Multiclass Archetypes PEACH

[CunningKindred]

Every since I first read the 5E multiclass rules I've been considering the possibility of multiclassed archetypes. These would be archetypes that would replace the usual class-specific archetypes for a particular type of multiclass option and allow a character to gain a better fusion of the two classes. Essentially, it would allow the GM to better control the merging of the two classes and so allow for the more general restrictions on multiclassing to be relaxed a little since the combinations are known upfront and not decided by the player.

I've now started writing a few of these and I thought I'd run them past you good folk. Attached you will find:

The Fochlucan Lyrist - a Druid / Bard multiclass
The Ultimate Magus - a Sorcerer / Wizard multiclass
The Chosen of Magic - a Sorcerer /Warlock multiclass
The College Patron - a Bard / Warlock multiclass
The Darksoul Delver - a Rogue / Warlock multiclass
The Untamed Savage - a Barbarian / Fighter multiclass

25/11/2016 - added the following

The Arcane Trickster - a variant that allows the Arcane Trickster to properly exploit mult-iclassing
The Eldritch Knight - the same for the Eldritch Knight

26/11/2016 - added The Demonblade - a Warlock / Fighter multiclass and updated the Darksoul Delver to more accurately represent the nature of spell progression for multiclassed characters

28/11/2016 - added the Reclusive Mystic - a Druid / Monk multiclass
28/11/2016 - added Way of the Shrouded Fist - a Monk / Rogue multiclass


30/11/2016 - some miscellaneous tweaks to the Demonblade and the change of name to The Shrouded Way for the Monk/Rogue hybrid

The Multiclass Options: Multiclass Archetypes

Have moved the miscellaneous options to: https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6omqwl5c3...12016.pdf?dl=0

[Squiddish]

I personally like these, as they give much more depth to multiclassing, and give much better fluff (and crunch) for multiclassed mages.

I'll note that you need to be very wary about allowing access to higher level spells, since that's supposed to be one of the major disadvantages. However, that is also what makes these archetypes so unique. The reduced cantrips is a fairly good disadvantage under some conditions, but it's meaningless if you take a level of wizard followed by a level of sorcerer.
EDIT: Actually, looking back I saw that it wasn't as bad as I thought, the higher level abilities make up for it without worsening the flavor.

If you're taking suggestions, bard/warlock or fighter/barbarian might be good as the next combos to pursue.

[Jamgretter]

These are really cool, with one issue I notice. The items the druid/bard and sorcerer/warlock aren't explained.They just happen and give benefits, what do you do if it's destroyed or you lose it? This also means you can't use a special spell focus like a wand of the warmage. I'd let them recreate it as a ritual, and turn a focus into these special focuses as a ritual.

[CunningKindred]

Thanks for the feedback.

I've done some updates. I've separated out the miscellaneous homebrew stuff into a separate file.

If you're taking suggestions, bard/warlock or fighter/barbarian might be good as the next combos to pursue.

You will find the College Patron (a Bard/Warlock cross) and the Untamed Savage (a Barbarian/Fighter cross) and my favourite so far in the document along with a Warlock /Rogue cross. I would love to know what you think.

The Multiclass Options: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bn198csj0t...12016.pdf?dl=0

Have moved the miscellaneous options to: https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6omqwl5c3...12016.pdf?dl=0

[CunningKindred]

I had an idea for expanding the Arcane Trickster as a Rogue / Wizard multiclass option and the Eldritch Knight as a Fighter / Wizard option, allowing them to better exploit the mutli-classing system but while remaining completely backward compatible. I thought I'd see what people think?

Multiclass Archetypes

[CunningKindred]

Have added another option:

The Demonblade - a Warlock / Fighter multiclass that can be taken as a standard Fighter archetype

I have also tweaked the Darksoul Delver to be slightly smoother in terms of spell progression.

[NightDweller]

Do you have plans for a Druid/Monk?

[CunningKindred]

Do you have plans for a Druid/Monk?

I shall give it some thought. I suppose a monk who retires to the wilderness to avoid distractions and draws on the power of nature to enhance his Ki. I haven't done much with the monk yet as its quite a complicated class. Could be an interesting challenge.

[CunningKindred]

Have added the Reclusive Mystic to the document. As requested, a monk/druid multiclass. Not an easy fusion mechanically. Those two classes are really at odds with each other. This option seems markedly better than the elemental archetype under monk but it follows the same mechanics as the other builds and at this moment I'm thinking it might be ok. Not really sure. I'll see what you all think.

Multiclass Archetypes

[JBPuffin]

This is...a wonderful yet bizarre use of archetypes. I'll want to do some testing with this at some point. In the meantime, I'd take a look at some of Pathfinder's hybrid classes for inspiration. Their Barbarian/Sorcerer is great.

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There's this thing I've been working on which I offer up to be fused with things. Any of the primal classes could cross with this flavor-wise...not sure how the progression would end up, though .

[NightDweller]

Have added the Reclusive Mystic to the document. As requested, a monk/druid multiclass. Not an easy fusion mechanically. Those two classes are really at odds with each other. This option seems markedly better than the elemental archetype under monk but it follows the same mechanics as the other builds and at this moment I'm thinking it might be ok. Not really sure. I'll see what you all think.

Multiclass Archetypes

It is very good IMO.

I had an idea for a mixture of the Assassin Rouge and the Shadow Monk to make a Shinobi-esque (aka Ninja-esque) class if you are interested.

[CunningKindred]

I had an idea for a mixture of the Assassin Rouge and the Shadow Monk to make a Shinobi-esque (aka Ninja-esque) class if you are interested.

It would seem great minds think alike. I've been working on a rogue / monk idea for a few days but it wasn't until I delved into the monk to do the Reclusive Mystic that I found a connection or two in the two classes that would allow for a merging. So, I've added The Way of the Shrouded Fist to the document. Its very similar to what you suggested.

[Sicarius Victis]

I'd just like to point out that the Demonblade's Expanded Spell List is wrong. True Strike is a Cantrip, not a 1st-level, and Haste is 3rd-level, not 4th.

[NightDweller]

It would seem great minds think alike. I've been working on a rogue / monk idea for a few days but it wasn't until I delved into the monk to do the Reclusive Mystic that I found a connection or two in the two classes that would allow for a merging. So, I've added The Way of the Shrouded Fist to the document. Its very similar to what you suggested.

Indeed, the only part I dislike it the name. As an assassin like this archetype would certainly not be using the fist but rather the dagger, shortsword, hand-crossbow, and things like that.

Perhaps the phrase "Shadow Warrior" might make more sense?

In any case this is a nitpick at best.

[NightDweller]

I was hoping to start a recruitment thread later today to playtest some of these archetypes in a game.

Is that okay with you?

[CunningKindred]

I'd just like to point out that the Demonblade's Expanded Spell List is wrong. True Strike is a Cantrip, not a 1st-level, and Haste is 3rd-level, not 4th.

Thanks for this. I'll fix it with the next update.

Indeed, the only part I dislike it the name. As an assassin like this archetype would certainly not be using the fist but rather the dagger, shortsword, hand-crossbow, and things like that.

Perhaps the phrase "Shadow Warrior" might make more sense?

I had a similar issue with the name but I was trying to conform to the "Way of the ..." method used by the monk. I liked shrouded but didn't like weapon, dagger or knife as the follow up. I'll give it some more thought.

I was hoping to start a recruitment thread later today to playtest some of these archetypes in a game.

Is that okay with you?

Of course. It would be awesome to get some feedback from actual play.

[NightDweller]

Here is a link to the campaign I am starting for it.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...5#post21437865

[Sicarius Victis]

I had a similar issue with the name but I was trying to conform to the "Way of the ..." method used by the monk. I liked shrouded but didn't like weapon, dagger or knife as the follow up. I'll give it some more thought.

Could just call it "Way of the Shroud", or something similar.

[NightDweller]

Could just call it "Way of the Shroud", or something similar.

Perhaps the Shrouded Path?

[CunningKindred]

I'm thinking I might just use "The Shrouded Way". Its close to the original "way" scheme and simple.

[Ultra4Life]

I have one question - with the Reclusive Mystic for its Nature's Bounty ability, it says the following for its final tier ability:

"When you become a 3rd level Monk and a 15th level Druid or a 9th level Monk and a 13th level Druid, you gain a 9th level Nature's Bounty. You regain each of your Nature's Bounties when you finish a long rest."

By my math, the second option is impossible in 5e. You'd need to be a level 22 character to take advantage of it. Unless there's recently been rules released for levels beyond 20 that I'm not aware of, in which case disregard this.

Ok, less question more observation but still something worth mentioning.

[CunningKindred]

Thanks for that. I missed it completely.

[Kobard]

Interesting options. There are a few combinations I would not mind seeing you try your hand based on other common or classic multiclass options:
* Paladin / (Draconic) Sorcerer
* Paladin / Bard
* General Cleric / Wizard: classic mystic theurge
* Cleric / Necromancer Wizard: a true master of life and death

[JBPuffin]

I have one question - with the Reclusive Mystic for its Nature's Bounty ability, it says the following for its final tier ability:

"When you become a 3rd level Monk and a 15th level Druid or a 9th level Monk and a 13th level Druid, you gain a 9th level Nature's Bounty. You regain each of your Nature's Bounties when you finish a long rest."

By my math, the second option is impossible in 5e. You'd need to be a level 22 character to take advantage of it. Unless there's recently been rules released for levels beyond 20 that I'm not aware of, in which case disregard this.

Ok, less question more observation but still something worth mentioning.

DMG has epic rules, actually. Check them in the back.

[Sicarius Victis]

Actually, I've been meaning to ask: If you're multiclassed and using oje of these subclasses, does it count as the subclass for BOTH classes, or just one?

Example: For a multiclassed Rogue/Warlock, does Darksoul Delver count as both their Roguish Archetype and their Otherwordly Patron, or just one of those?

[CunningKindred]

Actually, I've been meaning to ask: If you're multiclassed and using oje of these subclasses, does it count as the subclass for BOTH classes, or just one?

Example: For a multiclassed Rogue/Warlock, does Darksoul Delver count as both their Roguish Archetype and their Otherwordly Patron, or just one of those?

It counts as both. By giving up both archetypes you provide the "room" so to speak for the abilities that the multiclass option offers.

[CunningKindred]

Just to let everyone know: I've done an update for the Fochlucan Lyrist - just to take advantage of all the things I've learnt since doing the poor guy. He was the first and I think the new layout and options will allow for a smoother and more fun progression.

* Paladin / (Draconic) Sorcerer
* Paladin / Bard
* General Cleric / Wizard: classic mystic theurge
* Cleric / Necromancer Wizard: a true master of life and death

I will try to look into doing one or more of these in the next few days. I've got some ideas for the Paladin Sorcerer but I am a little concerned about the power level of the cleric / wizard combinations because I think having access to the cleric and wizard spell lists is a little more powerful than the other combinations I've worked with. The two classes are just so different and this potentially introduces a lot of versatility into one character.

[CunningKindred]

Have added the Oath of the Wyrm - a draconic Paladin / Sorcerer multiclass

[Kobard]

I will try to look into doing one or more of these in the next few days. I've got some ideas for the Paladin Sorcerer

Have added the Oath of the Wyrm - a draconic Paladin / Sorcerer multiclass

Thanks.

but I am a little concerned about the power level of the cleric / wizard combinations because I think having access to the cleric and wizard spell lists is a little more powerful than the other combinations I've worked with. The two classes are just so different and this potentially introduces a lot of versatility into one character.

That is a natural concern, and one that I also share, but the "mystic theurge" is a fairly common combo. Of course, it may be easier to simply play either an Arcana cleric or provide a "theurge" tradition for wizards. But I was curious to see your take on this combination. It would probably be more feasible with the Grave/Death/Life Cleric and Necro Wizard as one could limit the spell lists more readily around thematic spells than the more generalist mystic theurge.

[CunningKindred]

I've added a Mystic Theurge for your consideration. This one is really difficult to judge in terms of balance. I'd be interested to hear what people think.