Why I hate many class names.

[TheFurith]

There are certain class names that when used in game I cannot help but roll my eyes. They're class names that should be adjusted based on what one actually does. Or just completely done away with in game. For instance.

Fighter. Unless you actually are a professional fighter like in a cage, pit, or otherwise you probably would be called something else. If nothing applies, try your name.

Rogue I have never in my life heard the word rogue used to describe a person. Never. It's solely a thing of fiction and nobody would walk around calling them self it. Especially considering the reputation.

Ranger How does one range exactly? No. Try again.

Barbarian Call a man a barbarian and he's probably just going to punch you in the mouth. That's an insult, not what one calls them self.


Now for a few out there ones.

Dread Necromancer Necromancer works perfectly fine. Besides, what's so "dread" about it anyway?

Swiftblade Cast slow on this man and then ask him what he is again. Seriously.

Spellsword As it is, that's fine. But what if he's a SpellGreathornMinotaurHammer as per the variations in name Spellsword mentions? How about a Spellflail? Surely that guy sounds like he's going to burn down the town and chaotic magic display. Like a fireworks display gone wrong.

Anti-Paladin Nobody is going to define them self as nothing more than the antithesis of something else. That doesn't make sense. It's still a paladin, just not a very nice one.

This could be a long list. So I am going to stop. But seriously, I do not like a lot of class names in my games. It's as bad as being an "adventurer"....

The point is IN CHARACTER. Not why they class is called what it was. Or it's mechanics. Or what real world analog almost sort of by not really resembles something that has to do with the game. Please don't miss the point. Or do, I mean, everyone else did. Why not right? Words.

[tensai_oni]

Most classes aren't an IC concept, just an OOC name for what your character does.

No one would ICly go "I am a fighter" to describe what is their profession. Someone could go "I'm a paladin" because paladins are an IC organisation, with codes of conduct, orders, and so on. But not fighter. Instead the character would go "I'm a guard/mercenary/bounty hunter/whatever they do for a living". Likewise, a barbarian would call themselves a strong warrior of their tribe or something like that.

Rogue and ranger are RL words. Just because you never heard them used outside of fiction doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Amaril]

Something tells me you might be joking about at least some of them, but I'll tender my opinions anyway

Fighter. I see this as less a description of your job (what you do for a living) and more of your tactical role in a party. You're the guy who fights; that's your thing. Anyone else who participates in combat is backing you up. The problem, rather, is that the old-school assumption of the fighter being the only one expected to fight regularly (from back in the XP-for-gold days of exploration and treasure-hunting being the core engagements of the game) no longer holds up in current editions. Also, the core classes in general don't all follow the same logic for where their names come from--a fighter is a description of one's tactical role, but by that logic, a rogue would more appropriately be called something like "security specialist", "scout", or "negotiator", and so on.

Rogue. Yeah, this one's a little weird. Other people would probably call them a rogue as an insult or, at best, affectionately, but anyone who introduces themselves as such is not only weird, but bad at their job (part of being a rogue is that no one knows you're a rogue, in most cases).

Ranger. Like oni said, this is a word. I believe it means someone who travels far and widely (as in "to range all across the land"). Park rangers and army rangers both exist in real life. Again, the only problem is that it doesn't conform to a uniform system of naming logic.

Barbarian. Same kind of thing as the rogue--other people would totally call them that, but they'd never use it for themselves. I'd go with berserker, since that can be an actual term for a recognized social role and occupation.

As for the others, yeah, the names are gonna get weird when they start having to come up with fifteen different ones for a sneaky mage, or a brawny healer. The term "adventurer" is, I think, mostly a holdover from Tolkien (really just The Hobbit, far as I know). I usually go with mercenary, treasure-hunter, or something more appropriate to what they typically do, specifically.

[RedWarlock]

Ranger is a real job position, like a Forest Ranger, US army ranger, etc. Same general concept.

Dread Necromancer is because the term 'Necromancer' in 3e was taken by the Necromancer subclass of Wizard (alongside Conjurer, Evoker, Transmuter, etc.).

As for Spellblade/Spellsword/Duskblade/etc, etc, we don't have a good single-word term for one who combines (non-divine) magic and martial prowess. This is why the term 'Gish' is so popular, because it was a D&D-created term from the Githyanki culture for one who used both.

[TheFurith]

Most classes aren't an IC concept, just an OOC name for what your character does.

That's exactly it. But I've never seen a game where some random person isn't referred to by their ridiculous class name at least once.

Rogue and ranger are RL words. Just because you never heard them used outside of fiction doesn't mean they don't exist.

Never said Ranger wasn't a word. I simply asked how one does "range". That's not an applicable verb. I've seen it used plenty, just for military and police purposes. Never for what RPG's make them out to be.

[EvilCookie]

While ranger could be a profession, "rogue" is generally an adjective used to describe someone who is not part of something
E.g. rogue mercenary, rogue paladin, rogue mathematician (that guy that writes / instead of a normal fraction)

While "rogue" makes some sense if you consider the class abilities (sleight of hand, backstabbing, lying, sucking in combat). Those are abilities of an outlaw (a rogue member of society) and while it would make more sense to name a class Assassin, Politician or Thief (cutpurse), it is much simpler to name it Rogue than "DishonestBackstabbySneakyMan"

[TheFurith]

Ranger is a real job position, like a Forest Ranger, US army ranger, etc. Same general concept.

Dread Necromancer is because the term 'Necromancer' in 3e was taken by the Necromancer subclass of Wizard (alongside Conjurer, Evoker, Transmuter, etc.).

As for Spellblade/Spellsword/Duskblade/etc, etc, we don't have a good single-word term for one who combines (non-divine) magic and martial prowess. This is why the term 'Gish' is so popular, because it was a D&D-created term from the Githyanki culture for one who used both.

How does game editions and popular terms affect anything in character?

I understand why these things have dumb names. In the end they just ran out of names. That's fine. But in the game it's self it's entirely out of place.

[hamishspence]

Never said Ranger wasn't a word. I simply asked how one does "range". That's not an applicable verb. I've seen it used plenty, just for military and police purposes. Never for what RPG's make them out to be.

I think Aragorn was the prototype - his role (prior to the War of the Ring) being - patrol the wilderness outside the Shire, keeping outside threats from harming it.

[Slipperychicken]

The class names aren't supposed to be professions or even what characters call themselves, and in the case of D&D they're meant to apply across a broad range of settings and personality types. That's one thing that background options can help with, is helping players players to nail down an identity beyond the classes they picked.


As for fighters, a lot of people IRL are referred to as such. I hear soldiers, rebels, and militia called fighters pretty frequently. In the US, officials will sometimes call soldiers "warfighters", which to their credit is a concise and explanatory name. Others might call themselves fighters to communicate that they have some measure of personal strength or resilience in the face of adversity.

[Berenger]

Swiftblade Cast slow on this man and then ask him what he is again. Seriously.

"Aaaaaa Sswwiiiiiiffttbbllaaaaaaddeeeeee."

[nyjastul69]

There are certain class names that when used in game I cannot help but roll my eyes. They're class names that should be adjusted based on what one actually does. Or just completely done away with in game. For instance.

Fighter. Unless you actually are a professional fighter like in a cage, pit, or otherwise you probably would be called something else. If nothing applies, try your name.

Rogue I have never in my life heard the word rogue used to describe a person. Never. It's solely a thing of fiction and nobody would walk around calling them self it. Especially considering the reputation.

Ranger How does one range exactly? No. Try again.

Barbarian Call a man a barbarian and he's probably just going to punch you in the mouth. That's an insult, not what one calls them self.


Now for a few out there ones.

Dread Necromancer Necromancer works perfectly fine. Besides, what's so "dread" about it anyway?

Swiftblade Cast slow on this man and then ask him what he is again. Seriously.

Spellsword As it is, that's fine. But what if he's a SpellGreathornMinotaurHammer as per the variations in name Spellsword mentions? How about a Spellflail? Surely that guy sounds like he's going to burn down the town and chaotic magic display. Like a fireworks display gone wrong.

Anti-Paladin Nobody is going to define them self as nothing more than the antithesis of something else. That doesn't make sense. It's still a paladin, just not a very nice one.

This could be a long list. So I am going to stop. But seriously, I do not like a lot of class names in my games. It's as bad as being an "adventurer"....

The point is IN CHARACTER. Not why they class is called what it was. Or it's mechanics. Or what real world analog almost sort of by not really resembles something that has to do with the game. Please don't miss the point.

How do your arbitrary choices about class names differ from any other arbitrary choices? Warrior, Fighter, Battler, Fighting Man, is there really any difference? I can't truly see one.

[falloutimperial]

I would echo the idea that classes don't really need to be in-character concepts.

But, I mean, you can totally range. It's a verb. Ranger range. They move about-- they range. It's a thing people do. If they're rangers.

[mikeejimbo]

As for fighters, a lot of people IRL are referred to as such. I hear soldiers, rebels, and militia called fighters pretty frequently. In the US, officials will sometimes call soldiers "warfighters", which to their credit is a concise and explanatory name. Others might call themselves fighters to communicate that they have some measure of personal strength or resilience in the face of adversity.

I think "warfighter" encompasses more than just soldiers, but pretty much every military member in an area of engagement.

[Cluedrew]

Barbarian Call a man a barbarian and he's probably just going to punch you in the mouth. That's an insult, not what one calls them self.

I'm a barbarian, in that I was not born in Rome.

Jokes about old meanings of word aside, I could see someone from the wild holding the title barbarian close to them in pride. Unlike those soft city folk who are too clever for their own good and can't feed themselves without the help of a tavern.

[TheFurith]

How do your arbitrary choices about class names differ from any other arbitrary choices? Warrior, Fighter, Battler, Fighting Man, is there really any difference? I can't truly see one.

As a class or an in character concept? Because if you're talking about the name of the class you've missed the point.

If you're talking about as a character concept what's the difference between a soldier, a mercenary, and some guy with a sword killing random villagers and taking their stuff just because they can? Those are not the same thing and all can be a "fighter".

[Khi'Khi]

I'm a barbarian, in that I was not born in Rome.

.

Or Athens for that matter! The ancient Greek word "barbaros," from whence we get "barbarian," was the word for any sort of non-Greek foreigner. It was a derogatory term that mocked the way foreign languages sounded to the Greeks. (they thought the languages of the surrounding peoples sounded like "bar-bar-bar,")

And now you know

[Slipperychicken]

I think "warfighter" encompasses more than just soldiers, but pretty much every military member in an area of engagement.

I think you're right.

[Fri]

Never said Ranger wasn't a word. I simply asked how one does "range". That's not an applicable verb. I've seen it used plenty, just for military and police purposes. Never for what RPG's make them out to be.

According to google

3.
(of a person or animal) travel or wander over a wide area.
"patrols ranged thousands of miles deep into enemy territory"
synonyms: roam, rove, traverse, travel, journey, wander, drift, ramble, meander, stroll, traipse, walk, hike, trek
"they ranged over the sprawling hills"

I assume this is what rangers refer to.

[EvilCookie]

Or Athens for that matter! The ancient Greek word "barbaros," from whence we get "barbarian," was the word for any sort of non-Greek foreigner. It was a derogatory term that mocked the way foreign languages sounded to the Greeks. (they thought the languages of the surrounding peoples sounded like "bar-bar-bar"

Actually the name comes from the latin word for beard "barba, barbae f." for it was a time before rome adopted the greek "the bigger your beard the bigger your phylosophical knowledge", and the intruders were simply "bearded men"

[Fri]

Actually the name comes from the latin word for beard "barba, barbae f." for it was a time before rome adopted the greek "the bigger your beard the bigger your phylosophical knowledge", and the intruders were simply "bearded men"

Oh man, this is true.

I only found out a while back that philosopher beard, is an actual, real concept back then. You can't be a good philosopher without appropriately awesome beard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beard#...r.27s_beard.22

[raygun goth]

Fighter. Unless you actually are a professional fighter like in a cage, pit, or otherwise you probably would be called something else. If nothing applies, try your name.

The original was "Fighting Man." They changed it to "fighter" when they realized girls could also be one.

Rogue

I have never in my life heard the word rogue used to describe a person. Never. It's solely a thing of fiction and nobody would walk around calling them self it. Especially considering the reputation.

You don't live in the 1600s. It was perfectly acceptable during the time to refer to oneself as a "rogue" when in a playful or mischievious context.

Ranger

How does one range exactly? No. Try again.

"Ranging" is what you do when you're overseeing a tract of land. "Rangers" are people who work the "range" doing "range-work."

Barbarian

Call a man a barbarian and he's probably just going to punch you in the mouth. That's an insult, not what one calls them self.

I have always had a problem with this word and this class, but the term comes from the Robert E. Howard, who described "mighty thewed barbarians" who came from his mysterious north lands.

Now for a few out there ones.

Dread Necromancer Necromancer works perfectly fine. Besides, what's so "dread" about it anyway?

Necromancer and Dread Nekomancer were already taken. Someone objected to being called "crazy cat lady."

Swiftblade

Cast slow on this man and then ask him what he is again. Seriously.

You can't. That's literally its class feature. "You can't cast slow on me."

Spellsword

As it is, that's fine. But what if he's a SpellGreathornMinotaurHammer as per the variations in name Spellsword mentions? How about a Spellflail? Surely that guy sounds like he's going to burn down the town and chaotic magic display. Like a fireworks display gone wrong.

Yes, but this isn't about "spellflails," it's about "spellswords." Would you prefer "fightmage?" This one's at least as old as Elder Scrolls II, which makes it damn near venerable.

Anti-Paladin

Nobody is going to define them self as nothing more than the antithesis of something else. That doesn't make sense. It's still a paladin, just not a very nice one.

"Paladin" itself is kinda dicey - historically it refers to the peers of Charlemagne, which were not a very paladin-y group of people at all. The "anti-" prefix has a long history in the RPG industry, which, of course, does not protect it from criticism. The much funnier (to me) "blackguard" has its origins as a derogatory epithet used to describe scullery personnel in the army.

This could be a long list. So I am going to stop. But seriously, I do not like a lot of class names in my games. It's as bad as being an "adventurer"....

"Adventurer" was in use as early as the 1660s to describe what D&D characters do. Before that it was "mercenary," "outlaw," or "beggar."

The point is IN CHARACTER. Not why they class is called what it was. Or it's mechanics. Or what real world analog almost sort of by not really resembles something that has to do with the game. Please don't miss the point.

Hey, in the old days, what we're calling rogue now was "thief," and most tables I've been through since then have had training rules - you think using these names is bad? Imagine having to find a thief of higher level than you to train you when you thought you needed a new level, that person is always higher rank than you in the thief's guild (there's only one and it's global), and the DM is being 100% serious.

Some classes can describe jobs - Wizard, for example. There's not a whole lot of ways to spin it, and that feels like one of the weaknesses of the class to me (but if it were up to me, the "core four" would be called the Tallfella, Clown, Storyteller, and Magician, and the game would be very different).

[nyjastul69]

As a class or an in character concept? Because if you're talking about the name of the class you've missed the point.

If you're talking about as a character concept what's the difference between a soldier, a mercenary, and some guy with a sword killing random villagers and taking their stuff just because they can? Those are not the sake thing and all can be a "fighter".

Huh? I'm a stupid person. Can you simplify your argument for me?

[Kitten Champion]

I like the term Rogue, it indicates an archetype which is pretty expansive for narrative purposes. Though I suppose it has the issue of "rogue" being too general and could equally describe any character with a chaotic disposition - a roguish fighter, wizard, etc.

Still, preference for it over being called the Thief, which has the same problem as Barbarian that it biases people by narrowing the class concept too forcefully in people's minds. I would prefer the term Berserker over Barbarian - while that might be in part due to the influence of the Nasuverse - mostly it's an apt description of their combat style and how it differs from other classes without really limiting the character's origin to somewhere outside the civilized world in its wording. While you can just ignore Barbarian as a context for a Barbarian-class character - as has been said none of these terms need apply in-universe - but it's still something which can cause a degree of unease particularly when you're starting out.

I also find Monks are pretty weird conceptually, just all around. Given D&D is mostly Western fantasy where Shaolin monasteries or their contextual equivalents are - while tempering my assertion with the fact that this is all in the infinite realm of the imagination - somewhat out-of-context. I have no real alternative for it, however.

[Enixon]

I could see someone from the wild holding the title barbarian close to them in pride. Unlike those soft city folk who are too clever for their own good and can't feed themselves without the help of a tavern.

I can't seem to find it off hand, searching "Conan quotes" floods the results with the "What is best in life?" one , but I'm fairly certain Conan has done that very thing.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

"Paladin" itself is kinda dicey - historically it refers to the peers of Charlemagne, which were not a very paladin-y group of people at all. The "anti-" prefix has a long history in the RPG industry, which, of course, does not protect it from criticism. The much funnier (to me) "blackguard" has its origins as a derogatory epithet used to describe scullery personnel in the army.

Huh? The (essentially mythical) Paladins of Charlemagne are exactly the sort of people you'd expect a D&D Paladin to be based on. Works like the Matter of France and the Song of Roland have them as heroic knights (at least by contemporary standards of heroism, which are close enough to D&D standards of heroism if you swap out Saracen for Orc). And their historical counterparts were simply nobles and commanders under a great monarch, which seems a fairly fair thing for a Paladin to be.

And while Blackguard does have the origin you describe, it normally means a dishonourable or contemptible man, and in the 18th century came to refer to a scoundrel or villain, which seems a fai enough description for the D&D character, though why it should refer specifically to fallen Paladins is indeed questionable.

[2D8HP]

Those are abilities of an outlaw (a rogue member of society) and while it would make more sense to name a class Assassin, Politician or Thief (cutpurse), it is much simpler to name it Rogue than "DishonestBackstabbySneakyMan"

Now I'm going to try and fit "DishonestBackstabbySneakyMan" on my character sheet!

This is why the term 'Gish' is so popular, because it was a D&D-created term from the Githyanki culture for one who used both.

I've been wondering what "Gish" meant.
Thanks!
(I believe in "Ye olden times", "Elf" ment much the same thing)

[ComradeBear]

Ranger How does one range exactly? No. Try again.

By travelling/wandering. Range is also verb with many meanings, including:
"a : to roam at large or freely
b : to move over an area so as to explore it"

So it turns out a Ranger does, in fact, range.

[Cosi]

Fighter. Unless you actually are a professional fighter like in a cage, pit, or otherwise you probably would be called something else. If nothing applies, try your name.

That's not really the issue with the Fighter. The issue with the Fighter is that he only has one verb: fight. When the situation calls for tracking, navigation, infiltration, trade, deception, persuasion, investigation, or construction, there's nothing for a "Fighter" to do. Compare that to a Wizard, who has a noun (magic) which he can use to do any verb. He can track someone with magic, use magic to infiltrate, or construct something with magic. He can even fight with magic.

Rogue I have never in my life heard the word rogue used to describe a person. Never. It's solely a thing of fiction and nobody would walk around calling them self it. Especially considering the reputation.

Fortunately, D&D is a work of fiction. Also, Rogue is great because it's detailed enough to instantly explain what the character is (a broadly Han Solo-ish type), without being so detailed as to pidgeonhole the character.

Ranger How does one range exactly? No. Try again.

The class is called "Ranger" because Aragorn was a called a ranger and early D&D was 100% a Tolkien riff. This one is pretty good, and a lot of the alternatives are worse. Seriously, what else are you calling this guy? Woodsman doesn't work, because there are desert Rangers and mountain Rangers. Hunter might work, but it moves your game closer to WoW clone status.

Also, there are actual people who are called "Ranger" and do things broadly similar to what you'd expect a D&D Ranger to do.

Barbarian Call a man a barbarian and he's probably just going to punch you in the mouth. That's an insult, not what one calls them self.

The class is called "Barbarian" because Conan was a Barbarian. It's a fine name, though there are arguments for using Berserker instead.

Dread Necromancer Necromancer works perfectly fine. Besides, what's so "dread" about it anyway?

As has been pointed out, 3.5 already had a Necromancer (the Wizard who specializes in Necromancy). Also, dread is a pretty cool adjective. Would you be as impressed by Pirate Roberts?

Swiftblade Cast slow on this man and then ask him what he is again. Seriously.

Is a Fighter not a Fighter while not actively fighting?

Spellsword As it is, that's fine. But what if he's a SpellGreathornMinotaurHammer as per the variations in name Spellsword mentions? How about a Spellflail? Surely that guy sounds like he's going to burn down the town and chaotic magic display. Like a fireworks display gone wrong.

Yes, having weapons in class names is dumb (unless the class is a weapon specialist, but that is also dumb).

Anti-Paladin Nobody is going to define them self as nothing more than the antithesis of something else. That doesn't make sense. It's still a paladin, just not a very nice one.

I dunno, there were people who called themselves anti-popes (admittedly, it didn't have the same relative meaning as Anti-Paladin).

[quinron]

I've been wondering what "Gish" meant.
Thanks!
(I believe in "Ye olden times", "Elf" ment much the same thing)

I've always been frustrated by the term "gish" being considered a Githyanki term. I won't deny that it is one in-game, but it seems evident to me that "gish" is derived from "gestalt" - it's a class whose physical and magical capabilities combine to form something more significant than just "fighter/wizard."

[D+1]

You read a book or play a game set in a particular fictional world. A character calls himself a "Landwalker". What is that? Maybe he's like a ranger and walks the land fighting the monsters and bad humanoids to keep more civilized areas safe. Maybe he's like a fighter with a traditional military background and the name is used generically in the setting as a reference to military needing to march long distances. Maybe he's like a magic-user and the "land" that he walks is the same one that everyone does, but being a magic-user he sees and feels magic that others don't and so he walks a different "land" than they.

What does it matter the NAME of the class. You can NAME the class anything. Why call someone a magic-user rather than a wizard? Maybe for no better reason than back in the day they wanted to use "wizard" as a level title (and used up a lot of other potential class names as level titles) so they needed something else to name the class. Why cleric and not priest? Thief rather than rogue or criminal or blurgelfleimer? What the player in the chair uses as the class name for their character need not be the word that the character in the game world actually uses to describe his "career" or job. That seemed to actually have been the purpose of level titles back in the day - to have a word that the PC could and would use IN GAME that not only indicates his profession but also makes clear how advanced he is within that profession.

Maybe that's what you really want. As it is the names of the various classes are not exactly brimming over with relevance and meaning. It's just a name, often now used by tradition as much as anything else, that is used for generic reference. If it bothers you, just change it. Many games do. 2E changed them from what 1E had. Thief became rogue as a suggestion that the job of the class was not necessarily to STEAL everything. Magic-user did indeed become wizard because level titles were dropped from the game and it could then be used without creating confusion. Clerics became priests, again since the level title was no longer in use, but also because referring to religious leaders as "clerics" is somewhat archaic and less readily understood by those new to the game. Rather than have them wonder how religion has anything to do with typing and filing papers it was changed. Fighter became warrior which seems more descriptive of a general class.

Really don't understand your objection to ranger, however. Even without having been initially based directly on Aragorn from LotR, who was one of the Rangers protecting the northern portions of Middle Earth (including the Shire) from all the bad things beyond their borders, there's still US Forest Service Rangers, US Army Rangers, etc. To "range" IS a verb but also "range" a PLACE. Home, home on the range... A ranger is one who ranges (i.e., wanders, roams) a forest or "a range" (i.e., an area, especially one where livestock graze or referring to the extents that certain plants or animals can be found.

But again, if Ranger just doesn't mean to you what you think it should for the class, then give it a name exclusive to your campaign world. Players might even enjoy the unique touch.