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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    Discipline Dilettante
    You have always been one to dabble. Now your proneness to dabble in many fields has come to reenforce all that you know.
    -Prerequisites: Levels in two or more classes.
    -Benefit: You may add 1/2 the total number of classes you possess to the effective class level of each class you possess. You may not, by merit of the additional levels granted through of this feat, acquire additional abilities or gain additional uses of class features.




    Look, I made an ill-advised feat.
    Last edited by Xuldarinar; 2016-10-14 at 08:26 PM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    So fighter 10/ wizard 10 with this would count as fighter 15 and/or wizard 15 for prerequisits, have a caster level of 15, but have the spells/day (and free spells known) of a wizard 10?

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    Default Re: [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    Quote Originally Posted by nikkoli View Post
    So fighter 10/ wizard 10 with this would count as fighter 15 and/or wizard 15 for prerequisits, have a caster level of 15, but have the spells/day (and free spells known) of a wizard 10?
    A Fighter 10/Wizard 10 would have all the class features of a fighter 10 and a wizard 10, but those class features would count as fighter 11 and wizard 11. Caster level would be 11, but spells known and per day would be as 10 still.

    A Fighter 8/Wizard 12 would have all the class features of a fighter 8 and a wizard 12, but those class features would function largely as if they were fighter 9 and wizard 13.

    A Cleric 5/Fighter 5/Rogue 5/Wizard 5 would have all the class features of a cleric 5, a fighter 5, a rogue 5, and a wizard 5, but those class features would function largely as cleric 7, fighter 7, rogue 7, and wizard 7.

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    Default Re: [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    Ah I see it says 'classes' not 'class levels.' So a new class every level gets interesting
    Last edited by nikkoli; 2016-10-15 at 04:47 PM.

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    Default Re: [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    Quote Originally Posted by nikkoli View Post
    Ah I see it says 'classes' not 'class levels.' So a new class every level gets interesting

    It would. If you took a new class at each level, each class would have the class features of 1st level, but those class features would function as if they were at 11th level. The trick is figuring out a build that takes a new class at each level.
    Last edited by Xuldarinar; 2016-10-16 at 11:45 AM.

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    Default Re: [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    I feel like i need to math this character out now. Prestige classes could make this quite interesting.
    Last edited by nikkoli; 2016-10-16 at 12:48 PM.

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    Default Re: [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    So here is Jim Bob. He has tried to learn a little bit of everything to reach enlightenment or whatever it is Jim Bob wants to do with his life.
    Classes, I used published Pathfinder stuff (classes, prestige classes, feats) for ease of sourcing, all of this should be on the PFSRD except for, ya know, the feat this thread is for. Also listed alignment requirements if there are some for classes.


    Spoiler
    Show

    1: Monk (Lawful)
    2: Ranger
    3: Paladin (LGood)
    4: Fighter
    5: Psi-War (DSP)
    6: Soulknife (DSP)
    7: Dark Tempest (Psionic PRC, DSP)
    8: Slayer
    9: Celestial Knight (LGood)
    10: Chevalier (Good)
    11: Adaptive Warrior
    12: Soul Archer
    13: Mystic Archer
    14: Golden Legionnaire (Good)
    15: War Mind
    16: Steel Falcon
    17: Pathfinder Chronicler
    18: Student of War
    19: Brother of the Seal (Lawful)
    20: Cavalier


    Feats
    Updated the Feats
    Spoiler
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    1: Point blank shot
    H 1: Combat expertise
    M 1: stunning fist
    M 1: improved unarmed strike
    M 1: Dodge (lets go simple for his early on feats)
    3: Discipline Dilettante
    4 F 1: Improved feint (retrained at 11 to Precise shot)
    5: Precise shot (retrained at 11 to Psionic talent)
    5 PW 1: Psionic Shot
    6 SK 1: Weapon focus (Mind blade)
    6 SK 1: Wild Talent, Switches to Psionic talent b/c the PSIWAR level is first.
    7: Mind Blade Knight
    9: Intuitive Shot
    11: Iron will
    13: Skill focus (knowledge (Planes))
    15: Psionic talent
    17: Psionic talent
    19: Psionic talent
    Possible extra feats:
    4 F 2: Deadly aim
    6 F 4: Weapon Specialization (mind blade thing)
    10 F 6: Bullseye shot
    14 F 8: Greater weapon focus (mind blade thing)
    18 F 10:
    6 PW 2: Psionic talent
    9 PW 5: Psionic talent
    12 PW 8: Psionic talent
    15 PW 11: Psionic talent
    3 M 2: Deflect Arrows
    11 M 6: Improved feint
    19 M 10: Improved Critical (mind blade)


    Saves and BAB and all that jazz
    Spoiler
    Show

    HD:
    1d8+3d10+1d8+1d10+1d8+9d10+1d8+1d10+1d8+1d10
    BAB by level
    0, 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 13, 14, 14, 15
    Fort:
    2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 16, 16, 17, 18, 19, 19, 19, 20, 22
    Reflex:
    2, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 6, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 12, 12, 13, 13, 14, 14
    Will:
    2, 2, 4, 4, 4, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11
    Total skill points before INT:
    4+4+2+2+4+4+2+6+4+4+2+2+4+2+2+4+8+6+4+4
    Special:
    1. AC Bonus, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Damage 1d6
    2. 1st favored enemy, track, wild empathy
    3. Aura of good, detect evil, smite evil 1/day
    5. psionic proficiency, warrior’s path
    6. form mind blade, shape mind blade, throw mind blade
    7. Diverse training, psychic strike +1d8
    8. Studied target, track
    9. Sentinel against undeath
    10. Aura of courage, recklessness
    11. Counter Fighting Style, Examine Technique
    12. Form Mind Arrow, Ranged Blade Skill
    13. Inevitable Strike (1/day)
    14. Authoritative command +1, defy danger 1
    15. Chain of personal superiority +2, warrior’s journey
    16. Enemy of slavers, heart of freedom, sailor and survivalist
    17. Bardic Knowledge, deep pockets, master scribe
    18. Know your enemy +1
    19. Unarmed combat, water splitting stone
    20. Challenge 1/day, mount, order, tactician


    Rolled stats for Jim Bob (using 4d6 rerolling 1s and dropping the lowest die, thats how i and all my friends prefer to do stats)
    He got
    Str: 16 Dex: 12 Con: 16 Int: 15 Wis: 17 Cha: 9
    So 4 lvl points go into Wis to bring it up to 21, then the last one into Int. +5 book for wisdom/cha, +4 book for everything else, +6 belt/headband nets him a grand total of 26/22/26/26/32/20.
    All the totals
    HP: 5d8+15d10+160
    AC: 10 + 6 dex + 13 monk wis + 5 natural + 5 deflection + 1 insight: 40 not too bad
    BAB: 15
    Melee: 15+8+1+1=25 + enhancement (mind blade thing)
    Ranged: 15+6+1+1=23 + enhancement (mind blade thing)
    Fort base: 22 Total: 30
    Reflex base: 14 Total: 20
    Will base: 11 Total: 24
    Skill points 74+20*int mod
    7 bonus feats and maybe +5 more from fighter + 3 from monk, +3 from psiwar
    20 classes
    Manifesting as a 12th level Psiwar with a Manifester level of 33
    Soul knife level for enchantment bonus of 33
    11th level psi war warriors path stuff
    22nd level monk unarmed strikes
    Attacks ignore 11 points of object hardness
    Favored enemies up to lvl 11 ranger

    Not to shabby for a chassis for something to have. I think I did all the math right.
    Jim Bob isn't very optimized, but hes kinda interesting, and has lots of wisdom based stuff.
    Jim Bob has also joined every lawful and good organization in existence, and has opened his mind to enlightenment.
    Last edited by nikkoli; 2016-10-16 at 04:23 PM.

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    Default Re: [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    This could be interesting with classes that use the same (or similar) resources:

    Susie Q the ??? Monk 4/Paladin (Enlightened Paladin) 4/Chevalier 3/Champion of the Enlightened 2 is a 13th level character. If we give her the Discipline Dilletante feat, we get some interesting results:

    She has the Ki Pool of a 16th level character, Smites Evil as a 17th level character, and has the full Monk unarmed-strike progression.

    The trick is to stack classes that give you the same thing - +2 to your class level adds up quickly if you're doing it 3 times. If I wanted to fill out Susie Q, I'd toss on 2 levels of Ninja, and random levels in 5 other classes. That adds up to a +5 bonus to effective class level from the feat, which I get to apply to her Ki Pool 4 times.

    You can pull off similar tricks with stuff like Sneak Attack - let's take Billy G the Rogue 1/Ninja 1/Alchemist (Vivisectionist 1)/X 1/Y 1/Assassin 1/Deep Sea Pirate 1/Sleepless Investigator 1. He's an 8th level character with levels in 8 classes - so he's 5th level in all of them for the purposes of Sneak Attack. That's +13d6 Sneak Attack unless there are more classes that grant Sneak Attack at 1st level.

    =---=

    In other words, this feat is deliciously broken. I'm pretty sure that building a 20th level character with only one level in each class would lead to some heinous stacking. In fact, here are some combos (assuming you never take more than 1 level in each class):

    Rogue 1/Ninja 1/Alchemist (Vivisectionist) 1 - This trio of classes will give you 18d6 Sneak Attack by 20th level.
    Inquisitor 1/Cleric 1 - You're level 22 for the purposes of your Domain's abilities.
    Sorcerer 1/Arcanist 1 - Level 22 for a particular bloodline with the right Arcane Exploit.
    Fighter 1 is notable since you get feats based off a formula - therefore your 20th level character will have 6 bonus Combat Feats. Trading one general feat for 5 Combat feats (and a mess of other stuff) seems perfectly fair to me!

    An 18-class build (which drops the ludicrous bonuses down a smidge) allows for more flexibility, since you have room for stuff like Barbarian 2/Oracle 1/Rage Priest 1, which would give you Rage as a 21st level character and Oracle Mystery/Curse stuff as a 20th level Oracle. You'd also get 4 more Rage Powers, which can have nice synergy.

    =---=

    Note, the above is just abusing stuff that works off a formula - I get extra Rage Powers because I get them at 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter, and I get bonus Combat feats because you get them at 1st level and every even level afterwards.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
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    I do Let's Plays now. Current Game: Rolan's Curse

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    Default Re: [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    Ooo. I had not accounted for stuff like feats at first level. the Fighter 1/Psi-war 1/warpriest 3/x 1/y 1/z1 .... looks even more appealing for that now. And you would have some astounding level of fighter, like i bet you could pull 30-40+ at lvl 20 with fighter, warblade, warpriest psiwar, and a few other classes.

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    Default Re: [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    Most of that does work. I didn't take into account pools of points, which adds to the brokenness, but I did take care of one thing in the feat as it stands; additional abilities. Just because you have the first of a line doesn't mean you gain additional. Same goes for spellcasting; If I can cast 1st level spells, it doesn't mean I get 2nd+ by merit of the math of this feat. My caster level goes up, but I don't get more advanced spells.


    Nevertheless... There is a reason why I said in the original post it was ill-advised. Used lightly it could be a nice thing to help encourage multiclassing in a system where multiclassing is more often punishing than not. Abused...



    The following has some room for moving around, but here;

    (Ninja, Rogue, or Unchained Rogue) 1/Vivsectionist 1/Greensting Slayer 1/Serial Killer 1/Kineticist 1/Warpriest 1/Assassin 1/(Deep Sea Pirate or 'Crimson Assassin') 1/Sleepless Detective 1/(Spiritualist or Summoner) 1/Mesmerist 1/(9 more classes)

    N/R/UR; +6d6
    V; +6d6
    GS; +3d6 by expending 1 point from arcane pool.
    K; 6d6+6+Con vs AC or 6d6+ 1/2 Con vs Touch AC. (Range 30ft, so..)
    Wp; Changes kinetic blast into 1d10+5d6+6+Con or 1d10+5d6+1/2 Con
    Sk; +6d8
    A: +5d6
    DSP/CA: +4d6
    SD: +4d6
    Sp/Su; For a flanking buddy.
    Me; +3d6+5 damage via painful stare.

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    Default Re: [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    Ah the 12th lvl of Psiwar us becasue of the dark tempist progressing the progression of psiwar, rather than the feat progressing the psiwar.

    Because i showed this to my friend, and his response is that you could use the feats progression of acquired abilities to progress something else. So where a base class would only progress caster level, a PRC's progressed casting would affect CL and spells per day, then that would stack to progress your wizard level to the point of "yes, i did in fact kill that deity with a lvl 103 spell, as a free action, because one time I heard they spelled my name wrong."

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    Default Re: [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    You know what would probably be a more balanced take on the feat?

    Something based off of expanding Favored Class benefits. Something like:

    Broad Horizons [General]
    You have broad interests and a polymath's intuition.
    Prerequisites: Must have levels in at least two classes.
    Benefits: You gain favored class benefits whenever you take the first level of a class, regardless of whether of not it is your favored class.
    Special: The benefits of this feat are retroactive.

    Polymath Pinnacle [General]
    You have reached a grand convergence of disparate skills - the parts sum up to a greater whole.
    Prerequisites: Broad Horizons, must have levels in at least five classes.
    Benefits: You gain a favored class benefit for each class you have at least one level in. Whenever you take your first level in a class, you gain an additional favored class benefit.

    Multiclass Genius [General]
    You can extrapolate from the most paltry of teachings - your jack-of-all-trades brilliance is utterly unmatched.
    Prerequisites: Polymath Pinnacle, must have levels in at least eight classes.
    Benefits: Triple the benefits of each favored class benefit that grants you a fraction of a class feature. In addition, you gain +1 hit-point for each skill point you've gained through favored class benefits, and vice-versa. Whenever you gain a new favored class bonus, you may choose +1 hit-point and +1 skill point as a single choice.

    =---=

    The whole point of Multiclass Genius is that you're going to be running into a lot of those dumb "you gain 1/6th of a Hex" Favored class benefits - you might as well actually get the benefit by the point that you've got eight classes.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
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    I do Let's Plays now. Current Game: Rolan's Curse

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    Default Re: [Feat] Discipline Dilettante

    That is certainly an interesting, and far less abusable, approach. I like it.

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