Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXVIII: Drasius Can't Have Nice Things

[Renegade Paladin]

On a practical note, the Taurox is good for sitting back and shooting, but Chimeras are what you need if you plan to get right up in the enemy's grill, and a formation whose entire job is to go take objectives away from your opponent is going to have to do exactly that.

[The Patterner]

That would require owning Tauroxes, and the trouble there is that they look really stupid.

I rebuilt mine to have wheels. Looks sooo much better!

But other than that, I like the list. Emperors blade is a fine formation 😀

[Forum Explorer]

Out of curiosity, is there a way to make a 1850 Eternal War/Maelstrom army that says "Hey look, the march of the Wraiths!" that wouldn't lose you friends? I've always loved Wraithguard/lord fluff but a T6+ army doesn't sound like something your average casual list could easily deal with...

Don't bring any Wraithknights, and I think that'll suffice really. Oh, and insist on running ITC rules for ranged D. And almost forgot, don't take any transports. If it's the march of the Wraiths, then have them march. (Also if you have Wave Serpents, the Wave Serpents will over shadow them.)

But I think you can simply ask people if you can test it out to see if it is OP, and they won't mind giving you that chance at least.

It used to be nowhere near as bad, but then again they didnt have Psuedo-D, they just had S4 AP2 Template weapons with ID on a 6. They where horrifying but they still only have 1 wound.

Basically Wraithblades + Wraithlords with the, like 2 tops, of Wraithguards.

What in 6th?
Because in 5th they were basically D. 2+ to wound anything, AP 1, 6 is instant death. They didn't have the option for the template shots back then though.

Honestly, people make too much of a fuss over the basic Wraithcannon. The Template one is really scary. The single shot one is basically meltas for most of the units in the game.

[Blackhawk748]

What in 6th?
Because in 5th they were basically D. 2+ to wound anything, AP 1, 6 is instant death. They didn't have the option for the template shots back then though.

Honestly, people make too much of a fuss over the basic Wraithcannon. The Template one is really scary. The single shot one is basically meltas for most of the units in the game.

Ya, 6th, when you could field and entire army of the things. Also it was when Eldar where the most reasonable (except for Serpent Spam). On top of this im pretty sure they cost more in 5th, but thats off of memory.

Except vehicles, which they delete and multi wound units, which they delete, but it doesnt matter, they shouldnt have Strength D to begin with, their old weapon profile was fine enough.

[Forum Explorer]

Except vehicles, which they delete and multi wound units, which they delete, but it doesnt matter, they shouldnt have Strength D to begin with, their old weapon profile was fine enough.

Really, there is very little that should have strength D. Gargantuans and Super-Heavies? Sure. The occasional special character. Okay. But that's about it. (Speaking of, what is that Dark Angels flyer that can shoot a D vortex. Because that thing is ridiculous.)

So yeah, I didn't mind uber-meltas either. That worked out well. It's just that walking Wraithguard with the regular cannons aren't overly OP. Get them in assault or shoot them from afar. There are plenty of tools to beat them, because they'll take their time walking over to get you in range.

[Cheesegear]

(Speaking of, what is that Dark Angels flyer that can shoot a D vortex. Because that thing is ridiculous.)

It shoots a small Blast S10, AP2 shot. It's basically a flying Vindicator. If it rolls doubles on its Scatter dice; Vortex. It even has Strafing Run for some reason. If you weren't already sold on it, well, if you look at the other DA Flier, well, the Dark Talon also gets Hover (i.e; The ability to Score), while the Jetfighter does not.

It's just that walking Wraithguard with the regular cannons aren't overly OP. Get them in assault or shoot them from afar. There are plenty of tools to beat them, because they'll take their time walking over to get you in range.

Competitive Wraithguard don't walk. They Autarch for +1 to Reserves and then Webway Portal in where you never get to shoot them before they get to shoot you.

[Forum Explorer]

It shoots a small Blast S10, AP2 shot. It's basically a flying Vindicator. If it rolls doubles on its Scatter dice; Vortex. It even has Strafing Run for some reason. If you weren't already sold on it, well, if you look at the other DA Flier, well, the Dark Talon also gets Hover (i.e; The ability to Score), while the Jetfighter does not.



Competitive Wraithguard don't walk. They Autarch for +1 to Reserves and then Webway Portal in where you never get to shoot them before they get to shoot you.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. I think my opponent messed up big with that thing then. Vortex only kicks in on a doubles on the scatter dice? And it's S 10, not D? That would've made a massive difference in that game then.


Sure, but we're talking a theoretical thematic Wraith Legion. A bare minimum of not Wraiths to make it a CAD, and then as many Wraiths as you can stick in it as possible.

[Cheesegear]

Vortex only kicks in on a doubles on the scatter dice?

Yes.

And it's S 10, not D?

If you don't roll doubles on the Scatter dice, it's S10, not D.

[Forum Explorer]

Yes.



If you don't roll doubles on the Scatter dice, it's S10, not D.

Welp, that was quite the mistake then. I was playing guard, and by turn 4, having 4 S D vortexes running around my back line was appropriately devastating. Not to mention 1 shotting one of my Vendettas.

[lord_khaine]

Sure, but we're talking a theoretical thematic Wraith Legion. A bare minimum of not Wraiths to make it a CAD, and then as many Wraiths as you can stick in it as possible.

Good point about the Wraithcannons basically being uber-melta's most of the time. And even back in 6th you instantly killed things if you rolled a 6 to wound. I removed a healthy Hive tyrant and a couple of carnifexes that way.

So yeah, on second though a pure Eldar Wraith army without DE shennanigans might be fine after all. I would certainly say that if you allow a unit of Wraithguards to footslog across the table then you deserve to lose whatever super expensive unit that gets within their 12 range.

edit.

I wonder how much it would actually cost in points, the basic Wraith CAD?

2*SpiritSeer
2*10 guardians, with missile launcher and warlock leader.
10 Wraithblades
10 Wraithguards
2*Wraithlord with bright lance.

[Eddums]

Do you play Maelstrom or Eternal War?

We mostly play Eternal War thus far, but we'll probably be moving into Maelstrom games sometime soonish. Of course, I can always change the list to do.

To Regroup on normal Leadership while under 25%, you unit must be accompanied by a model with the Independent Character special rule.

Given that, I'm starting to wonder if the Warlock Leader is worth it for the Guardians. I mean, the unit is basically there to take objectives and bring their Scatter Laser - I'm not sure how much the Warlock adds to this, he really only brings Conceal to the party, which is helpful, but by cutting him out, I think I could probably work in another Troops, meaning I can use the Aspect Host, and the Guardians get better at taking objectives. I guess there's his 'combat ability', but if the Guardians are in assault with anything half capabale, they're dead, Warlock or not.

So, guide to 7th Ed's style of building an army.

• Units can be taken in "formations" or "detachments".
• • Formations ask for specific units (or choices from a list) and give bonuses to all those units.
  • Detachments ask for Force Organisation Chart choices (two Troops, three Fast Attack, etc) and give certain bonuses to those units. The Combined Arms Detachment and Allied Detachment are both Detachments.
• A unit can't be in more than one formation or detachment at a time.
  
  • With the exception of what are called "MFD" Formations, which are kind of formations of formations, so units get two sets of bonuses. The "Craftworld Warhost" in the eldar book is a good example of this.
• You can't take a unit that isn't in either a formation or detachment.
• Unless you're playing Unbound.
• If you take an Unbound army, you can't take detachments, but you can take anything else you want - any unit from any army. You can take Formations, and you get the Formation bonus.
• However, this means Unbound can be kind of cheesy - so some people won't play against an Unbound army.

Correct on units not being able to be part of 2 formations/detatchments. A CAD is technically a detatchment, but for our purposes, yes, close enough to being its own formation as makes no difference. Everything must belong to a legal detatchment, though once again, yes, for our purposes, close enough as makes no difference.

Thanks for the clarifications guys, that's gone a fair way towards making me feel like I actually know what's going on.

As for it being worth it, I would ditch the Harlequins and use the points to take another aspect squad of your choosing to keep both the CAD (leaving the dire avengers in the CAD) and the aspect host (literally anything you pick will be fine, though I'd probably shy away from howling banshees and look at either fire dragons in a wave serpent or more reapers depending on how much armour you see).

The Harlies have got to stay (all hail fluff!), but I'm thinking you might be right about the weapon loadouts on the War Walkers. I've tried a new list:

Primary Detachment - Codex Craftworlds (Combined Arms)

HQ

(W) 1 Farseer, Singing Spear, Spirit Stones of Anath'Lan (120)
1 Farseer, Singing Spear (105)

Troops

10 Guardian Defenders, Scatter Laser (105)
5 Rangers (60)

Elites

5 Wraithblades with Ghost Axes and Forceshields (150)

Fast Attack

1 Vyper, Shuriken Cannon and Brightlance (60)
1 Vyper, Shuriken Cannon and Eldar Missile Launcher (65)

Heavy Support

3 War Walkers, 3 Scatter Lasers, 3 Starcannons (225)

Aspect Host Formation

10 Dire Avengers, Exarch with Power Weapon and Shimmershield (160)

6 Striking Scorpions, Exarch with Scorpion's Claw (142)

5 Dark Reapers, Exarch (140)

Allied Harlequin Detachment - Cast of Players

1 Troupe (7x Players, 1x Troupe Master), 3x Harlequin's Caress, 2x Harlequin's Embrace, Haywire Grenades (179)

1 Death Jester (60)

1 Shadowseer, Mastery Level 2, Mask of Secrets (75)

I've knocked off the Warlock Leader, and streamlined the WW's weapon choices. 5 Rangers make up the Troops choices, allowing me to use the Aspect Host to boost the Aspect Warriors, while still keeping ObSec. Also, I thing Rangers are cool, and they fit my fluff. The Harlequins have been changed to a CoP, in which the DJ is essentially a tax, but nothing fun comes free, right? The SS has been dropped down to ML1, given that his role is basically to keep Veil of Tears up, and hit things with his staff. If I could find the points, I'd rather keep him ML2 for LD shennanigans, but you can't always get what you want.

How does this look? Still not super beardy, I hope, but a little tidier. Any and all C&C greatly appeciated!

[Renegade Paladin]

Welp, that was quite the mistake then. I was playing guard, and by turn 4, having 4 S D vortexes running around my back line was appropriately devastating. Not to mention 1 shotting one of my Vendettas.

Blast weapons can't hit flyers.

[Blackhawk748]

Blast weapons can't hit flyers.

I think Death From the Skies or something added some rule about fliers with Blast weapons being able to shoot at other fliers with said weapon. That or im just thinking of the SPess Whoof flier.

[peacenlove]

I think Death From the Skies or something added some rule about fliers with Blast weapons being able to shoot at other fliers with said weapon. That or im just thinking of the SPess Whoof flier.

Q: Can a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature or Zooming Flyer be targeted by a Blast or Template weapon with the Skyfire special rule? A: No
From FAQ 22/11/2016
I think you might confuse that with the early FAQs which indeed allowed skyfire blasts to hit FMC/Fliers

[boomwolf]

Nobody uses anything that is written in DFTS, because its a really, really REALLY crappy book.

[Blackhawk748]

Q: Can a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature or ZoomingFlyer be targeted by a Blast or Template weapon with the Skyfirespecial rule?A: No
From FAQ 22/11/2016
I think you might confuse that with the early FAQs

Ok, then im just thinking of the Spess Whoof one, cuz its got something special (go figure) that lets it do that.

Nobody uses anything that is written in DFTS, because its a really, really REALLY crappy book.

Hey, i know that, and you know that, and the entire thread knows that, but do the people who still think Terminators are amazing know that?

[boomwolf]

Yes, even them.

To be honest though, these days you got a handful of good terminators out there.

[13_CBS]

As always with all casual lists, everything depends on your meta. The only way to figure out what your meta will 'let' you do, is to do it.

In that case, instead of a "casual" list, what about a list for YOUR meta? I know you're a competitive player but it sounds like even you wouldn't find a hyper-optimized Eldar Wraith list terribly fun to play against. What would a Wraith-themed list that you'd find enjoyable to play against look like?

[Renegade Paladin]

I dunno, the Dark Eldar player in my meta consistently wants to use Death From the Skies, and I have to keep stomping on him, because no, we are not adding a fifth phase to the game turn.

[Forum Explorer]

Given that, I'm starting to wonder if the Warlock Leader is worth it for the Guardians. I mean, the unit is basically there to take objectives and bring their Scatter Laser - I'm not sure how much the Warlock adds to this, he really only brings Conceal to the party, which is helpful, but by cutting him out, I think I could probably work in another Troops, meaning I can use the Aspect Host, and the Guardians get better at taking objectives. I guess there's his 'combat ability', but if the Guardians are in assault with anything half capabale, they're dead, Warlock or not.





Thanks for the clarifications guys, that's gone a fair way towards making me feel like I actually know what's going on.



The Harlies have got to stay (all hail fluff!), but I'm thinking you might be right about the weapon loadouts on the War Walkers. I've tried a new list:

Primary Detachment - Codex Craftworlds (Combined Arms)

HQ

(W) 1 Farseer, Singing Spear, Spirit Stones of Anath'Lan (120)
1 Farseer, Singing Spear (105)

Troops

10 Guardian Defenders, Scatter Laser (105)
5 Rangers (60)

Elites

5 Wraithblades with Ghost Axes and Forceshields (150)

Fast Attack

1 Vyper, Shuriken Cannon and Brightlance (60)
1 Vyper, Shuriken Cannon and Eldar Missile Launcher (65)

Heavy Support

3 War Walkers, 3 Scatter Lasers, 3 Starcannons (225)

Aspect Host Formation

10 Dire Avengers, Exarch with Power Weapon and Shimmershield (160)

6 Striking Scorpions, Exarch with Scorpion's Claw (142)

5 Dark Reapers, Exarch (140)

Allied Harlequin Detachment - Cast of Players

1 Troupe (7x Players, 1x Troupe Master), 3x Harlequin's Caress, 2x Harlequin's Embrace, Haywire Grenades (179)

1 Death Jester (60)

1 Shadowseer, Mastery Level 2, Mask of Secrets (75)

I've knocked off the Warlock Leader, and streamlined the WW's weapon choices. 5 Rangers make up the Troops choices, allowing me to use the Aspect Host to boost the Aspect Warriors, while still keeping ObSec. Also, I thing Rangers are cool, and they fit my fluff. The Harlequins have been changed to a CoP, in which the DJ is essentially a tax, but nothing fun comes free, right? The SS has been dropped down to ML1, given that his role is basically to keep Veil of Tears up, and hit things with his staff. If I could find the points, I'd rather keep him ML2 for LD shennanigans, but you can't always get what you want.

How does this look? Still not super beardy, I hope, but a little tidier. Any and all C&C greatly appeciated!

Don't underestimate Conceal when you are hiding in cover. But yeah, generally it's a safe bet to drop it.

You need to state which bonus the Aspect Host formation is giving. Likely the +1 BS.

I would advise against the Eldar Missile Launcher. They kinda suck for being so expensive. Another Brightlance would be better.

Q: Can a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature or Zooming Flyer be targeted by a Blast or Template weapon with the Skyfire special rule? A: No
From FAQ 22/11/2016
I think you might confuse that with the early FAQs which indeed allowed skyfire blasts to hit FMC/Fliers

Huh, I did think that was the other way around.

Blast weapons can't hit flyers.

I was in Hover mode at the time. It was the D3 Hull points lost that killed it.

[Caxton]

No idea how reliable to consider this...but...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40...nite_cultists/

Says that the rules don't stack, which is the worst possible interpretation from all standpoints. Wow, I hope it is false.

[Blackhawk748]

No idea how reliable to consider this...but...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40...nite_cultists/

Says that the rules don't stack, which is the worst possible interpretation from all standpoints. Wow, I hope it is false.

So, what you just roll twice and get 2 chances to get them back? Personally ithink thats dumb because who cares if you occasionally get a free cultist unit? They're Cultists for Nurgles sake, they suck! Let Alpha Legion have their goofy thing.

[Requizen]

A buddy is selling his Raven Guard army. Talon Strike Force with Demi Company, Shadowstrike Kill Team and Skyhammer Annihilation Force, less than half MSRP. I'm half tempted to buy it... though the wife would force me to sell a bunch of other stuff (probably all my Scions for starters).

[Cheesegear]

Given that, I'm starting to wonder if the Warlock Leader is worth it for the Guardians.

Guardian Defenders aren't worth it anyway. That's what Dire Avengers are for. But, yes...
The Warlorck Leader doesn't even give an extra point of Leadership to the unit, and that's as many as four tens, and that's terrible for a 'Sergeant' that costs 35 Points.

Conceal; Yep. 3+ Cover is for winners.
1. Does nothing.
Embolden; Gain Fearless. Fearless ObSec is for winners. But you're playing Eternal War, so this is less useful. But, Fearless is a rule that helps you stay on the board 'til the end of the game, so it isn't nothing.
3. Does nothing.
4. 4+ Armour means not dying to Boltguns, means staying on the board until the end of the game. Usually you'll be shooting for this Power on a Warlock in a unit of Defenders.
5. If you're not playing Maelstrom, this does nothing.
6. Does nothing.

So, 5/6 Powers are basically useless for Defenders, except for Embolden which is situational. Well, a lot of the Powers are situational, but the only reliable one is Protect. So, no. A Warlock is pretty bad, especially 'cause it doesn't even bring +1 Leadership like a 35 Point Character should.

I think I could probably work in another Troops, meaning I can use the Aspect Host, and the Guardians get better at taking objectives.

No they don't. The only use for Guardian Defenders in the real world, is with the Guardian Battlehost, and then they wont be ObSec either. Because ObSec'd Guardians don't matter, because they're T3 with a 5+ Save and will definitely be dead.

1 Farseer, Singing Spear, Spirit Stones of Anath'Lan (120)
1 Farseer, Singing Spear (105)

Singing Spears aren't worth it. In my meta (anecdotal evidence may not apply to everyone), Farseers with Singing Spears are allowed to count as Witchblades because Spears are dumb.

10 Guardian Defenders, Scatter Laser (105)
5 Rangers (60)

Scatter Lasers are bad when you only have one. Bring a Bright Lance instead.
You have 15 ObSec'd models with 5+ Saves. How do you even Score?

5 Wraithblades with Ghost Axes and Forceshields (150)

Solid.

1 Vyper, Shuriken Cannon and Brightlance (60)
1 Vyper, Shuriken Cannon and Eldar Missile Launcher (65)

I'm pretty sure that these would be better as a Squadron. They'd be even better if they weren't in the list at all.
Vypers are one of the very few actually bad units in the Eldar book. You should take almost anything else. More Guardians Dire Avengers in your Troops slots, for example.

3 War Walkers, 3 Scatter Lasers, 3 Starcannons (225)

I don't know why you'd have Scatter Lasers on War Walkers (you did that in 6th Ed., not in 7th). You already have Shuriken Cannons, and they Rend. The other option is to find a way to turn all the weapons into Starcannons. It doesn't look like you're trying to spam Farseers for Prescience or Misfortune, so Scatter Lasers aren't really worth it.

10 Dire Avengers, Exarch with Power Weapon and Shimmershield (160)
6 Striking Scorpions, Exarch with Scorpion's Claw (142)
5 Dark Reapers, Exarch (140)

Yep. Although I'd drop a few Dire Avengers, and add more Striking Scorpions.

1 Troupe (7x Players, 1x Troupe Master), 3x Harlequin's Caress, 2x Harlequin's Embrace, Haywire Grenades (179)
1 Death Jester (60)
1 Shadowseer, Mastery Level 2, Mask of Secrets (75)

Since you've already decided that the Harlequins have to stay, there's nothing I can say.

Any and all C&C greatly appeciated!

What's the points total for that army list?

What would a Wraith-themed list that you'd find enjoyable to play against look like?

In a CAD, and not a Wraith Host?
In my meta, Wraithblades aren't rated unless accompanied by a Farseer or two for Invisibility. Usually a Phoenix Lord is in there as well to pick up Challenges or bring some very high Initiative attacks. Asurmen or Jain Zar is the standard. Though Fuegan and Karandras have also been spotted more than zero times.

Wraithguard aren't rated unless they have the D-Scythes, and only then, only in a Webway Portal. With the regular weapons, they're not rated unless you have 2 or 3 of them, and if you're taking three units of Wraithguard with the point-and-shoot weapons instead of the Templates that auto-hit, you may as well just be running the Wraith Host and give them all re-rolls To Hit so it actually matters.

So...Don't do those things, and you'll have a 'Wraith' list that's fun to play against.

Says that the rules don't stack, which is the worst possible interpretation from all standpoints.

It is terrible RAW. But using Lost and the Damned in the Insurgency Force is one of the worst ways to play Alpha Legion. It's not good and it sucks. In Alpha Legion, Cultists belong in a CAD, or in a Lost and the Damned Detachment added to another Legion. Who needs Infiltrating Cultists that aren't even ObSec'd, when Alpha Legion have access to Infiltrating Warbands in Rhinos?
The only reason to ever run a Lost and the Damned Formation in an MFD, is if it's Core, and it's not. Except in Traitor's Hate where Cultists re-rolling on the Boon Table turns a 14 Point model into a 145 Point model on Turn 1.

So I don't care about the bad ruling, because it's crap anyway, and now it's more crap. So what's the change? You shouldn't be taking it before, and you certainly aren't taking it now. There's no problem.

[Cheesegear]

Stuff went up, it's basically a 25% discount if you want the models in the box.

Warrior Ark Phalanx: Warriors are fine. Scarabs will get you to a Canoptek Harvest. Ghost Arks are not okay. If Warriors need to get anywhere, they should be teleporting or in a Night Scythe. Not good.

Tervigon Brood Progenitor: Yes. Similar to the Tau Start Collecting! box, everytime you buy a Tervigon now, pay $10 to get Termagants and a Ripper base. One of the biggest problems with Tervigons is getting the Termagants to make them actually matter. Now that you can buy 12 Termagants for the price of 5, Tyranid players should be real happy.

Blood Angels Gauntlet Tactical Squad: Blood Angels get Heavy Flamers in their Tactical Squads, and ObSec'd Drop Pods are for winners. This isn't good. In fact, you may even say that this is bad. 25% discount or not.

Dark Angels Gauntlet: Well, again, the only reason to take Tactical Marines is for Dedicated Drop Pods. If you aren't abusing Drop Pods, then you should use Scouts instead. PROTIP: The only reason competitive Space Marine (including Dark Angels) players don't use Scouts, is because the Battle Demi-Company exists. CAD-Marines use Scouts or Tacticals in Drop Pods, no middle ground. If forming The Lion's Blade, don't be afraid to pick up the Space Marine one.

Dark Eldar Skysplinter: A Venom would be better. But Raiders with Splinter Racks is a very close second. The only way to play Dark Eldar is spamming Transports, and now the units you want come at 25% discount. If you were to play Dark Eldar, but a Start Collecting! box, and then spam this box. As mentioned, you don't get Venoms, but you do get discounted (in currency) Raiders, and that does make up the difference. Especially for casuals.

Ork Trukk Boyz: Yep. If you aren't going to buy x20 or x30 Boyz in one slot, you'd better be buying a Trukk. Now all's you need is the 4+ Big Meks with KFFs to make it viable.

Astra Militarum Cadian Armoured Fist: Mech is Still King.

Chaos Space Marines Chaos Desolator Squad: It's so Chaos they named it twice! With Warbands being almost mandatory for all Legions and Cultists getting put on the shelf, throwing in a Dedicated Rhino isn't actually an awful idea. Even World Eaters like Rhinos (even if they don't get in them) for access to Dirge Casters, and, if your opponent deploys first against World Eaters and actually asks to see your army list, he may do the one defense against that works most of the time - deploy slightly back - and in that case, World Eaters still need Rhinos.

Space Wolves Skyhammer Wolf Pack: If you're a Space Wolf player and actually care about your Troops units; Yes. ObSec'd Drop Pods are for winners.

Tau Optimised Pathfinder Team: Way to fail in your advertising, GW. Pathfinders aren't Troops. This box is actually almost bad because you have no use whatsoever for Pathfinders. However, this box is made up for by the Tau Start Collecting! box basically being the best. Because Farsight is the best.

Eldar Dire Avenger Skyblade: If you aren't running Jetbikes, this is the next best thing for Eldar.

Space Marines Skyhammer Tactical Squad: Buy three of these for x3 Drop Pods. Buy three of the Dark Angels' ones for the Rhinos. Buy a Devastator kit for Heavy weapons. You're most of the way to a Gladius/Lion's Blade. Winnar.

When it comes to Troops (Objective Secured), Mech is Still - usually - King, and most of these boxes are where it's at for all Factions. The only true failure of the bunch is the Tau box, because Pathfinders aren't Troops. The Necron one isn't good because Ghost Arks aren't good anyway, and the only way to screw up a Blood Angels' Tactical Squad is to give them a Rhino instead of a Drop Pod - oh look!

[Bobby Baratheon]

What would be the best way to use assassins in a Dark Angels army? I could see taking one or two Callidus and infiltrating them right next to the warlord for a turn one charge and a VP point. Vindicare seems pretty sweet but one shot per turn kind of limits his contributions to transport popping/special weapon sniping, which could be worth his cost but isn't necessarily. Eversor could mulch hordes, but I would prefer to just drop pod in some double flamer assault sqauds with a fulmination librarian if that's the case. Culexus could see some use against psychic heavy armies, but requires me to use my own psychic charges to power him. Meh. Everyone shooting snap shots against him could make him a decent DISTRACTION CULEXUS if I infiltrate him right in front of something important.

I'm willing to tailor my list to accomodate/synergize with the assassins, but I'm not really looking for anything super cheesy or gimmicky. I tend to use mechanized greenwing in a Lion's Blade with either scouts or Ravenwing filling in the rest of the points. Which assassins would synergize best?

EDIT: I can kinda of sorta see a high point game list with Azrael (who could be attached to Guard blob with a priest for an immovable objective camping unit) and a Callidus and maybe a Eversor. Azrael modifies Seize the Initiative by one, Callidus grants rerolls. 5+ rerollable gives me a good shot of going first, where the Eversor and the Callidus can plow into something valuable (Eversor's 3d6 charge range hopefully making up for not being able to deploy right next to the enemy). Combined with drop pod spam and some infilitrating scouts, that could be a pretty sweet alpha strike.

[Forum Explorer]

Guardian Defenders aren't worth it anyway. That's what Dire Avengers are for. But, yes...
The Warlorck Leader doesn't even give an extra point of Leadership to the unit, and that's as many as four tens, and that's terrible for a 'Sergeant' that costs 35 Points.

Conceal; Yep. 3+ Cover is for winners.
1. Does nothing.
Embolden; Gain Fearless. Fearless ObSec is for winners. But you're playing Eternal War, so this is less useful. But, Fearless is a rule that helps you stay on the board 'til the end of the game, so it isn't nothing.
3. Does nothing.
4. 4+ Armour means not dying to Boltguns, means staying on the board until the end of the game. Usually you'll be shooting for this Power on a Warlock in a unit of Defenders.
5. If you're not playing Maelstrom, this does nothing.
6. Does nothing.

So, 5/6 Powers are basically useless for Defenders, except for Embolden which is situational. Well, a lot of the Powers are situational, but the only reliable one is Protect. So, no. A Warlock is pretty bad, especially 'cause it doesn't even bring +1 Leadership like a 35 Point Character should.

Renewer is amazing if you have an Avatar, Wraithlord, or Wraithknight on the field.
Drain can be good to set up a charge by a melee unit.

Neither benefits the Guardians themselves, but can help the rest of the army out immensely.

[Drasius]

You can't charge if you infiltrate. Assassins are best left on the shelf most of the time unless you have a cunning plan.

[Bobby Baratheon]

You can't charge if you infiltrate. Assassins are best left on the shelf most of the time unless you have a cunning plan.

Huh. Kind of makes the whole "deploy 1" from enemy unit" thing kind of worthless.

[LeSwordfish]

Same she doesn't have some kind of.... like, some kind of Poisoned(2+) AP2 Flamer? And Invisibility to weather return fire. If only she had both of those, then it would be really good. But alas.