DM Paperwork

[andylatham82]

Hi everyone,

I'm leaning about being a DM in D&D and that involves making certain checks without the players knowing about them.

Should the DM hold a copy of the players' character sheets so that he/she has their stats to hand for checks, or is it better to just write a few things like their passive perceptions on a piece of paper? The latter seems sensible to me to reduce the amount of paperwork the DM has to sift through.

Thanks!

[Darth Ultron]

It always works better to have a copy of each character sheet.

During just about any game a DM might need to know a hundred things about each character, and to stop and ask every single time can really slow the game down to a crawl.

[andylatham82]

It always works better to have a copy of each character sheet.

During just about any game a DM might need to know a hundred things about each character, and to stop and ask every single time can really slow the game down to a crawl.

Thanks, that makes sense. I guess in that case the DM must be on the ball with updating the sheets to match the players' copies.

[Koo Rehtorb]

I'm leaning about being a DM in D&D and that involves making certain checks without the players knowing about them.

This isn't necessarily true. You don't have to play this way if you don't want to, and it seems like a lot less hassle.

[Mutazoia]

There are party reference sheets that people have made that make this a lot easier than it sounds. This Site has two (under "Party Admisistration) that you can use...one for skills and one for the other stats.

[RazorChain]

Hi everyone,

I'm leaning about being a DM in D&D and that involves making certain checks without the players knowing about them.

Should the DM hold a copy of the players' character sheets so that he/she has their stats to hand for checks, or is it better to just write a few things like their passive perceptions on a piece of paper? The latter seems sensible to me to reduce the amount of paperwork the DM has to sift through.

Thanks!

I always keep a copy of my players characters.

A) This is way I know what they are capable of when planning encounters

B) I can make hidden rolls without asking about their stats/skills

C) Sometimes they forget bringing their character sheets although this happens less often in the digital age.

[Mr Blobby]

I always have a copy of each PC's sheets, period - as well as their kit listings / spellbooks / little list of previous interactions with NPC's etc. While my players usually keep their own records too, I make it clear - mine are the master copies [at least with the char sheet]. I had an issue with a cheating player once...

They're all electronic, and if I'm doing a tabletop I print off a couple of copies for each player to put in their books before the session. I'll consult the one on my laptop screen [which is angled so the players can't see it]. As I also use said laptop for my own notes, looking at pdfs and yes, rolling dice it means it's not obvious what I'm doing exactly... we all know the feeling of dread as the DM is sitting there repeatedly rolling while your character is in an apparently empty room...

[Psikerlord]

I think PP is broken and don't use it. Instead i fall back on the old "get players to roll 10 perception checks" at session start, and secretly use one as required. Apart from that, i don't usually need anything else related to their sheet.

[LooseCannoneer]

I keep copies of the player's current characters. I personally find it keeps down the hassle, plus one extra sheet in the mass of Continuum span books isn't too bad. It makes for a good cover sheet for that section in the binder, anyways.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I've never really bothered to keep copies of character sheets, and don't really look at them when players choose to leave them with me. Partly because I've often helped everyone out in character creation, but mostly because... I don't think it's necessary. I trust my friends to not cheat, and my philosophy is that it's better to build adventures around in-universe logic than to try and take every one of a players' abilities into consideration. They made choice X that lets them bypass challenge Y? Awesome; now they get to show off. And I never build challenges with only way way through them, so I don't have to worry about missing abilities, either. If you went to make hidden Perception/Insight/whatever checks, just write them down on a notecard. You weren't going to flip through five different sheets mid-game anyway.

[Âmesang]

All of my recent games have been fairly loose when it came to situations such as this, but even then I posted the stats for my longest-running character online for all to see and reference (especially with regards to her copious amounts of backstory).

I even went so far as to produce my own 3"×5" cards to copy down base character info (including a big initiative recording box so that the cards can be easily rearranged based on what was rolled).

[Jay R]

I have a single sheet with a matrix, showing each character's saving throws, stats, AC, Spot, Listen, and top two weapons, and a few other things that seem right for that game.

[Knaight]

I've never really bothered to keep copies of character sheets, and don't really look at them when players choose to leave them with me. Partly because I've often helped everyone out in character creation, but mostly because... I don't think it's necessary. I trust my friends to not cheat, and my philosophy is that it's better to build adventures around in-universe logic than to try and take every one of a players' abilities into consideration. They made choice X that lets them bypass challenge Y? Awesome; now they get to show off. And I never build challenges with only way way through them, so I don't have to worry about missing abilities, either. If you went to make hidden Perception/Insight/whatever checks, just write them down on a notecard. You weren't going to flip through five different sheets mid-game anyway.

It is nice to have certain notes though, particularly regarding things that would influence NPC reactions. If a character has a flaw about them being staggeringly ugly (in a system that uses flaws) that's worth noting. If a character is carrying or wearing something notable having that detail is pretty useful. Any reputation type gifts are worth having quick access to. I also trust my friends to not cheat and have a similar philosophy, but some of the character traits are relevant to in-universe logic.

[2D8HP]

Decades ago when I still had an agile mind, the games I most wanted to play and DM/GM were Dungeons & Dragons (Swords and Sorcery), Traveller (Space Opera), and Pendragon (Arthurian). I never got to play or GM Pendragon, but I did DM/GM a fair bit of D&D, and Traveller (strangely while I still remember much of old D&D, I actually remember a lot more Pendragon rules than Traveller rules, odd that). I really cared and worked hard on prep for D&D, and Traveller, and I filled notebooks with info to use in game.
My players wanted to try other games with different settings, chiefly Call of Cthullu (horror), and Top Secret (espionage), since I just didn't care as much about those games (I don't think I ever read all the rules of Top Secret), and I really "phoned it in". I described scenes I remembered from movies, and I made up most everything on the spot with little to no prep work on my part (I did have years of experience DM'ing already though).
My players loved it! So as an experiment I ran a D&D adventure, using almost exactly the same plot as I just used for CoC, if my players noticed they didn't let on and they seemed to have fun.
I don't know if I could improvise now like I could then, but I took from that, DM'ing doesn't require as much work as we often think it does.

[OldTrees1]

Planning:
For planning purposes you will want to know the capabilities of the PCs. How high of a resolution you need depends on how tight you want the math to be. If you want the PCs to have a 65% +/- 0% chance of success, then you NEED to have the character sheet in front of you. However if you prefer them having a 65% +/- 15% chance of success, then a rough idea of the character sheet is more than enough.

Running:
The only PC stats you need to know while running a session are:
1) All stats that come up a lot (Static defenses like AC or 4E Fort/Ref/Will)
2) All stats that you don't want the players to know you used (Spot/Listen/Saves are common secret checks)
Other than those details, you only need to roughly remember the characters.

[Professor Chimp]

I like using both a quick cheat sheet with basic info (ACs, saves, stat bonuses) and fully detailed copies of their character sheets.

The former is for general low-stakes situations where I don't want to bog the game down with details, like a fight against some mooks or haggling over the selling price of that low tier magical item. The info is not entirely accurate, but it doesn't need to be.

The character sheets are reserved for the more important and serious stuff.

[gman1553]

I would say it depends on the size of your group. If you have to carry around 8 character sheets for the PCs plus all the information for your NPCs / Monsters / BBG, that's a lot of stuff to keep track of for every session, not to mention you start shuffling through character sheets, they'll notice and know something is about to happen.

I use a small notebook with the stats and rolls I know i'll need.
Class based skills are also noted.
I keep it open at all times (though maybe not to those pages) so they can see me looking at it. That way when I do something, it may or may not look like i'm doing something they should expect.

And by all means, roll dice randomly. It'll keep em on edge.

[MintyNinja]

In our group every player fills out a folded name card. Their name in big letters on one side, and pertinent information on the other. This way when the GM calls for initiative, he just arranges the cards along the top of his screen in the right order and he has all that information right there. It's quick and easy for combat and not necessarily secret rolls and such.

[Quertus]

Hi everyone,

I'm leaning about being a DM in D&D and that involves making certain checks without the players knowing about them.

Should the DM hold a copy of the players' character sheets so that he/she has their stats to hand for checks, or is it better to just write a few things like their passive perceptions on a piece of paper? The latter seems sensible to me to reduce the amount of paperwork the DM has to sift through.

Thanks!

This is, in a way, part of my initial conversation and establishment of social contract with my players.

I ask for name, AC, any special senses, and that's it for things I write down*.

Then I ask for a brief physical description, for everyone's benefit.

I don't care about your HP. The monsters deal the damage they deal, I'm not going to pull my punches.

I don't care about your saves or stats. What's there is what's there, I'll tell you the DCs you need to hit.

I don't care about your skills - although, when you hit a DC 20 or 30 above what I asked for, I'll probably stop asking you to make rolls, and just skip to the "you succeed" narration.

I don't care about your character class, alignment, race (beyond how that changes your appearance and how people interact with you). At least, not until some effect specifically targets that.

I only care about how the world is going to directly interact with your character (appearance, AC), and how your character affects what I need to tell them about the world (senses).

I expect most modern programmers will have a similarly minimal interface between the world and the PCs.

* there are occasionally exceptions, like things that passively affect the world, permanent sanctuary effects, etc, that I find handy to record as one-offs.

[Aotrs Commander]

In our group, the modus operandi is the DM keeps the character sheets (the players of course can have their own copy if they want, but the master copy has to be left with the DM in case they aren't there).

Typically, then, if the DM doesn't just straight ask for Perception checks anyway, if the passive perception (or any other check they considered was necessary to be completely secret from the player) was required, the DM would usually have worked it out before hand (well, I do anyway); but to be honest, we don't tend to use passive Perception much, rather just calling for checks and if no-one makes anything, just nodding and saying "you don't notice anything."

Or occasionally, the DM might say to a player "pass me your character sheet for a moment," and do something like make a secret check behind the screen (or nothing, if you want to instill a sense on unease in the players...) and hand it back.

[Quertus]

Or occasionally, the DM might say to a player "pass me your character sheet for a moment," and do something like make a secret check behind the screen (or nothing, if you want to instill a sense on unease in the players...) and hand it back.

Good call! The occasional "hand me your character sheet" is great for instilling paranoia and fear in the players.

And, under my system, it's fairly well required when something attempts to interact with the players in an atypical fashion: a thief looking for a coin purse to cut, a dog / troll / whatever sniffing for food, an NPC who will recognize something if it's visible (and not stowed away in a backpack or something), etc. Even a Detect Magic spell qualifies as an atypical interaction, and allows a "hand me your character sheets" moment.

[ComaVision]

I don't do any secret rolls at my table. If I were doing a horror scenario or otherwise trying to build tension I might. If I ask for a round of Spot checks and none of them hit the "real" DC, I'll probably give them some information about something else they see. Ideally, they won't ever know if they've seen everything they could have.

I don't keep character sheets either, or copies of them. Sometimes the players leave them at my house but they're free to do as they please. I don't care if my players cheat, as long as it isn't ruining the fun for anyone else at the table. I've occasionally had suspicions of someone fudging a roll but nobody has been caught in the act.

[J-H]

PBP only

I keep a spreadsheet with skills, saves, AC, etc. on it. A copy of it is posted at the top of the OOC page along with links to their character sheets.

To save massive amounts of wasted days, I roll most reactive checks (spot/listen/saves/spellcraft/knowledge/etc.) and let them know what their characters spotted or figured out. It keeps the game moving a lot faster.

[RyumaruMG]

I don't do any secret rolls at my table. If I were doing a horror scenario or otherwise trying to build tension I might. If I ask for a round of Spot checks and none of them hit the "real" DC, I'll probably give them some information about something else they see. Ideally, they won't ever know if they've seen everything they could have.

Oooh, I like this idea. Mind if I borrow it?

[ComaVision]

Oooh, I like this idea. Mind if I borrow it?

I'm sure I'm not the first DM to do that so absolutely, I hope it serves you well.

[D+1]

In the past I have occasionally required players to provide me with copies of their character sheets - nothing exhaustively detailed, just the high points - stats, bonuses, and magic items really. I seldom do so anymore because I always found that I never use them. I certainly do make secret rolls as the DM, but if I need to make a roll based on specific information from someone's character sheet then I'll just ask to look at the one they're using, or just TELL them to make a roll for "X". I generally try to avoid getting into situations where I need to roll FOR a PC and keep the results secret because it becomes cumbersome in general, but also because players know their characters so much better than I do by looking quickly over their sheets - I found that I frequently missed various bonuses and modifiers that make a difference in the outcome. More satisfying for all to have the players always make necessary rolls for their characters, let THEM forget bonuses and modifiers rather than ME, and control the flow of the game so that I'm not having to UNNECESSARILY do things "secretly".

For a new DM, however, I would actually advise that you obtain a copy of the character sheets anyway. The reason is not for making secret rolls, but for being able to spend time away from the game looking at the characters, becoming familiar with what they COULD do versus what the players actually HAVE them do, where they might be vulnerable, where they are likely to be stronger than they think, etc. When prepping your game run a few mock combats using their character sheets, especially for encounters that you aren't really sure if the PC's will do well.

[dropbear8mybaby]

I don't know about a copy at the table, but I definitely find things a bit easier having a copy at home when I'm working on creating the upcoming content and therefore knowing the party's strengths and weaknesses. I try not to tailor things too much to the PC's but at the same time I want the players to become invested in the story so that requires knowing the PC's.

For instance, I don't do alignment unless it matters and so I asked the player what they thought their alignment was because I wanted to get a read on how that played into her actions in-game, what the thought processes were behind them, etc. so that I could make a determination as to what her character's actual alignment would be. It mattered because the story elements had come together in such a way that there was an opportunity to introduce the possibility of her character searching for a moonblade, which is a very powerful item that only attunes to neutral good half-elves or elves.

Turned out that we were actually on the same page. I'd determined, based on everything up until that point, that her character would actually be neutral good and later on, without me actually saying anything and before she knew anything about the moonblade, she also thought her character would be neutral good.

So that helped a lot. Same with also introducing powerful cursed items. I know that the party bard can deal with them, as soon as they're known to be cursed. If I didn't know that, the very next encounter could be a TPK. I'm not against TPK's, and I'm not against doing things that the PC's can't handle, but it's nice to know that they'll at least have the facility to handle it.

So required? No. Helpful? Definitely.

Also, I've recently started using Hero Lab. It's not perfect, it's a little dated, and the Community Pack provides 90% of the usability of it which is both a good and a bad thing, but being able to have a portfolio with everyone's characters in it, has been such a godsend I wish I'd done it a lot sooner.

[Milo v3]

I have a spreadsheet that has my players saves, perception, and knowledge stats.