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2019-05-30, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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2019-05-30, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-30, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Sha'ir can to purchase a scroll of Trap the Soul (15000 gp)
IMHO, much worse problem there is CL 20 requirement - to bump a Sha'ir CL from 13 to 20 may be a tad more problematic...
EDIT:
Unusually, there are no fault of Dragon's authors - they just copied general rules for vehicle armor plating from the Arms and Equipment Guide
And one more dysfunction:Navigator's Kit (Arms and Equipment Guide):This expensive set of instruments includes a sextant, astrolabe, compass, and measuring tools. It has no benefit on land but grants a +2 circumstance bonus on Intuit Direction and Wilderness Lore (directional only) checks while at sea, and on Profession (cartographer) checks to make maps.
Sextant (Stormwrack): Cost - 250 gp; Weight - 10 lb.Last edited by ShurikVch; 2019-05-30 at 01:42 PM.
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2019-05-30, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
The minimum price of trap the soul scrolls is 4,000 gp each, but they are intended per day; if I'm not mistaken, this means 340,000 gp to create the genie prison, which is enough to buy 2 iron flasks (a better object), and is way beyond the possibilities of a 13th level PC.
BTW, IIRC, after errata the CL shown in an object's description is only provided as an example, the minimum possible CL is actually that required to cast the required spell (short of shaenigans is 15)."Ash" avatar by linklele - thank you again!
Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook | Sha'ir homebrewed fixes
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2019-05-30, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Good point!
It means - one dysfunction less.
What's you're even talking about?
From where you pulling it?
1) What the hell means "minimum price ... is 4,000 gp each"? Scroll of trap the soul costs 13000 gp - check the SRD!
But SRD expected creature up to 10 HD; since Marid (Manual of the Planes) is genie too, and have 11 HD, I bumped the cost up to 15000 (because of extra material components, and expecting CL 20 - for CL 15 it will be 14000 gp).
To catch Rajief the Prince of the Djinn (19 HD, Exemplars of Evil), you will need 22000 gp (23000 - if CL 20)
2) What's you mean "per day"?! The spell is "Duration: Permanent; see text"!
3) The "340,000 gp" is poppycock
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2019-05-30, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
You need the spell for each day you spend crafting the item. If you assume you are allowed to get it from a scroll, that means one scroll per day of crafting. Trap The Soul does not specify a minimum cost for the gem, and the resultant item does not appear to be affected by the cost of the gem used to make the scroll at all, so there's no reason to get a scroll for this purpose that is any more expensive than the bare minimum (in fact making a Wondrous Item would not normally invoke material components at all, so the value of the soul-trap gem is completely irrelevant to the function of the resulting genie trap/Iron Flask - the only reason it's even under discussion is that we're trying to bypass 'I can't actually cast this spell yet' by using scrolls, which do require the material component.)
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2019-05-30, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Well, firstly: if we would be so meticulous, 13th-level Sha'ir wouldn't be able to craft it anyway, because Flask market price is 170000 gp - thus, 85000 gp to create; WbL for 13th level is 110000 gp
Secondly: what if craft it on Astral plane? This way, no days pass at all...
Thirdly: how about the Planar Binding of Brachina? They got the Trap the Soul 1/day...
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2019-05-30, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
The Dysfunction Handbook only covers the first 7 threads. This is the 8th thread.
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2019-05-31, 02:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
I fully quote tyckspoon:
Yes, that's another good point. The problem is that, in AD&D, all sha'ir's abilities had their own, separate, comprehensive descriptions, while in 3.5 they adopt existing spells and feats - without checkreading if they actually work for the class.
Uh, I'm not THAT practiced in magic items' creation to answer it. My first impression is that the rules say that you need in any case 85 days ("personal" time or "local" time, doesn't matter) and 85 castings of the spell, so crafting on the astral plane shouldn't make a difference. But I'm not sure; is it a known trick?
After a quick research, I'm under the impression it would work (although they have +17 will and +9 cha, it should still be feasible). So, there's at least one feasible strategy to create the item - provided that the 85,000 gp aren't a problem. Still kinda disfunctional.
Sorry, my misunderstanding was that any post had to be mandatorily analyzed by the users for correctness aforehand."Ash" avatar by linklele - thank you again!
Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook | Sha'ir homebrewed fixes
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2019-06-13, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Epic Autohypnosis allows you to roll against a poisons DC +5 to negate the second saving throw. Useful enough and especially strange since often this would not require epic skill ranks to achieve. When we turn to the regular description for autohypnosis we find that it actually has the same ability at a DC of poison's DC. The exact wording is different but I can't find any way in which the effect actually differs, besides making it harder.
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2019-06-13, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
I'd guess this is just something that got missed in updating the information; Epic is generally something of an afterthought (see also the ongoing debate about whether or not the Epic version of Magic Immunity was supposed to be changed to be infinite SR, or if they actually did mean to just have it say 'you're immune to magic' still.) The 'resist poison' function may have been added to Autohypnosis when it got updated in the 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook, and nobody was too concerned about reconciling it with the previous version..
That said, I think there is one functional difference? The Epic version says you 'ignore the secondary damage'; the non-Epic version just lets you substitute your Autohypnosis check for your saving throw. This could make a difference depending on the exact poison, eg for poisons that don't permit a save against the secondary effect or have a save for reduced effect instead of negating. The Epic Autohypnosis use will bypass those entirely.
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2019-06-13, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Well, they do stack, so it basically lets you roll twice and take the higher result.
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2019-06-20, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
So, while I was looking into options for this thread, I was thinking about how exactly Legacy Champion works.
Let's say you currently have 3 levels in Ranger. Then you reach Legacy Champion level 2, causing you to "gain class features and an increase in effective level as if you had also gained a level in [Ranger]". So you obtain the Ranger-level-4 class feature, Animal Companion.
What happens if you take another level of Ranger now?
Considering that the Legacy Champion class feature doesn't particularly modify the ranger class, I suppose you reach Ranger level 4 and obtain the Ranger-level-4 class feature, Animal Companion. Now you have two animal companions!
But wait, there's more. What if, instead of taking Ranger level 4, you took Legacy Chamption level 3? This would, again, cause you to "gain class features and an increase in effective level as if you had also gained a level in [Ranger]". And since what would have happened if you gained a level in Ranger was to gain Animal Companion, Legacy Champion gives you yet another animal companion!
In conclusion, Legacy Champion usually gives you a bunch of copies of the same class feature.
This dysfunction also applies to every spellcasting-progressing prestige class, making them even more limited than they already were based on previously discovered dysfunctions.
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2019-06-20, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
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2019-06-20, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Baphitaur statblock have listed flat-footed AC number, but Natural Cunning SQ prevents Baphitaur from being flat-footed no matter what
Last edited by ShurikVch; 2019-06-20 at 12:14 PM.
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2019-06-20, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Redundancy isn't really dysfunctional, is it?
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2019-06-20, 03:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2019-06-20, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Level Point System 5E
Poker Roll
Tier 1 Master of All
Tier 2 Lightning Bruiser
Tier 3 Lethal Joke Character
Tier 4 Master of None
Tier 5 Crippling Overspecialization
Tier 6 Joke Character
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2019-06-20, 06:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Ahem!..
Magelord Mastery vs Signature Supremacy
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"... isn't really dysfunctional"?
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2019-06-20, 07:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
I don't see a reading of the text where it can mean what it's intended to mean. The intended behavior seems clear, but it just isn't what the text says.
What rule is that? I know there's a rule like that for gestalt characters, and a rule like that for bonuses, but I don't remember seeing a rule like that that applies in general. (And even if you can't duplicate class features, it's still dysfunctional in that Legacy Champion can only get you one level of class features when it's intended to get you eight.)
For spellcasting PRCs, they typically say something like "When a new archmage level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class..." So if you were a Wizard 13 / Archmage X, with a literal reading, you'd keep gaining spells-per-day as if you had gained Wizard 14 when you were previously a Wizard 13/Archmage X. The way I read it, I guess you'd keep getting 7th level spell slots forever but never get to 8th level spell slots. Or if you can't duplicate class features, you'd just gain nothing.Last edited by EliDupree; 2019-06-20 at 07:18 PM.
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2019-06-21, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Well, where it says "gain class features and an increase in effective level as if you had also gained a level in [Ranger]," you can understand "increase in effective level" as meaning that you're effectively a Ranger of one level higher; that is, even though you've only got three levels in Ranger, you count as having four. That's a non-dysfunctional reading.
(On a side note, if it doesn't mean that, I'm clueless as to what "increase in effective level as if you had also gained a level in Ranger" could possibly mean)
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2019-06-21, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Since it used the word "effective", I was assuming it referred to Effective Character Level (ECL), which is indeed normally increased by gaining a level in Ranger. But I suppose you could also interpret it as "effective Ranger level", which is pretty ambiguous as to what it affects, but does make it qualify for the "a non-dysfunctional reading exists" rule because you could interpret it to affect exactly the things that it should, and none of the things that it shouldn't. Good point.
EDIT: And if it's referring to ECL, that's another dysfunction because you'd gain TWO levels of ECL, one from the Legacy Champion class level and one from the Legacy Champion class feature mimicking a Ranger class level.Last edited by EliDupree; 2019-06-21 at 04:43 PM.
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2019-06-26, 10:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Vow of Abstinence gives bonuses to resist the effects of poisons and drugs. Unfortunately, consuming any drug, even unintentionally, causes you to immediately lose the feat.
Physics in D&D is only superficially similar to real world physics.
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2019-06-28, 08:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
From Pathfinder, the Astomoi race "can’t speak or see, but can mentally sense the area within 60 feet, as per darkvision", causing all sorts of issues where the allegedly eyeless race can be blinded, affected by gaze attacks, have their "vision" hindered by obscuring mist or supernatural darkness... all of which could have been circumvented by just giving them blindsight instead of an ability that works as darkvision.
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2019-07-23, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
The monster entry for Stone Golem says that Stone to Flesh does not change its structure but negates its damage reduction and immunity to magic for 1 full round.
Stone to Flesh, on the other hand, specifies that it turns a Stone Golem into a Flesh Golem, Instantaneously.Quotebox
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2019-07-23, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
I've heard some say that this is evidence you can do it if you cast it twice, but by strict RAW you're right, it's a contradiction.
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2019-07-24, 04:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
I think that the Golem's Immunity to Magic (Ex) ability probably wins out on being the most specific source? The way I think probably makes most sense to resolve it is that the Immunity to Magic overrides Stone to Flesh's text, but if you somehow strip that ability from it (which, yes, Stone to Flesh is the easiest way to do it), then Stone to Flesh would then turn it into a flesh golem. (Su) Stone to Flesh would also presumably turn it straight into a flesh golem.
Last edited by Heliomance; 2019-07-24 at 04:07 AM.
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2019-07-24, 11:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Is there any way to do that in Core,though? Stone to Flesh already doesn't work, so if there isn't, that's still a dysfunction since the spell (at least originally) couldn't do that. Well, I guess it wouldn't be a dysfunction any more since there are presumably non-core ways to accomplish this, but still...
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2019-07-25, 02:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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2019-07-25, 02:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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