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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default The Forsaker, Loathe is He - a Prestige Class Rework (PEACH)

    After a (very brief) discussion with another forumite, I decided to take a crack at adapting (and improving!) the forsaker to D&D 3.5e. Cues were taken from the lackluster abilities of the original prestige class ("Oh boy, this fast healing 3 to a maximum of 50 hit points per day was totally worth nine levels and forsaking all magic!"), from the ill-fated Spellfire Wielder (who never quite hit the mark), and generic wit.

    This is my first attempt at homebrewing something as major as a prestige class within the grounds of 3.5e, but I'm only going to know how bad things are if I show people the result of my own tinkering first. Comments and criticism welcome, but keep it constructive; insults aren't exactly helpful.

    -----

    The Forsaker
    Magic is evil. Magic tempts. Magic perverts. Magic corrupts. Anyone who cannot embrace these basic truths has no business considering the path of the forsaker.
    The forsaker rebels against the magic of the fantastic world around him. It's not that he doesn't believe in it; he knows full well that magic is real. He has felt its all to tangible power burn over his skin or wrest control of his mind from him. However, while others might ignore the dangers of magic and succumb to its siren call of power, the forsaker stays pure. He rejects sorcery, knowing it to be nothing but a crutch that coddles and weakens its users. In doing so, the forsaker becomes stronger, tougher, smarter, and more nimble than any of his companions - even those who invoke magic to their own selfish ends.


    Requirements
    Base Attack Bonus: +5
    Skills: Spellcraft 4 ranks OR Psicraft 4 ranks.
    Feats: Great Fortitude OR Iron Will OR Lightning Reflexes
    Special: The character must have once been the victim of a magical attack that seriously wounded him or threatened his life. He must also sell, give away, or destroy all his magic items (including magic weapons, armour, and potions) and renounce the use of any spellcasting and spell-like abilities he previously used or had access to.

    Hit Die: D12
    Level Base Attack Bonus Fortitude Save Reflex Save Will Save Special
    1st +1 +2 +2 +2 Ability Bonus +1, SR 12, Fast Healing 1, Forsake Magic, Transparency
    2nd +2 +3 +3 +3 Ability Bonus +1, SR 14, Fast Healing 2, Damage Reduction 3/-, Forsaken Talent
    3rd +3 +3 +3 +3 Ability Bonus +1, SR 16, Fast Healing 3, Tough Defense, Unnatural Weapons
    4th +4 +4 +4 +4 Ability Bonus +1, SR 18, Fast Healing 4, Damage Reduction 6/-, Forsaken Talent
    5th +5 +4 +4 +4 Ability Bonus +1, SR 20, Fast Healing 5, Slippery Mind, Scrutinous Gaze
    6th +6 +5 +5 +5 Ability Bonus +1, SR 22, Fast Healing 6, Damage Reduction 9/-, Forsaken Talent
    7th +7 +5 +5 +5 Ability Bonus +1, SR 24, Fast Healing 7, Haste, Agility
    8th +8 +6 +6 +6 Ability Bonus +1, SR 26, Fast Healing 8, Damage Reduction 12/-, Forsaken Talent
    9th +9 +6 +6 +6 Ability Bonus +1, SR 28, Fast Healing 9, Antimagic Field
    10th +10 +7 +7 +7 Ability Bonus +1, SR 30, Fast Healing 10, Damage Reduction 15/-, Forsaken Talent
    Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level): Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Gather Information, Handle Animal (Wis), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).

    Class Features
    The following are class features of the forsaker prestige class.
    Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Forsakers gain no weapon or armour proficiencies.

    Forsake Magic: In addition to avoiding all use of spellcasting, spell-like abilities, and magic items, the forsaker must also refuse any benefits from others' magic - including magical healing. Thus, he must attempt a saving throw against any spell that allows one. For most beneficial spells, such as displacement or neutralise poison, a successful save negates the spell's effects; for a cure spell, it halves the benefit. If a forsaker fails to do so, he falls, as described below (see Ex-Forsakers).
    A forsaker must maintain his purity and his hatred for magic if he is to continue to hone his craft. As such, at every level, the forsaker must destroy magic items whose combined market prices total at least 1000gp per forsaker level. He cannot progress any further as a forsaker until he does so.

    Transparency: The forsaker always treats magic and psionics as identical. Therefore, his spell resistance also applies to powers, and he can use spellcraft and psicraft interchangably. This effect functions even in settings and campaigns wherein magic-psionics transparency is not present.

    Ability Bonus (Ex): Beginning at 1st level, the forsaker gains a +1 inherent bonus to any desired ability score for each forsaker level he possesses.

    Fast Healing (Ex): The forsaker's body is unnaturally fast to recuperate from damage taken. At 1st level, the forsaker regains a number of hit points per round equal to his Forsaker class level, as per the fast healing ability described in the monster manual.

    Spell Resistance (Ex): At 1st level, the forsaker gains spell resistance equal to 10 + twice his Forsaker class level, up to a maximum of SR 30 at level 10. This stacks with any other applicable spell resistance he has.

    Damage Reduction (Ex): At 2nd level, the forsaker gains damage reduction 3/-. This value rises by 3 for every two forsaker levels he gains thereafter, up to a maximum of DR 15/- at level 10. This does not stack with any other source of damage reduction.

    Forsaken Talent: Every forsaker's aversion to magic manifests in different ways. Beginning at 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter (4, 6, 8, 10), choose a talent for which the forsaker qualifies (see Talents, below).

    Tough Defense (Ex): At 3rd level, a forsaker gains a natural armour bonus equal to his constitution bonus (if any).

    Unnatural Weapons: Beginning at 3rd level, the forsaker can fight as though he and his weapon were one, allowing him to cleave through even the toughest of hides. His attacks with any weapon are always treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 6th level, his attacks are also treated as silver and cold iron. At 9th level, his attacks are also treated as adamantine.

    Slippery Mind (Ex): At 5th level, the forsaker can wriggle free from magical effects that would otherwise control or compel him. He gets the rogue ability slippery mind (PH 51).

    Scrutinous Gaze (Ex): At 5th level, the forsaker becomes immune to all figments and glamers, such as invisibility. In addition, he can see ethereal and incorporeal creatures as if they were corporeal.

    Haste (Ex): At 7th level, the forsaker becomes supernaturally quick. He continually receives the benefits of the haste spell.

    Agility (Ex): At 7th level, the forsaker gains a fly speed of 30ft (Perfect maneuverability). If he does not end his movement on a solid surface which can support him, he falls to the ground but takes no damage.

    Antimagic Field (Ex): At 9th level, the forsaker exerts an antimagic field out to 20ft. He can suppress or enable ability as a free action once per round. This otherwise functions as per the spell.

    Talents
    A forsaker cannot choose a talent more than once. All of these talents are extraordinary abilities unless otherwise stated.
    • Redact: A forsaker with this talent can use his knowledge of magic to disrupt spells as they are being cast. If a forsaker successfully identifies a spell as it is being cast, he can attempt to quell it as an immediate action. The caster of the spell must then make a concentration check (DC 10+the forsaker's class level + the spell's level). On a success, the spell is unaffected. On a failure, the spell is lost and the caster takes damage equal to twice the level of the spell.
    • Drain Magic: A forsaker with this talent can drain magical energy with a touch. By making a successful touch attack as a standard action, the forsaker can produce the effects of a targeted dispel magic effect with a caster level equal to his class level (maximum +10). The forsaker receives a +5 bonus on the dispel check. At 6th level, this improves to a targeted greater dispel magic effect, except that the forsaker's caster level equals twice his class level (maximum +20). At 10th level he may, once per day, cast mage's disjunction targeting a single magical item or character (though he still has to make a successful touch attack).
    • Guarded Mind: A forsaker with this talent becomes more difficult to locate through divinations such as clairaudience/clairvoyance, locate object, and other detection spells. This protection is equivalent to a nondetection spell, with a caster level equal to the forsaker's combined class level and constitution modifier. At 6th level, he instead becomes immune to all divination spells cast against it, and he immediately learns the name, appearance, and location of any spellcaster who attempts to do so.
    • Signature Weapon: A forsaker with this talent can grant one of his weapons powerful antimagic boons. At the start of each day, he selects a number of weapon properties from the following list with a total value equal to half his forsaker level. For the rest of the day, his attacks with one masterwork weapon of his choice are treated as if they have the chosen weapon properties. 1: Dispelling, Ghost Touch, Revealing. 2: Magebane, Psibane, Binding, Incorporeal Binding. 3: Greater Dispelling, Impedance, Mindcrusher. 4: Brilliant Energy.
    • Greater Unnatural Weapons: The forsaker's attacks with any weapon are treated as bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. At 7th level, his attacks are also treated as evil, good, lawful, and chaotic. At 10th level, his attacks are also treated as epic. Minimum level 4th.
    • Resolute: A forsaker with this talent receives the benefits of both evasion and mettle, but only against magical effects. If exposed to any spell or spell-like ability that would normally allow him to attempt a fortitude, reflex, or will save for a partial or half effect (such as fireball, slay living, or inflict wounds), the forsaker instead suffers no effect with a successful saving throw. At 8th level, he receives the benefits of both improved evasion and improved mettle, and instead takes only the partial or half effect on a failed save (and no effect on a successful save, just as with evasion and mettle). Minimum level 4th.
    • Destructive Blows: A forsaker with this talent can make attacks which drain the very essence of magic from their foes. On a failed fortitude save (DC 10+the forsaker's class level+constitution modifier), the foe loses a number of spell slots with a combined level equal to the forsaker's class level if they are a spellcaster, or a number of power points equal to twice the forsaker's class level if they are a manifester. The forsaker chooses what combination of spell slots are lost. This effect only occurs once per round per foe struck. Minimum level 6th.
    • Disruptive Presence: The very aura of a forsaker with this talent is distracting to most foes capable of casting spells. When a foe within 60ft of the forsaker attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability, they must make a concentration check (DC 10+the forsaker's class level+the spell's level) or else the spell fizzles to no effect. Minimum level 6th.


    Ex-Forsakers
    Forsakers can multiclass normally, as long as they continue to abide by the strictures of the prestige class. Any forsaker who willingly violates those strictures by using magic items or casting spells loses all special abilities of the prestige class and can progress no further as a forsaker.
    If he thereafter remains pure and uses no magic for an entire week, he may perform a ritual involving an hour of meditation and the destruction of a single magic item with a market price of at least 2500gp per forsaker level. If he does, his abilities are reinstated at their previous levels and he may once again progress in the prestige class.
    Last edited by Muggins; 2016-12-06 at 05:55 PM.
    The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
    Spoiler: CharOP
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    ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Forsaker, Loathe is He - a Prestige Class Rework (PEACH)

    Reserved for reasons.
    Spoiler: Changelist
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    December 3, 2016: Drain Magic (was Magic Leech) now requires a standard action (was no action).
    Last edited by Muggins; 2016-12-03 at 10:03 AM.
    The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
    Spoiler: CharOP
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    IC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
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    IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
    VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
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    ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: The Forsaker, Loathe is He - a Prestige Class Rework (PEACH)

    I don't have time for a lengthy answer, but I'll ask one question: what is the action cost of the Magic Leech ability?

    Otherwise, why link only the damage reduction to the ritual destruction of magic items? I known this is the case for the original forsaker, but to me it does not make sense that only one of the class abilities is linked to this ritual.

    It seems very promising overall :)
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Forsaker, Loathe is He - a Prestige Class Rework (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by remetagross View Post
    I don't have time for a lengthy answer, but I'll ask one question: what is the action cost of the Magic Leech ability?

    Otherwise, why link only the damage reduction to the ritual destruction of magic items? I known this is the case for the original forsaker, but to me it does not make sense that only one of the class abilities is linked to this ritual.

    It seems very promising overall :)
    Magic Leech should be a standard action, like how you would a combat maneuver. My mistake there.

    You make a good point about Magic Destruction. I think the intent was for the Forsaker to continue destroying and refuting magic and magic items at all levels of play, but the fact that it only affects the Damage Reduction ability does seem strange. I think I have two main options here.
    1. I can apply the Magic Destruction to all class abilities. While flavourful, it would mean that an imprisoned Forsaker loses all of their abilities and becomes no better than a standard shmuck in a jail cell.
    2. Or, I can tie it into Fast Healing and Ability Bonus too, further promoting a theme of "destroying/draining magic items imbues the Forsaker direct physical power." Possibly the Agility, Haste, and Resolute abilities too, making them all physical boons which are lost if the Forsaker fails to follow this supposed code. He'd still exert an antimagic field at higher levels and would still have a fortified mind, but his fleshy body would be weakened.

    I think I like the second option more, but I'm hesitant to add more restrictions to the class than it already has; not being able to use magic weapons, spells, or any of the other ways martials typically use to broach the gap between them and spellcasters is a big problem for any mid- to high-op game.

    Edit: Then again, any WBL they get is either donated to someone else in the party, sold, destroyed, or otherwise disposed of. In most campaigns I can't imagine the costs to stay a Forsaker being much more than their WBL, and one with the Magic Leech trait (now called Drain Magic, because that sounds so much better) can get around that issue entirely.
    Last edited by Muggins; 2016-12-03 at 10:47 AM.
    The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
    Spoiler: CharOP
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    IC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
    IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
    IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
    VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
    JW 5: Nyan (Gold)
    ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Forsaker, Loathe is He - a Prestige Class Rework (PEACH)

    I've made some changes based on further feedback.

    • Magic Leech is now called Drain Magic. It now functions as dispel magic, does not enable damage reduction, and can be used to produce a minor mage's disjunction effect at 10th level.
    • Forsake Magic now requires that a forsaker must destroy a variable value of magic items in order to progress in the prestige class. There is no longer any penalty for casting spells or using spell-like abilities while under mind control (or while otherwise unwilling/unwitting).
    • The Ex-Forsaker penalty gold cost has been increased.
    • Magic Destruction no longer exists. Damage Reduction is always active and there is no daily cost to retaining the benefits of a forsaker.
    • Unnatural Weapons scaling changed. No longer overcomes DR/Epic at level 9.
    • Greater Unnatural Weapons now overcomes DR/Epic at level 10.
    The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
    Spoiler: CharOP
    Show
    IC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
    IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
    IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
    VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: The Forsaker, Loathe is He - a Prestige Class Rework (PEACH)

    Okay, I had to post on this.

    As someone who has some far too much work trying to create mage-killer classes in the past, I know that it's basically impossible. This class falls into many of the same pitfalls that every anti-mage falls into (mage can grant self poison/acid immunity before filling lair with poison/acid, telekinetically launch boulders, fly forever out of reach, etc.).

    With all of that said, this is definitely THE most solid attempt at a mid-range antimagic class that I have ever seen. The formatting is clean, the abilities make sense, and the class actually gives you a few bonuses that are BETTER than what magic items would grant (That Damage Reduction and fast healing, for example). This is the sort of clean advancement that Vow of Poverty could only dream of.

    With that said, I have a couple of comments:
    1. This class has no capacity to function in airless environments. If the party encounters an underwater mission, the Forsaker cannot participate.
    2. It is very easy for the forsaker to literally become unplayable. Ability drain, negative levels, and other permanent afflictions can make things very tricky.
    3. While all of the bonuses are nice, it is hard to draw a fair line between what is "replacing magic items/buffs" and what is "actual class features". Allowing for advanced class features (as the Uncanny Trickster PrC in complete scoundrel) with a few dead levels might be useful here.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Forsaker, Loathe is He - a Prestige Class Rework (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    While all of the bonuses are nice, it is hard to draw a fair line between what is "replacing magic items/buffs" and what is "actual class features". Allowing for advanced class features (as the Uncanny Trickster PrC in complete scoundrel) with a few dead levels might be useful here.
    This is exactly the problem I've been having. Because, on the one hand, look at all the stuff this class gives you; more stats, more features, more whatever. Adding more things on top of that would surely, definitely make it busted.

    But that's the kneejerk reaction - the one you get even if you're trying to remember that, at the end of the day, the forsaker sacrifices most means of mundane power to get those features. It's a balancing act that I've been talking to a lot of people about lately, and trying to make the class do more than just what magic items can do has been a real struggle because of that. I fear that, in low-op groups, this class would shine to a point where it gets banned alongside the classes of Tome of Battle for being "too strong."

    That being said, I do have some ideas of how to tweak things for the better. I've just been hesitant in how to make it so.
    • Adapt Body, or some other, similar effect. This could be tied into the Fast Healing ability, either at level 1 or at some other benchmark. Likewise..
    • Resistance/immunity to poisons, diseases, ability drain, negative levels, and so on. Against casters, this is already somewhat the case thanks to the Resolute talent, but there are sources other than spells which can inflict these properties - and, like the Adapt Body case, this could probably be rolled into the Fast Healing ability with little issue. Immunity for poisons and diseases, resistances to ability drain and negative levels (maybe an extra saving throw, even if the source doesn't allow one?).
    • Freedom of Movement could come into the picture, too. Probably alongside Haste/Agility, for a dextrous triumvirate.
    • Powerful Talents. The original forsaker had a lot of dead levels, and these currently fill those gaps - but some of them are better than others, by a lot, and some just do things to better compensate for the forsaker's lack of magic items (lookin' at you, Signature Weapon).
    • Tough Defense might, and could, be changed to a deflection modifier instead of a natural armour modifier. Right now it kinda sticks out as being one of the weakest abilities the forsaker possesses.
    • In general, just doing strong, unique things that make a forsaker not only equivalent to, but stronger than his comrades.


    More ideas is the main thing here; if I can get those, I can start making changes to better improve the class. In the meantime, I'll be thinking of how to best integrate some of these abilities.
    The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
    Spoiler: CharOP
    Show
    IC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
    IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
    IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
    VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
    JW 5: Nyan (Gold)
    ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)

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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: The Forsaker, Loathe is He - a Prestige Class Rework (PEACH)

    "The forsaker revels against the magic of the fantastic world around him." I think you mean to say rebels, not revels.

    I feel like you could probably get away with Fast Healing and Spell Resistance only being presented at first level like so:

    Fast Healing (Ex): The forsaker's body is unnaturally fast to recuperate from damage taken. At 1st level, the forsaker regains a number of hit points per round equal to his Forsaker class level, as per the fast healing ability described in the monster manual.

    Spell Resistance (Ex): At 1st level, the forsaker gains spell resistance equal to 10 + twice his Forsaker class level, up to a maximum of SR 30 at level 10. This stacks with any other applicable spell resistance he has.

    Overall I like the concept, and I can vaguely remember a similar (and inferior) version of this in one of the published 3E books out there somewhere. Can't quite recall which at the moment.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Forsaker, Loathe is He - a Prestige Class Rework (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronologist View Post
    Overall I like the concept, and I can vaguely remember a similar (and inferior) version of this in one of the published 3E books out there somewhere. Can't quite recall which at the moment.
    Masters of the Wild; this is an attempt to adapt the class to 3.5e and make it function as intended (i.e. be competent.

    Thanks for the errata. I'll make the appropriate changes.
    The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
    Spoiler: CharOP
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    IC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
    IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
    IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
    VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
    JW 5: Nyan (Gold)
    ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)

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