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    Default Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    The hexblade is a class that has historically under performed, especially when compared to its sister class, the duskblade. With this "rework", I'm not looking to make it compete with the duskblade, but bring it closer in line and give it a different purpose. Enjoy!

    Hexblade

    "If the devil isn't trying to trip you up, it's because he's already got you."
    Baylor Barbee

    Hunters of the arcane, eldritch warriors, and an omen of bad luck, hexblades combine powerful hexes and capable martial prowess to overcome obstacles and devastate their foes.

    Hit Die
    d8

    Class Skills
    The hexblade's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

    Skill Points at Each Additional Level
    4 + Int modifier.

    Table: The Hexblade Spells per Day
    Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Class Features 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
    1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Armored Mage (Light), Hexblade’s Curse 3 2 - - - -
    2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Mage Slayer 4 3 - - - -
    3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Advanced Learning, Summon Familiar 5 4 - - - -
    4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Hex 6 5 - - - -
    5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Mettle 6 6 2 - - -
    6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Advanced Learning 6 6 3 - - -
    7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Greater Hexblade's Curse 6 6 4 - - -
    8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Hex 6 6 5 - - -
    9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Antimagic Presence 6 6 6 2 - -
    10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Magic Eater 6 6 6 3 - -
    11th +11/+6/+1 +8 +3 +8 Advanced Learning 6 6 6 4 - -
    12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Hex, Major Hex 6 6 6 5 - -
    13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Superior Hexblade's Curse 6 6 6 6 2 -
    14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Aura of Unluck 6 6 6 6 3 -
    15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Eldritch Mind 6 6 6 6 4 -
    16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Advanced Learning, Hex 6 6 6 6 5 -
    17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Hexing Retaliation 6 6 6 6 6 2
    18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Dire Hexblade's Curse 6 6 6 6 6 3
    19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Eldritch Body 6 6 6 6 6 5
    20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Hex, Grand Hex, Vexing Existence 6 6 6 6 6 6

    Class Features
    All the following are class features of the hexblade base class.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
    A hexblade is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor, and with light shields.

    Spells:
    You cast arcane spells, which are drawn from the hexblade spell list (See Below). You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time.

    To learn or cast a spell, you must have an Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Cha 10 for 0-level spells, Cha 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against your spell is 10 + the spell level + your Cha modifier.

    You can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Your base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Hexblade. In addition, you receive bonus spells per day if you have a high Charisma score. A hexblade's caster level is equal to his hexblade class level.

    Spells Known:
    Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a hexblade need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. For example, at 1st level, the hexblade Kaine can cast three 1st-level spells per day — Two for being 1st level (see Table: The Hexblade), plus one thanks to his Charisma score of 15.

    Upon reaching 5th level, and at every odd-numbered hexblade level after that (7th, 9th, and so on), a hexblade can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the hexblade "loses" the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell's level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged.

    Table: Spells Known
    Level 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
    1st 4 1 - - - -
    2nd 5 2 - - - -
    3rd 5 2 - - - -
    4th 6 3 - - - -
    5th 6 3 1 - - -
    6th 7 4 2 - - -
    7th 7 4 2 - - -
    8th 8 4 3 - - -
    9th 8 4 3 1 - -
    10th 9 4 4 2 - -
    11th 9 4 4 2 - -
    12th 9 4 4 3 - -
    13th 9 4 4 3 1 -
    14th 9 4 4 4 2 -
    15th 9 4 4 4 2 -
    16th 9 4 4 4 3 -
    17th 9 4 4 4 3 1
    18th 9 4 4 4 4 2
    19th 9 4 4 4 4 3
    20th 9 4 4 4 4 4

    Armored Mage (Ex):
    Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster's gestures, which can cause spells to fail if those spells have a somatic component. A hexblade's limited focus and specialized training, however, allows you to avoid arcane spell failure so long as you stick to light armor and light shields. This training does not extend to medium or heavy armors, nor to heavy shields. This ability does not apply to spells gained from a different spellcasting class.

    Hexblade's Curse (Su):
    A number of times per day equal to three plus his charisma bonus, as a swift action, a hexblade can unleash a curse upon a foe. The target must be visible to the hexblade and within 60 feet. The target of a hexblade's curse takes a -2 penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls for 1 hour thereafter. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 hexblade's class level + hexblade's Cha modifier) negates the effect.

    Multiple hexblade's curses don't stack, and any foe that successfully resists the effect cannot be affected again by the same hexblade's curse for 24 hours.

    Any effect that removes or dispels a curse eliminates the effect of a hexblade's curse.

    A hexblade can utter only one hexblade's curse per round, even if he gets multiple curses from a high charisma score.

    Mage Slayer (Ex):
    At 2nd level, a hexblade has become adept at fighting spellcasters. Any spellcaster you threaten may not cast defensively (they automatically fail their Concentration checks to do so), but they are aware that they cannot cast defensively.

    Advanced Learning (Ex):
    At 3rd, 6th, 11th, and 16th level, a hexblade can add a new spell to his list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be a sorcerer spell of the illusion or abjuration school, and of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell the hexblade already knows. Once a new spell is selected, it is forever added to that hexblade's spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the hexblade's list. This spell does not count against a hexblade's spells known.

    Summon Familiar (Ex):
    At 3rd level, a hexblade can obtain a familiar. Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. A familiar is a magical beast that resembles a small animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.

    The hexblade chooses the kind of familiar he gets. As the hexblade advances in level, his familiar also increases in power. Treat the hexblade as a sorcerer of three levels lower for determining the familiar's powers and abilities.

    If the familiar dies or is dismissed by the hexblade, the latter must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means he loses 200 experience points per hexblade level; success reduces the loss to one-half that amount. However, a hexblade's experience point total can never go below 0 as the result of a familiar's demise or dismissal. A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, but it does not lose a level or a point of Constitution when this happy event occurs.

    A character with more than one class that grants a familiar may have only one familiar at a time.

    Hex (Sp):
    Like witches, Hexblades learn a number of magic tricks, called hexes, that grant them powers or weaken foes. At 4th level, a hexblade gains one hex of his choice. She gains an additional hex every four levels attained after 4th level, as noted on Table: The Hexblade. A hexblade cannot select an individual hex more than once.

    Unless otherwise noted, hexes are at-will abilities and using a hex is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The save to resist a hex is equal to 10 + 1/2 the hexblade's level + the hexblade's Charisma modifier.

    Mettle (Ex):
    At 5th level and higher, a hexblade can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping hexblade does not gain the benefit of mettle.

    Greater Hexblade's Curse (Su):
    When a hexblade attains 7th level, the penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls incurred by a target of the hexblade's curse becomes -4 instead of -2.

    Antimagic Presence (Su)
    At 9th level, a hexblade radiates an aura of magic supression out to 30ft. All spells cast within this aura have a 20% chance to fail. If a spell fails, the spell slot is still used and the spell cannot be recovered. A hexblade can choose a number of creatures equal to his Charisma bonus to be immune to this aura. A hexblade is always immune to his own aura. Designating individuals to be immune to Antimagic Presence is a swift action.

    This ability extends to 60 feet at 14th level and 120 feet at 19th level.

    Magic Eater (Su):
    At 10th level, a hexblade gains spell resistance 10 + his class level. Any spell that targets the hexblade and fails to overcome the hexblade's spell resistance is consumed by the hexblade, healing the hexblade for 1d4 hit points per level of the spell that was consumed.

    Major Hex (Sp):
    Starting at 12th level, and every four levels thereafter, a hexblade can choose one of the witch's major hexes whenever the hexblade could select a new hex.

    Superior Hexblade's Curse (Su):
    When a hexblade attains 13th level, the penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls incurred by a target of the hexblade's curse becomes -6 instead of -4.

    Aura of Unluck (Su):
    At 14th level, a hexblade drains the luck of anyone that would attack him. Any melee or ranged attack made against the hexblade while aura of unluck is active has a 20% miss chance. A hexblade can deactivate and reactivate this aura as a swift action.

    This miss chance improves to 40% at level 19.

    Eldritch Mind (Su):
    At 15th level, a hexblade becomes immune to all Mind-Affecting effects. Whenever you are subject to a Mind-Affecting spell (regardless of whether the spell is harmful or beneficial to you), the spellcaster must make a Will saving throw against a DC of 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Charisma bonus or take 2d6 points of damage.

    Hexing Retaliation (Ex):
    At 17th level, if a hexblade takes hit point damage from a spell, he may cast a hex at the caster that damaged him as a free action.

    Dire Hexblade's Curse (Su):
    When a hexblade attains 18th level, the penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls incurred by a target of the hexblade's curse becomes -8 instead of -6.

    Eldritch Body (Ex):
    At 19th level, a hexblade has transcended mortality and become an immortal hunter of the arcane. A hexblade no longer ages and cannot be aged magically. Hexblades do not gain bonuses or accrue penalties for old age.

    Grand Hex (Sp):
    At 20th level, a hexblade can choose one of the following grand hexes whenever the hexblade could select a new hex.

    Vexing Existence (Ex):
    At 20th level, a hexblade becomes an inevitable and untraceable force. A hexblade is immune to all scrying and divination effects. Divination effects which specifically target them fail completely, other divination effects simply do not reveal information about the hexblade.

    For example: a Legend Lore spell cast to learn about the hexblade fails, one cast to learn about his companion Alice the Blue Sorceress conveniently fails to mention the hexblade; a detect magic spell which includes the hexblade in its area fails to detect auras on the hexblade or their items, and similar spells never return auras on the hexblade; and a scrying spell cast on another creature does not show the hexblade treating them as invisible and silent (though if they affect another object its movement is shown). This does not have any effect on See Invisibility, True Seeing, or spells or effects which copy them.

    Hexblade Spell List:
    Spoiler: 0th Level
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    Candlelight (Ghostwalk)
    Launch Bolt (Spell Compendium)
    Launch Item (Spell Compendium)
    Light Evocation (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Preserve Organ (Book of Vile Darkness)
    Prestidigitation (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Repair Minor Damage Transmutation (Spell Compendium)
    Resistance (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Stick (Spell Compendium)
    Touch of Fatigue (Player's Handbook v.3.5)

    Spoiler: 1st Level
    Show

    Armor Lock (Complete Scoundrel)
    Augment Familiar (Complete Warrior)
    Cause Fear (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Charm Person (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Bloodletting (Complete Mage)
    Catsfeet (Complete Mage)
    Death's Call (Complete Mage)
    Detect Weaponry (CityScape)
    Disguise Self (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Distract Assailant (Complete Adventurer)
    Ebon Eyes (Spell Compendium)
    Erase (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Feather Fall (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Grease (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Karmic Aura (Complete Mage)
    Mage Burr (Complete Scoundrel)
    Peacebond (CityScape)
    Phantom Threat (Complete Warrior)
    Primal Hunter (Dragon Magic)
    Reaving Aura (Complete Mage)
    Sticky Floor (Races of the Dragon)
    True Strike (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Ventriloquism (Player's Handbook v.3.5)

    Spoiler: 2nd Level
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    Adoration of the Frightful (Dragon magic)
    Animate Weapon (Complete Mage)
    Arcane Turmoil (Complete Mage)
    Bothersome Babble (Complete Mage)
    Crisis of Confidence (Heroes of Battle)
    Darkness (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Divest Essentia (Magic of Incarnum)
    Karmic Backlash (Complete Mage)
    Knock (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Magical Backlash (Drow of the Underdark)
    Primal Instinct (Dragon Magic)
    Ray of Stupidity (Spell Compendium)
    Shadow Double Illusion (Drow of the Underdark)
    Silence (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Soul Blight Necromancy (Magic of Incarnum)
    Suppress Magic (Magic of Incarnum)
    Swift Ready (The Forge of War)

    Spoiler: 3rd Level
    Show

    Arcane Sight (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Blacklight (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Control Darkness and Shadow (Champions of Ruin)
    Dispel Magic (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Fracturing Weapon (The Forge of War)
    Haste (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Hood of the Cobra (Complete Mage)
    Hound of Doom (Complete Warrior)
    Nightmare Terrain (Complete Mage)
    Phantasmal Strangler (Complete Mage)
    Primal Senses (Dragon Magic)
    Rend Essentia (Magic of Incarnum)
    Shadow Binding (Complete Arcane)
    Suggestion (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Trance of the Verdant Domain (Dragon Magic)
    Tremorsense (Spell Compendium)
    Unbind Chakra (Magic of Incarnum)

    Spoiler: 4th Level
    Show

    Armor of Darkness (Spell Compendium)
    Balor Nimbus (Planar Handbook)
    Bite of the Werewolf (Spell Compendium)
    Cursed Blade (Complete Warrior)
    Deeper Darkness (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Early Twilight (Heroes of Battle)
    Fear Necromancy (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Finger of Agony (Complete Mage)
    Horrid Sickness (Complete Mage)
    Karmic Retribution (Complete Mage)
    Phantasmal Killer (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Primal Speed (Dragon Magic)
    Remove Curse (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Spell Theft Abjuration (Complete Scoundrel)
    Stoneskin (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Suppress Legacy (Weapons of Legacy)
    Unseen Strike (Complete Mage)

    Spoiler: 5th Level
    Show

    Charm Person, Mass (Races of Destiny)
    Dancing Blade (Player's Handbook II)
    Dimension Jumper (Complete Mage)
    Dismissal (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Dispel Magic, Greater (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Dominate Person (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Etherealness, Swift (Player's Handbook II)
    Hold Monster (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Ironguard, Lesser (Spell Compendium)
    Phantasmal Thief (Spell Compendium)
    Shadow Form (Complete Adventurer)
    Slashing Dispel (Player's Handbook II)
    Superior Resistance (Savage Species)
    Teleport (Player's Handbook v.3.5)
    Touch of Adamantine (Book of Exalted Deeds)
    Vulnerability (Draconomicon)
    Last edited by LoyalPaladin; 2020-03-01 at 10:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    I like this.

    Some points:

    I don't like the pf hexes, but that's just me.
    The mind blank seems kinda out of place, it always seems to be that one thing people add at high levels.

    The other stuff is great!
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    I like this.
    Hooray! I saw you post about hexblades and was both excited and concerned about what you'd think about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    I don't like the pf hexes, but that's just me.
    I love witch's hexes. But I also love the witch. I figured that a hexblade would probably benefit from them, but one of the major reasons I thought to add them was Misfortune. Bad luck is something I think should be core to the hexblade and they didn't really accomplish that well when they made it...

    Out of curiosity, what would you have given them in place of hexes? Just different hexes that weren't the PF version?

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    The mind blank seems kinda out of place, it always seems to be that one thing people add at high levels.
    I'll level with you. I hate giving Mind Blank at higher levels, but this class is supposed to be an anti-mage. Since it comes online at the same level a Wizard can cast it, I think it fits this time around. Their whole shtick gets turned around by one good Dominate Person.

    Any other suggestions instead?

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    The other stuff is great!
    I'm so glad you think so. I was actually concerned I'd get a lot of flack for Hexing Retaliation.
    If purple is evil, bold gray is lawful good.

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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    First off, typo:
    Hex (Sp):
    Like witches, Hexblades learn a number of magic tricks, called hexes, that grant them powers or weaken foes. At 4th level, a witch gains one hex of her choice. She gains an additional 4 levels attained after 4th level, as noted on Table: Hexblade. A hexblade cannot select an individual hex more than once.
    More edited in shortly, I'm a slow typer

    ...Aaaaaand here's some more commentary:
    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I love witch's hexes. But I also love the witch. I figured that a hexblade would probably benefit from them, but one of the major reasons I thought to add them was Misfortune. Bad luck is something I think should be core to the hexblade and they didn't really accomplish that well when they made it...
    I think they're a brilliant addition, but I'm not sure all of them would be appropriate. Witch's Hut from the Grand Hexes, for example, isn't something I'd expect for a Hexblade. You may want to make a narrower list for use with this class.

    I'll level with you. I hate giving Mind Blank at higher levels, but this class is supposed to be an anti-mage. Since it comes online at the same level a Wizard can cast it, I think it fits this time around. Their whole shtick gets turned around by one good Dominate Person.

    Any other suggestions instead?
    Knowing it's meant to be an anti-caster helps. Mettle/Improved Mettle may be warranted, as may specifically anti-enchantment stuff. Maybe bump up the Fortitude or Reflex saves, too.

    Fluff-wise, the anti-mage part needs to be better incorporated. It feels like it was shoved in as filler at the moment.
    Similarly, I'd suggest you throw some more debuffs on the spell list. Higher-level spells, to be precise.

    I'm so glad you think so. I was actually concerned I'd get a lot of flack for Hexing Retaliation.
    •How would it interact with the curses being once/round?

    •An idea I had, maybe allow the hexblade to interrupt a spell that is targeting him/her (specifically. Rays/orbs, not fireball.) with the curse as an immediate action. The caster is curseded and must make a concentration check to finish the spell, or it is wasted.



    Also, T.G. Oskar's Bez-Kismet could be worth a glance-over. It's his take on the Hexblade, focusing heavily on debuffs. (He also has a paladin re-make that may be worth a read :small wink:)

    Edit 2:His paladin should be in here.
    Last edited by Libro; 2016-10-14 at 03:13 PM.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post

    Out of curiosity, what would you have given them in place of hexes? Just different hexes that weren't the PF version?


    I'll level with you. I hate giving Mind Blank at higher levels, but this class is supposed to be an anti-mage. Since it comes online at the same level a Wizard can cast it, I think it fits this time around. Their whole shtick gets turned around by one good Dominate Person.

    Any other suggestions instead?
    I see you don't have arcane resistance?

    You could add that, and then improve upon your mageslayer theme, say, casting a spell you threaten provokes (ontop of failing)
    Spell deflection x levels per day
    Gain bonus damage vs arcanists
    deflect spells that target you with a weapon like deflect arrows

    Replace mindblank with SR maybe?
    Add some kind of spellwarped feature, where if your SR works, you gain an ability?

    Also, no dark companion ACF?
    EDIT: oh and Fort should be good.
    Last edited by BelGareth; 2016-10-14 at 03:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    First off, typo:
    Woops! Fixed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    I think they're a brilliant addition, but I'm not sure all of them would be appropriate. Witch's Hut from the Grand Hexes, for example, isn't something I'd expect for a Hexblade. You may want to make a narrower list for use with this class.
    I wasn't too concerned about people picking bad hexes. You only get one Grand Hex and if someone really wants to waste it on Witch's Hut... who am I to stop them? Haha. I'd assume Fortune, Cackle, Sleep, Misfortune, etc would be the prime choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Knowing it's meant to be an anti-caster helps. Mettle/Improved Mettle may be warranted, as may specifically anti-enchantment stuff. Maybe bump up the Fortitude or Reflex saves, too.
    They get Mind Blank to deal with anything enchantment... Mettle/Improved Metal was dropped, but I might toss that back in there. I was concerned about too many class features making it unbalanced.

    You're the second person to recommend I bump saves, so I will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Fluff-wise, the anti-mage part needs to be better incorporated. It feels like it was shoved in as filler at the moment.
    Hmmm. Can you expand on that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Similarly, I'd suggest you throw some more debuffs on the spell list. Higher-level spells, to be precise.
    I wont go past 5th level spells, but what spells would you suggest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    •How would it interact with the curses being once/round?
    He can't retaliate with his Hexblade's Curse ability. He retaliates with a Hex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    •An idea I had, maybe allow the hexblade to interrupt a spell that is targeting him/her (specifically. Rays/orbs, not fireball.) with the curse as an immediate action. The caster is curseded and must make a concentration check to finish the spell, or it is wasted.
    I'm concerned it'd feel too much like a 4e class or too powerful then...

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Also, T.G. Oskar's Bez-Kismet could be worth a glance-over. It's his take on the Hexblade, focusing heavily on debuffs. (He also has a paladin re-make that may be worth a read )
    I'll look it over!

    Thanks for all the input!

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    I see you don't have arcane resistance?
    I dropped that class feature because they can now cast Superior Resistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    You could add that, and then improve upon your mageslayer theme, say, casting a spell you threaten provokes (ontop of failing)
    Doesn't this already happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Spell deflection x levels per day
    Do you have an example of this in a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Gain bonus damage vs arcanists
    I guess I automatically assumed that every Hexblade would pick up magebane weapons!

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    deflect spells that target you with a weapon like deflect arrows
    Hmmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Replace mindblank with SR maybe?
    Check out magic eater. I'm actually one of the largest opponents of SR on PC's, since it never works. But I think in this one case it will work just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Add some kind of spellwarped feature, where if your SR works, you gain an ability?
    Magic eater covers this base too.

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Also, no dark companion ACF?
    I didn't design any ACF's for this class.

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    EDIT: oh and Fort should be good.
    I was concerned that'd be too good. You think it'd be alright?
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Good fort? definitely. No class should have 1 good save.

    Hmm, you have several good points about magic eater.

    Occult slayer has a similar (or same?) ability for the spell deflection, so you could mirror/copy that.

    Ah, I misread mageslayer....why not just grant the feat of the same name, and that way, the hexblade qualifies for the other feats, perhaps add a caveat that you do not lose CL from taking them
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    I second a good Fortitude save. If this is meant to be able to be front-line, a good Fortitude is necessary.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    I second a good Fortitude save. If this is meant to be able to be front-line, a good Fortitude is necessary.
    I'll get on that. I responded to your other post above, by the way!

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Good fort? definitely. No class should have 1 good save.
    I shall make it so!

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Hmm, you have several good points about magic eater.
    I think it's better than magic eating armor, but not overly powerful. It stays relevant, though! Considering almost everything a party will face will be a higher level than them, spell resistance is almost always terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Occult slayer has a similar (or same?) ability for the spell deflection, so you could mirror/copy that.
    Oh, so like Spell Turning... hmm... I'm not sure, I don't want to overload on immediate actions and since they basically get immediate heals and they definitely get immediate actions, I feel like that might be too strong at this point. I mean, I guess they'll never be any higher than tier 3 anyways...

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Ah, I misread mageslayer....why not just grant the feat of the same name, and that way, the hexblade qualifies for the other feats, perhaps add a caveat that you do not lose CL from taking them
    I'm always apprehensive about giving feats out in a class. I've gotten flack for it on a few of my homebrew submissions from a few different users...

    Edit:
    Fortitude updated to good!
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Original post #8 above. Will be edited out momentarily to avoid double posting
    Nevermind. I'm way too slow. I actually got logged out while typing this. And this wasn't the first time I've had that happen...

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Hmmm. Can you expand on that?
    When I think of a Hexblade, I think of Curses and Hexes; depowering your enemies in a significant way. While some of the curses may debilitate a caster more than a non-caster, such as a direct debuff to caster level, stuff tailored to slaying mages feels like it comes a little out of left field. Being able to resist curses, enchantments, etc. however would fit, as they would be protected against their own effects. (like dragons and their elements)

    Basically, some good fluff is needed to tie it in.
    I wont go past 5th level spells, but what spells would you suggest?
    Besides the Bestow Curse spell, and any potential relations, I have no idea. My grasp of the many, many sourcebooks & spells in 3.5 is rather weak compared to a lot of people on the forum.

    He can't retaliate with his Hexblade's Curse ability. He retaliates with a Hex.
    ...I definitely did not read that correctly.

    I'm concerned it'd feel too much like a 4e class or too powerful then...
    Maybe as an Epic ability then? It just flew into my head, so I figured I'd share.

    I'm always apprehensive about giving feats out in a class. I've gotten flack for it on a few of my homebrew submissions from a few different users...
    It can depend heavily on the feat that's given out. A clause enabling the choice of another feat if it is already possessed may be a good idea.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Nevermind. I'm way too slow. I actually got logged out while typing this. And this wasn't the first time I've had that happen...
    At least your grammar is good! Quality over quantity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    When I think of a Hexblade, I think of Curses and Hexes; depowering your enemies in a significant way. While some of the curses may debilitate a caster more than a non-caster, such as a direct debuff to caster level, stuff tailored to slaying mages feels like it comes a little out of left field. Being able to resist curses, enchantments, etc. however would fit, as they would be protected against their own effects. (like dragons and their elements)
    I think the way this class goes about slaying mages, is by not being slain themselves. Mages encounter all kinds of problems when near a hexblade. As far as pumping out damage goes... that sounds sort of like a job for the character builder. I might be wrong there. Some good ol' power attack with a good weapon sounds like the solution to mages that can't hurt you haha. It is almost dangerous to cast spells at a Hexblade here, because you run the risk of healing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Basically, some good fluff is needed to tie it in.
    I'm a big fan of fluff! Though, it seems this forum isn't a big fan of class specific fluff. They're more a "Let me use the mechanics and build my own fluff." Usually... Hmmmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Besides the Bestow Curse spell, and any potential relations, I have no idea. My grasp of the many, many sourcebooks & spells in 3.5 is rather weak compared to a lot of people on the forum.
    It took me a long time to learn all the source books and I still end up referencing things like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    ...I definitely did not read that correctly.
    I'm guilty of this often, don't worry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Maybe as an Epic ability then? It just flew into my head, so I figured I'd share.
    That's a good idea. Maybe I'll make an [Epic] section for this at some point. Could be fun! Take 30 levels in Hexblade? Sounds good to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    It can depend heavily on the feat that's given out. A clause enabling the choice of another feat if it is already possessed may be a good idea.
    I like that idea, I'll probably use that. In terms of letting them qualify for other feats with Mage Slayer as a prereq, I'll do that too, but those feats make me cry and you should know that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    At least your grammar is good! Quality over quantity.
    I took AP English my last two years in high school, so I should hope so.

    I'm a big fan of fluff! Though, it seems this forum isn't a big fan of class specific fluff. They're more a "Let me use the mechanics and build my own fluff." Usually... Hmmmm.
    I suppose there are some classes, like Draken's Evolutionist, where throwing standard fluff out the window makes sense due to how customizable it is.

    Personally, I would write good fluff and then when somebody didn't like it, tell them they can take the mechanics and write their own fluff for it to fit their needs.

    Having fluff can help tie things together, and can give someone ideas for their character.

    It took me a long time to learn all the source books and I still end up referencing things like this
    That is ten shades of awesome and useful. I'm going to be stashing a link in my homebrew signature very shortly.


    That's a good idea. Maybe I'll make an [Epic] section for this at some point. Could be fun! Take 30 levels in Hexblade? Sounds good to me.
    Mwu-ha-ha-... Evil purple text? I don't know what you're talking about..... *whistles innocently*

    I like that idea, I'll probably use that. In terms of letting them qualify for other feats with Mage Slayer as a prereq, I'll do that too, but those feats make me cry and you should know that.
    If the feats in the book stink worse then Pepé Le Pew at a garbage dump, brew some replacements.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Personally, I would write good fluff and then when somebody didn't like it, tell them they can take the mechanics and write their own fluff for it to fit their needs.

    Having fluff can help tie things together, and can give someone ideas for their character.
    I did add the blurb at the beginning!

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Hunters of the arcane, eldritch warriors, and an omen of bad luck, hexblades combine powerful hexes and capable martial prowess to overcome obstacles and devastate their foes.
    Perhaps that's not enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    That is ten shades of awesome and useful. I'm going to be stashing a link in my homebrew signature very shortly.
    I actually stash links for helpful threads, or threads I like, in my extended signature. That way I can keep my homebrew signature stocked with nothing but homebrew!

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Mwu-ha-ha-... Evil purple text? I don't know what you're talking about..... *whistles innocently*
    *stares in lawful good*

    To be honest, I would actually consider 20+ levels of this hexblade. *winks and nudges BelGareth*

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    If the feats in the book stink worse then Pepé Le Pew at a garbage dump, brew some replacements.
    I'll leave that to more experienced brewers, like Zaydos.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    I did add the blurb at the beginning!
    Perhaps that's not enough?
    It gives a description/overview, but something with a pinch of flavor to show how you see it may help pull it together. Either a quote or a small excerpt would be my suggestion.

    I'll reference a recent homebrew contest entry of mine: The Taldar. I had a substantial opening passage, (probably more than is/was needed), and then I had a small blurb:
    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Built as machines of war, the Taldar are intelligent constructs capable of prolonged conflict. They lack some of the traditional immunities of constructs, but are typically more intelligent and better able to think and adapt to new situations.
    Something like this ^ serves as a thumbnail so people have an idea of what it is.


    I actually stash links for helpful threads, or threads I like, in my extended signature. That way I can keep my homebrew signature stocked with nothing but homebrew!
    I'm waiting until I have a few more things to store in one. Maybe some quotes or more character/game listings.

    *stares in lawful good*

    To be honest, I would actually consider 20+ levels of this hexblade. *winks and nudges BelGareth*
    I most certainly would as well.

    I'll leave that to more experienced brewers, like Zaydos.
    What are the feat names and sources out of curiosity?
    I may try to remake them if they don't seem too difficult to re-do.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    It gives a description/overview, but something with a pinch of flavor to show how you see it may help pull it together. Either a quote or a small excerpt would be my suggestion.

    I'll reference a recent homebrew contest entry of mine: The Taldar. I had a substantial opening passage, (probably more than is/was needed), and then I had a small blurb:
    Something like this ^ serves as a thumbnail so people have an idea of what it is.
    I may add a picture and small quote to it. I don't want to over-saturate this post, since people might not even like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    I'm waiting until I have a few more things to store in one. Maybe some quotes or more character/game listings.
    You can always head over to the recruitment page, they usually have good games running...

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    I most certainly would as well.
    That is what I like to hear!

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    What are the feat names and sources out of curiosity?
    Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, and Pierce Magical Protection. They're all from Complete Arcane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    I may try to remake them if they don't seem too difficult to re-do.
    They're good feats, unless you're a mage yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
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    Usually it helps do yell something like "I'm going to use my class features to sunder that evil item in your horde!"
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    You can always head over to the recruitment page, they usually have good games running...
    I'm in the midst of applying for a pair of games at the moment. Time will tell if I get in.

    Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, and Pierce Magical Protection. They're all from Complete Arcane.
    They're good feats, unless you're a mage yourself.
    I'll take a swing after I go get something to eat. I'm going to need to crack open my PDF library to read about Binders/Vestiges in Tome of Magic anyway.

    I take it being able to continue to spell cast is a priority?
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    I'm in the midst of applying for a pair of games at the moment. Time will tell if I get in.

    I'll take a swing after I go get something to eat. I'm going to need to crack open my PDF library to read about Binders/Vestiges in Tome of Magic anyway.

    I take it being able to continue to spell cast is a priority?
    Very nice!

    I'd be surprised if someone hasn't brewed replacement feats yet. Sorry for the short response. On mobile.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Since I was invoked.

    I'm not sure I like Magic Eater. SR 14 + Class level means that if Assay SR isn't a factor it'll stop 65% of spells from equal level casters, monsters usually cast SLAs at no higher than CR or a bit under, boss casters are stopped more than 50% of the time, or spend feats to mitigate which means the boss is weaker elsewise (and the ability remains relevant). This is without Assay SR, but Assay SR skews all SR and you can't really balance around it because 90% of enemies lack it. I'd suggest dropping it to 10 + level because it also turns the spell into healing (or 12 + level without).

    That said I'd give them Mettle. Not Improved Mettle, improved mettle is in general a bad idea (I've done it before, I was young and stupid then). Reflex saves come in two types: Reflex halves or non-damaging effect reflex negates; technically Flaming Sphere is Reflex negates damage but there are about 2 effects in that category. Evasion turns Reflex halves into Reflex negates, and improved evasion halves the base damage. This means Improved Evasion halves an unlikely situation.

    Fortitude (and Will saves) however come in primarily 2 types: Negates horrible thing and reduces horrible thing to slap on the wrist. The latter denotes one that is harder to resist. Mettle makes them both negates horrible things. This is fluffy, cool, and not as strong as Evasion despite covering 2 saves. Improved Mettle changes the latter, more common type into, 'fail save take ~10%'. It is much stronger than Improved Evasion, almost the same as blanket immunity to a mass of effects, and creates weird verisimilitude issues where they end up having to game your Improved Mettle. It's a mess and I'd always advise against it.

    Also I don't really like Mind Blank (making them anti-mages is kind of interesting, but not where I'd go with the traditionally Necro/Ench focused debuffers). It's powerful, but the class is already a duskblade that can swift action inflict crippling debuffs (Will negates though), has an array of at-will special abilities in the form of hexes, and perhaps most importantly it undercuts their capstone. Besides immunity to divination needing more definition (if I cast legend lore to learn about Bob the Generic Cleric who adventures with the Hexblade do I hear about the Hexblade? How is it edited out if it is? If I cast Commune and ask a god about it can the god not tell me? Can the god not know? The latter is more than immunity to divination. If I'm a hexblade and invisible can see invisibility see me?). The only clear cut thing that immunity to divination gives you that Mind-Blank doesn't is immunity to Discern Location, and probably Detect X spells (though they don't actually directly affect or target you so it's actually questionable, but I'd say stopping Detect X spells is reasonable).

    Also on Mage Slayer, they're decent feats, unless you're a caster. They're not top tier, Pierce Magical Concealment requires a bit too much investment, and Pierce Magical Protection ought to be more clear on what counts as a spell that grants an AC bonus (see threads on does polymorph). They wouldn't really be near the top of a list to fix, though. If I were to 'fix' them I can see three options: Make it so PMP and PMC don't require Mage Slayer but BAB +2 and Spellcraft 3 ranks, and make Mage Slayer also grant a bonus to damage (or attacks) against casters, or something like each one adds +1 damage against creatures that can cast spells (or use SLAs?). Other option is to remove/halve their CL penalty so anti-mage gish can be more of a thing. Maybe add a few feats to the feat tree, like...

    Spell Parry [General]
    Prerequisites: Mage Slayer, Spellcraft 2 ranks.
    Benefit: 1/encounter when you are targeted with a spell (or spell-like ability) that requires an attack roll or must make a saving throw against a spell (or spell-like ability) you may attempt to parry it as an immediate action. Make an attack roll with a held weapon and use the result in place of your AC or saving throw. If you succeed on a save using this ability you take no effect as if the spell allowed a save to negate, even if normally it'd have a half or partial effect on a successful save.

    Might be too strong, also does nothing to stop Blasphemy spam from Pit Fiends/Balors.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    I'm not sure I like Magic Eater. SR 14 + Class level means that if Assay SR isn't a factor it'll stop 65% of spells from equal level casters, monsters usually cast SLAs at no higher than CR or a bit under, boss casters are stopped more than 50% of the time, or spend feats to mitigate which means the boss is weaker elsewise (and the ability remains relevant). This is without Assay SR, but Assay SR skews all SR and you can't really balance around it because 90% of enemies lack it. I'd suggest dropping it to 10 + level because it also turns the spell into healing (or 12 + level without).
    I've got a really sour taste in my mouth about spell resistance on PC's.

    I've never once had my spell resistance matter as a PC, that includes my 5 + Paladin level from my holy avenger and my 11 + hit die from drow. So I'm actually surprised that you think SR 14 is too high. Your math has always been on point when you break it down for me and I do really value your opinion when it comes to mechanics and design. It's just that in my experience that SR is absolutely terrible on PC's, since monsters are usually higher "level" than PC's and usually higher CR than is meant for a certain ECL party after any amount of optimization. That's just my two cp, though.

    This ability was closely based on the Magic Eating enchantment from Complete Arcane which, in my opinion, is terrible but cool. SR 13 is awful and a d8 of temporary hit points is worthless past level 5ish. Especially since it is a +3 enchantment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    That said I'd give them Mettle. Not Improved Mettle, improved mettle is in general a bad idea (I've done it before, I was young and stupid then). Reflex saves come in two types: Reflex halves or non-damaging effect reflex negates; technically Flaming Sphere is Reflex negates damage but there are about 2 effects in that category. Evasion turns Reflex halves into Reflex negates, and improved evasion halves the base damage. This means Improved Evasion halves an unlikely situation.
    Are you saying you'd give them Mettle in place of Magic Eater, or in addition to it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    It's a mess and I'd always advise against it.
    I will put that in my Zaydonomicon. "Thou shalt never giveth a class Improved Mettle!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Also I don't really like Mind Blank (making them anti-mages is kind of interesting, but not where I'd go with the traditionally Necro/Ench focused debuffers). It's powerful, but the class is already a duskblade that can swift action inflict crippling debuffs (Will negates though), has an array of at-will special abilities in the form of hexes, and perhaps most importantly it undercuts their capstone.
    The class already feels like an anti-mage to me, but just a really bad one. Hexblade is just plain terrible compared to Duskblade, which saddens me. Mind Blank is just traditionally the go-to "no thank you" for my control spells, perhaps it would make more sense if I clarified my intent with the capstone...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Besides immunity to divination needing more definition (if I cast legend lore to learn about Bob the Generic Cleric who adventures with the Hexblade do I hear about the Hexblade? How is it edited out if it is? If I cast Commune and ask a god about it can the god not tell me? Can the god not know? The latter is more than immunity to divination. If I'm a hexblade and invisible can see invisibility see me?). The only clear cut thing that immunity to divination gives you that Mind-Blank doesn't is immunity to Discern Location, and probably Detect X spells (though they don't actually directly affect or target you so it's actually questionable, but I'd say stopping Detect X spells is reasonable).
    Okay, so I was trying to go in the direction of Vecna Blooded minus the whole "nobody knows who you are" bit. That said, I was also attempting to make them immortal, which might have been a mistake. I was aiming for the whole "You don't know when he'll strike, where he'll strike from, or how he'll do it." Type vibe. Hmmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Also on Mage Slayer, they're decent feats, unless you're a caster. They're not top tier, Pierce Magical Concealment requires a bit too much investment, and Pierce Magical Protection ought to be more clear on what counts as a spell that grants an AC bonus (see threads on does polymorph). They wouldn't really be near the top of a list to fix, though. If I were to 'fix' them I can see three options: Make it so PMP and PMC don't require Mage Slayer but BAB +2 and Spellcraft 3 ranks, and make Mage Slayer also grant a bonus to damage (or attacks) against casters, or something like each one adds +1 damage against creatures that can cast spells (or use SLAs?). Other option is to remove/halve their CL penalty so anti-mage gish can be more of a thing.
    I agree with all of the above. Basically removing their CL penalty makes them more worth it to me, in all honesty. You can bite the bullet on one with Practiced Spellcaster, but not two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Spell Parry [General]
    Prerequisites: Mage Slayer, Spellcraft 2 ranks.
    Benefit: 1/encounter when you are targeted with a spell (or spell-like ability) that requires an attack roll or must make a saving throw against a spell (or spell-like ability) you may attempt to parry it as an immediate action. Make an attack roll with a held weapon and use the result in place of your AC or saving throw. If you succeed on a save using this ability you take no effect as if the spell allowed a save to negate, even if normally it'd have a half or partial effect on a successful save.

    Might be too strong, also does nothing to stop Blasphemy spam from Pit Fiends/Balors.
    That is cool. I would take that feat. It feels a little like a ToB counter or maybe like a 4th edition encounter power, but I like it. It is incredibly rare for me to compliment something I say reminds me of ToB or 4th edition, so the fact that this reminds me of both and I still like it is a big deal.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    LP, at 14+HD, spells will fail 70% of the time. Make it 10+HD at best, and leave it alone. SR is usually bad on PCs because it is hard to get and messes with friendly spells (standard action to suppress), not because it's good.

    Also, the curse wording is redundant. As a supernatural ability, the default is to give 10+ 1/2 HD + Ability Modifier. Keying it to Hexblade level instead makes the class less dip friendly.

    And I just plain don't like Mage Slayer. No counterplay there. Oh and antimagic prescence with that and the 14+hD spell resistance you are immune to spells unless the caster makes a 20 on their caster level check. What the ****?

    Personally I do like the idea of having an assortment of spells + hexes. If I were to make a full warlock reword I'd do something similar. I'm not sure about using the PF hexes, though. I don't find them very interesting for them most part.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    LP, at 14+HD, spells will fail 70% of the time. Make it 10+HD at best, and leave it alone. SR is usually bad on PCs because it is hard to get and messes with friendly spells (standard action to suppress), not because it's good.
    I'll adjust it to 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Also, the curse wording is redundant. As a supernatural ability, the default is to give 10+ 1/2 HD + Ability Modifier. Keying it to Hexblade level instead makes the class less dip friendly.
    That's the quote from the original class...

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    And I just plain don't like Mage Slayer. No counterplay there. Oh and antimagic prescence with that and the 14+hD spell resistance you are immune to spells unless the caster makes a 20 on their caster level check. What the ****?
    Ohhh. I didn't think about that. Yeah, I'll adjust some wording here.

    Why don't you like MageSlayer? It's basically just the feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Personally I do like the idea of having an assortment of spells + hexes. If I were to make a full warlock reword I'd do something similar. I'm not sure about using the PF hexes, though. I don't find them very interesting for them most part.
    I really like PF hexes. Like, I have an unhealthy obsession with them.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Fixing the Curse DC can be just one more thing we fix about the class! :)

    And the classes hurt most by mageslayer are other hexblades and similar classes that would want to stay in melee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    For clarity I was saying Mettle in addition to Magic Eater. Make the latter reasonable and mettle, while a strong ability, has always been a big part of hexblade and is the big anti-mage ability (I'd say it fails but there are spells like Avasculate and Stinking Cloud).

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Fixing the Curse DC can be just one more thing we fix about the class! :)
    I feel the need to note that almost every class derived Su ability derives its DC off of class level not hit dice (binder, monk, hexblade, prcs). The exception may be Shadowcaster which as written the specific rule for mystery DCs overrides it and bases them off of effective spell level still.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Fixing the Curse DC can be just one more thing we fix about the class! :)
    I'm leaning towards leaving the DC, to make it less dip friendly. Let me look at the original class again, I may have altered it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    And the classes hurt most by mageslayer are other hexblades and similar classes that would want to stay in melee.
    It shouldn't be a big deal then? Most "mage hunters" are going to want Mage Slayer and this is a free better version. If you manage to get the drop on a caster, this is great.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    For clarity I was saying Mettle in addition to Magic Eater. Make the latter reasonable and mettle, while a strong ability, has always been a big part of hexblade and is the big anti-mage ability (I'd say it fails but there are spells like Avasculate and Stinking Cloud).
    What level would you recommend adding it in?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    I feel the need to note that almost every class derived Su ability derives its DC off of class level not hit dice (binder, monk, hexblade, prcs). The exception may be Shadowcaster which as written the specific rule for mystery DCs overrides it and bases them off of effective spell level still.
    That what I thought, but I wasn't sure...

    Edit:
    Zaydos, how would you word the Antimagic Presence to make it so spells were cast like they were cast by someone 5 levels lower? Not so that the caster suffers an overall -5 to all casting. Example: Disintegrate cast by a 20th level caster functions like it was cast by a 15th level caster, but they still get their full caster level to overcome spell resistance.

    I'm also curious about how you'd accomplish what I was aiming at with the capstone.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    It shouldn't be a big deal then? Most "mage hunters" are going to want Mage Slayer and this is a free better version. If you manage to get the drop on a caster, this is great.
    The point there, I want to say, is that Mage Slayer is anti-hexblade, anti-duskblade, anti-paladin more than it is against wizard or sorcerer who will just take the AoO to get out of melee range and then cast the spell. Combat Reflexes + Trip can get around this but that makes you MAD (Str for damage, at least for PA, Dex for AoOs, Con because everyone needs Con, Int 13+ for Combat Expertise, and Cha for class features).

    What level would you recommend adding it in?
    I'd either put it at 5th and Magic Eater at 9th, or put it at 9th.

    That what I thought, but I wasn't sure...
    There are a few that use

    Edit:
    Zaydos, how would you word the Antimagic Presence to make it so spells were cast like they were cast by someone 5 levels lower? Not so that the caster suffers an overall -5 to all casting. Example: Disintegrate cast by a 20th level caster functions like it was cast by a 15th level caster, but they still get their full caster level to overcome spell resistance.
    Probably make it suffer -5 to CL and just put the Hexblade's SR low enough that it's reasonable with that. Let me repost the Glyph Knight and look at its Abjuration ... nope those retroactively lower the CL of spells on you as they slowly consume them (yum spells). Alrighty then. I'll do this then repost Glyph Knight.

    Beginning at 10th level a hexblade radiates an aura of magical suppression out to 30 ft. Enemies (I'd probably make this not be party friendly myself for verisimilitude reasons, or make it so they could mark creatures to be immune, why does this affect the invisible imp the hexblade is unaware of but does not affect the hexblade's wizard friend's invisible imp familiar the hexblade is unaware of ) which cast a spell while within this area (or was it meant to apply to those cast into the area from outside of it?) have all level dependent effects of the spell (range, duration, 1d6/level damage, targets for some spells, etc) reduced by 5 levels; this does not actually lower the caster level, and does not affect caster level checks, the DC to dispel said spells, and so forth.

    Still awkward (again lowering the SR is easier) but it might work. I think it gets the intent across at least.

    I'm also curious about how you'd accomplish what I was aiming at with the capstone.
    I'd ban or nerf Contact Other Plane and Commune

    More seriously I was going to give it out to Glyph Knight as a 16th level option and scrapped it for Scrying only protection as a 4th level option. So I'd decide it's more hassle than it's worth, and just go with mind-blank level protection. Still you could look at Vecna-Blooded from MMV but it's a nightmare of poorly written rules. Even so that extra sentence you dropped helps some, but I mean if I cast Contact Other Plane and ask for my 4th question 'is anyone planning to attack me' and a Vecna-Blooded creature is does that count as a spell cast to learn information about the Vecna-Blooded creature? I mean I'm not attempting to get information about them in specific but it happens to be information about them, and I've already gotten answers to 3 questions so the spell suddenly fails and... I know a Vecna-Blooded creature is planning to attack me. Also I cast Legend Lore to learn about their friend would still as written get me info about them.

    Personally I'd make it more:

    A hexblade is immune to all scrying and divination effects. Divination effects which specifically target them fail completely, other divination effects simply do not reveal information about the hexblade. For example: a Legend Lore spell cast to learn about the hexblade fails, one cast to learn about his companion Alice the Blue Sorceress conveniently fails to mention the hexblade; a detect magic spell which includes the hexblade in its area fails to detect auras on the hexblade or their items, and similar spells never return auras on the hexblade; and a scrying spell cast on another creature does not show the hexblade treating them as invisible and silent (though if they affect another object its movement is shown). This does not have any effect on See Invisibility, True Seeing, or spells or effects which copy them.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    The point there, I want to say, is that Mage Slayer is anti-hexblade, anti-duskblade, anti-paladin more than it is against wizard or sorcerer who will just take the AoO to get out of melee range and then cast the spell. Combat Reflexes + Trip can get around this but that makes you MAD (Str for damage, at least for PA, Dex for AoOs, Con because everyone needs Con, Int 13+ for Combat Expertise, and Cha for class features).
    So do you think that Mage Slayer is bad for this class? I think still being anti-half-caster is decent mage slaying potential, but perhaps not for this class...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    I'd either put it at 5th and Magic Eater at 9th, or put it at 9th.
    I think giving them mettle at 5th and Magic Eater at 9th is a good idea. I like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Beginning at 10th level a hexblade radiates an aura of magical suppression out to 30 ft. Enemies (I'd probably make this not be party friendly myself for verisimilitude reasons, or make it so they could mark creatures to be immune, why does this affect the invisible imp the hexblade is unaware of but does not affect the hexblade's wizard friend's invisible imp familiar the hexblade is unaware of ) which cast a spell while within this area (or was it meant to apply to those cast into the area from outside of it?) have all level dependent effects of the spell (range, duration, 1d6/level damage, targets for some spells, etc) reduced by 5 levels; this does not actually lower the caster level, and does not affect caster level checks, the DC to dispel said spells, and so forth.
    What if I made it similar to the War Weaver's Eldritch Tapestry?

    Antimagic Presence (Su):
    At 10th level, a hexblade radiates an aura of magic supression out to 30ft. All spells cast within this aura are treated as if they were cast by a spellcaster of 5 levels lower, minimum first level. A hexblade can choose a number of allies equal to his Charisma bonus to be immune to this aura. A hexblade is always immune to his own aura. Designating individuals to be immune to Antimagic Presence is a swift action.

    This ability extends to 60 feet at 14th level and 120 feet at 19th level.

    I could also get rid of the 14th and 19th extension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    A hexblade is immune to all scrying and divination effects. Divination effects which specifically target them fail completely, other divination effects simply do not reveal information about the hexblade. For example: a Legend Lore spell cast to learn about the hexblade fails, one cast to learn about his companion Alice the Blue Sorceress conveniently fails to mention the hexblade; a detect magic spell which includes the hexblade in its area fails to detect auras on the hexblade or their items, and similar spells never return auras on the hexblade; and a scrying spell cast on another creature does not show the hexblade treating them as invisible and silent (though if they affect another object its movement is shown). This does not have any effect on See Invisibility, True Seeing, or spells or effects which copy them.
    This is exactly what I want! You're awesome, Zaydos.

    I can fill the final dead level (19th) by moving the whole "immortal" thing to that. Then I think the class is fairly complete. What say you, sir Dracolich?
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    So do you think that Mage Slayer is bad for this class? I think still being anti-half-caster is decent mage slaying potential, but perhaps not for this class...
    Its existence hurts the class, and it's better for fighting other Hex Blades than wizards. Not saying I think it's bad, though does Mage Slayer apply to SLA use? I mean it says spellcasters you threaten and spells, would it apply to a demon and their SLAs?


    I think giving them mettle at 5th and Magic Eater at 9th is a good idea. I like that.
    In that case I'd move Magic Eater to 10th, make it 6 + level, and move Anti-Magic Aura to 9th and just let Anti-Magic Aura flat reduce CL so that if they cast the spell within 30 ft of you (60 ft at 14th, 120 ft at 19th) it's effectively 11 + level, makes it much simpler to write Anti-Magic Aura even if it does open some gaps in your defense. Also make it less likely to negate friendly spells.

    What if I made it similar to the War Weaver's Eldritch Tapestry?

    Antimagic Presence (Su):
    At 10th level, a hexblade radiates an aura of magic supression out to 30ft. All spells cast within this aura are treated as if they were cast by a spellcaster of 5 levels lower, minimum first level. A hexblade can choose a number of allies equal to his Charisma bonus to be immune to this aura. A hexblade is always immune to his own aura. Designating individuals to be immune to Antimagic Presence is a swift action.

    This ability extends to 60 feet at 14th level and 120 feet at 19th level.
    Yeah though as written it still reads like it'd lower their CL completely for spell resistance and the like... which isn't a problem if you give them Magic Eater second and just assume Antimagic Presence will be hitting them.

    This is exactly what I want! You're awesome, Zaydos.
    I think JesterofDoom's mime had that... then again I helped with the wording on mime.

    I can fill the final dead level (19th) by moving the whole "immortal" thing to that. Then I think the class is fairly complete. What say you, sir Dracolich?
    My only issues were Mind-Blank's redundancy with the capstone (which I will note Mind-Blank still is better than the capstone, and if you want the capstone to fill worth taking a level to get, I'd suggest dropping the divination immunity bit from Mind-Blank, yes it's less all encompassing, but it hits the major ones for PC use and mind-affecting which is on its own probably better for PCs than divination immunity), and the SR being too high (I did fail to notice the interaction between SR and Anti-Magic Aura which becomes much more destructive).

    Oh another possibility for Anti-Magic Aura, while it's on my mind, is just a flat 20% spell failure instead of a CL reduction. It's mechanically a very different effect, but it's my go to for anti-magic auras (though I did recently make a dragon that continuously reduces CL of spell effects in an area).
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Its existence hurts the class, and it's better for fighting other Hex Blades than wizards. Not saying I think it's bad, though does Mage Slayer apply to SLA use? I mean it says spellcasters you threaten and spells, would it apply to a demon and their SLAs?
    Mage Slayer is the class feature I am least attached to. Someone can always take the feat if they want it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    In that case I'd move Magic Eater to 10th, make it 6 + level, and move Anti-Magic Aura to 9th and just let Anti-Magic Aura flat reduce CL so that if they cast the spell within 30 ft of you (60 ft at 14th, 120 ft at 19th) it's effectively 11 + level, makes it much simpler to write Anti-Magic Aura even if it does open some gaps in your defense. Also make it less likely to negate friendly spells.
    Okay, I can handle that. I'm incredibly nervous about it, though. Like I said, SR is already something that I feel sucks on PC's and I've never had it work against enemies for me. The Holy Avenger is 5+Paladin level and Drow gets 11 + RHD and both of them failed me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Yeah though as written it still reads like it'd lower their CL completely for spell resistance and the like... which isn't a problem if you give them Magic Eater second and just assume Antimagic Presence will be hitting them.
    I'll do that. What's the best and least confusing way to word that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    I think JesterofDoom's mime had that... then again I helped with the wording on mime.
    Mime? As in an actual mime? That's terrifying. Did they have frightful presence...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    My only issues were Mind-Blank's redundancy with the capstone (which I will note Mind-Blank still is better than the capstone, and if you want the capstone to fill worth taking a level to get, I'd suggest dropping the divination immunity bit from Mind-Blank, yes it's less all encompassing, but it hits the major ones for PC use and mind-affecting which is on its own probably better for PCs than divination immunity), and the SR being too high (I did fail to notice the interaction between SR and Anti-Magic Aura which becomes much more destructive).
    What if I switched Mind Blank for Protection from X. If you're neutral or good you get Protection from Evil and if you're evil you get Protection from Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Oh another possibility for Anti-Magic Aura, while it's on my mind, is just a flat 20% spell failure instead of a CL reduction. It's mechanically a very different effect, but it's my go to for anti-magic auras (though I did recently make a dragon that continuously reduces CL of spell effects in an area).
    Because of my fear of reducing the spell resistance, I feel like this wouldn't do so well in conjunction with Magic Eater...
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalPaladin View Post
    Mage Slayer is the class feature I am least attached to. Someone can always take the feat if they want it.
    I personally don't mind seeing it, I can just grok the logic for why the feat's core design is an issue.

    Okay, I can handle that. I'm incredibly nervous about it, though. Like I said, SR is already something that I feel sucks on PC's and I've never had it work against enemies for me. The Holy Avenger is 5+Paladin level and Drow gets 11 + RHD and both of them failed me.
    Well Holy Avenger paladin's SR is low enough to be neglible and to automatically fail if the caster has Greater Spell Penetration. As has been noted 10 + level is typically a good spot. Unless you're fighting a boss encounter, or the DM is upping CRs all around (upping EL tends to work better, groups of CR = party level -2 tend to be deadlier than a single CR = party level +2). 10 + level is a good (45%) defense (25% vs things spending 2 feats to get around it but that has build costs) against equal level creatures. If the DM works to negate your SR your SR will fail (there are many options to do this), jacking up the SR just means the DM will have to work to negate your SR at which point you've made the game less diverse, less interesting, and instead of having a class feature relevant 20% (or 50%) of the time, you have a class feature that has to have encounters designed to make it irrelevant (and unfortunately usually deadlier for that). In general giving a class bigger numbers does not fix anything, giving it options that let it invest for bigger numbers works much better (incarnum, binder) because then you can build a character at multiple optimization points. Giving a class an optimization floor that is 'it is balanced if fighting things 5 levels higher' just means the class can't be played at below that optimization level. This is actually why my classes tend to bloat with so many options, I try to build them so that like Sorcerer, Warblade, and Warlock. All three of which you can build them weaker than a monk or strong enough to carry a party. Notably warlock can get some OTK going on if they can get good swift action movement or get an enemy to come to them, Warblade is slightly better at it in that they can use Strike of Perfect Clarity for a 30% shot at one-shotting Pit Fiend/Balor (only half kills a Wyrm Black Dragon) and leaves them with a swift and move action to actually get to the enemy (able to move 40 ft, plus a... 50+ ft jump with that). Warlock is better out of combat than a warblade, though.

    By Asmodeus Snowbluff has a quote in their sig which summarizes this (and the profane glory of 3.5) pretty well.

    I'll do that. What's the best and least confusing way to word that.
    At 10th level, a hexblade radiates an aura of magic supression out to 30ft. All spells cast within this aura have their caster level reduced by 5 (to a minimum of 1); this applies to any caster level checks made as part of the spell, to the DC to dispel such a spell, and other calculations based off of the caster level. A hexblade can choose a number of creatures equal to his Charisma bonus to be immune to this aura. A hexblade is always immune to his own aura. Designating individuals to be immune to Antimagic Presence is a swift action.

    This ability extends to 60 feet at 14th level and 120 feet at 19th level. (note +60 ft to this is not actually a dead level, still 'you don't die of old age' is a fairly minor game mechanic effect especially if it stops aging mods or you keep aging penalties, which are both better ideas than +3 to all mental ability scores if you start at 19th+).

    Then you just make Magic Eater SR 5 + Class level. Easily overcome from outside, or by allies, but hard to overcome within your aura. Up it to 7 + Class level (occasionally relevant from outside, 55% negation and healing from inside) and drop the extensions to the aura.

    Mime? As in an actual mime? That's terrifying. Did they have frightful presence...?
    Final Fantasy Mime, so more of a Mimic class.

    What if I switched Mind Blank for Protection from X. If you're neutral or good you get Protection from Evil and if you're evil you get Protection from Good?
    Could switch it to full blown immunity to mind-affecting effects, would leave more purpose to the capstone. Switching it to Prot works too.

    Because of my fear of reducing the spell resistance, I feel like this wouldn't do so well in conjunction with Magic Eater...
    Leave Magic Eater 10 + CL, and it gives you a ~60% immunity to magic, and your allies a 20% immunity, it also makes the class feature actually relevant against spells like Solid Fog and a way to stop casters retreating with Teleport. It's not reliable (20% chance) but it makes casting hazardous (20% chance of wasting a turn and slot). It's a stronger mechanical impact than -5 CL, wider application of an ability than -5 CL, harder for a DM to circumvent, and hard for a player to turn into full immunity unless the DM circumvents it.
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    Default Re: Hexblade (Base Class) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    I personally don't mind seeing it, I can just grok the logic for why the feat's core design is an issue.
    I see. Well, I'll leave it then. For now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Well Holy Avenger paladin's SR is low enough to be neglible and to automatically fail if the caster has Greater Spell Penetration. As has been noted 10 + level is typically a good spot. Unless you're fighting a boss encounter, or the DM is upping CRs all around (upping EL tends to work better, groups of CR = party level -2 tend to be deadlier than a single CR = party level +2). 10 + level is a good (45%) defense (25% vs things spending 2 feats to get around it but that has build costs) against equal level creatures. If the DM works to negate your SR your SR will fail (there are many options to do this), jacking up the SR just means the DM will have to work to negate your SR at which point you've made the game less diverse, less interesting, and instead of having a class feature relevant 20% (or 50%) of the time, you have a class feature that has to have encounters designed to make it irrelevant (and unfortunately usually deadlier for that). In general giving a class bigger numbers does not fix anything, giving it options that let it invest for bigger numbers works much better (incarnum, binder) because then you can build a character at multiple optimization points. Giving a class an optimization floor that is 'it is balanced if fighting things 5 levels higher' just means the class can't be played at below that optimization level. This is actually why my classes tend to bloat with so many options, I try to build them so that like Sorcerer, Warblade, and Warlock. All three of which you can build them weaker than a monk or strong enough to carry a party. Notably warlock can get some OTK going on if they can get good swift action movement or get an enemy to come to them, Warblade is slightly better at it in that they can use Strike of Perfect Clarity for a 30% shot at one-shotting Pit Fiend/Balor (only half kills a Wyrm Black Dragon) and leaves them with a swift and move action to actually get to the enemy (able to move 40 ft, plus a... 50+ ft jump with that). Warlock is better out of combat than a warblade, though.
    When you do this, it always amazes me and hurts my brain at the same time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    At 10th level, a hexblade radiates an aura of magic supression out to 30ft. All spells cast within this aura have their caster level reduced by 5 (to a minimum of 1); this applies to any caster level checks made as part of the spell, to the DC to dispel such a spell, and other calculations based off of the caster level. A hexblade can choose a number of creatures equal to his Charisma bonus to be immune to this aura. A hexblade is always immune to his own aura. Designating individuals to be immune to Antimagic Presence is a swift action.

    This ability extends to 60 feet at 14th level and 120 feet at 19th level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    (note +60 ft to this is not actually a dead level, still 'you don't die of old age' is a fairly minor game mechanic effect especially if it stops aging mods or you keep aging penalties, which are both better ideas than +3 to all mental ability scores if you start at 19th+).
    Hmmmm. Thematically I'd love to give them the anti(magic) aging cream. As an unstoppable, untraceable, and inevitable bounty hunter of the arcane... How would you do this?

    Unnamed Class Feature (Ex?)
    At 19th level, a hexblade has transcended mortality and become an immortal hunter of the arcane. A hexblade no longer ages and cannot be aged magically. Hexblades do not gain bonuses or accrue penalties for old age.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Final Fantasy Mime, so more of a Mimic class.
    I'll have to hunt it down later!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Could switch it to full blown immunity to mind-affecting effects, would leave more purpose to the capstone. Switching it to Prot works too.
    I like this option. I'll make that happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Leave Magic Eater 10 + CL, and it gives you a ~60% immunity to magic, and your allies a 20% immunity, it also makes the class feature actually relevant against spells like Solid Fog and a way to stop casters retreating with Teleport. It's not reliable (20% chance) but it makes casting hazardous (20% chance of wasting a turn and slot). It's a stronger mechanical impact than -5 CL, wider application of an ability than -5 CL, harder for a DM to circumvent, and hard for a player to turn into full immunity unless the DM circumvents it.
    10 + CL and then antimagic presence for 20% failure. I like this.

    Edit:
    Alright, sir. Want to give that a once over? I just added all the changes...
    Last edited by LoyalPaladin; 2016-10-17 at 04:18 PM.
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