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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default PC's becoming plant-type

    Since I know at least ONE of you reads this forum let's start out with :



    Nyax, Maynard, Dave, Ski - if any of you are reading this, please stop here, as it likely will contain spoilers for something I have planned for the Tuesday game.











    Now, with that taken care of, here's the situation. I have a group I run on IRC on a once-weekly basis. They're currently working their way through a kobold den, and after a couple more levels, they're going to reach their target : a Black dragon at the very bottom, which has a McGuffin that the group is after. If they decide to fight the dragon and win, among the horde, they're going to find a plant, which looks remarkably similar to a heavy flail - the favored weapon of the group's cleric. I'm going to make it fairly obvious that this is what it's meant as; The rest of the group will have found some nice magical gear along the way, I have no doubt that he'll be griping that I sent them against a dragon and didn't give him a magic weapon first.

    Anyway - I expect him to take the plant/flail, and when he does, I'm going to ask for a reflex save, as the plant attempts to grab hold of his arm. If it manages to do so (I haven't figured a DC, gonna roll it on the fly), then it's going to start requiring a fort save each week thereafter. On the first failed save, the plant will clearly become a part of his arm, as opposed to just attached, and on the second, it'll transform him entirely into a plant-type creature.

    I'm kind of worried about balance, however. By doing this, I'm essentially giving him free low-light vision, immunity to poison/sleep/paralysis/polymorph/stunning/critical hits, though I won't be giving him the mindless-type qualities (plant creatures normally have immunity to all mind-affecting effects). I'm looking at this, and I don't think that it'd be a big change, but I wanted to put it up here, see what other people think this sort of change could have on a game, and whether it'd throw it out of balance.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Mike_Lemmer's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Any particular reason you want to turn him into a Plant Type?

    Treating it as a massive symbiote might work better and avoid those issues, giving you the fluff you want & the crunch you choose.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    It will be broke.

    You're immune to rogues, and anything that can shut you down (he's a cleric, which means he has high will save and high wis score, so he's already practically immune to mind-affecting since his save is so high). Yes, this is powerful. It is hugely powerful. Clerics are already on the 'most brokenly powerful' list as it is... why the need to beef him?
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    Retired Mod in the Playground Retired Moderator
     
    kpenguin's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Give him some weaknesses as well. For instance, since he's now a plant, he requires different types of methods for nourishment and this might become bothersome.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus View Post
    Anyway - I expect him to take the plant/flail, and when he does, I'm going to ask for a reflex save, as the plant attempts to grab hold of his arm. If it manages to do so (I haven't figured a DC, gonna roll it on the fly), then it's going to start requiring a fort save each week thereafter. On the first failed save, the plant will clearly become a part of his arm, as opposed to just attached, and on the second, it'll transform him entirely into a plant-type creature.

    I'm kind of worried about balance, however. By doing this, I'm essentially giving him free low-light vision, immunity to poison/sleep/paralysis/polymorph/stunning/critical hits, though I won't be giving him the mindless-type qualities (plant creatures normally have immunity to all mind-affecting effects). I'm looking at this, and I don't think that it'd be a big change, but I wanted to put it up here, see what other people think this sort of change could have on a game, and whether it'd throw it out of balance.
    Balance-wise, that's probably worth a +1 LA.

    What I'd be more concerned with, though, is the fact that you're making a drastic change to his character without his permission. IMO, that's something DMs should try to avoid. What if he doesn't want to play a walking plant? At least make sure he has the means to get rid of it if he wants to.

    This would make a neat curse, but it sounds like you're envisioning it as a permanent change to his character, which is quite different.
    Last edited by Dausuul; 2007-07-20 at 01:57 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jack Mann's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Definitely give him a way to cure this, and fairly quickly. Like, no more than one or two game sessions away. It's always a bad idea to permanently change someone's character without their permission. You already control the world. Their character design is their own affair, and the one small bastion of control they have. Don't screw with that unless you're really sure they'd go for it.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Miles Invictus's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    It wouldn't take much to give the player a larger choice in this.

    First, make the change a bit more gradual -- every time he fails a save, give him one of the plant's special qualities, but also apply an appropriate penalty. Then, you lead him to discover a ritual that either kills the plant or allows it to bond harmlessly, depending on how the ritual is performed.

    Killing the plant removes all effects, positive or negative, and causes the plant-flail to become a potent magic weapon. Bonding to the plant costs experience, but lets him keep the special qualities without incurring any penalties.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles Invictus View Post
    It wouldn't take much to give the player a larger choice in this.

    First, make the change a bit more gradual -- every time he fails a save, give him one of the plant's special qualities, but also apply an appropriate penalty. Then, you lead him to discover a ritual that either kills the plant or allows it to bond harmlessly, depending on how the ritual is performed.

    Killing the plant removes all effects, positive or negative, and causes the plant-flail to become a potent magic weapon. Bonding to the plant costs experience, but lets him keep the special qualities without incurring any penalties.

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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    It will be broke.

    You're immune to rogues, and anything that can shut you down (he's a cleric, which means he has high will save and high wis score, so he's already practically immune to mind-affecting since his save is so high). Yes, this is powerful. It is hugely powerful. Clerics are already on the 'most brokenly powerful' list as it is... why the need to beef him?
    You're thinking of optimized clerics - for one, I don't allow divine metamagic in my games, which lowers his power significantly, and for two, he's not a heavy optimizer. He wants to head into Blackguard, I believe, so I have little concerns about him becoming Clericzilla.

    I realize now that I forgot to mention - yes, there'll be ways to remove the plant. He's currently level 4 (just hit it last session), so by the time he gets this, he should have access to Remove Curse, which will allow him to remove the plant. I know making a change to a character without their permission is bad, I wouldn't do that - that's why I wanted the change to be gradual. I can see how making it every couple of days or so, and a gain single benefit each time, would be beneficial.

    Among the penalties I was thinking about were things such as - if it's attached to his hand, it should make that hand more or less useless, applying a -2 penalty to all things that require both hands free. Not sure how huge a balance factor this would be, however - really, the only thing I'm worried about him gaining is the immunity to critical hits (and thus sneak attack). I'm a little leery on the LA idea... immunity to sneak attacks is pretty strong, but outside of that, most of what he'd get from being a plant wouldn't really be all that notable.

    As for the idea of a ritual... I do like that idea. Perhaps build this up as a Legacy weapon thing? Scratch the bonding, just make it a reflex save or the weapon grabs hold of his arm and sticks there, and if he wants to bond to it further he could find the proper rituals to do it? And if he wanted, instead, to break the hold the plant has on the flail (I could easily describe it, instead of it being a flail-shaped plant, as a flail wrapped in thorny vines), I could see it as becoming a +1 plantbane heavy flail instead. I don't have the books covering Legacy weapons with me, but I could certainly track them down.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Koji's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus View Post
    Among the penalties I was thinking about were things such as - if it's attached to his hand, it should make that hand more or less useless, applying a -2 penalty to all things that require both hands free.

    Look up the psionic power Graft Weapon (It's in the SRD). It covers this.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Quote Originally Posted by Koji View Post
    Look up the psionic power Graft Weapon (It's in the SRD). It covers this.
    That's basically where I got the idea of the -2... that would make a good "first power" to gain, however, if I start breaking it up into blocks. First the flail attaches itself, and could be pulled off.. if he wants to accept it, he loses the loss of that hand but gains the benefits of the Graft Weapon power. The rest can work up from there.

    I think I kinda like the taste of that particular bit of flavor.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Jayabalard's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Is he going to start eating donuts and chanting "Love and PEACE!"

    a little more seriously... what if he makes his save and goes to destroy the "weapon" that attacks him.
    Last edited by Jayabalard; 2007-07-20 at 02:21 PM.
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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
    Give him some weaknesses as well. For instance, since he's now a plant, he requires different types of methods for nourishment and this might become bothersome.
    like how is he going to able to perform photosynthesis underground? not something the plant type requires by raw but whatever.
    Last edited by reorith; 2007-07-20 at 02:56 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayabalard View Post
    Is he going to start eating donuts and chanting "Love and PEACE!"

    a little more seriously... what if he makes his save and goes to destroy the "weapon" that attacks him.
    If he makes his save and wants to destroy the weapon, he's free to do so. Granted, that's a loss of party treasure, but it's an option he might take. He should have enough loot by the end of all this that when they get back to town, they should be able to buy some magical gear. And in all honesty, a part of me wouldn't be surprised if he decided to change his name to Vash...

    Quote Originally Posted by reorith
    like how is he going to able to perform photosynthesis underground? not something the plant type requires by raw but whatever.
    I think that's probably the downside that I'd tie in to the "Immunity to/doesn't need to sleep"
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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Alright, so I've done a little work, and brought the flail's power level down a bit. Here's what I've come up with :

    Plant-flail
    If the vines are killed, but the flail kept : Reduce the flail’s current HP by one-half its max, and treat as a +1 heavy flail. The flail can be repaired normally.
    If time is taken to find the proper way to remove the vines magically, the flail becomes a +1 plant-bane heavy flail.

    Once the plant is attached, it requires Remove Curse to be cast on the flail, and then a DC 15 Heal check (+1 per stage it's completed) will remove it without harm. If this check fails, the subject takes 1d4 damage per stage the flail's completed, but the flail is removed anyway.

    If the plant remains attached, the following happens :

    All Stages : Each step involves a DC 15 save; The first is a reflex save, the rest are fortitude. Any time the plant successfully progresses, the player takes 1d4 damage. There is always some warning given before each stage progresses, and the player can choose to accept what’s happening. If they do so, they don’t take the damage.
    Immediate : The plant grabs hold of him and sinks in roots. DC 15 reflex save negates. On a failed save, the player takes a -2 penalty on all checks involving the use of hands while the plant remains attached.
    Day 2 : The plant attempts to force its way into the player further. On a failed or accepted save, player gains the benefits of the Graft Weapon psionic power - +1 competence bonus on attack and damage and can’t be disarmed, but still takes the -2 penalty on any check involving the use of hands.
    Day 4 : Player gains low-light vision, but doesn’t take any downsides.
    Day 6 : Player can no longer sustain himself on regular food, but can “eat” so long as he spends an hour touching soil, and an hour in daylight, each day. These can be done at the same time. Daylight from a Daylight spell is sufficient for this, and a stone floor can be used to extract food from, but requires four hours instead of one.
    Day 8 : The player no longer needs to sleep, so long as he’s “eaten” that day. This doesn’t change the required rest period for spell preparation.




    Net gain : Low light vision, +1 to attacks/damage, ability to eat without survival checks or rations, never needs to sleep if he's fed.
    Net loss : Use of one hand, ability to sustain themselves on rations.

    I'll allow him to find further ways to enhance this, and gradually gain the plant type if he so chooses, but he'll have to track those down himself.

    Seem a bit better?
    Last edited by Quietus; 2007-07-20 at 04:07 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: PC's becoming plant-type

    Yes, much, in my not-so-humble opinion. Personally, I like it. I wouldn't mind getting cursed with it at all, good character development.

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