This is a weird one: names for sub-classes

[dropbear8mybaby]

This is a bit hard to explain so please bear with me.

I'm making entirely new classes for my homebrew system. The concepts behind them are solid but it's the names for them that are tripping me up. There's a strange disconnect between names of classes and their real world counterparts. For instance, an assassin is a term that everyone knows and understands and so it's easily accepted into the vernacular despite the fact that it's based on a term that was a popularisation of a myth, and that myth has very little to do with the concept of assassins as a fantasy trope, and originates from a language other than English.

But it works, because we all know what it is, and we don't question it.

For some classes I can use similar logic. For instance, I am making the Warrior class with the Barbarian, Man-At-Arms, and Mercenary sub-classes. Those names all work just fine even though they're perversions and evolutions of non-English terms, they've been around and accepted as conveying a certain meaning for long enough, especially within gaming culture, that there's no issue with using them.

But then we come to something different, something that uses non-English terms but because of it's commonly accepted meaning, draws people out of their suspension of disbelief and causes them to stop and question its validity. As an example, I have an Ascetic class. Nothing wrong with that, until we get to the sub-class terms. I have three sub-classes, one based on wushu kung fu, one based on pankration and another based on the shinobi. But if I use those terms, it makes people think that the culture is Chinese/Greek/Japanese, rather than just being inspired by them.

But I also can't just make up new terms. What would you call a Pankratiast? A wushu kung fu practitioner? A ninja?

It's created a really strange disconnect for me where I cannot think of a good name or even way to approach naming these sub-classes. The setting cultures they're based on are only loosely inspired by the cultures of these martial arts disciplines. I have my own languages for these cultures but using those terms conveys zero meaning to a reader. They may as well just be gibberish. If I wrote them as a kajae musai, you'd not be inspired with images of a ninja warrior in your mind.

So what to do?

[Agrippa]

Well, I'm working on a similar project, a bizarre mash-up Star Wars Saga Edition, Basic Fantasy RPG and certain elements of 3.5 D&D, first party Pathfinder and third party Pathfinder. The basic idea is that there will be a total of six primary classes and up to five sub classes for each. The six primary classes, with current sub classes are...

Warrior (My mash-up game's primary combatant class. Best attack progression, widest array of weaponry and a shared class feature referred to as combat options, so named after BECMI D&D's fight combat options.)

• Battle dancer (Lightly armored or unarmored warrior that focuses on speed and maneuverability. It's main defense comes from dodging and avoiding hits. Capable of deadly acrobatic strikes.)
• Berserker (Lightly armored to moderately armored warrior capable of flying into a terrifying frenzied rage. Gets Pathfinderesque rage powers.)
• Brawler (Lightly armored or unarmored warrior skilled at making things stop living with his/her fists and other extremities. Pretty good with blunt weapons too, especially two-handed ones. Can learn degrees in dirty fighting and pugilistic arts.)
• Slayer (Martially inclined assassin type, think John Wick for a start. Good at stalking, hiding, killing from stealth and fighting. Can take a bit of a beating. Can learn degrees and dirty fighting.)
• Warder (Full armor knight-like warrior that balances offense with shield/parrying based defense. Good at defending themselves and others from attack, both physical and magical. Has class features dedicated to enhanced defense from shields or two-handed weapons and improved maneuverability in armor.)

Magician (This is the basic over all spell caster class. If someone's a primary spell caster they have levels in at least one magician sub class. Each sub class uses a separate spell casting subsystem.)

• Incantor (Spheres of Power based full caster. Not much more to say.)
• Occultist (A not explicitly shadow base mystery using sub class based on jiriku's shadowcaster remix. Some of the mysteries are more ritualistic in nature.)
• Mystic (I'm thinking of a sub class roughly like the arcanist, but the mystic's "spell book" is his/her surroundings. When preparing a spell mystics tap into the physical and metaphysical underpinnings of their current location and "read" it for magical power to draw upon. A mystic can hold a prepared spell indefinitely, only to release it to prepare another spell in its place. They tend to range from eccentric to bizarre and unstable)
• Sage (Sort of like a standard wizard, but with only 3 spell slots + 1/2 spell slots per class level (maximum 13). Any level of spell can be prepared in any one slot, but only one slot can be assigned any one spell at a time. However, even a an aspiring sage can maintain enough power to cast a spell more than once per preparation slot.)
• Sorcerer (3.5/Dreamscarred Press psionics as innate magic.)

Orator/Mediator (My own take on a bard/noble class. Don't be gentle.)

• Charmer
• Consul
• Courtier
• Firebrand
• Herald

Trickster (My general rogue class.)

• Daredevil
• Infiltrator
• Saboteur
• Stalker
• Thief

Polymath (Hybrid classes with 3/4 casting and features drawn from up to three other classes.)

• Beast Mage (A mystic/slayer/skirmisher hybrid. Unlike a mystic, a beast mage can permanently learn spells, by studying, consuming or withstanding attack from certain creature types. Spells to be learned come from a list determined by both the creature's hit dice, type, sub-types and spell-like abilities and spells, if any. I'll try to get to work on a full list later. This is basically the blue mage class.)
• Battle Magus (Battle dancer, brawler or warder/sorcerer hybrid with a reflavored psychic warrior power list.)
• Mentat (A mix of saboteur, sage and any warrior sub class except warder. Combines trap removal, lock picking, construct critical and precision damage dealing and engineering bonuses with scholarly, slot based magic and notable martial skill. Also grants magical bomb making, enhanced crafting and potion making and bardic knowledge.)
• War Weaver (Battle dancer or warder mixed with incanter.)
• Zealot (Berserker or warder/occultist/firebrand combination that has access to dragon shaman-style auras, as well as marshal ones.)

Scout

• Courser
• Hunter
• Ranger
• Skirmisher
• Sniper

[smasher0404]

For the wushu king fu guy, you could use martial artist? And for Pankration is there anything wrong with the term Wrestler or Grapple?

[dropbear8mybaby]

For the wushu king fu guy, you could use martial artist? And for Pankration is there anything wrong with the term Wrestler or Grapple?

Martial artist is problematic not because it's a literal translation of the term wushu kung fu, but because of the Western understanding of the term as encompassing not only all hand-to-hand combat styles but other martial arts like longsword, rapier, etc.

This entire problem is basically one of perception and creating the right perception in the lay reader.

As for wrestler/grappler, that's not an accurate representation of pankration or of the style of fighting I'm trying to allude to and represent.

[dps]

But I also can't just make up new terms.

Why not?

What would you call a Pankratiast? A wushu kung fu practitioner? A ninja?

I didn't even know what a Pankratiast was without looking it up on Wikipedia. So without looking it up, you easily could have made up a term for it and it would have conveyed just as much information to me (which is to say, none). Call it a wobiani, a brolmoson, or praviateric, and it would have been all the same. In fact, if you don't want people to equate the sub-class with ancient Greek culture, they would actually be better, because they're made-up words that can't be looked up on Wiki.

Having read the description on Wiki, though, maybe call it Mixed Martial Artist. Or maybe that implies something you don't want to imply, either. Maybe Brawler?

Kung fu? Try Open-hand Fighter (and yes, IIRC, that's actually an approximate translation for karate, not kung fu, but so what?).

Ninja? How about Nightblade? (Stole that from The Elder Scrolls.)

[/QUOTE]

[Anderlith]

Technician- kung fu
Grappler- Pankratiast
Shadow- Ninja


Since all modern wrestling came in large part from pankration, & everyone sees grapples as the basis for all wresting grappler should be fine.

[dropbear8mybaby]

Why not?

As I explained, they are meaningless terms to anyone not intimately familiar with my setting. That doesn't create a good first impression or convey an understanding of the class's function.

I didn't even know what a Pankratiast was without looking it up on Wikipedia.

That's why I said it was one of the reasons why I couldn't use that term.

Maybe Brawler?

Brawler implies a lack of discipline. The primary class is Ascetic. Plus it just doesn't fit the concept of a pankratiast which is essentially a Mixed Martial Artist.

Since all modern wrestling came in large part from pankration, & everyone sees grapples as the basis for all wresting grappler should be fine.

Pankration isn't solely wrestling.

[JBPuffin]

Pankration isn't solely wrestling.

You're asking for lay readability; for someone uninitiated with the fighting style, and considering they're based on the styles and not literally using them, a more generic term is better even if it glosses over some technicalities. Simply put, use generic words or thesaurus some that match better; there's only so much the existing language can cover, and sometimes you make do for the sake of the audience at the expense of your personal preference.

[Waddacku]

Given they're in the context of the Ascetic superclass, if you went with say, Stylist and Champion for the kung fu and the pankration, I think the image should be properly conveyed.
For the ninja, obviously any of the multitudes of shadow-night-sneak-assassin word combinations out there would work. Actually, some of them would just go right back to screaming "NINJA!" at readers, so you'd still have to be a little careful.

[Anderlith]

Pankration isn't solely wrestling.

I know. I said as much. You asked for generalities. Dont be upset if generalities dont focus on the particulars. The basis of most of pankration is grabbing your opponent, thus grappler.

Technicians perform techniques, though i kind of like stylist more.

Shadow is as generic as you can get without beimg poetic or cultural.

[Waddacku]

Oh, Agent could also work for the ninja one.