Robbing a Bank

[jmt11190]

Okay, taking a break from the whole save humanity and potentially die a martyr's death cliché (ah… the curse of the adventurer), my group has decided to use our powers for less noble deeds. We want to rob a bank or a market place, just something to flex our creative minds and completely throw off the WBL system. My group is at level six, soon to be seven, so for this, assume that you have a party of 3-4 characters, levels 5-7, and about 3k – 4k gp to buy any scroll, potion, or magic item that you need. With these resources how would you try to rob a bank?

In addition, I would like to know what kind of security systems these banks would have set up, because they have yet to invent the security camera, but have access to magical protection. Beyond the warrior bodyguard or an invisible wizard, what might the bank or city have for protection from people like us?

In my party, we have a changeling rogue, a binder (me), and a ninja. My plan to rob a bank/bazaar would be for every member of our party (except the changeling) to drink a disguise self potion (total 600gp) to look like the same generic citizen of the city/town we were going to rob. Then each member of the party will drink two potions of mirror image (total 1800 gp). With 6d4+6+3(us) targets running around we cause mass panic as we set out and use the same sweep motion with our hands as if actually picking something up, thus all the image look the same. When we get near an item we want to take, we use the sweeping action to pick the item up and put it in a bag. With enough stuff stolen, the changeling drops his bag and I pick it up. The changeling then controls his figments to all mend into one of mine and then dismisses them. In the chaos of the raging crowds, the changeling shifts into another form and blends into the hysterical crowd of customers and merchants. Then the ninja (maybe with another potion of invisibility, 300gp) and I (using the vestige, Malphus) turn invisible and run off. After the crowd settles down, the changeling joins us and we count our loot, and then return to saving the world.

Another idea that I have would be to have a fourth character as an arcane caster who could use a scroll of major image. He would cast the spell centered over the plaza. As high as range would allow, he would create a very small fiery meteor heading towards the ground. Instead of making the object move towards the ground, he would just make the meteor a little bigger each round. Using the customers’ depth perception, the object appears to be approaching. Thus in fear of Armageddon, she flees along with all her shopping friends. With the shops evacuated, the invisible party (minus the wizard still concentrating on expanding the figment) will sneak in a steal whatever is not nailed down. (Total cost for the scroll and 2x invisibility potions is 975 gp).

What are some of your ideas?

[mostlyharmful]

the bank robbing is a trap, good crimes have no victim, or at least a victim that doesn't even realize they've been Knobbled. Go for Charm and Suggestion along with alter self and amulets of read thoughts, combine with modify memory for untracable con tricks with everything from walking away from the merchant with his entire chart to posing as a contrctor to the big trading house and getting put on the books, 15gp per day to make repairs on the major architecture sounds harmless enough to be missed/ignored in low tech book keeping and now do a dozen of those, 180gp per day. Just be sure to keep a well oated horse inside the porch incase anyone twigs it.

[tarbrush]

Power level till you can cast Wall of Iron. Sell the iron. Profit.

Cast Mount. Cast Nystuls Magic Aura to remove the mounts magical aura. Sell the horse.*

*This requires having another actual horse (or another mount) so you can get away when the horse vanishes.

It's like robbing banks, except the bankers willingly participate in the robbery

[jmt11190]

the bank robbing is a trap, good crimes have no victim, or at least a victim that doesn't even realize they've been Knobbled. Go for Charm and Suggestion along with alter self and amulets of read thoughts, combine with modify memory for untracable con tricks with everything from walking away from the merchant with his entire chart to posing as a contrctor to the big trading house and getting put on the books, 15gp per day to make repairs on the major architecture sounds harmless enough to be missed/ignored in low tech book keeping and now do a dozen of those, 180gp per day. Just be sure to keep a well oated horse inside the porch incase anyone twigs it.

That might work, but it is too high level. The medallion of thoughts is 12k ( which is more than 3-4k limit I set) and a scroll of modify memory is 1k. Thus most of your idea works but all it take is for the merchant to make a save and you are arrested, and you only have enough money to try it a few times. I want an idea that allows no save or it does not matter. Also I set the price limit becuase with enough spells and money could do almost anything.

[psychoticbarber]

I have to agree with the "It's a trap!" mentality.

First-off, do you have a way at 7th level to get through a locked, 1/2 foot thick iron door? It'll be Arcane-Locked by someone of MUCH higher level than your Arcane-monkey.

Secondly, it probably wouldn't really be a bank. At least not a bank as you know it, because these kinds of institutions were essentially hard storage for nobles in the medieval era. However, if your DM has created a bank-like bank, then that's entirely up to him or her.

My point is this: In a world based on economics, people are going to treat the defense of money extremely seriously, especially in a city or another place where you might find a bank. I wouldn't take a group of 7th level adventurers on a rob-the-bank excursion in my world.

But as I said, your world is probably much different, and you should plan accordingly.

[jmt11190]

Power level till you can cast Wall of Iron. Sell the iron. Profit.

Cast Mount. Cast Nystuls Magic Aura to remove the mounts magical aura. Sell the horse.*

*This requires having another actual horse (or another mount) so you can get away when the horse vanishes.

It's like robbing banks, except the bankers willingly participate in the robbery

Okay... that is a get rich quick secheme, but what does that have to do with robbing a bank?

[jmt11190]

Even if the bank robbing is out of the question at our level. It is still possible to rob a market place. The market place has more escape routes and has more people to incite panic. Also the security at a bazaar can not be a tight as a bank's because shoppers need the freedom to move and shop at their leisure. So scrap the bank idea, but how would you actually plan to steal from a market place and not get caught.

[Fishies]

Why rob the marketplace? A con works better, with less risk involved, and less resources spent.

[mostlyharmful]

how about the Highway Man cliche, lots of fresh air and exercise, the possibilty of easily impressed noble women, and every so often (when all else fails) you could always hire yourselfs out to stamp out the endemic highway robbery in the area, go on holiday and wander back intime to collect your fat reward tfor cleaning up the area and to swank around infrount of all the easily impressed noble women who like a bit of rough.

[Vik]

The point is not how you will rob a market. The point is how you will escape the people that will go after you. If you rob enough money to be worth your level, then you should expect a heavy retaliation, because that's a lot of money for NPC.
So, the good question is what will you do when the 10th level cleric of Heironeus come with his friends to get the money back and put an end to your robbery ?

[psychoticbarber]

Even if the bank robbing is out of the question at our level. It is still possible to rob a market place. The market place has more escape routes and has more people to incite panic. Also the security at a bazaar can not be a tight as a bank's because shoppers need the freedom to move and shop at their leisure. So scrap the bank idea, but how would you actually plan to steal from a market place and not get caught.

Be a monk. High dex, high speed, if anything goes wrong nobody'll catch you. However, I'm not sure how one can rob a "marketplace". You could rob individual vendors, sure, but a marketplace is not a single entity.

[Tyger]

Not only that, but unless you are talking about "markets" which are far in excess of what one would expect to see at a market, there are no valuable items laying about that could be "swept up" like that. A bundle of carrots, an apple or two, maybe a particularly nice quiver... but magic items and valuabel gems etc simply would not be left out like that. Hell, in most worlds they wouldn't be in a market at all.

If they are, then you are in a VERY high magic world. Expect swift, savage retribution, as there are going to be very high level guards who are trained at eliminating threats exactly as you suggest.

Now, that over, yes, your mirror image idea would be great for creating confusion and you can take advantage of that to pull of a minor theft. Very minor. You like carrots? :)

And at the end of the day, the DM is very unlikely to allow you to screw with the WBL guidelines... they are a major balancing force in game. Level 7 characters are powerful people, but the system works with that. Level 7 characters with level 15 WBL gear are dangerous for game balance. Not only with the DM have to start throwing CR 15 encounters at you so that you don't clean up in one round, you will die to those encounters, because you simply don't have the HP or saves to survive what those encounters dish out.

[Haakon]

I think a monk, which has to be lawful in alignment, would be hard pressed to rob a bank or anybody else for that matter

[psychoticbarber]

I think a monk, which has to be lawful in alignment, would be hard pressed to rob a bank or anybody else for that matter

Point taken. I was just wildly casting around for something with a high dex and a high speed to illustrate that grabbing and running might be the best bet. I think many of the alignment restrictions are bogus, but that's a topic for another thread.

[NerfTW]

If I was the DM, I'd have the players be sorely disappointed when they discover that the bank is a sham, and there's only a thousand gold or so in it.

Nobles would want to keep thier fluid assetts in a keep or stronghold, where they can guard it personally. The average person wouldn't have enough money to justify using a bank.

Unless there's a Federal Reserve and insurance on the bank, you'd probably run into the same situation most bankers faced. They loan out more money than they have (through promisarry notes) and hope too many people don't want thier hard cash at once.

Also, robbing a bank in modern times would cause the same problem. There's only about a hundred thousand or so in the bank. The rest is electronic.

[Kurald Galain]

I think a monk, which has to be lawful in alignment, would be hard pressed to rob a bank or anybody else for that matter

Heh. Monk stuns bank tellers, then robs bank. City guards come to arrest him. Character tries to run away Really Fast but suddenly realizes he has lost his monk abilities and is not nearly as fast as he expected to be. Plus encumbrance from bags of gold, equals lots of prison time.

[Person_Man]

The main problem with robbing a bank is that they generally don't exist in pre-modern societies. 90-ish% of the population is generally involved in subsistence farming, so there's just not a ton of wealth in the world, or an organized system for accumulating capital for investment. Merchants generally hoarded their cash individually. And usury (charging interest on loans) was considered criminal and/or sinful by many religions/philosophers for a wide variety of reasons. Tax collection, rent collection, and money lending were generally considered low status and/or "unclean" professions. If a ruler or noble wanted cash, they generally borrowed it from other kings, nobles, or the church and/or temple.

If there's a bazaar or other town center with a wide variety of merchants, you'd have to attempt a mass daylight robbery in order to take all their gold. Alternatively, you'd could go to each of their houses individually in the middle of the night and rob them. But the moment anyone fails a Hide or Move Silently check, the victim is likely to wake get the town guard and wake the entire town to form a lynch mob and find the outsiders who robbed them.

Even if there is a bank/whatever in your game world and you do rob it, you then have another problem: You can't spend the money anywhere remotely close to where you steal it from. Pre FDIC (I assume your game world isn't ruled by King FDR) if a bank was robbed, everyone who had their money stolen lost their savings. Even if you steal from just one merchant, every merchant in the area will quickly be on the lookout for you. Thus, bank robbery never really caught on until the birth of geographically large, rich countries with non-military law enforcement (i.e, trials and personal rights, instead of on the spot executions).

Having gotten that out of my system, there are certainly a million different "let's rob somebody" options available to your group. Kings, nobles, churches, guilds, etc. might have piles of gold lying around. Or you can locate a dragon or similar wealth hoarding monster, spend time staking it out, and then rob its lair while its away.

Being a successful thief is not about using certain spells or tactics. It's about patience. Use the social Skills and careful observation to find out where the money is, who's guarding it, what magic might be protecting it, etc. Then use careful preparation to overcome the defenses. Do that, and your PC's should be fine.

[Shrew]

I do not have my book in front of me, but there is a spell in the PHB2 that is called incite riot. I think it last one round, but might give a good diversion.

[psychoticbarber]

Heh. Monk stuns bank tellers, then robs bank. City guards come to arrest him. Character tries to run away Really Fast but suddenly realizes he has lost his monk abilities and is not nearly as fast as he expected to be. Plus encumbrance from bags of gold, equals lots of prison time.

I swear, you mention monk once, and all of a sudden everybody's "Monks are lawful" this, and "Fallen Monks" that...

For the record, I'm intending to make fun of myself, not start a flamewar. The above comments are in jest and made with the knowledge that I picked the wrong class for the job.

[Fishies]

Heh. Monk stuns bank tellers, then robs bank. City guards come to arrest him. Character tries to run away Really Fast but suddenly realizes he has lost his monk abilities and is not nearly as fast as he expected to be. Plus encumbrance from bags of gold, equals lots of prison time.

You retain all monk abilities if you lose the alignment. You just can't level up in Monk anymore.

[mostlyharmful]

fun/funny crimes, diverting diversions....... hmmm......

how about the temples? Just like the medivael church they'd be the ones with the moolah, get into a position of trust with a ring of mind blank and a hat of disguise (the greatest magic item in the game) and talk your way into the bank vault of the Vatican...... Score!!!!

[Joltz]

I agree, there are many better ways of stealing from NPCs than blatantly robbing the bank. I stole a single item from a bank vault once as a level 12 rogue. There was a lot of device disabling (and one forcecage trap I missed and had to escape). I really think you'd be better off robbing things that aren't protected by the government. Anyone wanna raid a monster's lair?

[Yechezkiel]

"We want to rob a bank or a market place, just something to flex our creative minds and completely throw off the WBL system...

What are some of your ideas?"

[psychoticbarber]

"We want to rob a bank or a market place, just something to flex our creative minds and completely throw off the WBL system...

What are some of your ideas?"

Three cheers for irony!

[PlatinumJester]

1 - hire goons (30) but say you'll pay after robbery.
2 - steal a magic carpet (largish)
3 - Get a third of the goons to cause a distraction nearby
4 - Get another 10 goons to keep watch and keep civilians away
5 - enter the bank with 10 goons (but keep disguise self on the party members)
6 - Kill guards.
7 - Get money
8 - Kill goons
9 - fly away on magic carpet on which you have cast invisibilty
10 - leave an anomous list of names somewhere obvious so that the city guard can arrest the remaining goons.

[Bryn]

Hmm... once my group worked together to rob a casino. The game wasn't particularly serious, so there were some flaws in the plan that were unaddressed, but I will post a more developed method that is loosely based on what we did. This will make use of the Changeling's ability to disguise himself. but it doesn't have so much for the rest of the party to do, so it probably isn't ideal. It is not the most original plan ever conceived, nor the most exciting, but here it is anyway...

The first step is to find a bank that is recruiting new staff, preferably for a fairly lowly position. Preferably, this should be a fairly 'modern' world such as Eberron where there will be fairly common banks. You need some sort of extradimensional storage space - a Handy Haversack would probably be the cheapest option, although a Bag of Holding is only slightly more. You also need a strong Bluff modifier, and preferably a good Diplomacy as well. Finally, you have to be willing to commit murder, so this is not an option for all parties and many might find it pretty despicable *.

Chances are that you won't be best qualified for the position, and even if you are you don't want to risk finding holes in a fabricated identity. Therefore, you wait for the position to be filled, and then watch the person who has filled it until you get a fairly good idea of their personality and mannerisms: you need to be able to imitate them, at least for a while. In addition to this, watch the important people in the bank, those likely to have keys to the main vault. Try to determine which of them are least popular and spend least time with the others.

Once you are ready to replace the new employee, grab them in an alley/toilet/other hidden place and apply Sneak Attack. Then, stow the body in the extradimensional storage space and save it for later, as well as preserving it for a short time with Gentle Repose or a similar spell. Now you are an 'employee' of the bank, but you almost certainly don't have access to the main vault. Therefore, you need some keys. Find the outcast you determined from watching the important people, and somehow relieve him of his key, preferably inconspicuously (or with use of memory-modifying magic to cover it up. This is to avoid any strange coincidence of the deaths/disappearance of two employees at once.)

Now you have the key, it should not be too hard to rob the vault: perhaps it is best to sneak in some time late in the day. Alternatively, use a distraction to gain access without being noticed. Put the money in your extradimensional storage space, then leave. So far, so simple, but you need a way to dispose of the body of the new bank employee and cover up his mysterious disappearance when you leave. Therefore, place his body in a place indicicative of a mugging: perhaps in the very place you killed him in. Hopefully, therefore, his death will be dismissed as a result of a mundane crime (and hide the fact that the body has already been dead for a couple of days using Gentle REpose) and you will have time to get out of town before anybody wonders where the money in the bank has gone. If you can cover up the loss of the money to buy more time, perhaps from robbing less-used vaults only, it is better still.

You then leave town as quickly as possible, carrying a small fortune in money and a fair bit of guilt too Some time later, the bank will realise that they suddenly lost all their money, but there shouldn't be any evidence pointing to you.

There are some major flaws with the plan that I can think of. Firstly, if the bank is protected by magical locks that require the correct person to open them (and not just a key) there could be some major problems getting in. Secondly, you do not want to spend too long impersonating the new employee, as even with the observation somebody might realise that they are not acting normally. You need to be finished with the operation before a search is organised. There are almost certainly many other issues that I can't think of.

*Finally, a disclaimer: Note that I do consider murder to be a despicable crime and I do not actually endorse it in reality, and I consider this plan to be an Evil act in the gameworld which should be treated as such.

[Inyssius Tor]

How about the temples? Just like the medieval church they'd be the ones with the moolah... Get into a position of trust with a ring of mind blank and a hat of disguise (the greatest magic item in the game) and talk your way into the bank vault of the Vatican... Score!

Ah, but (unlike in the medieval Church) the churches in D&D are the ones with the gods. Big, angry gods. The pope of St. Cuthbert can call down divine retribution from the sky, you can't just walk away from Fharlanghn, and there isn't anywhere you can go to escape the Shalm.

[mostlyharmful]

find bank, walk into bank with crossbows cocked, from the gut declare for all your worth "YOUR GP OR YOUR HP!!!!!", take all available funds, flee accompanied by benny hill-esque music, like like bandit kings in the hills.

Just cause it's been done doesn't invalidate the classics.

and just cause somethings dumb in the short term doesn't mean there aren't people that 1 don't care 2 are too dumb to think of something better or 3 have already done far stupider/funnier things in the past so why not?