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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2016

    Default "TO: BoBaFeat" Body outside Body & Moment of Clarity

    Spoiler: DISCLAIMER:
    Show
    This is just a Theoretical Optimization build and not meant to play. Only if you want a race between your DM and you (can & will he kill you before you become godlike? I would assume so ;)


    Hi everyone, I want to show you some refreshed old TO cheese I stepped upon a few days ago. The goal of this build(s) is(/are) to get near pun-puns power-level in 20 levels.

    The cheese comes from the spell "Body outside Body" mainly. I spent the last week with tinkering cheese around the spell and googling for additional abuse information. I haven't played a wu-jen so far and didn't even know about the spell a week ago, but the abuse potential is so obvious, that it was just a matter of time until I got results.


    This was the 1st thread about a Beholder Mage build relying on BoB cheese, which inspired
    me to play a bit with BoB around myself.

    LordofProcrastination's Dirty Tricks


    After I got interested into BoB builds, Void Disciples 4th lvl ability did come into my mind and I started to google again and hit these 2 threads/builds.

    Dolly-the-8-round-God
    &
    3-5-New-TO-abuses

    Both builds rely on the use of Archmages SLA-garanting class ability. But imho you don't need this to get the cheese. You just need many BoB clones, the "Moment of Clarity" ability of Void Disciple to give temporary feats and access to 9th level spells to pull of the cheese.

    "BoBaFeat" minimal requirements:

    - able to cast "Body outside Body"(7th)
    Spoiler: (Spell) Body outside Body
    Show
    Conjuration (Creation)
    Level: Wu Jen 7,
    Components: V, S, M,
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 10 ft.
    Effect: 1 duplicate/5 levels
    Duration: 1 round/2 levels
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No

    - clones have 1/4 Hp
    - clones can't cast spells or use spell trigger items
    - clones can use SLAs
    - clones have all your class lvl and abilities, talents, racials, stats (expect "casting spells" and the lower Hp)

    - Void Disciple 4 ("Moment of Clarity" ability)
    Spoiler: Moment of Clarity
    Show
    - give target ally any feat (with the exception of ancestor feats)
    or
    - give target ally ranks(!) in a skill equal to the associated attribute modifier of that skill
    - duration: Void Disciple lvl / rounds

    - have 9th level spell-slots

    This will lead to a build like this (lvl20 needed to hit 9th lvl spell access):
    a) Wu Jen X / Void Disciple 4 / Yyyyy X
    or if you don't want to be limited to Wu Jen Spell list
    b) Wizard X / Void Disciple 4 / Wyrm Wizard 2 / Yyyyy X

    This is much less restricting compared to the other builds. You have 9-11 levels where you can insert any class witch adds full casting progression for your base casting class. As said, you don't need Archmage to make it work and here is how the build works:


    BoBaFeat LvL 20

    (we take option b with the Wizard casting and go straight wizard for the remaining level, for a simple example)

    1) cast "Body outside Body" (you maybe need to cast it 2 or 3 times to have enough clones for the start)
    2) order 6 (or 3 of em twice) of your clones to give you "Improved Spell Capacity [Epic]" temporary with their "Moment of Clarity ability" . you have now a 15th level spellslot.
    3) order other clones to give you Silent Spell, Still Spell, Quicken Spell and finally "Innate Spell: Body outside Body"

    Now, you have "Body outside Body" at will and are set to break the game with your unlimited amount of Clones.

    - unlimited amount of Clones
    - use clones and repeat the process to give you all spells you know as SLA at WILL (!)
    - since your clones only have a restriction of casting spells, they can use all Spells as SLA at Will now
    - give you all feats (only ancestor feats are forbidden, EPIC NOT! if the DM argues that you need to be lvl 21, go for Dragonwrought Kobold. Being a normal dragon of age, qualifies you for epic feats)
    - due to all feats, you get unlimited Stats (epic +1 feats)
    - unlimited stats + Moment of Clarity = unlimited skill ranks (!) + unlimited stat bonus on any skill
    - unlimited amount of Quicken Spells per round (due to unlimited Multispell epic feats)
    - unlimited HP (HP feats & unlimited CON bonus)
    - to increase the amount of cones per spell/SLA use, give yourself "Spell Stowaway: Body outside Body". now every time someone in 300feet range casts (or uses SLA) BoB, you and all clones in range get the effect for free. we have raised the clone production exponentially sereal times.

    BoBaFeat can now produce enough clones to fill the multiverse in a blink of an eye. Each of em a demigod, obeying the only one and real BoBaFeat. I think he could befriend with pun-pun.


    The question at the end is: What could you fill in the remaining plain wizard levels as mention above. Which PrC has full spellprogression and usefull (after having all feats) abilities to add to this build? Is there anything that would make a difference? One of the other threads/builds relies on Jade Phoenix Mage, which has some nice fluffy abilities, but nothing that really makes a difference imho. Any other ideas? (more Void Disciple for longer duration on Moment on Clarity would be a bit more efficient, but still not making any difference in power lvl)


    I hope you enjoyed the BoBaFeat build and credits also go to the mentioned threads, pun-pun and their inspiration that lead to this thread. Feel free to comment and add your thoughts. I would appreciate it.
    Orochimaru, the ultimate villain
    El Mariachi dual double-hand-crossbow action
    Papa Smurf a Redcap Lion of Talisid (ubercharger/gish)
    Hellfire Escalation Glaivelock a Killer Kobold build
    Hammerdin of Moradin a guide to epic hammer throwing
    Almighty Claw of Malar monk/warlock gish (with minor DBZ-SSJ fluff)
    TO: BoBaFeat Body outside Body & Void Disciple 4 to break the game.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    In eternity.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "TO: BoBaFeat" Body outside Body & Moment of Clarity

    Incantatrix lets you Persist stuff.

    And wow! This is nuts!
    Last edited by Endarire; 2017-08-06 at 02:27 AM.
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    Arseplomancy = Fanatic Tarrasque!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2016

    Default Re: "TO: BoBaFeat" Body outside Body & Moment of Clarity

    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    Incantatrix lets you Persist stuff.

    And wow! This is nuts!
    First thx for the reply, even if it comes a bit late, but hey you are still the first =)

    While Incantatrix is cool under "normal" circumstances, it wouldn't change that much for BoBaFeat I guess.

    He could always put a few clones somewhere, just to recast the desired sla-"spell" and sla-BoB until end of time.
    Why persist when you can have clones use the SLA every turn?

    And if BoBaFeat really wants to persist stuff:
    - Moment of Clarity > Persist spell + a few times "Improved Spell Capacity" [Epic] > cast persist spell X

    Sry, Incantatrix won't change anything.

    To be an interesting PRC, it has to have full casting and useful "unique" abilities, that you can't copy/emulate with feats and (wizard) spells.
    Orochimaru, the ultimate villain
    El Mariachi dual double-hand-crossbow action
    Papa Smurf a Redcap Lion of Talisid (ubercharger/gish)
    Hellfire Escalation Glaivelock a Killer Kobold build
    Hammerdin of Moradin a guide to epic hammer throwing
    Almighty Claw of Malar monk/warlock gish (with minor DBZ-SSJ fluff)
    TO: BoBaFeat Body outside Body & Void Disciple 4 to break the game.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2014

    Default Re: "TO: BoBaFeat" Body outside Body & Moment of Clarity

    Um... how do you get around the severely limited duration of Moment of Clairity?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2016

    Default Re: "TO: BoBaFeat" Body outside Body & Moment of Clarity

    Quote Originally Posted by martixy View Post
    Um... how do you get around the severely limited duration of Moment of Clairity?
    With massive amounts of clones that produce even more clones.
    Enough clones to reapply Moment of Clarity again and again.

    Once you got SLA:BoB and Spell Stowaway:BoB you can produce a crazy amount of clones per round (for the duration of MoC). Thus you have enough clones with Moment of Clarity rdy to reapply any feat/skillranks where the duration ended.

    Almost any problem can be solved with massive clone production ^^
    Orochimaru, the ultimate villain
    El Mariachi dual double-hand-crossbow action
    Papa Smurf a Redcap Lion of Talisid (ubercharger/gish)
    Hellfire Escalation Glaivelock a Killer Kobold build
    Hammerdin of Moradin a guide to epic hammer throwing
    Almighty Claw of Malar monk/warlock gish (with minor DBZ-SSJ fluff)
    TO: BoBaFeat Body outside Body & Void Disciple 4 to break the game.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2014

    Default Re: "TO: BoBaFeat" Body outside Body & Moment of Clarity

    I can see why this is TO now. It's massively cheesy.

    Are you aware of any way to extend that duration(ideally to persist levels)?
    This ability is pretty unique and has significant optimization and abuse potential.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2016

    Default Re: "TO: BoBaFeat" Body outside Body & Moment of Clarity

    Quote Originally Posted by martixy View Post
    I can see why this is TO now. It's massively cheesy.

    Are you aware of any way to extend that duration(ideally to persist levels)?
    This ability is pretty unique and has significant optimization and abuse potential.
    yeah Moment of Clarity is really cheesy.

    But sadly, there ain't much room to alter the duration:

    "The effect lasts for 1 round per level of the void disciple. "
    You could argue that it ain't restricting it to "per level of void disciple (prc)" and that it means your total character lvl with "per lvl of the void disciple", but that's as far as you can stretch it.

    unless there is a way to cheat character/class lvl that I am not aware off?
    edit: do temporary HD count as character lvl?^^ I guess not, but if someone got a quick answer I would be happy. Otherwise I'll look into it as soon I have more time (g2g in a few minutes).
    Last edited by Gruftzwerg; 2017-08-08 at 09:25 AM.
    Orochimaru, the ultimate villain
    El Mariachi dual double-hand-crossbow action
    Papa Smurf a Redcap Lion of Talisid (ubercharger/gish)
    Hellfire Escalation Glaivelock a Killer Kobold build
    Hammerdin of Moradin a guide to epic hammer throwing
    Almighty Claw of Malar monk/warlock gish (with minor DBZ-SSJ fluff)
    TO: BoBaFeat Body outside Body & Void Disciple 4 to break the game.

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