Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

[Ashiel]

Players can be get whiny (I gotta admit I do it on occasion. Sorry, Rynjin)... It becomes a real problem when they start doing so constantly.

It was quite confusing. I tend to enjoy getting feedback from players and try to adjust my style accordingly. Nothing seemed to be working with that group though. Even meta-stuff they complained about. Like, my friend Rai has this wonderful habit of engaging with the GM to make their character fit into the world (spitballing ideas back and forth about where she was, why she was, who is important to her, why she adventures, etc) which leads to things like NPCs knowing who she is or her having friends and stuff like that. Nothing mechanically advantageous but it's a neat way to drop plot hooks and give some character development.

I made a strong attempt to do this with everyone. Like one wanted to play a spoiled rich tiefling noble who comes from a wealthy and well to do family, so I included a tiefling on the board of directors of a guild that the party was frequently involved with, and then he promptly complained that he felt like he (his character) was "too important". He largely just kind of ignored anything about his family even when they were talking to him. Some of the other PCs were similar (socketed them into the campaign in pretty neat ways, most ignored it). They would literally complain that Rai was the "main character and they weren't important enough" and then turn around in the next breath and complain about how too important they were. It's like... what do you do?

It's sad to see a good group go down the drain like that, but don't let it put you down, Ash. You're always welcome to get on Roll20 and Discord to play with us... In fact, I'm pretty sure you owe me a campaign since 2 or 3 years ago!

Yeah I probably do. I don't use Roll20 though (and frankly wouldn't since the owners are racist asshats). I prefer Maptools but I could probably be convinced to try Fantasygrounds. I have discord though so feel free to drop me a link sometime.

And sometimes, just taking a breather is a good idea... I know I was completely burned out on RPGs in general until I finally, FINALLY, had a chance to actually play in a game instead of GMing... And it was a 5e game. I lost contact with most of that group, but I'm still very grateful to the GM and his friends for completely reinvigorating my enthusiasm for tabletop RPGs.

Yeah I'm getting the fire back and it's nice.

---

On an unrelated note, how is your non-RPG life going, Ash? You gotta become easier to contact, man... When you disappear after going surgical procedures, we get worried! Create a Discord account or something!

It's going pretty fair I think. Lots of adult worries as usual but I'm hanging in there. I didn't have any surgeries though (can't afford them actually) but estrogen is a hell of a drug. As mentioned above, I do have discord. ^.^

I'm gonna try to respond to Zilrax when I get home from work. ^_^

[Zilrax]

No rush haha.

Oof yeah I worry about that sometimes, I have a similar issue, but no ones complained about it yet so I guess it's needless fretting thus far. I admit I tend to not actually know who my character is until I play them a session or two, so I usually don't like doing background too much too early. I wrote big back stories when I was first starting, but they often felt like they were a lodestone when the char decided to go off their own way and they stopped making sense to their background.

Also I am sad. They errata'd out Covering Fire team work feat. Now it gives people with guns the ability to give enemies a non stacking -2 to hit on other people with the feat. And it has to be with firearms.

Huh. Serendipity. Evidently the final AP for pathfinder 1.0 is the escape of the Whispering tyrant. Go figure.

[Ashiel]

Also I am sad. They errata'd out Covering Fire team work feat. Now it gives people with guns the ability to give enemies a non stacking -2 to hit on other people with the feat. And it has to be with firearms.

Ugh...Whaizo...

Huh. Serendipity. Evidently the final AP for pathfinder 1.0 is the escape of the Whispering tyrant. Go figure.

I have a doubt it involves rescuing him.

[Zilrax]

Having nice things is VERBOTEN. It might be abused by necromancers with the charnal soldiers feat! Or anyone with Leadership! Or Monster Tacticians! Think of the fighters Ashiel! Think of the fighters!

Nah totally does not. Obviously it's not fully written yet but from the looks of it...

Spoiler: Basic current manuscript

Show

It looks like the Whisering Way has gotten a hold of the Shield of Aroden and has turned it into a doomsday weapon which they used to blow up the pcs. The psychopomps save the pcs and send them back to stop this mess. Since their towns blown up they run to Vigil for help, but Vigil doesn't believe them and have their own problems. Then Vigil get's blown up, so the pcs run to gallowspire to try and stop the Whispering Tyrant before he regains his full power. Then he almost blows them up, but then Arazni teleports them to fantasy canada where she's originally from and where evidently Tar-baphon and Aroden have History as well as the Shield does. The final book has no manuscript up but I can only assume the pcs do something to stop Tar Baphon from blowing stuff up.

[Ashiel]

Yeah the campaign where rescuing Tar Baphon was a potential side quest (tied into one of the PC's situations) had a lot of patchwork done to make the Golarion lore make some sense. For example, the official story is that Tar Baphon was this terrible conqueror, except he didn't conquer **** really. He took control of Ustalav and the orcs of Belkzen and then sat his happy ass right there for half a millennia, which seems highly suspect when your closest neighbors are a country of primitive savages (won't be able to match your magical power) and mega fauna (creatures highly vulnerable to charm and fear spells, who also turn into powerful undead minions, and you're a necromancer who has no HD limits...), or a river nation that is similarly filled with nice undead to be had (like hydras) and has no centralized government or way to stop an invasion.

Nope, the shoe doesn't fit. So what actually happened, is if you noticed who composed the Shining Crusade, it was headed by Taldane who controlled the world's economy and banking and had themselves literally spent their time conquering everything with their "armies of exploration" or whatever they're called (the reason Taldane is "common" in Golarion); the dwarfs who were salty about the orcs driving them out of Belkzin (orcs who were now under Tar Baphon's banner); and followers of Aroden (who had a grudge against the lich because he made a fool of their god). So why this particular assortment of fellows?

Well, all had an axe to grind. Tar Baphon was too powerful for the Taldane empire to force themselves on like everyone else and had rejected their banking system (think world banking conspiracies IRL) so they needed to depose him, and they quickly found a few factions who would like to oust the lich on sheer principle. Taldane having the means to do so and controlling the information flow of most of the world then set out on a propaganda campaign about how Tar Baphon was this world conquering evil (such projection) and how they needed to go liberate the people of Ustalav. The rest is essentially history at that point, but the shame of the true motivations was tied to one of the character's backstories (her father and then as a result her found the secret history that the Shining Crusade was a sham and now the church of Imeodae is hunting her to silence her before anything happens, and by golly if Sarenrae can cannonically provide spells to "not-ISIS" then there can certainly be some corruption within Imeodae's militant church).

But that doesn't say much about Tar Baphon himself. He was just a nobody necromancer born on the island in the center of Ustalav and became an obscenely powerful and super evil lich. So why would he need "rescuing"? Well this ties into the reason that he later sat his butt down in Ustalav for 500 years. You see, Ustalav is near where Thassilon (home of the runelords) once existed, now modern Varisia. So here's some interesting bits about the Runelord of Gluttony, taken from the wiki.

His undead body required constant renewal from a source left unmentioned in any surviving texts. He attained this unique undead state to allow him to continue glutting himself on the produce of his rich kingdom.[2]

Like all of the runelords, Zutha divined Thassilon's impending fall and made contingencies to survive. He bound his essence into an eldritch book, the Gluttonous Tome, that was split into three volumes and entrusted to his three greatest servants. Thassilon's destruction was more complete than Zutha anticipated, however, and the three books were scattered to the farthest corners of Avistan. If the three books are ever brought together, whoever possesses the reconstituted Gluttonous Tome will be possessed by the spirit of the undead runelord and Zutha will be free to plague the world once more.[3]

Basically, the lowly necromancer found the books and without knowing what would happen was taken over by the Runelord of Gluttony. Sitting on his butt for 500+ years makes tons of sense for said Runelord because 1) he would rather just rule and enjoy himself, 2) he would seal his kingdom off from the rest of the world since he likely was still paranoid about the other Runelords. It also explains how this fairly unknown necromancer just suddenly became super powerful, gathered an army, and went and picked a fight with a literal god for the lulz. He was one of the ancient Thassilonian runelords.

So the PC in question ends up making contact with the lingering spirit of the real Tar Baphon is still trapped in the runelord's power. So, to free him, the PCs would have to go to Gallowspire, defeat the Runelord of Gluttony in Tar Baphon's body/phylactery (now the "Whispering Tyrant") and exorcise him. No easy task, but one that would finally put an end to the Whispering Tyrant and gain the party and the nation of Ustalav a very nice ally in the process.

[TOZ]

It's going pretty fair I think. Lots of adult worries as usual but I'm hanging in there. I didn't have any surgeries though (can't afford them actually) but estrogen is a hell of a drug. As mentioned above, I do have discord. ^.^

Yeah, after Monty Oum, I'm always just a little apprehensive of even simple surgeries. Stay safe, Ash.

[Ashiel]

Yeah, after Monty Oum, I'm always just a little apprehensive of even simple surgeries. Stay safe, Ash.

Hey TOZ! ^.^

Also, Monty's loss stings even today. He was a talented and spirited individual taken too soon. I still watch his videos from time to time.

[Lemmy]

Hey TOZ! ^.^

Also, Monty's loss stings even today. He was a talented and spirited individual taken too soon. I still watch his videos from time to time.

I heard Rooster Teeth brought in some well-known animator... Maybe the next season of RWBY won't be complete garbage like the last 2.

[Zilrax]

Yeah, glad my sister's surgery went well. It's kinda all subsidized in Canada so that worked out in her favor. But yeah, even routine surgery carries a little bit of risk. Probably gonna be the biggest hurdle for when we finally go full cyborg enhancement dealy.

[Lemmy]

So... Ash... Have you checked PF2 yet? It's a pretty horrible game, IMHO... But I'd like to know what are your thoughts on it.

It's actually quite funny in some ways:

- They try to reduce the optimization gap, but then make the math so tight and unforgiving that you have to optimize just to have a 50~60% chance of success...
- They use a pretty cool 3-action system, but then undermine it by making EVERY LITTLE THING cost an action (even things like gripping your weapon's handle or having your animal companion do anything at all)...
- They try to reduce gear-dependency, but then make 80% of character's damage come from the weapon's magical enhancement...
- They try to make a more open-ended game... And then limit players actions to 11~12 option in their horribly designed "Exploration Mode".
- They try to make casters more balanced... And then make them so bad, they might as well be removed from the game (except, maybe, for Clerics... And even then, just for healbot-ing).
- They try to reduce the number of different types of bonus... And then make them so few that some classes simply can't work together because their main class features don't stack (e.g.: Bards and Barbarians).

Paizo tendency to nuke into oblivion anything above mediocrity made their whole game a really ****ty version of D&D 5e.

I'll say it again... IMHO, it's clear to me that Jason Bulhman and his team are actually really, really bad at this when they can't just coast on the work of others... And honestly, I have no idea who they intend to sell.thoa game to... They had a very rare one-of-a-kind opportunity when WotC released 4e, but now they don't have the benefit of a vastly disliked D&D edition and troves of people eager to try something similar to the last system WotC created.

Paizo needed to release a new edition because PF1 was so bloated it kinda ran out of design space... But with their choice to make PF2 a revolution instead of an evolution, they most likely lose a lot of customers to 5e in the long run.

[Zilrax]

Not to put words in Ashiel's mouth, but when we asked, basically he hasn't looked too hard into it but watched others experiences and is not impressed.

This honestly is what I scared was going to happen. Their goals looked really good. I was on board. But I also remembered it was Paizo and sure enough... The implementation didn't match the plan. And already we're coming up against the end of the playtest period. Seriously this thing needs waaaay more time to bake.

I mean Starfinder has huge issues but it's at least way more playable as is. It has close to the same problems with the math issues and such but... Otherwise it's more functional. I'd say it's more salvageble anyways.

I might be more biased though cus I get to play a hydra person though.

[Ashiel]

So... Ash... Have you checked PF2 yet? It's a pretty horrible game, IMHO... But I'd like to know what are your thoughts on it.

My grandma told me that if I can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. As a result, there's nothing I can say about PF2E.

I'll say it again... IMHO, it's clear to me that Jason Bulhman and his team are actually really, really bad at this when they can't just coast on the work of others... And honestly, I have no idea who they intend to sell.thoa game to... They had a very rare one-of-a-kind opportunity when WotC released 4e, but now they don't have the benefit of a vastly disliked D&D edition and troves of people eager to try something similar to the last system WotC created.

Paizo needed to release a new edition because PF1 was so bloated it kinda ran out of design space... But with their choice to make PF2 a revolution instead of an evolution, they most likely lose a lot of customers to 5e in the long run.

It's the Tower of Babel effect. Paizo grew too fast and expanded too quickly. When they started their model centered around providing adventure paths, modules, accessories, and campaign material. Such materials don't have the boom that splat books do, but they are much more sustainable since you can always write more adventures for a game, but the larger the game's material becomes the harder it is to slog through all the content, which both creates massive gaps in functionality (compounded by the fact Paizo can't balance anything which only throws gas on the fire) and makes the game less appealing and more daunting to new players who have to run through a mess like the SRD and myriad stupid subsystems added by the latest release of Ultimate Fisherman or some nonsense.

The worst part of it is, they should have known better. Paizo was founded by people that watched WotC pour gasoline on 3rd edition with their splatbook bloat. But no, they grew and just acted like they were more forever than diamonds. They've also completely lost their minds on priorities. I mean, they devoted the first pages of the playtest document to pushing social justice talking points? Really!?

EDIT: I believe the phrase goes "Get woke, go broke"?

[Zilrax]

Eh, it's the way of things these days. Me, I'll just wait to see d20 legends and use 1.0 until then in the interim. It's got enough stuff between 1st and third party for me to be entertained even if everything isn't perfect.

On that note, given how I'm doing things, that's something I'd wanna see eventually. Rules for making stuff out of monsters and such. Paizo made that at one point and it's... Adequate? Not great and I figure you could do better. Course jsut having a system to make scarier solo boss monsters would help a ton anyways. My current plan is throwing a bullete at one of em, and the other team I'm thinking some sort of... bat... spider... thing...

Of course stalking them with a Voyager is gonna amuse me too.

[Lemmy]

My grandma told me that if I can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. As a result, there's nothing I can say about PF2E.

I used to miss my grandma... Nowadays I got better aim.

It's the Tower of Babel effect. Paizo grew too fast and expanded too quickly. When they started their model centered around providing adventure paths, modules, accessories, and campaign material. Such materials don't have the boom that splat books do, but they are much more sustainable since you can always write more adventures for a game, but the larger the game's material becomes the harder it is to slog through all the content, which both creates massive gaps in functionality (compounded by the fact Paizo can't balance anything which only throws gas on the fire) and makes the game less appealing and more daunting to new players who have to run through a mess like the SRD and myriad stupid subsystems added by the latest release of Ultimate Fisherman or some nonsense.

Well... WotC crapped all over its product and gave Paizo many (possibly most) of their customers... It's only fair that Paizo return the favor.

Jokes aside, it's somewhat sad and somewhat hilarious seeing Paizo commit pretty much the same mistake that WotC did... Except their brand is nowhere as recognizable as D&D (which is known, at least in passing, to even my mother, a 63-yo woman who doesn't speak English and spent half her life in what could reasonably be called "Brazilian backwaters"... Admittedly, she can't really tell the difference between D&D and RPGs in general, and only has a vague idea that it's some kind of board game about killing dragons and saving princesses, but hey... It's something).

But all of it wouldn't be so bad if it was at least a good game... But except for a few good points, I honestly believe it's pretty much a crappy mix of some of the worst aspects of 4e and 5e... With some 3.5 crap sprinkled on top.

The worst part of it is, they should have known better. Paizo was founded by people that watched WotC pour gasoline on 3rd edition with their splatbook bloat. But no, they grew and just acted like they were more forever than diamonds. They've also completely lost their minds on priorities. I mean, they devoted the first pages of the playtest document to pushing social justice talking points? Really!?

EDIT: I believe the phrase goes "Get woke, go broke"?

The message itself doesn't even bother me... But the general virtue-signalling gets to really silly levels, such as even avoiding using the word "race". It's a shame, really... Paizo forums used to be quite a fun place, before the mods went full SJW and downright perma-banned anyone who disagreed with their social/political views (as you and I could see from point-blank) while giving complete carte blanche to their buds and employees, despite how misguided, ignorant or downright hateful they acted.

Paizo's SJW agenda slowly killed their forums, and I have no doubt it'll harm their business as well.

[Zilrax]

Well it eats itself too. There was a rather high profile person we all clashed with who got a rather famous boot now. But anyways aren't supposed to involve political-ish stuff here so yeah.

Heh. It occurs to me now flipping through. If you wanna get back to swing Ashiel you can always go to that encounter thread you set up and work on those maybe? It's an option anyways.

[Ashiel]

Well it eats itself too. There was a rather high profile person we all clashed with who got a rather famous boot now. But anyways aren't supposed to involve political-ish stuff here so yeah.

That reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend of mine recently. I think one of the things that's really bothered me is how entangled everything (and I mean everything) has become with politics, particularly within the gaming sphere. We've reached this rather awkward place where talking about current gaming trends and events cannot help but to at least glide over the realm of some sort of political snafu.

This really became apparent to me when the guy from the Quartering / Unsleeved Media youtube channels got his entire Magic the Gathering Online collection taken away by WotC, supposedly for breaking their terms of service on a platform they didn't have any rights to at all by posting in a facebook group that criticized a patreon cosplayer that sometimes dressed as MtG characters like Liliana Vess and sent lewds and such to her contributors.

Now the reason this was news and quite disturbing in fact was that it sets a rather dangerous precedent. Imagine if you could be banned from any other service because some game or something didn't like something you said in a conversation or on twitter or an internet forum, even if it wasn't on any platform they have any influence over.

When I mentioned this, one of my friends got panicky and left the conversation at the time because it was "too political". The fact it was "political" didn't even enter my mind at the time, but I realized he had a point. There was controversy surrounding it because of various political stances.

Then you get stuff where Paizo bans people for "wrongthink" or not taking a hard left-leaning political stance or not repeating certain points. You've got Jessica Price (the writer behind both the bad NPCs in Wrath of the Righteous and the Baldur's Gate Siege of Dragonspear controversy) getting fired from Guild Wars 2 for attacking people on twitter.

It's like if you want to talk about gaming, all roads lead to Sharn.

Heh. It occurs to me now flipping through. If you wanna get back to swing Ashiel you can always go to that encounter thread you set up and work on those maybe? It's an option anyways.

I recently wrote a sort of tutorial for some friends of mine on how to design adventures and encounters even if you don't actually know the levels or number of players that will be involved. The guide is essentially an aid to running living world campaigns and such.

I've had an inkling to make a youtube series about encounter design so I might do that soonish. And yeah, making encounters would probably be a fun thing to get back into in general. I recently ran a halloween encounter for some friends that involved a pack of goblins and their trained rats attacking a town during their hallows festival to steal their food and candy and stuff, and the party repelling them. The goblins were lead by the "headless horseman".

In reality the headless horseman was a goblin riding on the shoulders of another goblin riding on a large-sized rat, with a scarecrow with jack-o-lantern head strapped to their saddle with a green sunrod inside to make it glow ominously. The encounter used 3.5 rats (the 1/4 HD kind rather than the stronger than commoners Paizo rats), dire rats, goblins, and a new dread rat for the mount. It was good fun.

[Zilrax]

Oh I get it, trust me. I've complained about it plenty. Still, I just don't wanna be banned from here for definitely breaking it here :p. But yes this was the inevitable result of everyone getting to know everyone more. That's why I refuse to use mass social media. It's just asking for trouble ultimately.

In any case, I'm messing with the Voyager now. This is one of DSP's psionic classes and it is certainly a doozy I must say.

[Ashiel]

Here's something that can be discussed without roaming into politics I hope.

I've recently gotten a chance to bury myself in Spheres of Might/Power. There's a remarkably large amount of stuff in this that reminds me of how I was handling or wanted to handle a number of things in d20 legends (particularly how I usually build classes with talents to build your own dream person). At the moment I'm really enjoying this. Especially how easy they are to integrate with existing classes.

[Zilrax]

I keep hearing about Spheres but have never taken the time to give it a good investigating. Have to do that later I guess. Been busy with Delta Rune and swearing like a sailor as I am just awful at bullet hells. I didn't finally complete it until an hour ago. Finaaaaallly.

[Ashiel]

I believe the official Spheres SRD is this site.
http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/

I really like that unlike Path of War, the system plays very nice with existing material. You can pretty much just drag and drop Spheres of Might onto existing martials and the like, and they work much like feats. Spheres of Power is kind of like a feat-based spellcasting system.

Spheres of Power is noticeably powerful. I think it's more balanced overall than core magic but you can definitely do some limited but very strong things with it. For example, I created a necromancer that stacks +caster level effects from her magic tradition to animate around 15-18 HD worth of rather strong skeletons and zombies at 1st level that last for 5-6 hours. But that's pretty much all she can do for a while (and involves a casting tradition that requires her to stab herself with her ritual dagger a bunch to reduce herself to 25% or fewer hit points, she gains addictions to her magic with withdrawl effects, and fatigues herself when she casts real hard; so buffing the CL that hard is really only practical for out of combat making undead).

With it I made goats of doom. A goat of doom is a goat, plus the fast zombie template, with an extra +4 Strength and Dexterity. I chose goats because they're pretty small, look unassuming, are cheap to buy, can be eaten and their skeleton used for necromancy later, and they're creepy as hell with the whole witch vibe going on she has.

EDIT: At the moment I suppose she's the necromantic equivalent of Megu-meme. She only makes undead, but she she makes them big time.

[Rynjin]

Sounds more like she's Catherine.

Especially if the goats explode into goblin fire.

[Zilrax]

Yeah I kinda like these. I'm looking at Sphere's of Might's wrestling and thinking to myself, I can turn a Choker into the Strangler from Last Year.

Just walking around when suddenly... https://youtu.be/bTgFj3KA1EI?t=651

[Lemmy]

I'd just like to say that I'm really disappointed of how limited the free version of Fantasy Grounds is... I'm not a fan of the the membership model, and the "one pay only!" price is way too high (150 bucks to play with non-subscribers is way too much. And I'm not about to force my friends to spend money on it).

*sigh*

I guess I'll stick with Roll20 a little longer...

[Bartmanhomer]

Hey Ashiel, I got a question to ask you. Do you play Card Games? If so what the name of the card game do you play?

[Ashiel]

I'd just like to say that I'm really disappointed of how limited the free version of Fantasy Grounds is... I'm not a fan of the the membership model, and the "one pay only!" price is way too high (150 bucks to play with non-subscribers is way too much. And I'm not about to force my friends to spend money on it).

*sigh*

I guess I'll stick with Roll20 a little longer...

Yeah I'm looking into some other Roll20 alternatives. I personally use MapTool and have been for years now. However there's some other alternatives I've been looking into, compiling a small list of Roll20 alternatives.

• Rolisteam
• Epic Table
• MapTools / RPGTools
• Mote

Hey Ashiel, I got a question to ask you. Do you play Card Games? If so what the name of the card game do you play?

I used to play Magic the Gathering a bunch. Did pretty well in a few indie tournaments (won some of them too). Kinda fell out of it lately because I've had nobody to play with but my favorite way of playing is constructed w/ common + uncommon only. Generally produces very fun games that are fast paced and well balanced, and the whole deck will usually run $10 or less.

EDIT: I'm also a fan of Cards Against Humanity, and will try most anything.

[Ashiel]

Yeah I kinda like these. I'm looking at Sphere's of Might's wrestling and thinking to myself, I can turn a Choker into the Strangler from Last Year.

Just walking around when suddenly... https://youtu.be/bTgFj3KA1EI?t=651

That game looks really interesting.

And yes, I've found monsters or NPC-classed characters + spheres seems to be a very nice option.

[Zilrax]

Yeah it's kinda DBDish but a lot less hide from the killer and more try to outsmart him while he tries to waste your time by making you have to move from the objective to save people. If you split up, you risk being easier to pick off, but if you keep together you waste more time not doing objectives.

Each killer has their own traits and special trick. Slasher is the fastest and he can use skylights and he does the most damage on a swing. Strangler as demonstrated there can reel people in and choke them out and can use the low vents. A common trick with Strangler is to rig the ground accesses to open when anyone walks on them to drop them to the basement, then reel people into the trap to drop them down below, forcing the survivors to pick between jumping down after them and wasting more time or letting them get picked off.

The giant meanwhile is super slow but can grab people and toss them and has a clumsy charge. He can burst out of certain brick walls in the basement. He has the most hp obviously.

The survivors have their own advantages too. Each player picks a class. There's 4 classes, Tinker, Medic, Assault and Scout. Tinkers craft nailgun turrets that are really powerful, but having two in an area will make them fight each other, so it's generally wise to not try and stack turrets in a small area. Assaults auto attack with pipes, Medics heal, and Scouts can highlight the killers traps and see if they're in the skylights, low vents or walls. They also can blind the killer with their flashlight scanner, which also tells them when the killer manifests themselves. But also they can find scrap to upgrade their abilities and get new gear. So if the killer ignores the players too much they risk them getting stronger and crafting things like smokebombs, shotguns and other equipment.

The objectives fairly simple at least right now. Survivors have ten minutes or so to collect two gascans that spawn randomly from predefined locations and bring them to the lift. Then hold the lifts button to position it in place. Then open the escape gate, which then triggers the final rush as the survivors have one minute to reach the escape hatch before it shuts and the game ends. Given the narrow catwalks up there, it becomes critical for survivors to have useful crowd control or ranged damaging methods to try and stop the killer up there, because there's very very VERY little room to maneuver.

It's worth noting the killer may only manifest and de manifest as long as no player has direct line of sight to them. Thus it's possible to essentially trap weaker killers like the Strangler by keeping them in view. As the Strangler has the least ability to win a fight, and he's not very fast, he needs to be careful.

Also tinkers can barricade doors and floor vents. The Killer cannot ghost form through barricaed entrances and has to spend time hacking them open. Players can use high vents to move into adjacent rooms so the killer has to decide between heading to the other room and them opening the barricade and slipping them, or hacking it open and risking them slipping out behind him.

Needless to say there's a lot more mindgames and counterplay in it than in DBD and it's not even finished yet so I'm definitely enjoying watching it.

As for card games I've recently gotten into playing Dreamkeepers, Shadow Wars of Andrunna which is pretty fun. It's not a TCG since you just buy decks wholesale and such but it's certainly an interesting competitive card game.

The spheres came in a useful time. I've got the hobgoblins besieging the pcs new tower at some point and I noticed the Technician can have a Tank. So I'm making the hobgoblin boss a literal tank. This should be fun.

[Bartmanhomer]

Yeah I'm looking into some other Roll20 alternatives. I personally use MapTool and have been for years now. However there's some other alternatives I've been looking into, compiling a small list of Roll20 alternatives.

• Rolisteam
• Epic Table
• MapTools / RPGTools
• Mote

I used to play Magic the Gathering a bunch. Did pretty well in a few indie tournaments (won some of them too). Kinda fell out of it lately because I've had nobody to play with but my favorite way of playing is constructed w/ common + uncommon only. Generally produces very fun games that are fast paced and well balanced, and the whole deck will usually run $10 or less.

EDIT: I'm also a fan of Cards Against Humanity, and will try most anything.

I play Magic the Gathering. But I didn't get any feel from that game. I've heard of Cards of Humanity. What's the purpose of that game anyway?

[Zilrax]

It's a party style game, kinda like trivial pursuit and such.

Everyone draws x amount of cards, then one person in a rotating fashion draws a topic card. Then the other players each play one of their cards, and fills in the blanks on the topic card. Whichever card the topic card player likes best as an answer wins. The original card game is called Apples to Apples I believe.

Cards against humanity is generally quite edgy and offensive where it can be and is generally shock humor oriented. There's several expansion and versions and third party versions like Crabs against Humidity.

[Bartmanhomer]

It's a party style game, kinda like trivial pursuit and such.

Everyone draws x amount of cards, then one person in a rotating fashion draws a topic card. Then the other players each play one of their cards, and fills in the blanks on the topic card. Whichever card the topic card player likes best as an answer wins. The original card game is called Apples to Apples I believe.

Cards against humanity is generally quite edgy and offensive where it can be and is generally shock humor oriented. There's several expansion and versions and third party versions like Crabs against Humidity.

Oh wow! That's one card game that I'll stay away from!