cards in your hand, and you play against each other player twice (one going first, and once going second). These matches are not really "played" as such; I simply looks at each player's cards, and figures out who would win. You get 3 points for each win, 1 points for each draw, and 0 points for each loss. Since you play each opponent twice, that means that you can get up to 6 points per opponent. Whoever has the most points after playing everybody wins the round.

    There are many variations of Three Card Blind. In Vanishing Three Card Blind, there is a list of banned cards that nobody can put into their decks. In the first round, there are no banned cards. After that, the cards from the winning deck (or decks, in case of a tie) are added to the ban list. The only cards which are exempt from being banned are basic lands, the Fallen Empires and Mercadian Masques storage lands, and the Time Spiral dual storage lands.

    Also, there are four cycles of lands with a special rule. Once every card in one of these cycles has been banned, the entire cycle will be unbanned. These cycles are:
    The Invasion saclands
    The Fallen Empires saclands
    The Ravnica block Karoos
    The Masques block Depletion lands

    Some additional rules:

    All sets and promos are legal, including Unglued and Unhinged. However, any cards that have a random effect (such as Mana Clash), or require some form of physical or mental dexterity (such as Charm School or Question Elemental) are assumed to go against the person using them in their deck (so Mana Clash would give you 20 tails in a row, Charm School falls off your head immediately, and you get an uncontrollable urge to recite epic poetry once your Question Elemental comes into play, at which point your opponent reveals themself to be The Riddler.) Edit: to be clear, you can use the Un-cards that require you to do some physical action, provided it is not intended to be a feat of dexterity. So Knight of the Hokey Pokey works, Goblin Mime does not.

    You don't lose the game from being unable to draw a card, but the draw still tries to happen, so you are allowed to use cards such as the Onslaught Words enchantments, which allow you to skip drawing a card for some effect.

    Perfect play is assumed, and during the games, each player knows what the other player has. So your opponent won't play their Akroma if you have a Control Magic, and you always know what to name for your Cabal Therapy

    In a situation where neither player can or wants to act, the game is a draw. So if your opponent's deck is Foil, Island, and Nether Spirit, and you would be unable to survive against a 2/2 that comes back every turn, you simply don't play any spells at all, and your opponent never has a way to play Foil and thus discard the Spirit. Since neither player is doing anything, it's a draw.

    In the event of a card that can draw on cards from outside the game such as the wishes or Research, you may have a sideboard of three cards to draw from.

    You don't get any mana to start out with, so your three cards must include something that can get you the mana you need (the aforementioned storage lands are a big help here).

    If you think I made a mistake on the results, make a post saying so. He'll look it over and change the results if you're right, or explain why if you're wrong.

    When a new set is out, the cards in it will be legal once a round starts with the set available in Gatherer.

    I will run rounds at least weekly provided I have at least four decks.

    You may send in decks for multiple rounds ahead of time. If your deck contains banned cards or relies on some rules misconception, I'll use the next deck in line.

    If you aren't sure whether your deck works or not, PM me and I'll let you know. You can also PM me if you've changed your mind about your deck and want to submit a different one for the round.

    Finally, I am not a judge, so if you think I made a mistake in scoring, please tell me.
    Other information:
    Old thread
    Example of Play

    For current ban list, see latest result posts.
    Last edited by TiaC; 2016-11-19 at 07:12 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    To clarify, are planes, conspiracies, schemes, etc. legal as choices for my 3 cards, or not?
    Thanks to araveugnitsuga for my Pika-tar!
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    To clarify, are planes, conspiracies, schemes, etc. legal as choices for my 3 cards, or not?
    No, they are not. Thanks for asking, I realize that wasn't clear.

    I think I will take a page from the second thread I linked in the opening post and run special rounds every so often. Those rounds will have variant rules applied.

    I'll run the first round soon.

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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    I have a potentially hilarious but probably not going to win deck idea. Should I PM it to you right now, or what?

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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I have a potentially hilarious but probably not going to win deck idea. Should I PM it to you right now, or what?
    Don't be shy, you can always send in a deck, even if it can't win.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Round 12 Rises from the grave, hungry for blood!

    Fable Wright: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
    Gauntlet: Cabal Pit, Thoughtseize, Death's Shadow
    Bucky: Mishra's Factory, Mox Pearl, Balance
    Ninjaman: Thespian's Stage, Dark Depths, Ancient Tomb
    tgva8889: Plains, Cenn's Tactician, Swords to Plowshares
    Bobb: Mountain, Leyline of the meek, Devastating Summons
    ben-zayb: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
    Jormengand: Kher Keep, Izzet Boilerworks, Shared Animosity
    Dr.Gunsforhands: Plains, Mana Tithe, Alaborn Zealot


    Fable Wright: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
    Vs. Gauntlet: LL (0)
    Vs. Bucky: DD (2)
    Vs. Ninjaman: WW (8)
    Vs. tgva8889: DD (10)
    Vs. Bobb: WW (16)
    Vs. ben-zayb: WL (19)
    Vs. Jormengand: WW (25)
    Vs. Dr.Gunsforhands: DL (26)

    Gauntlet: Cabal Pit, Thoughtseize, Death's Shadow
    Vs. Fable Wright: WW (6)
    Vs. Bucky: WD (10)
    Vs. Ninjaman: LL (10)
    Vs. tgva8889: DL (11)
    Vs. Bobb: WD (15)
    Vs. ben-zayb: WW (21)
    Vs. Jormengand: DD (23)
    Vs. Dr.Gunsforhands: DD (25)

    Bucky: Mishra's Factory, Mox Pearl, Balance
    Vs. Fable Wright: DD (2)
    Vs. Gauntlet: DL (3)
    Vs. Ninjaman: WW (9)
    Vs. tgva8889: WW (15)
    Vs. Bobb: DD (17)
    Vs. ben-zayb: DD (19)
    Vs. Jormengand: WW (25)
    Vs. Dr.Gunsforhands: WW (31)

    Ninjaman: Thespian's Stage, Dark Depths, Ancient Tomb
    Vs. Fable Wright: LL (0)
    Vs. Gauntlet: WW (6)
    Vs. Bucky: LL (6)
    Vs. tgva8889: LL (6)
    Vs. Bobb: WW (12)
    Vs. ben-zayb: LL (12)
    Vs. Jormengand: WW (18)
    Vs. Dr.Gunsforhands: WW (24)

    tgva8889: Plains, Cenn's Tactician, Swords to Plowshares
    Vs. Fable Wright: DD (2)
    Vs. Gauntlet: WD (6)
    Vs. Bucky: LL (6)
    Vs. Ninjaman: WW (12)
    Vs. Bobb: WW (18)
    Vs. ben-zayb: DD (20)
    Vs. Jormengand: LL (20)
    Vs. Dr.Gunsforhands: WD (24)

    Bobb: Mountain, Leyline of the meek, Devastating Summons
    Vs. Fable Wright: LL (0)
    Vs. Gauntlet: DD (2)
    Vs. Bucky: DL (3)
    Vs. Ninjaman: LL (3)
    Vs. tgva8889: LL (3)
    Vs. ben-zayb: LL (3)
    Vs. Jormengand: WW (9)
    Vs. Dr.Gunsforhands: WD (13)

    ben-zayb: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
    Vs. Fable Wright: WL (3)
    Vs. Gauntlet: LL (3)
    Vs. Bucky: DD (5)
    Vs. Ninjaman: WW (11)
    Vs. tgva8889: DD (13)
    Vs. Bobb: WW (19)
    Vs. Jormengand: WW (25)
    Vs. Dr.Gunsforhands: DL (26)

    Jormengand: Kher Keep, Izzet Boilerworks, Shared Animosity
    Vs. Fable Wright: LL (0)
    Vs. Gauntlet: DD (2)
    Vs. Bucky: LL (2)
    Vs. Ninjaman: LL (2)
    Vs. tgva8889: WW (8)
    Vs. Bobb: LL (8)
    Vs. ben-zayb: LL (8)
    Vs. Dr.Gunsforhands: DD (10)

    Dr.Gunsforhands: Plains, Mana Tithe, Alaborn Zealot
    Vs. Fable Wright: WD (4)
    Vs. Gauntlet: DD (6)
    Vs. Bucky: LL (6)
    Vs. Ninjaman: LL (6)
    Vs. tgva8889: DL (7)
    Vs. Bobb: DL (8)
    Vs. ben-zayb: WD (12)
    Vs. Jormengand: DD (14)

    Gold: Bucky
    Silver: Fable Wright, ben-zayb
    Bronze: Gauntlet
    Tactical Depths: Ninjaman, tgva8889
    Piously violent: Dr.Gunsforhands
    Devastated: Bobb
    Boiling over: Jormengand

    Well, we're back with a big round. Bucky manages a narrow win in a diverse field with the powerful disruption of Balance. Fable Wright and ben-zayb do quite well with the power of a second-turn Eldrazi. However, competition for second is strong, and they edge out with Ninjaman who is a little slower but better able to deal with disruption and tgva8889, whose ability to exile proves valuable against a field of indestructible creatures. Gauntlet makes a deck that's amazingly frustrating to score. Bobb goes for speed over power and steals a few wins. Dr.Gunsforhands plays very defensively to some success. Finally, Jormengand makes a cool combo, but as predicted, not a very effective one.


    Spoiler: Current Ban List
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    Land: Bazaar of Baghdad, City of Traitors, Dryad Arbor, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, Mishra's Workshop, Strip Mine, Tundra

    Colorless: Arcbound Slith, Black Lotus, Blacker Lotus, Chronomaton, Emrakul the Aeons torn, Memnite, Mox Pearl, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Steel Overseer, The Rack, Topor Orb

    Black: Entomber Exarch

    Blue: Daze, Force of Will, Laboratory Maniac, Leyline of Anticipation, Zephyr Spirit

    Green: Form of the Squirrel, Helix Pinnacle

    Red: Chancellor of the Forge

    White: Balance, Chancellor of the Annex, Doomed Traveler


    Round 13 opens now. Feeling lucky?
    Last edited by TiaC; 2016-09-18 at 12:40 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Hm. I'm kinda curious why it wasn't a draw for the Channel-Ulamog-Woodlot deck and the Balance deck. Sure, if the Balance deck gets the play, it goes turn 1 balance and forces us to discard our handsóbut then Ulamog reshuffles them into our library, and the 10-turn clock of Mishra's workshop can't win in the three turns it takes for us to redraw our combo. Whoever casts their winning spell first, Channel or Balance, is inevitably the loser. This seems like the archetypical draw scenario to me.

    Also stumped on the Balance vs Devastating Summons and Channel-Ulamog vs Alaborn Zealot matchups. I feel like I'm missing something here.
    Last edited by Fable Wright; 2016-09-16 at 11:52 PM.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    Hm. I'm kinda curious why it wasn't a draw for the Channel-Ulamog-Woodlot deck and the Balance deck. Sure, if the Balance deck gets the play, it goes turn 1 balance and forces us to discard our handsóbut then Ulamog reshuffles them into our library, and the 10-turn clock of Mishra's workshop can't win in the three turns it takes for us to redraw our combo. Whoever casts their winning spell first, Channel or Balance, is inevitably the loser. This seems like the archetypical draw scenario to me.

    Also stumped on the Channel-Ulamog vs Alaborn Zealot matchup. I feel like I'm missing something here.
    You're right, it is actually a draw. (I had it that way at first, but I second-guessed myself.) He doesn't play anything until you play Ulamog. Then he forces you to sacrifice him and you cannot afford to replay him because he costs 11 life a pop. So, you don't play, so he doesn't either. That moves you to second.

    Against the Plains, Mana Tithe, Alaborn Zealot deck, it's the Mana Tithe that stops you. Going first, he plays the zealot and can still counter your Channel, while going second, he's forced to hold mana back to counter.

    As for the Balance-Summons match, Balance will destroy the Factory because the summons deck has no land. So he can't clear the field and win and he can't outrace it either. However, he can stop it by either blocking and pumping or using the balance.
    Last edited by TiaC; 2016-09-17 at 12:15 AM.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    Against the Plains, Mana Tithe, Alaborn Zealot deck, it's the Mana Tithe that stops you. Going first, he plays the zealot and can still counter your Channel, while going second, he's forced to hold mana back to counter.

    As for the Balance-Summons match, Balance will destroy the Factory because the summons deck has no land. So he can't clear the field and win and he can't outrace it either. However, he can stop it by either blocking and pumping or using the balance.
    Oh, makes sense. I missed the citp on the depletion lands due to its weird placing, and the latter explanation makes sense. Carry on, then.
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Funny, because I was anticipating a mirror match of sorts.
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    No planes? But the dreampods deck was so fun. Also, I'm kinda surprised channel was still around given how much it was used earlier
    Last edited by Tom the Mime; 2016-09-17 at 07:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Would you mind bolding the newly-banned cards each round? I generally remember what gets banned, but it's several steps for me to figure out what's different each time.

    Also, I'm so sad that I didn't use Mox Pearl, as that would have given me draws instead of losses against the balance match. It's a lot of fun trying to remember what all the actually good strategies are in this game.
    Last edited by tgva8889; 2016-09-17 at 08:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    I don't see how I get draws against Bobb.

    On the play, I can Thoughtseize Devastating Summons and then kill him since he doesn't do anything.

    On the draw I can wait for him to hit me down to <13 life (or tap cabal pit if he doesn't attack), wait till I have an 8/8 and 5 life, and attack - if he blocks he loses a 2/2, and puts me to 3 on the backswing, I swing for 10 and then he puts me to 1 before dying. If he doesn't block, he goes to 12, puts me to 1 on the backswing, then dies to my 12/12.

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlet View Post
    I don't see how I get draws against Bobb.

    On the play, I can Thoughtseize Devastating Summons and then kill him since he doesn't do anything.

    On the draw I can wait for him to hit me down to <13 life (or tap cabal pit if he doesn't attack), wait till I have an 8/8 and 5 life, and attack - if he blocks he loses a 2/2, and puts me to 3 on the backswing, I swing for 10 and then he puts me to 1 before dying. If he doesn't block, he goes to 12, puts me to 1 on the backswing, then dies to my 12/12.
    On the play, you're absolutely correct. I don't know what I was thinking.

    However, on the draw, it's a little different. When you attack for 8, he doesn't block and swings back for 2. Now, you're at 3 with a 10/10. If you tap the pit, he attacks and kills you. If you attack, he hits back and kills you. So, it's a draw.

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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Question: What does Booster Tutor do in this format?

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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlet View Post
    Question: What does Booster Tutor do in this format?
    The general rule is that you have a three-card sideboard to draw from. So, in keeping with that and the no hidden information rule, I'm going to say that you pick a set of three cards that could theoretically be found in a single booster when you send in your deck and it fetches you one of those.

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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    The general rule is that you have a three-card sideboard to draw from. So, in keeping with that and the no hidden information rule, I'm going to say that you pick a set of three cards that could theoretically be found in a single booster when you send in your deck and it fetches you one of those.
    I don't think it'd be much use anyway but I would've thought the bad luck applying to random events would apply here and you wouldn't get any useful cards from the sealed booster.
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    The general rule is that you have a three-card sideboard to draw from. So, in keeping with that and the no hidden information rule, I'm going to say that you pick a set of three cards that could theoretically be found in a single booster when you send in your deck and it fetches you one of those.
    What happens with something like Research that nabs 4 cards?
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom the Mime View Post
    I don't think it'd be much use anyway but I would've thought the bad luck applying to random events would apply here and you wouldn't get any useful cards from the sealed booster.
    That would be one way to play it, but then someone would submit a deck that could always cast whatever it got and force me to work out what would be the worst booster they could open of the named set.

    I was thinking that perfect information would mean that you would know the contents of the booster before opening it and be able to pick the right booster and name three cards from it as your sideboard. I think I'll stick with that because it doesn't seem more powerful than the wishes due to needing to be cards from the same set.

    Edit: I also try not to make cards completely useless. This is part of why you still have draw steps even without libraries, so that cards that replace draws or shuffle cards into your library work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    What happens with something like Research that nabs 4 cards?
    Since it nabs up to 4 cards, you would only be able to get three. They would go into your library in the worst order for you.
    Last edited by TiaC; 2016-09-19 at 05:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Are we allowed to switch decks within a round by sending in an updated decklist?


    ----
    Regarding Booster Tutor, by the existing rules the player casting the Tutor chooses an expansion, the other player chooses the appropriate number of cards of each rarity from that expansion, and the caster chooses one of those. In practice, this would mean a choice between a basic land and an uncastable spell.
    Last edited by Bucky; 2016-09-20 at 12:26 PM.
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    Are we allowed to switch decks within a round by sending in an updated decklist?


    ----
    Regarding Booster Tutor, by the existing rules the player casting the Tutor chooses an expansion, the other player chooses the appropriate number of cards of each rarity from that expansion, and the caster chooses one of those. In practice, this would mean a choice between a basic land and an uncastable spell.
    You can always change your deck until I've posted the results.

    I think I will continue to treat Booster Tutor as hidden information rather than a random event. If you know what's in the pack before you open it you can get the cards you want 100% of the time. However, you can still only pick cards from your sideboard. So, you must name three cards when you send in your deck.

    Edit: I have a lot of decks, so I'm going to post the round.
    Last edited by TiaC; 2016-09-20 at 03:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Round 13 is on! Hope no one has Triskaidekaphobia!


    Jormengand:Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Dark Depths, Vampire Hexmage
    ben-zayb: Ghost Quarter, Vault Skirge, Mental Misstep
    tgva8889: Ghost Quarter, Subterranean Hangar, Infernal Spawn of Evil
    Tom the Mime: Ghost Quarter, Soldevi Sentry, Mental Misstep
    Fable Wright: Ancient Spring, Mental Misstep, Tidehollow Sculler
    Gauntlet: R&D's Secret Lair, Lion's Eye Diamond, Elvish Farmer
    food: Maze of Ith, Cathedral of War, Blinkmoth Nexus
    Ninjaman: Slippery Boggle, The Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale, Forest
    Bucky: Ghost Quarter, Lotus Petal, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben



    Jormengand:Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Dark Depths, Vampire Hexmage
    Vs. ben-zayb: DL (1)
    Vs. tgva8889: LL (1)
    Vs. Tom the Mime: DL (2)
    Vs. Fable Wright: WL (5)
    Vs. Gauntlet: LL (5)
    Vs. food: DD (7)
    Vs. Ninjaman: WW (13)
    Vs. Bucky: DL (14)

    ben-zayb: Ghost Quarter, Vault Skirge, Mental Misstep
    Vs. Jormengand: WD (4)
    Vs. tgva8889: DD (6)
    Vs. Tom the Mime: WW (12)
    Vs. Fable Wright: WD (16)
    Vs. Gauntlet: LL (16)
    Vs. food: DD (18)
    Vs. Ninjaman: WW (24)
    Vs. Bucky: LL (24)

    tgva8889: Ghost Quarter, Subterranean Hangar, Infernal Spawn of Evil
    Vs. Jormengand: WW (6)
    Vs. ben-zayb: DD (8)
    Vs. Tom the Mime: DD (10)
    Vs. Fable Wright: WW (16)
    Vs. Gauntlet: WL (19)
    Vs. food: WW (25)
    Vs. Ninjaman: WW (31)
    Vs. Bucky: DL (32)

    Tom the Mime: Ghost Quarter, Soldevi Sentry, Mental Misstep
    Vs. Jormengand: WD (4)
    Vs. ben-zayb: LL (4)
    Vs. tgva8889: DD (6)
    Vs. Fable Wright: WD (10)
    Vs. Gauntlet: LL (10)
    Vs. food: DD (12)
    Vs. Ninjaman: WW (18)
    Vs. Bucky: LL (18)

    Fable Wright: Ancient Spring, Mental Misstep, Tidehollow Sculler
    Vs. Jormengand: WL (3)
    Vs. ben-zayb: DL (4)
    Vs. tgva8889: LL (4)
    Vs. Tom the Mime: DL (5)
    Vs. Gauntlet: LL (5)
    Vs. food: LL (5)
    Vs. Ninjaman: DD (7)
    Vs. Bucky: LL (7)

    Gauntlet: R&D's Secret Lair, Lion's Eye Diamond, Elvish Farmer
    Vs. Jormengand: WW (6)
    Vs. ben-zayb: WW (12)
    Vs. tgva8889: WL (15)
    Vs. Tom the Mime: WW (21)
    Vs. Fable Wright: WW (27)
    Vs. food: WW (33)
    Vs. Ninjaman: DD (35)
    Vs. Bucky: WW (41)

    food: Maze of Ith, Cathedral of War, Blinkmoth Nexus
    Vs. Jormengand: DD (2)
    Vs. ben-zayb: DD (4)
    Vs. tgva8889: LL (4)
    Vs. Tom the Mime: DD (6)
    Vs. Fable Wright: WW (12)
    Vs. Gauntlet: LL (12)
    Vs. Ninjaman: WW (18)
    Vs. Bucky: LL (18)

    Ninjaman: Slippery Boggle, The Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale, Forest
    Vs. Jormengand: LL (0)
    Vs. ben-zayb: LL (0)
    Vs. tgva8889: LL (0)
    Vs. Tom the Mime: LL (0)
    Vs. Fable Wright: DD (2)
    Vs. Gauntlet: DD (4)
    Vs. food: LL (4)
    Vs. Bucky: LL (4)

    Bucky: Ghost Quarter, Lotus Petal, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    Vs. Jormengand: WD (4)
    Vs. ben-zayb: WW (10)
    Vs. tgva8889: WD (14)
    Vs. Tom the Mime: WW (20)
    Vs. Fable Wright: WW (26)
    Vs. Gauntlet: LL (26)
    Vs. food: WW (32)
    Vs. Ninjaman: WW (38)

    Gold: Gauntlet
    Silver: Bucky
    Bronze: tgva8889
    Misstepped: ben-zayb
    The Misstep Two-step: Tom the Mime, food
    Entombed: Jormengand
    Sprung: Fable Wright
    Slipped: Ninjaman

    This round was defined by Ghost Quarter, with nearly half the decks containing it. Bucky's deck made the best use of it. Despite Thalia's ability never coming up, merely having a 2/1 first strike was enough to win a lot of matches. Gauntlet used one of the more irritating Unhinged cards to judge and removed it from the pool, so that's a win for me. Ninjaman's deck was able to beat him after an arbitrarily large yet still finite number of turns. There are some rather powerful decks still out there it would seem.

    Spoiler: Current Ban List
    Show
    Land: Bazaar of Baghdad, City of Traitors, Dryad Arbor, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, Mishra's Workshop, R&D's Secret Lair, Strip Mine, Tundra

    Colorless: Arcbound Slith, Black Lotus, Blacker Lotus, Chronomaton, Emrakul the Aeons torn, Lion's Eye Diamond, Memnite, Mox Pearl, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Steel Overseer, The Rack, Topor Orb

    Black: Entomber Exarch

    Blue: Daze, Force of Will, Laboratory Maniac, Leyline of Anticipation, Zephyr Spirit

    Green: Elvish Farmer, Form of the Squirrel, Helix Pinnacle

    Red: Chancellor of the Forge

    White: Balance, Chancellor of the Annex, Doomed Traveler


    Round 14 begins not with a bang but a whimper.
    Last edited by TiaC; 2016-09-21 at 04:35 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Could you clarify how you think r&d interacts with gauntlets other cards? Can't see how it'd let you play the farmer before the discard or otherwise get around anything.
    Being a mime means never having to say you're sorry.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom the Mime View Post
    Could you clarify how you think r&d interacts with gauntlets other cards? Can't see how it'd let you play the farmer before the discard or otherwise get around anything.
    Mana abilities can be activated as part of casting a spell, by which point the spell is on the stack. Lion's Eye Diamond has therefore been given errata saying "Activate this ability only any time you could cast an instant." Without that, it can be used to cast a spell.

    As to the Elvish farmer, since the removal of counters and sacrifice of creatures is not part of the cost of either ability, they can be activated even if the farmer has no counters on it or no Saprolings are in play. They will remove counters (even if there are none) or make him sacrifice a Saproling (even if he doesn't have any) and then create a Saproling or give him 2 life. So, he can get as many 1/1s and as much life as he wants.
    Last edited by TiaC; 2019-10-22 at 09:31 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    I should have WW vs. food. I always Ghost Quarter the Maze pre-combat on my second turn. He can't attack on his second turn because Cathedral ETBT or the Nexus is summoning sick. He can't block profitably because of First Strike. So I win the race.


    On the other hand, I don't see my draw line vs. Gauntlet.

    -----

    Do we need to specify which versions of each card we're using in case of R&D's Secret Lair?


    -----

    I disagree on your interpretation of pre-errata Elvish Farmer. I interpret "Sacrifice a Saproling to gain 2 life" to be equivalent to the modern "Sacrifice a Saproling. If you do, gain 2 life".
    Last edited by Bucky; 2016-09-20 at 09:27 PM.
    The gnomes once had many mines, but now they have gnome ore.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I should have WW vs. food. I always Ghost Quarter the Maze pre-combat on my second turn. He can't attack on his second turn because Cathedral ETBT or the Nexus is summoning sick. He can't block profitably because of First Strike. So I win the race.


    On the other hand, I don't see my draw line vs. Gauntlet.

    -----

    Do we need to specify which versions of each card we're using in case of R&D's Secret Lair?


    -----

    I disagree on your interpretation of pre-errata Elvish Farmer. I interpret "Sacrifice a Saproling to gain 2 life" to be equivalent to the modern "Sacrifice a Saproling. If you do, gain 2 life".
    I missed the ETBT on cathedral, so you do WW vs. food.
    Against Gauntlet, you don't play Thalia and ghost quarter the lair as soon as it enters play. Since the diamond and farmer aren't instants he can't respond and he can't cast the farmer without the lair.

    You do (and Gauntlet did) need to specify version for the Lair if you play it. if it's your opponent's lair, you are assumed to use the best version for you.

    As to the Farmer, I would say it is closer to effects that look like "tap target creature, that creature gets...". You can target a creature even if it's already tapped. Similarly, you can remove counters from the farmer even if it doesn't have any. It's more clear-cut for the first ability, because there are already cards that remove counters from cards without counters. e.g. Ebon Praetor allows you to sacrifice a Thrull for +1/+0 even if it doesn't have any -2/-2 counters.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    food
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    I think I beat jormengand. They can never get more than 1 creature so maze holds them off while blink moth flies over.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    I missed the ETBT on cathedral, so you do WW vs. food.
    Against Gauntlet, you don't play Thalia and ghost quarter the lair as soon as it enters play. Since the diamond and farmer aren't instants he can't respond and he can't cast the farmer without the lair.
    .
    I'm pretty sure of the following but not 100%. Gauntlet plays diamond first and then plays the lair. Playing a land doesn't shift priority so gauntlet plays farmer and at mana source speed for diamond sac, land destruction only means the farmer abilities can't be abused. This doesn't matter though as Bucky now has no way to get Thalia out and the token every three turns gets him eventually. WW

    Quote Originally Posted by food View Post
    I think I beat jormengand. They can never get more than 1 creature so maze holds them off while blink moth flies over.
    Dark depths also flies. DD

    Also, although it's being picky grammatically (you kind of have to be for the lair), I agree with Bucky for farmer as how it is phrased literally would be the same as 0: this card gains the ability "remove three spore counters: create a 1/1 saproling token". The ebon praetor example isn't valid as sacrificing the creature is the cost there. For it to be analogous you would have to be able to sacrifice a creature when you have no creatures. The errata seems to be for clarity rather than an actual rule change. That being said, it should still be allowed for this round given Gauntlet clearly checked with you beforehand and changing now wouldn't be fair if they'd got confirmation beforehand.
    Last edited by Tom the Mime; 2016-09-20 at 11:57 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Re: Farmer

    The issue is the word "to", indicating here that the second part of the effect is dependent on the first.

    It sticks out to me because it happens to be the standard wording a different card game uses for nonstandard costs.
    Last edited by Bucky; 2016-09-21 at 12:04 AM.
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  30. - Top - End - #30
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    Default Re: Revenge of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom the Mime View Post
    I'm pretty sure of the following but not 100%. Gauntlet plays diamond first and then plays the lair. Playing a land doesn't shift priority so gauntlet plays farmer and at mana source speed for diamond sac, land destruction only means the farmer abilities can't be abused. This doesn't matter though as Bucky now has no way to get Thalia out and the token every three turns gets him eventually. WW
    Ug, that seems to be right. That makes him WW against all the ghost quarter decks except tgva8889's, putting him in first place.


    Also, although it's being picky grammatically (you kind of have to be for the lair), I agree with Bucky for farmer as how it is phrased literally would be the same as 0: this card gains the ability "remove three spore counters: create a 1/1 saproling token". The ebon praetor example isn't valid as sacrificing the creature is the cost there. For it to be analogous you would have to be able to sacrifice a creature when you have no creatures. The errata seems to be for clarity rather than an actual rule change. That being said, it should still be allowed for this round given Gauntlet clearly checked with you beforehand and changing now wouldn't be fair if they'd got confirmation beforehand.
    I'm less sure about the Farmer's second activated ability, but he doesn't need it. My point is that for the first activated ability, since removing counters is not a cost, he can remove counters even if there are none and then get his 1/1. Happily though, with the change in the standings, the card is now banned and I never have to make a ruling for it again.

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