# Thread: Got any Dice Questions?

1. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

I need to generate a random number between 6 and 14 preferably with a bell curve. Can you help?

2. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

3d3+5? That ought to do it.

Also, the tri-color Q-Workshop dice look very cool. I've always thought their dice were too busy, too hard to read, but those look very legible.

3. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

4d3+2

Should do it...

(^ The only problem with 3d3+5 is the minimum's 8 intead of six)

4. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Originally Posted by Kevin_Cook
I can say there are couple of companies ... that produced nothing but poor quality dice

Diamond Dice had a good mold ... but used low cost materials

Jerry Alexander ... just look for yourself [/color]
I can attest to the Diamond Dice thing... they suck bad! They were to light due to the cheap cheap cheap plastic, and the points and edges were sharp. There were 3 bleeding injuries caused by them, 2 from just grabbing quickly, and one I threw at a player!

5. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Originally Posted by Kantur
4d3+2

Should do it...

(^ The only problem with 3d3+5 is the minimum's 8 intead of six)
Yeah, that works. That's what I get for trying to do math first thing in the morning. Though the bell on that would be pretty tight. 2d5+4 (where 2d5 is 1d10/2+1d10/2, not 2d10/2) would give a more gentle curve and still fit the range.

6. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Originally Posted by Chronos
Ah, you're using the term "unbalanced" in a different sense than I was interpreting it. The test you describe would be for determining if the moments of inertia along the principle axes are the same, but I'm just referring to the fact that on my die, not all of the faces have the same probability (which is possible even if the die has a balanced moment of inertia). As in, over something like 500 test rolls, it's come up 20 only three times.
I have a vague memory... hold on....

Yes. There is it. Chi-square tests for 'fair' die analysis. It was in an old Dragon magazine (#78). As I understand it, it examines the eveness of a distribution of numbers. The math is based on advanced statistics that is beyond me, and the test is tedious to perform. Very likely someone here has a better grasp of the math than I do and can comment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson...hi-square_test

7. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Do defective dice count toward your totals? I have several d6 that have additional 1 sides instead of 3's and/or 5's.

8. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Originally Posted by Jack Zander
I need to generate a random number between 6 and 14 preferably with a bell curve. Can you help?
As stated above

4d3+2 & 2d5+4 (using either d10 or d5) can do it ...

Here are some others

d9 + d2 + 4 (yes there are fair d9 ... this one or this one and this one are all fair)
d8 + d3 + 4
d7 + d4 + 4
d6 + d5 + 4

d7 + 2d2 + 3
d6 + d3 + d2 + 3
d5 + 2d3 + 3
2d4 + d3 + 3

< See the pattern? >

Here is another ... but with no curve as it is only 1 die

d9+5

Originally Posted by KoDT69
I can attest to the Diamond Dice thing... they suck bad! They were to light due to the cheap cheap cheap plastic, and the points and edges were sharp. There were 3 bleeding injuries caused by them, 2 from just grabbing quickly, and one I threw at a player!
They also have the annoying feature of not having opposing sides add to n+1 (where n is the number of sides on the die)

9. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Originally Posted by Kevin_Cook
It should not take long ... all that has to be done is multiply the # of sides times the number of dice of that number of sides then sum the totals of all the different sided dice

If anyone cares to use a bit outdated data ... feel free to use THIS page do it
Ok, so here is what I got:
172 265

10. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Thanks guys. I like the 2d5+4 method. I'm looking for a more gentler curve.

11. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Two dice doesn't give you a curve at all; it gives you a triangle function. If you want a Gaussian (the classic "bell curve"), use as many dice as possible.

12. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

So wouldn't 4d3+2 be the best bet? Has the most dice in it of any combination I can think of.

13. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

The tightness of a curve is usually measured by the standard deviation.

As you use more dice, ratio between the spread of values and the standard deviation grows.

So "just use more dice" is not the right answer....

3d6 and 5d4-2 have the same min and the same max, but the curve on the 5d4 is tighter than the 3d6 case: 5d4 has a lower standard deviation than 3d6.

The 5d4 curve is also "smoother" in a sense, but the effect of the tightness of the curve has a larger impact on probabilities than the smoothness of the curve.

If you plot a cumulative distribution of dice probabilities (the % chance that the die roll is X or lower), and then fix the average and scale horizontally by the standard deviation of each roll, you end up with an interesting result.

First, that rolling 1 die looks way different than rolling 2 dice.

But once you roll 2 dice, the histograms start looking really really similar. Except that the more dice you have, the "longer the tail" of the distribution -- the curve at each "end" of the distribution changes far more than the curve around the middle.

Now, this isn't to say that adding more dice doesn't matter. It does: it changes the standard deviation. You can look at the standard deviation as a measure of "how much does a +1 or -1 modifier to the die roll matter".

If you want a "long tail" of stats, if you want to distinguish between two very unlikely events with lots of precision ("oh, that was a 1 in a million, while that was a 1 in 10,000, and the other was 1 in a billion"), you need more dice.

If you want to change the magnitude of modifiers to your roll, adding more dice makes each modifier have a larger impact on the relative "likelyness" of the result. Having fewer dice scales it down.

Another way you can do this is by increasing the size of the dice. The larger the size of the dice involved, the less each +1/-1 matters.

(2d3-4 has an average of 0. Adding +1 modifier has a huge impact on the result. 2d100-101 has an average of 0. Adding a +1 modifier is pointless, even though it boosts the average up to 1.)

Hope that helps. :)

14. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Roughly how difficult is it to find d3's? I mean, either a d6 with two 1's, two 2's and two 3's, or a three sided die. I've only seen one d6 with only 1, 2 and 3 on it...damn you Rhys.

15. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Originally Posted by SoD
Roughly how difficult is it to find d3's? I mean, either a d6 with two 1's, two 2's and two 3's, or a three sided die. I've only seen one d6 with only 1, 2 and 3 on it...damn you Rhys.

16. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Huh. I was just going to ask if d5s exist, but it looks like I don't have to.

Would braille dice be possible for the blind, or would the bumps make them not work correctly?

17. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Also, how much could I expect it to cost to have d3's shipped to Finland? Or Australia?

I'm an Australian in Finland, so they could either get sent here, or to Australia and forwarded on.

18. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Originally Posted by Wooter
Huh. I was just going to ask if d5s exist, but it looks like I don't have to.
Yep ... they do indeed exist

Any time you are trying to find if a SHAPE/# of sides of die exists ... THIS is your best place to look

Would braille dice be possible for the blind, or would the bumps make them not work correctly?
Not if they are done line THIS (leftmost die)

Originally Posted by SoD
Also, how much could I expect it to cost to have d3's shipped to Finland? Or Australia?

I'm an Australian in Finland, so they could either get sent here, or to Australia and forwarded on.
I know they ship international ... I cant quote you a price though ... best bet is to ask

19. ## November 2007 Highlights

If you are not interested in new or rare dice that were inventoried this month ... Ignore this post

Click on the 22000th die in the collection (above)
for highlights of dice added in November 2007

I have almost competed all the sets of MTG Spindowns
and am now offering bonuses for both trades and sales ...
HERE is what I have / need ... just 8 left

As always ...
If you have any dice questions ...
post them to this thread and I will try to answer them for you

20. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

How well balanced are d5s like this? I've been wondering this for some time, and only just now found this thread.

21. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Do you know when the q-workshop tri-color dice are going to be available, or where I could get them now? Also, in your opinion, how cool are their glow in the dark dice?

22. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Originally Posted by [Insert Neat Username Here]
How well balanced are d5s like this? I've been wondering this for some time, and only just now found this thread.
THAT particular die is not accurate at all ... but the Gamescience D5 was tested and properly proportioned to roll each side ... close enough for gaming purposes

Originally Posted by Blasterfire
Do you know when the q-workshop tri-color dice are going to be available, or where I could get them now? Also, in your opinion, how cool are their glow in the dark dice?
It is my understanding that they are available now ... as Q-W has to meet their obligations to Alliance ... so they could be in your FLGS soon

I do note that they are not available on their website though :(

23. ## December 2007 Highlights

If you are not interested in new or rare dice that were inventoried this month ...

Click on Eric Krusenstjerna's (of Krusen CNC TECH Inc) custom die above
for highlights of dice added in December 2007

I have almost competed all the sets of MTG Spindowns
and am still offering bonuses for both trades and sales ...

HERE is what I have / need ... just 7 left

As always ...
If you have any dice questions ...
post them to this thread and I will try to answer them for you

24. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

For dice with a ridiculous number of sides, does it get hard to figure out exactly which side is the one facing up?

How do you make dice accurate when they have differently shaped and differently sized faces (ie d5s and d7s)?

25. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Originally Posted by Patashu
For dice with a ridiculous number of sides, does it get hard to figure out exactly which side is the one facing up?
Define ridiculous ... I dont find D100's hard to read ... but others do ... the D120 I made is hard though

How do you make dice accurate when they have differently shaped and differently sized faces (ie d5s and d7s)?
Shape has a lot to do with it ... but bottom line ... as long as the rolling statistics are pretty even ... that is all that counts ... for the TYPICAL D5 and D7 ... the shape had to be manipulated in order to force the rolls to come out even

26. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Alright, So I actually joined the forums just to ask this question...

I have always found the D100 to be difficult to tell which number is up, or at least the few i have personally rolled. My question is this; Would a transparent D100 filled 'nearly' with water, allowing for a bubble to form at the top-most number, still be a relatively fair-rolling die? I wasn't sure if the shifting weight of the water would dramatically impact the fairness or not. Probably a bit of a noob question, i realize, but i really know very little about this kind of stuff.

PS: Yeah, your D120 looked even harder to read than the D100's usually are for me. It's a beautiful model though.

PSS: I noticed awhile ago, while I was reading the whole thread, but I forgot that I wanted to say something. Your avatar is pretty awesome, I had to give it a second look.

27. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

I have only one question - Why...?

28. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Originally Posted by Nocturnum
Alright, So I actually joined the forums just to ask this question...
Cool ... welcome

I have always found the D100 to be difficult to tell which number is up, or at least the few i have personally rolled. My question is this; Would a transparent D100 filled 'nearly' with water, allowing for a bubble to form at the top-most number, still be a relatively fair-rolling die? I wasn't sure if the shifting weight of the water would dramatically impact the fairness or not. Probably a bit of a noob question, i realize, but i really know very little about this kind of stuff.
LOL ... I actually discussed this with Louis Zocchi ... the owner of Gamescience and inventor of the D100 ... I think we concluded that the idea is feasable .. and should not effect the roll ... the problem is ... manufacturing ... 1) the inner and outer shells of the D100 are not watertight ... and current manufacturing processes wont allow there to be water inside (the die is sonically fused) 2) the process that would be invoved in getting the exact amount into the die would cause the die to greatly increase in price

It is a good idea though ... I thought of it when I first found out that Magic 8 Balls had dice inside

PS: Yeah, your D120 looked even harder to read than the D100's usually are for me. It's a beautiful model though.
Thanks!

PSS: I noticed awhile ago, while I was reading the whole thread, but I forgot that I wanted to say something. Your avatar is pretty awesome, I had to give it a second look.
Thanks ... it has evolved over the years ... into its final config you now see

Originally Posted by Gorbash
I have only one question - Why...?
Why what?

29. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

"LOL ... I actually discussed this with Louis Zocchi ... the owner of Gamescience and inventor of the D100 ... I think we concluded that the idea is feasable .. and should not effect the roll ... the problem is ... manufacturing ... 1) the inner and outer shells of the D100 are not watertight ... and current manufacturing processes wont allow there to be water inside (the die is sonically fused) 2) the process that would be invoved in getting the exact amount into the die would cause the die to greatly increase in price

It is a good idea though ... I thought of it when I first found out that Magic 8 Balls had dice inside"

Well, to be honest, I don't quite understand the reason behind the two-shells. And yeah, I figured that the manufacturing methods would negate the ability to do that, but I thought I would ask anyway. That's funny though, that's what I was thinking about when I thought of it as well.

I have some more questions though.

I have been looking at doubled dice (dice with smaller dice inside) and I was wondering if you have ever seen any with, for example, a D4 inside a D6? The only ones I have seen are just a D6 inside a D6...I could see these being fun to use, but I don't always have a need to roll two dice of the same number of sides.

My last question, for now, is simply a matter of preference. Since you are so familiar with dice, I was wondering if you prefer a particular resolution system. I know you said you don't game much anymore, but when you did...did you just use the D20 linear system? or did you play around with other, less-known resolution systems? As a gamer, I'm open to play nearly anything, but as a GM...I like to do everything entirely from scratch. I've spent a bit more time on the logistics of my newest game, and I've decided that the old system I was using wasn't realistic enough for my tastes. Hence, my question; What is your favorite resolution system, and why?

PS: I think it's cool that you don't mind just hanging out with us 'non-record holders' and you don't mind answering dumb questions from us :)

30. ## Re: Got any Dice Questions?

Originally Posted by Nocturnum
Well, to be honest, I don't quite understand the reason behind the two-shells.
I need to take pictures of one disassembled ... so it will be clear

The outer shell is clear ... and has the extension member facets (faces) ... the inner shell is opaque (usually ) and has the indicia ( numbers) printed on it ... it is held in place by 2 pins that prevent the inner shell from rotating and thus misaligning the numbers

I have been looking at doubled dice (dice with smaller dice inside) and I was wondering if you have ever seen any with, for example, a D4 inside a D6? The only ones I have seen are just a D6 inside a D6...I could see these being fun to use, but I don't always have a need to roll two dice of the same number of sides.
No ... I have not seen such a thing ... perhaps you should suggest it to Koplow ( the maker of the majority of double dice)

I just thought of another idea ... a D20 ... with damage dice inside ... so it becomes both hit and damage in one roll

My last question, for now, is simply a matter of preference. Since you are so familiar with dice, I was wondering if you prefer a particular resolution system. I know you said you don't game much anymore, but when you did...did you just use the D20 linear system? or did you play around with other, less-known resolution systems? As a gamer, I'm open to play nearly anything, but as a GM...I like to do everything entirely from scratch. I've spent a bit more time on the logistics of my newest game, and I've decided that the old system I was using wasn't realistic enough for my tastes. Hence, my question; What is your favorite resolution system, and why?
GREAT QUESTION ... I prefer percentage based systems as they are more readily understood ... and have finer granualrity ...

D20 is 5% granularity (100/20) ... whereas % based is 1%

PS: I think it's cool that you don't mind just hanging out with us 'non-record holders' and you don't mind answering dumb questions from us :)
LOL ... the only difference between a record holder and a non record holder is ... the non record holder knows when to quit ... where as the record holder is too dumb / stubborn ... to do so :)