Roleplaying A Jerk Who's Neutral Good

[Bartmanhomer]

OK tomorrow I'm start playing A Male Drow Rogue who act like a total jerk but really Neutral Good in Dungeons and Dragons 3.5. He sometimes get into arguments and disagreements with his party members but he's not physically violent and he's really a good Drow in heart. So how can I pull off a Neutral Good character who's a jerk?

[Koo Rehtorb]

Call them all fat and ugly and shake your lustrous white mane about like a playboy.

[Bartmanhomer]

Call them all fat and ugly and shake your lustrous white mane about like a playboy.

Nice. I'll call them names.

[PhoenixPhyre]

OK tomorrow I'm start playing A Male Drow Rogue who act like a total jerk but really Neutral Good in Dungeons and Dragons 3.5. He sometimes get into arguments and disagreements with his party members but he's not physically violent and he's really a good Drow in heart. So how can I pull off a Neutral Good character who's a jerk?

I'm going to start by saying that if it were me, I wouldn't want a jerk in the party regardless of their alignment. It's very very very hard to play a lovable jerk. It's easy to be a jerk, hard to be one that the party wants to have around.

Neutral Good (to me at least) implies that you are more concerned with the success and "good" of others than with the means used to get there. You're pragmatic and focused on helping others. Good is more important than law or chaos. That doesn't jibe well with "argumentative pain-in-the-posterior." I'd recommend focusing your jerk-ish nature to something that doesn't apply to the party much.

I'll give an example. I have a player in one of my games (I'm the DM) who's a stuck-up, prissy high elf. He's racist (especially against goblins), looks down on others as "lower" or "dirty", but always works well with the party. The party's needs come first. Also, his character is misguided, but generally a good guy. They ended up trying to be diplomatic with a goblin tribe (as a note, goblins are not evil in my world). The goblin children picked up (as children do) that he didn't like them and started bugging him (also as children do). Even with a language barrier (they didn't speak common, he didn't speak goblin), he started to soften up his approach and eventually became playful with them and was a significant asset in improving the tribe's attitude toward the party. It made for great, laid back role-play. One of the other characters used his skills to incite the children to pester the elf. A third (the only one who spoke goblin) did the talking.

Thus--find something tangential to be a jerk about. Maybe you don't like the fashion-sense of another character. Maybe you particularly don't like a certain race (but are willing to make exceptions). Basically, be a jerk only on the very outermost layer. Also, make sure to OOC describe your character so that the other players don't think you (as a player) are a jerk.

[Celestia]

Make them lunches and then call them idiots and reassure them that you don't actually like them and that you just made too much on accident.

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm going to start by saying that if it were me, I wouldn't want a jerk in the party regardless of their alignment. It's very very very hard to play a lovable jerk. It's easy to be a jerk, hard to be one that the party wants to have around.

Neutral Good (to me at least) implies that you are more concerned with the success and "good" of others than with the means used to get there. You're pragmatic and focused on helping others. Good is more important than law or chaos. That doesn't jibe well with "argumentative pain-in-the-posterior." I'd recommend focusing your jerk-ish nature to something that doesn't apply to the party much.

I'll give an example. I have a player in one of my games (I'm the DM) who's a stuck-up, prissy high elf. He's racist (especially against goblins), looks down on others as "lower" or "dirty", but always works well with the party. The party's needs come first. Also, his character is misguided, but generally a good guy. They ended up trying to be diplomatic with a goblin tribe (as a note, goblins are not evil in my world). The goblin children picked up (as children do) that he didn't like them and started bugging him (also as children do). Even with a language barrier (they didn't speak common, he didn't speak goblin), he started to soften up his approach and eventually became playful with them and was a significant asset in improving the tribe's attitude toward the party. It made for great, laid back role-play. One of the other characters used his skills to incite the children to pester the elf. A third (the only one who spoke goblin) did the talking.

Thus--find something tangential to be a jerk about. Maybe you don't like the fashion-sense of another character. Maybe you particularly don't like a certain race (but are willing to make exceptions). Basically, be a jerk only on the very outermost layer. Also, make sure to OOC describe your character so that the other players don't think you (as a player) are a jerk.

Well my character have a hard time trusting people in the beginning. Until during the roleplaying my character learn to trust the party members.

[Geddy2112]

Good and jerk normally come in the LG or CG variety, an NG jerk is certainly pretty rare. LG hard ass cops with a heart of gold, and CG bitter cynics who fight for noble causes are common tropes, but I can't think of a single NG jerk.

To be NG and a jerk, you have to really think that being hostile towards others is the objectively righteous and good cause. The only way I could see that is to keep others away-maybe your quest for goodness is dangerous, or maybe you are just prone to hurting others emotionally(although you try not to). Being a jerk keeps them from getting close, and having feels for you so they would risk their lives. You don't want them falling on any swords, despite the fact that you would do it in an instant for somebody else. You keep them away-they can't be attached and need something to jade them enough to cope with your inevitable death, or it is better they only somewhat like you, rather than a lifetime of broken hearts when they get too close and it all goes south.

That said, I second approaching playing a jerk with extreme caution. I am in a game with a "tsundere" character, but she is less tsundere and more just a hostile and utterly awful person to be around. CG and well within alignment, but it certainly kills the fun. Likewise, she has made no attempt to even try and be anything but an awful female dog to the majority of the party, despite us throwing kindness at her.

Keep in mind if you are too untrusting and jerkish, other characters won't even approach or try to get to know you, they will hate and resent you. You have to be willing to lower your guard, not throw "I am a jerk love me" at them and make them play your minigame so you stop treating them like garbage.

[Mr Beer]

Character sounds insufferable already but if you gave me that on a piece of paper and told me to play it, this is how I'd do it:

Drow are evil, my snowflake PC is Good with a capital G. So in order to be annoying, he would talk interminably about how terrible Drow society is (in excruciatingly explicit detail) and then explain how tough it was to be a Good guy in that awful, awful place. I'd be boring and oblivious to social cues and extremely self righteous.

I'd create half-a-dozen lengthy anecdotes, tell them all to the party several times and then tell them to every NPC that comes along. I'd try to get it to the point where as soon as I said "So, this one time? With giant spiders?", every other player yells the punchline in an exasperated fashion and throws empty chip packets at me.

Actually, now I think I want to play a NG jerkface Drow.

[Bartmanhomer]

Character sounds insufferable already but if you gave me that on a piece of paper and told me to play it, this is how I'd do it:

Drow are evil, my snowflake PC is Good with a capital G. So in order to be annoying, he would talk interminably about how terrible Drow society is (in excruciatingly explicit detail) and then explain how tough it was to be a Good guy in that awful, awful place. I'd be boring and oblivious to social cues and extremely self righteous.

I'd create half-a-dozen lengthy anecdotes, tell them all to the party several times and then tell them to every NPC that comes along. I'd try to get it to the point where as soon as I said "So, this one time? With giant spiders?", every other player yells the punchline in an exasperated fashion and throws empty chip packets at me.

Actually, now I think I want to play a NG jerkface Drow.

That sound a lot like the TV show Becker would say.

[Herobizkit]

From tvtropes:

Tsundere: Aloof and rude to people in general, beneath that a fun-loving prankster Jerk Ass to his circle of friends, and beneath that has a genuine heart and sincerely cares deeply about his friends.

Harsh (or Tsun): These Tsundere have tsuntsun as their default mood. It takes someone special to trigger their deredere (Sweet) side. The intensity of the tsuntsun can range from simple grumpy pessimism (Kagami of Lucky Star) to "I must glare and fight my way through life" (Louise of The Familiar of Zero). It's about which part of the tsundere personality is the public face and which the hidden.

IMO, Wolverine is kind of like this: gruff and rude to strangers, but super-sweet over select individuals and a team player when necessary.

To continue with NG, back to tvtropes:

Passively Good — [NG people] have fairly normal lives and ambitions, but will do good as the situation arises. They will help anyone they come across who needs it, then get back to their normal routine. They are most likely to be good towards family, friends, and those within their social circle (if they are a Jerk with a Heart of Gold, to the extent allowed), though they have no issue with helping strangers. They may even do volunteer work or other do-gooding that they find personally satisfying. At the same time, they do not view Good as the concept that defines their lives — for them, Goodness is an obligation, or even just their nature. They will do what Good they like or what needs to be done, and then they will go home and carry on as normal.

Neutral Good can be the best alignment you can be because it means doing what is good without bias for or against order. Neutral Good characters value freedom and will protect others' freedom as long as it's not used to do harm.

Question is, how did your Drow become NG? :)

[Bartmanhomer]

From tvtropes:



IMO, Wolverine is kind of like this: gruff and rude to strangers, but super-sweet over select individuals and a team player when necessary.

To continue with NG, back to tvtropes:



Question is, how did your Drow become NG? :)

Well just to let you know. HD was born with a family of reform Drow rogues. His father was a rogue/fighter, his mother a rogue/cleric (Correllon Latherian) and his little sister a rogue/wizard. His parents taught him the ways of the rogue and how to be a good Drow. The ways he become a complete jerk was all started his teenage years. Teenage rebellion that is. But he loves his family and friends. He also taught other male Drow (which he friends with) how to be a rogue. He's happen to have a girlfriend who he loves so much. Despite his tough and macho posterior he really cares for his girlfriend so much. That the character story.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Any character can be disagreeable and lawful. Think about the inbound President of the U.S. He is pretty lawful and does what he believes is good. BUT, many people find him quite jerk like.

......

At work I am plenty lawful but the boss uses me something like his hammer because I have no need for people to like me. So, I am lawful but come off as annoyingly right.

[kyoryu]

Yeah, I think Wolverine is a good example, actually.

At your heart you're good, but you come across gruff and brusque. Sometimes you tell it like it is, and don't sugar coat it. It's not that you're trying to be mean, it's just that people need to know things and all that extra fluff gets in the way. It's life or death, after all, and not telling someone their weaknesses or errors to be nice just sets them up to be dead.

Another thing might be an inability to see other peoples' points of views.

Now... you've described your character as untrusting and a jerk. Why? Why is this a good character? Why would people want to spend time with this guy?

[Knaight]

Any character can be disagreeable and lawful. Think about the inbound President of the U.S. He is pretty lawful and does what he believes is good. BUT, many people find him quite jerk like.

I'm not touching the politics here, and not getting into the specifics of the lawful versus chaotic thing. What I will say is that "does what he believes is good" is a category that the vast majority of people fit in*, including the vast majority of people who do horrific things. It's pretty meaningless.

*The pronoun needs swapping and there's a population chunk of small children who aren't yet thinking in that level of sophistication, but even without that it comes close to 50%.

[Bartmanhomer]

Any character can be disagreeable and lawful. Think about the inbound President of the U.S. He is pretty lawful and does what he believes is good. BUT, many people find him quite jerk like.

......

At work I am plenty lawful but the boss uses me something like his hammer because I have no need for people to like me. So, I am lawful but come off as annoyingly right.

You do realizes that talking about politics here is against forum rules.

[eru001]

Be the hard individual. Not hard as in difficult, hard as in willing to make the hard choices. Your character will choose to do the morally right thing. Not the kind one. And he won't always be nice about it.

Be willing to "Shoot the Dog" when necessary for the cause of good.

When someone makes an evil decision, call them out. Not in the palidan holier than thou way, but just "that was wrong, you ****" be rude but right.

The tricky part is making it clear that you do care about the party. You are harsh because you care. And that needs to be clear.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

You do realizes that talking about politics here is against forum rules.

My apologies. I meant to present it in a neutral manor.

[LibraryOgre]

While it can depend on a lot of factors, a good solution is to be tactlessly honest, while also being rude. It's a bit harder to convey in gaming, but simply telling people the truth about your feelings can go a long way to making someone seem like a jerk.

[Flickerdart]

OK tomorrow I'm start playing A Male Drow Rogue who act like a total jerk but really Neutral Good in Dungeons and Dragons 3.5. He sometimes get into arguments and disagreements with his party members but he's not physically violent and he's really a good Drow in heart. So how can I pull off a Neutral Good character who's a jerk?

Be really, really preachy. You help someone? Tell them that they should help other people like you helped them, tell bystanders that they should help people like you helped that guy just now, tell your party members to look upon you as an example. When you see a paladin, tell him that he's putting in good effort, but he should try harder.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Make them lunches and then call them idiots and reassure them that you don't actually like them and that you just made too much on accident.

Spoiler: My name is Sugiura Ayano

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[Bartmanhomer]

Yeah, I think Wolverine is a good example, actually.

At your heart you're good, but you come across gruff and brusque. Sometimes you tell it like it is, and don't sugar coat it. It's not that you're trying to be mean, it's just that people need to know things and all that extra fluff gets in the way. It's life or death, after all, and not telling someone their weaknesses or errors to be nice just sets them up to be dead.

Another thing might be an inability to see other peoples' points of views.

Now... you've described your character as untrusting and a jerk. Why? Why is this a good character? Why would people want to spend time with this guy?

Because he's good company at times.

[Max_Killjoy]

There is a limit to how much of a "jerk" someone can be and still be what I'd consider actually "good".

Plus, I think this is just one of those things that works in fiction (or rather, that people think works in fiction...), but doesn't translate to RPGs or real life. There's a limit to how much of a jerk you can be before people just start avoiding you, especially if they're not forced to be around you by things like work.

[kyoryu]

Because he's good company at times.

I'm just saying that there's almost always enough party conflict *without* people creating characters that are deliberately designed to cause party conflict.

[Jay R]

This is a potential problem for the game, unless the other players like the idea.

So ask the other players if they'd like to play with such a character in the party.

If they are willing, then get their ideas on how to play it. That way, there's no misunderstanding, and you'll play it in a way the makes the game fun for everybody.

[If they aren't willing to play with such a teammate, then drop the idea.]

[Bartmanhomer]

This is a potential problem for the game, unless the other players like the idea.

So ask the other players if they'd like to play with such a character in the party.

If they are willing, then get their ideas on how to play it. That way, there's no misunderstanding, and you'll play it in a way the makes the game fun for everybody.

[If they aren't willing to play with such a teammate, then drop the idea.]

I did warn the other players and the DM about my character starting arugments and disagreements with my party.

[The Glyphstone]

Because he's good company at times.

If he's constantly argumentative and disagreeable, why would he be good company? What does he do that makes people like him or want him around them?

[Bartmanhomer]

If he's constantly argumentative and disagreeable, why would he be good company? What does he do that makes people like him or want him around them?

Because he's a funny jerk that's why.

[Keltest]

Because he's a funny jerk that's why.

First off, I think it should be said that deliberately playing a jerk is asking for out of character problems and is something to be avoided. But if you intend to do so anyway...

Funny to who? Jerks often consider themselves to be hilarious, but the reason theyre called "jerks" and not 'comic relief" is because nobody else finds them funny. I would beware of falling into the trap of using "being funny" as a redeeming character trait at all. For one, its hard to pull off. For another, whenever you fail to be funny, then youre just being a bad person, and that will wear thin VERY quickly.

Instead I would advise heading in the bluntly honest direction. You wont hesitate to insult somebody to their face as long as it contains something constructive (youre a crap archer, either invest some resources in getting better or stop touching bows), but at the same time wont hesitate to tell people good things about them either, when they ask. The fact that you aren't afraid to insult somebody when you have a low opinion of them adds a level of reassurance when you do compliment somebody that somebody with more tact might not be able to muster. Also, make sure you don't say things specifically to hurt somebody. It needs to be constructive criticism, just tactless.

[Bartmanhomer]

First off, I think it should be said that deliberately playing a jerk is asking for out of character problems and is something to be avoided. But if you intend to do so anyway...

Funny to who? Jerks often consider themselves to be hilarious, but the reason theyre called "jerks" and not 'comic relief" is because nobody else finds them funny. I would beware of falling into the trap of using "being funny" as a redeeming character trait at all. For one, its hard to pull off. For another, whenever you fail to be funny, then youre just being a bad person, and that will wear thin VERY quickly.

Instead I would advise heading in the bluntly honest direction. You wont hesitate to insult somebody to their face as long as it contains something constructive (youre a crap archer, either invest some resources in getting better or stop touching bows), but at the same time wont hesitate to tell people good things about them either, when they ask. The fact that you aren't afraid to insult somebody when you have a low opinion of them adds a level of reassurance when you do compliment somebody that somebody with more tact might not be able to muster. Also, make sure you don't say things specifically to hurt somebody. It needs to be constructive criticism, just tactless.

Ok, I understand that. Is just that my character got a strong and tough opinion on everything.

[kyoryu]

So, really, at this point it seems you're set on this course, despite a bunch of us saying that we see... areas to be cautious of.

The only real thing to do at this point is to talk to the rest of the group about your character, and see if they're okay with it. Because, at the end of the day, they're the ones that matter, not us.