Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor (PEACH)

[Arkhios]

Inspired by the Inquisitor from Pathfinder, I hereby present to you:

Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor
Link to Homebrewery

Grim and determined, the inquisitor roots out enemies of the faith - both mundane and supernatural, using trickery and guile when righteousness and purity is not enough. Although inquisitors are dedicated to a deity, they are above many of the normal rules and conventions of the church. They answer to their deity and their own sense of justice alone, and are willing to take extreme measures to meet their goals.

Inquisitors tend to move from place to place, chasing down enemies and researching emerging threats. As a result, they often travel with others, if for no other reason than to mask their presence. Inquisitors work with members of their faith whenever possible, but even such allies are not above suspicion.

An inquisitor is a divine assassin, an exorcist, and a heretic hunter all at once.

Edit: I thought it was counterproductive to continue updating both this post and the Homebrewery file simultaneously, so from now on every update I make can be found there.

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Example Character (or an Iconic Inquisitor, if you will):

Rogue (Inquisitor) 4
Humanoid (Variant Human)
Background. Urban Bounty Hunter
AC. 16 (Studded Leather)
HP. 27 (4d8+4)
Speed. 30 ft.
Str 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8
Saves. Dexterity +6, Intelligence +4
Skills. Acrobatics +6, Insight +6, Investigation +6, Medicine +4, Perception +4, Religion +4, Sleight of Hand +6, Stealth +6
Expertise. (Insight, Investigation)
Feats. Crossbow Expert
Attacks.
Hand Crossbow, +6 to hit, 1d6+4 piercing damage.
Heavy Crossbow, +6 to hit, 1d10+4 piercing damage.
Whip, +6 to hit, 1d4+4 piercing damage.
Special.
Sneak Attack. +2d6 extra damage.
Cunning Action. Dash, Disengage, and Hide as a bonus action.
Inquisition. Advantage on Wisdom (Insight) and Intelligence (Investigation) checks.
Spellcasting. Saving throw DC for your spells is 12.
Cantrips: Guidance, Thaumaturgy
1st-level spells (3 slots): Cure Wounds, Detect Evil and Good, Protection from Evil and Good, Shield of Faith
Challenge. 4 (1100 XP)
Notable Equipment. Half-plate, Whip, Heavy Crossbow, Hand Crossbow and 20 bolts, Holy Symbol, Thieves' Tools, Healer's Kit.

Spoiler: 40K Inquisitor Variant*

Show

Replace from Attacks. Hand Crossbow with Automatic Pistol, +6 to hit, 2d6+4 piercing damage. Heavy Crossbow with Automatic Rifle, +6 to hit, 2d8+4 piercing damage.
Replace from Challenge. 4 (1100 XP) with 5 (1800 XP)
Replace from Notable Equipment.Heavy Crossbow with Automatic Rifle, Hand Crossbow and 20 bolts with Automatic Pistol and 20 bullets.
*designer's note: Crossbow Expert's loading part should in my opinion apply to firearms as well, since IIRC they have been evolved from crossbows.

Also, for further fluff:

*Inspiration credit to Khutef

[Gr7mm Bobb]

Comments from me later (hopefully). WotC released this a while back: Unearthed Arcana Gothic Heroes.

[Arkhios]

Comments from me later (hopefully). WotC released this a while back: Unearthed Arcana Gothic Heroes.

I know that, but Inquisitive archetype is more like a detective, and as such not what I was aiming for.

An Inquisitive is like Sherlock Holmes - solving mysteries, while an Inquisitor - as I see it - is a priest who have taken up arms to hunt heretics and infidels with a rather singleminded purpose.

[Calen]

GREATER JUDGMENT
When you reach 13th level, the target of your judgment cannot benefit from being unseen by you. This ability has no effect on anyone else interacting with the target.

I am not sure what you mean by this.

...the target of your judgement cannot hide from you. (?)

...you do not have disadvantage when attacking the target of your judgement when it is hidden from you. (?)

...the target of your judgement cannot hide from you. You can always see your target unless a solid surface is in the way. (?)

Something else?

[Arkhios]

I am not sure what you mean by this.

...the target of your judgement cannot hide from you. (?)

...*you do not have disadvantage when attacking the target of your judgement when it is hidden from you. (?)

...the target of your judgement cannot hide from you. You can always see your target unless a solid surface is in the way. (?)

Something else?

*This is what I was aiming for. For reasons unknown I couldn't get it out clear enough. So, thanks!

Basically being invisible or hidden within darkness doesn't help against an Inquisitor's attacks from that point forward. Neither can the target gain advantage when attacking you.

[Zaydos]

How often is Final Judgment meant to be usable?

[Arkhios]

How often is Final Judgment meant to be usable?

Once per long rest. Forgot to put it in there. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Arkhios]

Bump. While I appreciate the questions and pointing-outs above, I'd like hear if you think it's balanced or not. And if not, what/how could I change to make it so?

[Khutef]

Nothing constructive here, just some thoughts on archetype theme.
This archetype gives me strong vibes about Warhammer 40k Inquisitors.
All I can think about that Final Judgement is: "I order Exterminatus! Burn the heretic and purge the Xenos!"

I wait in anticipation for the final version :).

[Arkhios]

Nothing constructive here, just some thoughts on archetype theme.
This archetype gives me strong vibes about Warhammer 40k Inquisitors.
All I can think about that Final Judgement is: "I order Exterminatus! Burn the heretic and purge the Xenos!"

I wait in anticipation for the final version :).

Heh, I didn't think about that at all. However, since what I have made gave such vibes it means I did at least something right: the Inquisitor has potential for character inspiration!

[Arkhios]

Bumping this up for further ideas, opinions, etc. (also, feedback would be immensely appreciated if someone has used this in their games)

[Llama513]

I really like this idea, and am excited to finally see a inquisitor be made in 5e, I would like to see the versatility of Judgement that the original inquisitor had return beyond that I love this idea, part of me thinks to have the versatile judgements be given at third level, and than renaming what you have as judgement to be Heretic marking, or something like that.

After thinking it over, the versatility of the judgement from Pathfinder does not work thematically for what you are going for with this archetype. What this does make me want to do is design a inquisitor base class.

[Steampunkette]

I like it a lot. Particularly abjuration and divination as the schools. Well done!

The John Constantine class.

[Arkhios]

I like it a lot. Particularly abjuration and divination as the schools. Well done!

The John Constantine class.

Thank you! John Constantine was one of the iconic characters I was aiming to emulate with this!

[Llama513]

I love this archetype, it feels really cool as a divine assassin type character, which is something that we had been missing,

and while it can be a very serious character there is also the hilarious character that comes off of this archetype.

The character that wheres all red, and is Spanish, because nobody expects the Spanish inquisitor

[Arkhios]

Updated the picture, because I found it cool - even though firearms are not allowed in regular D&D

[Llama513]

Updated the picture, because I found it cool - even though firearms are not allowed in regular D&D

The words are shifted way off to the side not sure if that's just me, I have refreshed the page and it still looks weird

[Arkhios]

The words are shifted way off to the side not sure if that's just me, I have refreshed the page and it still looks weird

Nope, looking fine from here. Something's wrong with your browser

[Llama513]

Nope, looking fine from here. Something's wrong with your browser

Its weird, it is messed up on chrome but when I look at it in Firefox it is fine

[Ugganaut]

Glad John Constantine was mentioned, I'm not familiar with this theme in previous editions.

Inquisition/Judgment: The only thing I find really lacking here is flavor text. How does this ability manifest itself? A general denouncement, a brief incantation, or a silent focus?

Greater Judgment: This is the only one I thought was slightly under-powered, only because it requires the enemy are hidden, which many enemies won't be. Therefore its usefulness is limited by what the DM puts in your path. I'd add something small, and a bit broader to round it out. Going by the capstone, I'd probably go with "you are considered proficient in Knowledge checks against creatures". I don't know how to word it, but the check you make to see what you know of monsters. That way if you haven't been able to invest in Arcana/Nature, you have a better basic understanding of various monsters. You could limit it further by specifically stating the types of creatures this applies to instead of "creatures". Or even just advantage to the Religion checks you gained proficiency in at lvl 3.

Final Judgment: 18d6 minimum is brutal(or (9d6 x2). I don't have enough experience to know if its too strong, but comparing it to that Open Hand capstone, seems fine. This is the first time I think seeing fiends or undead aside from the religion skill. I got a shock when I read this, it came out of nowhere. That's why I'm glad JC was mentioned. The initial description gave me more a "hunt down the heretics" vibe. I'd like to see the archtype explained a little better, for people like me that aren't familiar with it.

I think its really well balanced, great job, and thanks for the share.

[Arkhios]

Glad John Constantine was mentioned, I'm not familiar with this theme in previous editions.

Inquisition/Judgment: The only thing I find really lacking here is flavor text. How does this ability manifest itself? A general denouncement, a brief incantation, or a silent focus?

Greater Judgment: This is the only one I thought was slightly under-powered, only because it requires the enemy are hidden, which many enemies won't be. Therefore its usefulness is limited by what the DM puts in your path. I'd add something small, and a bit broader to round it out. Going by the capstone, I'd probably go with "you are considered proficient in Knowledge checks against creatures". I don't know how to word it, but the check you make to see what you know of monsters. That way if you haven't been able to invest in Arcana/Nature, you have a better basic understanding of various monsters. You could limit it further by specifically stating the types of creatures this applies to instead of "creatures". Or even just advantage to the Religion checks you gained proficiency in at lvl 3.

Final Judgment: 18d6 minimum is brutal(or (9d6 x2). I don't have enough experience to know if its too strong, but comparing it to that Open Hand capstone, seems fine. This is the first time I think seeing fiends or undead aside from the religion skill. I got a shock when I read this, it came out of nowhere. That's why I'm glad JC was mentioned. The initial description gave me more a "hunt down the heretics" vibe. I'd like to see the archtype explained a little better, for people like me that aren't familiar with it.

I think its really well balanced, great job, and thanks for the share.

Good points and great ideas all over.
I had intended to add flavor texts but I must admit I forgot! Sorry for the convenience!
I'll do that when I'm able. I'm currently on my smartphone, and you know how painful it is, right...

You're right, I should probably add some ribbon-esque features for checks related with certain creatures, and maybe religions, cults, and the occult.

Assassin rogue gets a very similar capstone, except that an assassin's version can be a critical hit, potentially dealing twice the normal damage (which may be double damage already!), including the damage from sneak attack, so I think that Final Judgment is rather weak in comparison (as incredible as it may sound).

Assassin may potentially deal an average of 140 (40d6) damage with sneak attack alone, plus whatever they get from a weapon, while a Final Judgment will only ever reach an average of 70 (20d6) damage.

[Ugganaut]

I wouldn't even attempt this stuff on a phone :)

I've only tried to make up a couple archetypes, and I find it difficult to balance, especially the later stuff which I haven't had a chance to play yet.
I think Final Judgment is only weaker in certain situations/games. Death Strike requires surprise(and a hit), which is a pretty stiff requirement imo, but has no limit. Final Judgment has the advantage of "anytime", making it a lot more versatile, but is limited to 1/long rest. In our games, the DM doesn't always make it obvious who the most dangerous enemy is, so waiting to see who before choosing the Judgment target is something I'd prefer. And the "no hit" requirement, even though the Assassin should hit with advantage. I think the addition of the insta-kill against fiends and undead makes up for anything lacking.

The only other very minor thing I'd suggest is the order of features. Looking at things like Arcane Trickster and Assassin, the level 3 ability sets up the theme of the archetype. In this case, its Judgment. Inquisitive and Swashbuckler give similar things at lvl 3, so moving Judgment to first cab off the rank shouldn't be OP. Maybe keep Religion at 3, but move advantage Investigation/Insight to lvl 9. Which does make sense, as the advantage suggests you are very well practiced at that skill. You could still add the "prof to monster knowledge checks" at 9th, make it a very skill orientated feature.

Just some thoughts.

Edit: Actually I wouldn't compare it to Death Strike, as Inquisitor is a caster subclass. Arcane Trickster is what you'd have to balance it against.

[Arkhios]

Good idea, I'll swap Judgment to 3rd level, remove the Divine Favor from their spells known (since it serves no purpose if you have a similar yet stronger ability with Judgment), and move skill features up to 9th level.

Would you consider it too strong if Judgment would make damage with your non-magical weapons count as magical?

Also, would you consider it too strong if Final Judgment had no long-rest-limit, as Judgments themselves can only be used a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier per long rest, giving you some reason to think carefully when to use it?

The only reason why I compare Final Judgment with Death Strike is because I modeled Final Judgment from it. But true, I should compare the overall balance with Arcane Trickster.

[Ugganaut]

Would you consider it too strong if Judgment would make damage with your non-magical weapons count as magical?

I think its too much as most things like that happen a bit later, although not to much at 9th or 13th. Gives Judgment more progression too which is nice. Fits best with Greater Judgment.

Also, would you consider it too strong if Final Judgment had no long-rest-limit, as Judgments themselves can only be used a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier per long rest, giving you some reason to think carefully when to use it?

Yes, mainly due to already having spells. Spell Thief is 1/long rest, so its more balanced with that.

[Arkhios]

I think its too much as most things like that happen a bit later, although not to much at 9th or 13th. Gives Judgment more progression too which is nice. Fits best with Greater Judgment.

Hmm, yes. It does make sense that the judgment would grow in power. Consider it done.

Yes, mainly due to already having spells. Spell Thief is 1/long rest, so its more balanced with that.

Fair enough. 1/long rest it is.

Updated the first post, and more importantly, the Homebrewery file, which is just leagues better medium to do these things. Check it out and let's hear what you guys think of it now.

[Ugganaut]

I've been using the Homebrew page, much easier :)

Where did the medium armor come from? Sneaky armor proficiency :P

Occult Lore: Are all fiends and undead covered under the Religion skill for knowledge checks? If no, then I think "considered proficient on knowledge checks related to fiends and undead" would be better. If yes, then "you can add double your proficiency bonus when making monster knowledge checks related to fiends and undead". Or, if no, just add the other skill that does cover them, like Arcana.
A bit vague. "to recognize heretics". I'm not even sure what to suggest. To see through disguises or deception? I think you need to be a bit more specific, like the Inquistive features.
Do you think giving advantage to multiple skills on a class that has expertise in 4 skills at this stage, is too much? I honestly don't know.
Sidenote: "related with fiends", related to fiends.

Greater Judgment: I'm assuming the disadvantage/advantage is related only to hidden/invisible? The wording seems vague.
1 - "While its hidden or invisible you are aware of its location". On another plane? It sounds like you want to give the Inquisitor the effects of See Invisibility verse Judgment targets. But knowing the location of Hidden creatures is a bit different to seeing invisible, because hidden can be behind a wall moving quietly, where invisibility is purely visual.
2 - "Advantage on Intelligence checks to know a creatures abilities", sounds like a Monster Knowledge check. But the way its worded makes it sound like you can know a humans class abilities for example. Its probably just that I'm a bit noobish with the finer details of these things. If its not crystal clear I get lost easy :P
Maybe a neater way to say it would be "You can perceive the target of your Judgment as though under the effects of the See Invisible spell. Also, you have advantage on Wisdom(Perception and Survival) checks related to finding your target."

Sorry if I'm being really picky Arkhios. Not trying to be a douche.

Edit: Forgot to mention See Invisible helps with ethereal stuff like certain undead. Seems to fit, but don't know previous versions as i said.

[Arkhios]

Where did the medium armor come from? Sneaky armor proficiency :P

I dunno! *whistling ominously, evading the subject*
Seriously though, it was more of an experiment, to probe opinions and reactions to it, and also because I see Inquisitors as part of the clergy I thought they could have nearly same proficiencies as clerics.
I guess it'll vanish as soon as it appeared. Dem Ninja skillz!

Occult Lore: Are all fiends and undead covered under the Religion skill for knowledge checks? If no, then I think "considered proficient on knowledge checks related to fiends and undead" would be better. If yes, then "you can add double your proficiency bonus when making monster knowledge checks related to fiends and undead". Or, if no, just add the other skill that does cover them, like Arcana.
A bit vague. "to recognize heretics". I'm not even sure what to suggest. To see through disguises or deception? I think you need to be a bit more specific, like the Inquistive features.
Do you think giving advantage to multiple skills on a class that has expertise in 4 skills at this stage, is too much? I honestly don't know.
Sidenote: "related with fiends", related to fiends.

Inhabitants of planes of existence (e.g. fiends) are covered by arcana, but I'm not sure about undead. Previously they've been covered by religion, but religion doesn't say a thing about that now. Should I assume that all undead are, in fact, considered as inhabitants of shadowfell, since there are a lot of undead creatures. In that case Arcana would cover it as well.

There are no "knowledge" checks per se. All skill checks are in the format: Ability (skill) checks. In this case it would be Intelligence (arcana/nature/religion etc). It's also quite different to add your proficiency bonus to all intelligence checks and to apply your proficiency bonus to a handful of intelligence checks related to specific area. It was intentional to have the advantages cover only a few articles instead of everything. I guess it could be said more clearly though.

There's quite a bit of precedency to vague checks throughout 5th edition. Those checks to reveal heretics etc. were meant to be ribbons - abilities that have little to no mechanical use, and a more flavorful purpose, but in the hands of a skilled DM they could still make a difference.

Greater Judgment: I'm assuming the disadvantage/advantage is related only to hidden/invisible? The wording seems vague.

Yes, intent was that it would relate to being hidden/invisible only.

1 - "While its hidden or invisible you are aware of its location". On another plane? It sounds like you want to give the Inquisitor the effects of See Invisibility verse Judgment targets. But knowing the location of Hidden creatures is a bit different to seeing invisible, because hidden can be behind a wall moving quietly, where invisibility is purely visual.

I tried to draw a picture that the judgment's "branding" effect would register on inquisitors senses, giving somewhat supernatural hunch where their target might be, even if they lack visual. In a way, yes, it was modeled from See Invisibility, but I tried to make it feel like a bit more special. Maybe it ended up too much so.

2 - "Advantage on Intelligence checks to know a creatures abilities", sounds like a Monster Knowledge check. But the way its worded makes it sound like you can know a humans class abilities for example. Its probably just that I'm a bit noobish with the finer details of these things. If its not crystal clear I get lost easy :P

Yeah, I realized it could be part of Inquisition after all. My intent was, that the Inquisitor could recall the creature traits better with the connection provided by judgment.

Maybe a neater way to say it would be "You can perceive the target of your Judgment as though under the effects of the See Invisible spell. Also, you have advantage on Wisdom(Perception and Survival) checks related to finding your target."

Could be. I'll see what I can do about it once I'm able.

Sorry if I'm being really picky Arkhios. Not trying to be a douche.

None taken, I try to be "professional" about it. :P
Reasonable/constructive criticism is always welcome. Without it, it would be impossible for me to see all nyances all by myself.

Edit: Forgot to mention See Invisible helps with ethereal stuff like certain undead. Seems to fit, but don't know previous versions as i said.

Yes, I think I'll have to re-model that ability.

The Inquisitor from Pathfinder RPG only serves as an inspiration, but aside from Judgment and sub-class name, most of this is my own invention, for good or bad :P

[Ugganaut]

Seriously though, it was more of an experiment, to probe opinions and reactions to it, and also because I see Inquisitors as part of the clergy I thought they could have nearly same proficiencies as clerics.

Rogues are dex based, I can't imagine many using medium armor. Breastplate is probably the best bet, thats 14+2Dex. So if your Dex is under 18 I can see the use. I don't think its OP, unless there is a medium armor that can benefit a rogue more than it should.

There are no "knowledge" checks per se. All skill checks are in the format: Ability (skill) checks. In this case it would be Intelligence (arcana/nature/religion etc). It's also quite different to add your proficiency bonus to all intelligence checks and to apply your proficiency bonus to a handful of intelligence checks related to specific area. It was intentional to have the advantages cover only a few articles instead of everything. I guess it could be said more clearly though.

Not sure if its official, but our group uses the term Monster Knowledge checks, which is an Intelligence check with proficiency if you have training in an appropriate skill. So if you are considered proficient in Monster Knowledge checks, you add prof bonus to any Intelligence checks to determine what you know of a monster's strengths and weaknesses. If its not official, it should be :)

There's quite a bit of precedency to vague checks throughout 5th edition. Those checks to reveal heretics etc. were meant to be ribbons - abilities that have little to no mechanical use, and a more flavorful purpose, but in the hands of a skilled DM they could still make a difference.

Was never a fan of vague. I prefer the way the Inquisitive was worded, where it was clear what the bonuses applied to. Personal choice I guess. I think well worded rules can save a lot of issues at the game table.

I tried to draw a picture that the judgment's "branding" effect would register on inquisitors senses, giving somewhat supernatural hunch where their target might be, even if they lack visual. In a way, yes, it was modeled from See Invisibility, but I tried to make it feel like a bit more special. Maybe it ended up too much so.

Knowing where a creature is means you can target it if its hidden, and don't have to guess the square - which is what you're describing. But the advantage/disadvantage is usually because you can see it(even an outline would do). You might know exactly where someone is, but if they're invisible you can't see the sword coming down, and therefore can't defend as effectively. You could make the ability function like See Invisible, but make it a feature with its own flavor text. The difference being, its then not a spell, and therefore can't be dispelled. Also makes it more unique, and you can flavor it to fit your image. The reason I added the Perception in my suggestion, was that even if you can See Invisible, that doesn't mean you can see Hidden. So your "homing" flavor would come from that as well, you have advantage to find them. Pretty much the rider on Hunter's Mark now that I think of it :) Which sounds like it fits.
Or you could say the brand is physical, like faerie fire, and they don't benefit at all from invisibility. Wouldn't add the advantage to hit though.

None taken, I try to be "professional" about it. :P

:D

[Arkhios]

As far as I know there are no definitive monster knowledge DC's, and they're mostly up to DM to decide.

That's not to say there couldn't be such a system if there's a demand for it.

However, when I make homebrews, I try to remain consistent with the rules in PHB, and not assume whether some optional rule is in effect or not. That way, whatever I design, I think they could be used with any rules.

[Ugganaut]

True, trail blaze ahead good sir :)