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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Post Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Welcome to Round 17 of the Villainous Competition!

    Previous Competitions
    Round One: Leader of Armies
    Round Two: Nature's Revenger
    Round Three: Double Agent
    Round Four: Grave Keeper
    Round Five: Crime Lord
    Round Six: Ultimate Predator
    Round Seven: Wicked Witch
    Round Eight: Master of the Tundra
    Round Nine: The Power of Villainous Thinking
    Round Ten: Henchman Are Villains Too
    Round Eleven: The Higher They Rise The Harder They Fall
    Round Twelve: Power Comes at a Price
    Round Thirteen: The Gadgeteer - You Are Not Batman
    Round Fourteen: The Thing That Should Not Be
    Round Fifteen: The Horsemen Are Drawing Nearer
    Round Sixteen: Burn Baby Burn

    We're a little different than most of the optimization threads. We run on CR instead of ECL.

    Contestants:
    You will need to present a write-up of your build with at least one of the following points: 5 CR, 10 CR 15 CR, 20 CR, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20 CR build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Secret Laboratory:
    Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon Compendium is allowed, but Dragon magazine is disallowed. Unearthed Arcana is allowed. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Item Familiars and Taint are also banned from the competition. Leadership and all similar abilities are banned for sanity reasons.
    Builds that are fully monstrous are allowed at no penalty. All class levels are to be added on as associated class levels.
    Elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) is the assumed ability score generation method.
    Some monstrous characters can technically qualify for Epic feats as soon as their ECL is over 20. While regular Epic feats will be allowed, Epic Spellcasting and all other Epic feats that affect spells, psionic powers, or item creation are not permitted. Including these would give an unfair advantage over standard characters. For Incarnum characters, Epic Open Chakra feats are allowed; other Epic Incarnum feats are not. The Essentia Capacity increases for Epic capacity as described on p. 212. For all characters, please note that Racial Hitdice do not count towards Epic Progression; use the regular progression even if the BAB ends up higher than 20.

    Deadlines:
    Contestants will have until 23:59 GMT Sunday December 18th to create their builds and PM them to the Supreme Chancellor. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 23:59 GMT Sunday January 8th* to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted. *Judging deadline is subject to extension as/if required.

    Judging:
    Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Build Elegance, Competence and Power, Memorable Villainy.
    Keep these questions in mind when judging each category:
    Originality - Is it unexpected?
    Build Elegance - Is it mechanically pretty?
    Competence and Power - Can it do what the concept asks of it? Is this a powerfully-built character?
    Memorable Villainy - Is this a villain with style? Will it be the BBEG players long to finally kill and then talk about for weeks?
    Unearthed Arcana can be penalized for elegance if the specific feature seems unnecessary or makes the playing field unfair (In this case, you can give a 1 if it makes the field unfair.)
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. As the Iron Chef competition states, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
    You may not judge if you entered the contest, unless you withdraw your submission.

    Presentation:
    Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

    Using the table below, the easiest way to use it is to go to the top left of the private message, and click the little a/A icon. It allows you to see what you're writing.
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
    Show
    CR Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    2 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    3 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    4 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    5 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    6 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    7 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    8 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    9 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    10 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    11 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    12 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    13 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    14 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    15 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    16 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    17 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    18 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    19 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    20 New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    Code immediately below (spoiler).
    Spoiler
    Show
    [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    You can use the table below for Spells.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st - - - - - - - - - -
    2nd - - - - - - - - - -
    3rd - - - - - - - - - -
    4th - - - - - - - - - -
    5th - - - - - - - - - -
    6th - - - - - - - - - -
    7th - - - - - - - - - -
    8th - - - - - - - - - -
    9th - - - - - - - - - -
    10th - - - - - - - - - -
    11th - - - - - - - - - -
    12th - - - - - - - - - -
    13th - - - - - - - - - -
    14th - - - - - - - - - -
    15th - - - - - - - - - -
    16th - - - - - - - - - -
    17th - - - - - - - - - -
    18th - - - - - - - - - -
    19th - - - - - - - - - -
    20th - - - - - - - - - -
    Code Immediately Below,
    Spoiler
    Show

    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
    [th][B]1st[/B][/th]
    [th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]4th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]5th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]6th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]7th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]8th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]9th[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]


    Speculation:
    Please don’t post or speculate on possible builds until the reveal, in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
    Once builds are revealed, please do not comment on errors or rules issues on entries unless you are a judge. If you have such a comment, wait until the final reveal to post it.

    Get ready to share those Evil thoughts. This edition’s villain is:

    It's Alive!
    Now for the tincture of tenderness, but I must use only a touch.
    For without a touch of tenderness, it might destroy me!

    Limitations


    • Must be a created being - i.e. made by artificial means, not born through the regular biological process (this will generally mean a Construct or Undead, but anything that fulfills the "created" requirement is OK). If there is any confusion about what qualifies (and I'm sure there will be), message the chairman.
    • I'm going to rule that "self-created" beings such as Necropolitans or Liches, while technically "created", do not count for this round. The being must have an external creator.
    • Must not be mindless, and should have a motivation of some kind (metaphorical bonus points if it turns against its creator!).
    • As always, must be Evil in alignment - OR - for this competition only: may be of Neutral alignment if they have a clear motivation that would bring them into conflict with your average Good-aligned being.


    We will award 1st through 3rd places, and a possible Honorable Mention.
    So, start your evil plotting!

    Submission:
    To standardize Entries, please use this format when sending it in:

    PM: Thurbane
    Subject: Villainous Competition 17, Name of your Entry
    For Revisions and disputes, do the same thing. It makes it easier for me finding the entries in my mail box.
    More questions? PM me with Villainous Competition 17 Questions in the header.

    Tips for submitting your entry, provided by Weaselguy:

    - Use capitalization and punctuation, correctly.
    - Make good use of Spoilers, for cleanliness.
    - Don't forget your sources. If it's something that can be found in the contents section, then book title seems to be fine. Obscure stuff, may want to include page number too.
    - DeviantArt has about 9 billion pictures that you can reference, I can almost guarantee you can find one there to fit your character.
    - Make good use of tables. In addition to the Build table and the Spells table, I like doing on e for my Ability Scores, just to keep it neat.
    - Do a build stub at the top of your Build Table, something like Wizard 2/Fighter 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 10
    As always: let's keep it nice.

    I'll mention that again - LET'S KEEP IT NICE! Bickering, name calling and nasty comments on the entries or other forum members are not tolerated.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Exclamation Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    I'm sure there will be a lot of "does this qualify? does that qualify?" questions - message me and I'll answer to the best of my ability. I am fully aware the category/theme for this comp is a little vague and broad.

    I'm going to reiterate - NO DRAGON MAGAZINE MATERIAL (unless it was reprinted in the compendium). I am giving permission to judges to declare any entries using such material an illegal build with an overall score of 0.

    On the subject of messaging the chair (me), a few guidelines:
    - I am not here to give critiques on your build or guess how the judges might score it! I tend to get quite a few messages of this nature each round.
    - For entries, please keep the entry to no more than 2 message, if at all possible.
    - For entries, don't expect me to search through your entry and edit in or out material. Entries should be sent to me complete - if there is a later revision, re-submit the full build. PLEASE DON'T INCLUDE TEXT IN YOUR SUBMISSION YOU WANT ME TO EDIT OUT FOR THE POST - SUBMIT IT TO ME EXACTLY HOW I WILL POST THE FINISHED PRODUCT.
    - Please make sure the name of your entry is clearly present in the message.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    I don't know how well most constructs will meet the evil alignment requirement, but I'm sure it'll be fine.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggins View Post
    I don't know how well most constructs will meet the evil alignment requirement, but I'm sure it'll be fine.
    Good point. Fixed.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Oh boy, can't wait to cook for this one.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Not sure if the things I'm thinking of submitting will fit the requirements, but I figure I'll just submit the builds and let the judges decide if they feel it fits (since that's what's gonna matter in the end anyway).


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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Definitely a wise choice allowing neutral alignments for this one.

    I have an idea, I think. I'll tinker around a bit and see if I can get it to work.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    We had a brief discussion last round about how we often build BBEGs, as opposed to just villains. Given the nature of this round, though, is that going to be the case here? If a created minion doesn't destroy their creator, how can they realistically be the BBEG when their creator is just around the corner?
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggins View Post
    We had a brief discussion last round about how we often build BBEGs, as opposed to just villains. Given the nature of this round, though, is that going to be the case here? If a created minion doesn't destroy their creator, how can they realistically be the BBEG when their creator is just around the corner?
    Maybe their creator died tragically, that being the catalyst for villainy in some way.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiri View Post
    Maybe their creator died tragically, that being the catalyst for villainy in some way.
    Yeah, maybe the PCs [REDACTED].
    Last edited by danielxcutter; 2016-12-02 at 03:41 AM.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiri View Post
    sniped.
    Don't spoil someone's potential background. Spoiling the judges to potential options could cost people originality.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by zergling.exe View Post
    Don't spoil someone's potential background. Spoiling the judges to potential options could cost people originality.
    Crap... should I nuke my post or something?
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Crap... should I nuke my post or something?
    You can if you want. I don't really mind either way, because it boils down to the kind of story that people want to tell.

    By the way, neither of your answers (yours or Tiri's) actually answers my question. If the creator is still alive and still owns the creature, are we fine with the creature not being a BBEG this round? Or must we all commit to creator-genocide here?
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggins View Post
    You can if you want. I don't really mind either way, because it boils down to the kind of story that people want to tell.

    By the way, neither of your answers (yours or Tiri's) actually answers my question. If the creator is still alive and still owns the creature, are we fine with the creature not being a BBEG this round? Or must we all commit to creator-genocide here?
    If it makes for a colorful villain that takes the spotlight, then it's fine with me. I myself can think of at least two ways that the creation could be the main antagonist without having the creator dying horribly.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Crap... should I nuke my post or something?
    I don't think it's because of potential influence on judges, I think it's because part of the fun of the contest is "solving" the challenge, so it takes away from it if people post their "solutions" before everyone else is done.

    But yeah, I'd redact that if I were you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggins View Post
    By the way, neither of your answers (yours or Tiri's) actually answers my question. If the creator is still alive and still owns the creature, are we fine with the creature not being a BBEG this round? Or must we all commit to creator-genocide here?
    I've been thinking on "BBEG-ness" since I judged the last round. It's kind of a puzzle, because the way campaigns work, you would almost never actually fight the same enemy at four different CRs, with them leveling up at the same rate as you. Usually, the BBEG starts at a high level, and you work your way up to them by fighting through their minions first. Anyway, there were some entries that I took points off in Power because they weren't strong at every point in their level progression, but I felt a little weird doing it, because is it really the job of the villain to be powerful at every point in their level progression? Like, what if your campaign is only running from levels 1–10 (as is fairly common)? In that context—arguably a more realistic context than a 1–20 campaign—Ben the Rat (for example) might have gotten a significantly higher score in the category. And Rakûl Indersun's story is clearly written for him to start at CR 20, since that's where his goals first come into conflict with the PCs, so how much weight should I really be giving to the CRs below that? It even came up in my own entries in a previous round: the +5 Adamantine Telepath, which is presented at CR 20 from the start, and "Crazy" Joe, who is only spotlighted at CR 15. (I totally got robbed in that one, by the way. The judge read my build wrong, but disputes weren't allowed in that round and I never got to correct them. Grouse grouse grouse. )

    Upon reflection, I think this is actually why the contest rules only require one spotlight. Also, I forgot how I included multiple suggestions on how to incorporate Crazy Joe into a campaign. That was pretty slick. How come everyone else isn't doing that? Man, I'm awesome. You should all do the stuff I do.

    Anyway, what were we talking about again?

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Ok time to get to work

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggins View Post
    We had a brief discussion last round about how we often build BBEGs, as opposed to just villains. Given the nature of this round, though, is that going to be the case here? If a created minion doesn't destroy their creator, how can they realistically be the BBEG when their creator is just around the corner?
    There's lots of options, but to avoid too much speculation, I'll just say that the contest doesn't want you to be the BBEG of the setting, just a BBEG of the setting. Tarkin has nothing to do with Redcloak or Xykon, but he's still a good candidate for a villain contest because he's the BBEG of that story; Darth Vader may not be the guy ultimately in charge of the galaxy, but I don't think anybody here would say he isn't a BBEG in his own right. But in those same stories, you couldn't say the same for the Bandit Chief, or for Boba Fett; sure, they're antagonists, but when it comes down to it they're the "BBEG" of an adventure at most, not a campaign. Whether the creator is alive, dead, captured, or whatever, as long as the creation can be the BBEG of the campaign it's in, they'd get credit from me...and if they can't be, they wouldn't.

    I've got a few interesting ideas for this competition, and at least one of them is something I don't think anybody else will be doing. I look forward to the coming competition.


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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Just now made an account so I can enter this, I have just the villain in mind. Gonna need to spend some time on it to really fine-tune it and figure out the staged power/master plan progression.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggins View Post
    We had a brief discussion last round about how we often build BBEGs, as opposed to just villains. Given the nature of this round, though, is that going to be the case here? If a created minion doesn't destroy their creator, how can they realistically be the BBEG when their creator is just around the corner?
    I've recently been watching all of the Justice League Unlimited cartoons start to finish, and Amazo comes to mind. True, his creator had passed away, but Amazo went and became far more powerful than his creator had originally envisaged. Assuming the creator was still alive, Amazo most definitely would still have been the BBEG.

    I think there's a few ways the entry could be a BBEG in his own right without having to destroy it's creator...

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    I could've sworn Necropolitans aren't self created.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Oh, have I ever got an idea. This ought to be fun.


    Quote Originally Posted by ben-zayb View Post
    I could've sworn Necropolitans aren't self created.
    It's complicated: the ritual requires others to perform, but only a willing creature can turn necropolitan. I'm pretty sure it violates the spirit of this contest, at least.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    If you want an undead template that can be applied unwillingly and doesn't raise your CR too much, you could always use [REDACTED]. It's a lot stronger than Necropolitan once you take LA out of the equation. [REDACTED] is also an option.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    I have so many ideas....
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Time to get to work ill win this

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ywvbevlin View Post
    Time to get to work ill win this
    Confidence is the breeding ground of success.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Imagine how many problems you can solve, how many ways you can help your friends, when not constrained by paltry morality! Imagine how much good you can achieve when you're willing to go to any length to achieve it! Imagine the monsters you can slay when you are the greatest monster of them all!
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Yes, so glad this theme was picked! I have a wonderful idea, time to get cooking
    VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by remetagross View Post
    Yes, so glad this theme was picked! I have a wonderful idea, time to get cooking
    if it's anything like nero, I'm sure you'll do great.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Can we submit two builds? I have a build stub for this one already as well as another killer idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by LordOfCain View Post
    Can we submit two builds? I have a build stub for this one already as well as another killer idea.
    You can submit as many as you like. I think the record's... four, for this competition?
    That's all I can think of, at any rate.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVII: It's Alive!

    Quote Originally Posted by strigon View Post
    you can submit as many as you like. I think the record's... Four, for this competition?
    mwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
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