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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Spell Steal[Peach]

    Classes: Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard

    Spell Steal
    2nd level transmutation
    Casting Time: 1 Action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Instantaneous

    Choose one creature within range that you can see and make a ranged spell attack against that creature. If you hit with the attack, you leech spellcasting energy from it and it loses spell slots, totaling 1d4 spell levels. The target loses the highest-level spell slots it has available first.
    Casting at Higher-Levels: If you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, increase the die to the next in row for each level of the spell slot used to a maximum of 1d10 (that is, 1d6 for 3rd level, 1d8 for 4th level, 1d10 for 5th level and higher)

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Back home
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Spell Steal[Peach]

    Class Feature Steal
    2nd Level Spell
    Make a ranged spell attack against the target. If the target of your spell has the martial maneuver, action surge, rage, sneak attack, wild shape, channel divinity, martial arts, extra attack, or Ki feature, they lose 1d4 uses of those features.

    At Higher Levels: When cast at a higher level, the die used to determine losses changes to a d6 at 3rd level, a d8 at 4th level, and a d10 at 5th level.

    Your version may be a little better than that in terms of balance, but I still think it's a seriously unfun mechanic.

    I am totally uncomfortable with this spell. It actually Takes Away a person's class features, and having it target the higher level ones first makes it even worse. Furthermore, this spell is WAY too variable in effectiveness, being able to remove the enemy's capacity to, say, polymorph or dimension door if you roll a 4, vs their ability to use shield or faerie fire if you roll a 1.
    Last edited by Potato_Priest; 2017-01-14 at 01:34 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2015

    Default Re: Spell Steal[Peach]

    Wow, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, we have a spell that would absolutely have been invented in a mid-to-high magic world, and is appropriate in that sense. On the other hand, it would be super frustrating if an enemy used this on you, since it is so abuse-able. On a different hand, nothing is more satisfying as a player than doing just that to an enemy. On yet another hand, its mechanics work so much better against PCs, because most casting enemies have innate spellcasting or simply "Fireball 3/day" instead of actual slots.

    Don't know what to think, but thanks for giving me TWO EXTRA ARMS.

    EDIT: Definitely get rid of the whole 2nd-level-spell-prevents-4th-level-spell thing. Make it more like a preemptive Counterspell:

    Mana Leech:
    1st level transmutation
    1 action
    60 feet
    V,S,M(an actual leech, which the spell consumes)
    Make a ranged spell attack against a target within range. If you hit them, they lose one 1st level spell slot, or one casting of a 1st level spell, if the target has Innate Spellcasting.
    At higher levels: if you cast Mana Leech with a 2nd level slot or higher, the target loses slots or castings equal to the slot level you used.
    Last edited by SilverStud; 2017-01-16 at 12:07 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: Spell Steal[Peach]

    The mana leech version, while more balanced, really becomes all but a useless spell once you get counterspell.

    While Mana leech takes away an unspecified spell slot of X level, counterspell allows you to make targeted removal of spells. Not only that, it is possible with counterspell to remove a higher level spell with a little luck whereas mana leech doesn't have such a capacity.

    Against the PCs the original spell is pretty powerful, but from PC to NPC its not that dangerous. Yes, they could nix a level 4 spell with a level 2 spell, or a level 9 spell with a level 5 spell, but that is also a turn and a spell they are using up. Sure they lock down one spell of variable power, but the enemy can then just throw out another spell which will likely have a larger effect on the game at large.
    Spoiler: Example
    Show

    For example, lets assume level 5 characters. PC goes first and casts Spell Steal on NPC wizard. Let's assume they use a third level spell slot and that they get just higher than the average roll. They lock down a level 3 spell slot and a level 1 spell slot of the enemy caster. The Enemy then casts fireball and catches three of the four NPC's for just average damage (~28).

    Consider a fighter taking average HP with con bonus of +2, (44 hp) if he made the save he loses 1/3 of his hp, if he fails the save (not unlikely) he is down 2/3s.

    Consider the one who cast Spell Steal, with average hp and a con bonus of +2 (32), if he makes the save it still leaves him almost half hp, if he fails the save he's at 4 hp left.

    Of course, our PC wizard can fire back an offensive spell next turn, but that puts him (offensively) 1 turn behind the NPC wizard.


    While it would sort of suck to have lost a spell slot, it certainly doesn't seem to be the most overwhelming of spells. However, because of that reality it wouldn't likely see too much play imho.

    EDIT: But it would be sort of funny for an epic level wizard to walk into a dungeon, supremely overconfident, for a gang of 10 lower level wizards to just cast this spell on him on the first round of combat, draining him of all his magic... Although, once again, other spells would probably be more effective.
    Last edited by Zeros; 2017-01-17 at 11:23 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Not too hot, not too cold
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Spell Steal[Peach]

    No way you should be able to steal/drain/leech a spell slot with a low level spell. Can you steal/drain/leech class abilities of fighters or other mundanes? No. Reaching into a person's brain and taking something out can't be that easy, or you'd be rolling dice to see if you forgot the spells in your slots. Oops, that one fell out the other day when you knocked your head on that low doorway.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Sep 2007

    Default Re: Spell Steal[Peach]

    I don't really see why people are complaining this is too powerful.

    If anything it is way too weak: It is a niche spell that, even when used in the ideal situation (a spellcaster with a single available casting of a devastating high level spell) there is a fairly high chance that it won't even work.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: Spell Steal[Peach]

    Quote Originally Posted by Straybow View Post
    No way you should be able to steal/drain/leech a spell slot with a low level spell. Can you steal/drain/leech class abilities of fighters or other mundanes? No. Reaching into a person's brain and taking something out can't be that easy, or you'd be rolling dice to see if you forgot the spells in your slots. Oops, that one fell out the other day when you knocked your head on that low doorway.
    I disagree. Steal a fighter's weapons and he can't fight. Fly and melee fighters can't do much to you. Get in an archer's face and he either eats Opportunity attacks or fights with disadvantage. So you can, and magic can do a lot of that already.

    However, use this spell and for the cost of an action you can take away handful of spells, not likely very many, usually 1 or 2, and they will still have access to cantrips no matter what.

    So relatively simple things can limit or completely remove a fighter's ability to fight, but even this spell (which costs actions and spell slots itself) only removes one or two of a wizard's many spells, but even if cast repeatedly cannot steal their cantrips.

    Personally, like I said before, it feels underwhelming, and it would suck for PCs to have it cast on them, but really isn't overpowered.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: Spell Steal[Peach]

    Well, I thought about this spell as a kind of backup spell. Yes, it can steal a high level slot, but we're playing 5e, not 3.5e, so it's useful only if an enemy has a single slot of that spell level. And the randomness could easily negate. Yes, the chance is no less than 25% to deprive an enemy of fireball but for this to happen: 1. You must hit the target with a ranged spell attack. 2. You must roll a 3 or 4, and he must have only one spell slot left. Of course, PC's do not know how many slots are there.

    The idea was that if an enemy cast fireball once, use this spell to make sure he won't cast it again.

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