General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

[Nifft]

And mind you, I can understand it if you want to run a more heroic campaign, but when you're not. When you are running a game about morally bankrupt mercenaries doing dirty deeds for shadowy masters...

Why then can't they use spooky magic?

Some of the spooky magic turns you into an NPC (insect spirit totem, cyber zombie, sheddim).

Some of the spooky magic turns you into THE MAN (toxic magic is about pollution, and what creates pollution is the establishment against which you are rebelling) or THE WORSE MAN (blood magic is associated with Aztechnology, which is also the establishment yet somehow worse).


The reasons for avoiding mechanics which turn your PC into an NPC should be obvious, and you can't ameliorate them without changing the mechanics.

The reasons for avoiding tonal dissonance like being a rebel who apes the sins of the establishment are amenable to house-ruling. For example, in one game I made it so rudimentary ritual blood magic was widely available and generally benign, so pretty much every place the PCs cared about had a Blood Barrier put in place weekly (using runes drawn in blood on paper, placed in each corner of each room). The characters in this city extracted blood using syringes intended for a "clean needles" program (i.e. stolen). It wasn't much blood, and it wouldn't stop a mage for more than an action (at most), but it did keep you safe from casual astral spying.

[druid91]

Some of the spooky magic turns you into an NPC (insect spirit totem, cyber zombie, sheddim).

Some of the spooky magic turns you into THE MAN (toxic magic is about pollution, and what creates pollution is the establishment against which you are rebelling) or THE WORSE MAN (blood magic is associated with Aztechnology, which is also the establishment yet somehow worse).


The reasons for avoiding mechanics which turn your PC into an NPC should be obvious, and you can't ameliorate them without changing the mechanics.

The reasons for avoiding tonal dissonance like being a rebel who apes the sins of the establishment are amenable to house-ruling. For example, in one game I made it so rudimentary ritual blood magic was widely available and generally benign, so pretty much every place the PCs cared about had a Blood Barrier put in place weekly (using runes drawn in blood on paper, placed in each corner of each room). The characters in this city extracted blood using syringes intended for a "clean needles" program (i.e. stolen). It wasn't much blood, and it wouldn't stop a mage for more than an action (at most), but it did keep you safe from casual astral spying.

None of those things are NPCs by default, and that's the attitude I'm talking about. "This arbitrary evil thing is NPC only" in past editions, that was an actual rule, but now it seems to only really keep going through inertia.

And who is rebelling against the establishment? You work FOR the establishment. You are the establishments daggers in the night. Bringing down their enemies in the dirty ways they can't be seen doing.

[Ignimortis]

In standard SR5e, a good, upgraded Sniper Rifle will have an Accuracy of 11, meaning that you won't hit the limit at all until you have a pool of 30 or so dice, which never happens outside of some non-viable proof of concept builds or Edge use, in which case the accuracy doesn't matter anyway.
A good, upgraded shotgun has an accuracy of 7 or so, which means that you will only hit thr limit once you have reached 20+ dice pools. That is definetely manageable, but usually still rare and resource-intensive to pull of. With your changes, the accuracy becomes completely meaningless. So, if you plan to ignore limits anyway, ignore them all the way. Enjoy the complete domination of spellcasters along the way.

I know there has been a lot of bitching about it, but the limits are not a terrible thing. They are a rule in Shadowrun, so yeah, the implementation is less than perfect, but by now that is part of the charme of the system. It is clunky. The limits allow for a positive equipment modifier which don't require a direct dice pool boost which helps to keep the total pool size on a more rational level. It really helps to keep a few elements (read: spellcasters, especially summoners) from becoming too good to be any fun, and most shockingly, they don't affect the game that much.
And yes, I have read the rantings of a certain bitter ex-writer of Shadowrun 4 about the limits in 5th edition as well.

Lower costs for Bio/Cyberware is a decent idea, though.

Another good house rules: Kill the 'one atttack per initiative pass' nonsense. Switch back to the straight initiative countdown of second edition (much easier to bookkeep, and actually an upgrade to the otherwise regularly screwed combat specialists). Introduce a gentleman's agreement that the excessive use of pet classes (summoners, sprite-heavy technomancers, drone riggers) is frowned upon in polite society. Infected characters and Pixies are an explicit exception to the 'no PvP' rule.

I usually provide bonus connections, karma and equipment based on the classic 20 questions for new characters, granting a nice but not game-breaking (and well deserved) boost to fully fleshed-out characters. For a sandbox game where the players are probably going to be mre embedded in their local communities, a more generous alotment of contacts also seems like a good idea.

Hmm. I do have access to the earlier edition books, might peruse them for some rules, thanks.
As for the other stuff...if limits mostly stop spellcasters from being brokenly good, that might change a lot of things and we might keep them intact.

Bonus contacts and all that is also nice, but since we all tend to create somewhat fleshed-out characters, it'll either be a universal buff or nobody will get extras. Then again, it's far less gamebreaking than most things, and I might be able to persuade my friend to do that.

[jindra34]

Well on Insect Shamans the answer is pretty clear: Everyone responds to one of those with a 'KILL IT WITH MORE FIRE' response. So you can't really take significant advantage of it without giving yourself away and ending up on EVERYONE'S to kill list.

The others are more an issue of the general code of proffesionalism. The whole not killing/ruining more than needed to get the job done. Because killing all the guards in a location, or leaving an entire building lethally radioactive tends to quickly kill offers of new jobs.

[druid91]

Admittedly, I do hold Insect Shamans to definitely lean closer towards NPC only, simply because what motivates an Insect Shaman is so at odds with what makes a person Shadowrun. They find a place where the mana is aligned, then they build a hive. That's.... just what they do. Going on Shadowruns is not only entirely irrelevant to this motivational set, it's actively detrimental to the goals of the hive to which the Shaman holds themselves as part.


Toxic, Blood, and Faustian magi on the other hand? Have no such issues. Sure Toxic Magi might be prone to grand and destructive magic. Blood Magi are murderous maniacs, and Faustian Magi have some really nasty friends...

But then again, you could have the troll street sammy with their rocket launcher. The Razorboy with a body count in the triple digits, or the Face with contacts among Tamanous or Organized Crime.

[Ignimortis]

The only magic that is really, really off limits to players is Insect Shaman magic. Everything else is a question of moral fiber of those you run with. As long as you can get the job done and conduct your business properly, that's good enough for most runners. Insect Shamans can't do that, because they're being influenced by a hivemind and are basically on a short road to becoming an NPC hostile to all other non-insect life.

[Telok]

I never got deep enough into the magic splats to have the best grasp of insect shamans & spirits, but were there not mantis spirits that were less hive-y and more hunter/stalker?

[Black Jester]

Just because you are a criminal doesn't mean that there aren't things that are beyond the pale. As a shadowrunner, you are probably not associating with human traffickers, serial rapists or pedophiles. And toxics and insect shamans are basically on that level, if not worse: the active and malevolent destruction of people for no other sake as the destruction or the invasion of personal bodies to create obedient slaves is kind of horrible.

Speaking of parasites, the Shadowrun society is so seriously damaged that the average corportate middle management guy is probably not better than an insect spirit. Hell, for most employees it is probably a significant improvement of the workplace environment when their boss is taken over by an insect spirits: Both see their staff as worthless drones whose gross body functions and needs are bascially theft of the productivity he is entitled to, but Mr. Bzzzzz the literal Wasp has no interest in coercing sexual favors to establish his dominance.

[druid91]

I mean. There are human traffickers on jackpoint.

Also, that was a litteral thing in Canon. The Universal Brotherhood.

[LibraryOgre]

Just because you are a criminal doesn't mean that there aren't things that are beyond the pale. As a shadowrunner, you are probably not associating with human traffickers, serial rapists or pedophiles. And toxics and insect shamans are basically on that level, if not worse: the active and malevolent destruction of people for no other sake as the destruction or the invasion of personal bodies to create obedient slaves is kind of horrible.

I think it's totally implied that these sorts of people are around, and that some of them are running the shadows. While SR1s emphasis on Neo-Anarchists persists, and Shadowrunners have the glow of "sticking it to the man", there's no doubt that you've got a lot of other people in the shadows for other reasons... and all sorts of human nastiness might be included. Serial rapist who happens to be an adept? Combat medic who's also an organlegger? Wizard who uses his money from running to buy children? All are viable character concepts... though they better be NPCs at any table I'm at. They're also examples of the sort of people who'd be in the shadows by choice.

As others have pointed out, there are a few invae who are focused on hunting other invae, and those have been suggested for PCs in the past... Mantis shamans and Spider Shamans (not Spider the totem, but Spider the insect spirit). I think it's going to be an odd character, but one that can work with the rest of the team, especially when the team is directly engaged in things that further their goals... I'm just picturing a few Spider physical magicians bounding into combat against the UB.

[DigoDragon]

The wetwork thing is also something I don't get. Like, I've seen people play the game entirely using stun damage. But... Most people don't and the game assumes you don't.

My old SR group (the first I ran 4e on) was usually pretty good about not killing on their jobs. It made sense from a runner's perspective--law enforcement's desire to hunt you down is often proportional to the body count you leave at the scene of the crime. They often balked at wetwork jobs, taking assassinations only if the target was a big enough jerk that they wouldn't be seriously missed if they vanished (it's fun how many middle-managers disappear and the company is like 'Eh, guess Bob gets a promotion now.')

Contrast with the last SR group I played in a few years back was pretty kill-happy. I was the team's combat mage and I prided myself in non-lethal takedowns and battlefield control, but we had the equivalent of Legolas and Gimli trying to 1-up each other in how many notches they could put on their gun stock. By the end of the first story arc we pretty much left Seattle for another venue because the heat was just too much.

[druid91]

My old SR group (the first I ran 4e on) was usually pretty good about not killing on their jobs. It made sense from a runner's perspective--law enforcement's desire to hunt you down is often proportional to the body count you leave at the scene of the crime. They often balked at wetwork jobs, taking assassinations only if the target was a big enough jerk that they wouldn't be seriously missed if they vanished (it's fun how many middle-managers disappear and the company is like 'Eh, guess Bob gets a promotion now.')

Contrast with the last SR group I played in a few years back was pretty kill-happy. I was the team's combat mage and I prided myself in non-lethal takedowns and battlefield control, but we had the equivalent of Legolas and Gimli trying to 1-up each other in how many notches they could put on their gun stock. By the end of the first story arc we pretty much left Seattle for another venue because the heat was just too much.

You could approach that from the other direction though.

The more damage you do, the more willing they are to spend money to catch you.

So you can either 1.) Do less damage. Or 2.) Be more expensive to kill.

[LibraryOgre]

In most SR games I've been in, the team tends towards non-lethal, low-impact, whenever possible... except for one guy. There's always the one guy. Maybe he's playing a troll with an axe. Maybe he insisted on playing an AI. But they go high-body-count, high-impact. Did we set it up so the guards are clearly not to blame? He's going to use the guard's credstick to buy a ticket to CalFree before killing him and dropping the corpse off with ghouls. Are we trying to minimize kill counts? Well, he's got a dikoted axe and a huge dice pool, and SOMEONE put those guards in the way.

[Lord Torath]

Buy the troll a staff. Then tell him he'd better save the axe for drones, critters, and corrupted dragons, or you're going to go all Zazu on him:

"There's one in on every family Team, Sire, two in on mine! And they always manage to ruin special occasions."
"What am I going to do with him?"
"He'd make a very nice throw rug! And just think, whenever he gets dirty, you can take him out and beat him!"

[druid91]

Always a fun occasion when someone gasses a crowd with k-10. (Or was it k-12? Whatever the super kamikaze chem was. That drove you berserk.) As a distraction.

[comicshorse]

My Shadowrun groups tend to be pretty 'minimal violence' but in Cyberpunk they really cut loose. Best (?) was the ones that formed a Booster gang called P.A.G.A.N ( People Armed with Guns and Napalm) to help them with the old ultravioence

[Black Jester]

In my SR groups, psychopaths are usually shot. The whole murder spree game style only ever works if the gamemaster is absurdly lenient and willing to sacrifice any plausibility of the game world to cater to the fantasies of violance for some players. We usually don't, so when a PC starts to target SINners or worse, cops, it's time for a mercy killing, before associating with a terrorist or psychopath taints your reputation (and self-respect).

[druid91]

In my SR groups, psychopaths are usually shot. The whole murder spree game style only ever works if the gamemaster is absurdly lenient and willing to sacrifice any plausibility of the game world to cater to the fantasies of violance for some players. We usually don't, so when a PC starts to target SINners or worse, cops, it's time for a mercy killing, before associating with a terrorist or psychopath taints your reputation (and self-respect).

Depends on the nature of the mission and the murder spree.

Yes, just random violence with no thought to the consequences? Sure.

However it's entirely possible to be a murderous jerk who still covers their tracks.

[Black Jester]

Sure, if you are a mage, and likes to spam the Sterilize spell and astral scrubbing (and you always have the time for all the astral scrubbing), you can be fine for a long time. However, by making the steps from criminal nuisance to terrorisand finally to public enemy, you lose one of the most helpful protective screens in a runner's arsenal: the lack of interest of the law. As soon as you kill people that matter (or at least, people that matter to the cops, like other cops), they are suddenly motivated to actually investigate you.

There is almost never a situation in a Shadowrun game where a lethal option is anything but an ultima ratio - even if it is simply for the fact that it is a lot simpler to kill a stunned opponent than it is to interrogate a dead one.

[DigoDragon]

I got a new group together to run SR 4a with. Our "the one guy" is a veteran player who essentially styled his ork biker after Lobo, but so far hasn't gotten out of control (I figure he's just warming up). The team was hired to break into a "closed" lab and steal some paydata for their Johnson. Managed to only trigger two security measures by going through the back way. The first was a flying attack drone. In first two rounds of combat they could not land a hit on it, and it couldn't target worth beans. Round three the combat mage and biker finally landed hits to take it down.

The second security measure they triggered was more of an accident. They squeezed through an unconventional path meant for HVAC and pipes, landing in a room guarded by a paracritter--a kirin with a control collar. The players appealed to its base desires by feeding it and managed to keep it neutral enough so that the Rigger could remove the collar. With some more food the creature is now following them around, thinking these runners are a meal ticket (I hope they realize this critter isn't something you can keep in an apartment like a trained pet. Someone's couch is gonna have a bad day).

They found the paydata and are now leaving via the "front door", which is sadly going to trigger a third security measure if they go that way. Session ended before they set foot out, just to give them a bit of time to reconsider before we go for session two.

[druid91]

Sure, if you are a mage, and likes to spam the Sterilize spell and astral scrubbing (and you always have the time for all the astral scrubbing), you can be fine for a long time. However, by making the steps from criminal nuisance to terrorisand finally to public enemy, you lose one of the most helpful protective screens in a runner's arsenal: the lack of interest of the law. As soon as you kill people that matter (or at least, people that matter to the cops, like other cops), they are suddenly motivated to actually investigate you.

There is almost never a situation in a Shadowrun game where a lethal option is anything but an ultima ratio - even if it is simply for the fact that it is a lot simpler to kill a stunned opponent than it is to interrogate a dead one.

You mean other cops, from the same corporation. SINner or not, life is cheap in the sixth world. Almost noone is truly irreplaceable.

And while the sec team might be a little cheesed that some runner killed their pal, they just lost three more to gangers last week. And another dozen to the interdepartmental conflict between marketing and accounting.

Yes. You suddenly become more interesting, rather than non-interesting. You're still one small factor of the constant casualties of the sixth world.

True, outright terrorism gets more attention still, both because of the price tag on the damage and because of the excellent PR of being the Corp who takes them down.

But we're talking about a society where driving on the highway at night can get you killed by go gangs that are kitted out like some kind of Mad Max wasteland army. Complete with AIR SUPPORT.

The cops have plenty of issues that aren't you to worry about.

[comicshorse]

You mean other cops, from the same corporation. SINner or not, life is cheap in the sixth world. Almost noone is truly irreplaceable.

I wouldn't underestimate the universal hatred of cop-killers by any cops. Not to mention the fact that if they're killing Renraku cops today and getting away with it then it could be you on the next Run they pull. That kind of thing is likely to get around and drastically increase a 'Runners chances of being 'shot trying to escape'

And another dozen to the interdepartmental conflict between marketing and accounting.

Yeah but there's nothing they can do about the people behind that ( as they are probably signing your pay checks) but you can shot any 'Runners who piss you off

[druid91]

I wouldn't underestimate the universal hatred of cop-killers by any cops. Not to mention the fact that if they're killing Renraku cops today and getting away with it then it could be you on the next Run they pull. That kind of thing is likely to get around and drastically increase a 'Runners chances of being 'shot trying to escape'



Yeah but there's nothing they can do about the people behind that ( as they are probably signing your pay checks) but you can shot any 'Runners who piss you off

Well... The first mistake is assuming Corp sec think of themselves as cops. They're closer to gang enforcers or Mercenaries then they are cops.

Secondly, they outright encourage a disdain for the lives and livelihoods of other corporations.

Thirdly, the friendly 'do as little damage as possible and we will go easy on you.' is explicitly an Ares thing. Meanwhile Mitsuhama has the Zero Zero policy, Saeder Krupp is the poster boy for long grudges over insignificant slights. Aztechnology is similarly grudge carrying and with the magical muscle to back that up, better hope you left nothing that could be a sympathetic link...

And? Again, yes if you get caught you're in trouble. But you were already in trouble if you get caught. How many people are going to know it was you? Assuming you're properly disguised? The only person who knows who did what job is your fixer. Who's paid handsomely for their discretion. And the only person who knows who fixed what job was your employer.

[comicshorse]

Secondly, they outright encourage a disdain for the lives and livelihoods of other corporations.

Really ? I never got that impression.

How many people are going to know it was you? Assuming you're properly disguised? The only person who knows who did what job is your fixer. Who's paid handsomely for their discretion. And the only person who knows who fixed what job was your employer.

And everybody they employ, or sell on the swag to, or talk to. Or the Fixer who supplied the Runners weapons, the Street Doc who patched them up, etc. Not to mention forensic evidence, informers and the myriad ways real life criminals who wear disguises are caught every day.
Not to mention if the Corps are ought for revenge they don't need irrefutable proof. The fact that the Runner team X (RTX) is two humans an elf and a troll who uses a two handed axe and that's who they were hit by, using tactics favoured by RTX, who are currently spending as though they just had a big score is probably going to be all they need

And? Again, yes if you get caught you're in trouble. But you were already in trouble if you get caught.

Indeed but there's all the difference in the world between 3-5 for B and E ( leavened by doing work for the Corp.) and the aformentioned 'shot while trying to escape'

[druid91]

Really ? I never got that impression.



And everybody they employ, or sell on the swag to, or talk to. Or the Fixer who supplied the Runners weapons, the Street Doc who patched them up, etc. Not to mention forensic evidence, informers and the myriad ways real life criminals who wear disguises are caught every day.
Not to mention if the Corps are ought for revenge they don't need irrefutable proof. The fact that the Runner team X (RTX) is two humans an elf and a troll who uses a two handed axe and that's who they were hit by, using tactics favoured by RTX, who are currently spending as though they just had a big score is probably going to be all they need



Indeed but there's all the difference in the world between 3-5 for B and E ( leavened by doing work for the Corp.) and the aformentioned 'shot while trying to escape'

I mean, anyone who makes a habit of blabbing about who they sold weapons to, or patched up after a run is going to be dead pretty quickly. After all, if he blabs on THAT team, what's to stop him blabbing on some other team?

In which case it's pointless trying to hide, because they'll go after you because you look like rtx. Even if you're rty.

But in the end forensic evidence is all but useless. Why? Because there's no database to check and you have no suspects to check it against. Unless the runner in question is a SINner.

And they only have access to the spending data you make available to them. Shop with their competitors and they've got no clue.

[comicshorse]

I mean, anyone who makes a habit of blabbing about who they sold weapons to, or patched up after a run is going to be dead pretty quickly. After all, if he blabs on THAT team, what's to stop him blabbing on some other team?

But how would anybody know it was him who gave up the team ? Its not like anybody will be deploying a team of trained investigators to find out why RTX (gotta put a rival Runner team with that tag in my next game) got killed. Believe me the list of criminals who got the police to look the other way by feeding them the occasional really highly wanted criminal is long and inglorious. Which is why its always better to not be the really highly wanted criminal who left a bunch of bodies in your wake.
The more bloody the crime, the more pressure the Corps. will apply and the more likely people are going to squeal or be forced to squeal

But in the end forensic evidence is all but useless. Why? Because there's no database to check and you have no suspects to check it against. Unless the runner in question is a SINner.

Which some will be or will have been in the past.Sometimes the smallest thing will help, the hair that is no good for ritual magic can still tell a determined investigator that the tall, masked figure was an elf not just a tall human.

And they only have access to the spending data you make available to them. Shop with their competitors and they've got no clue.

Or that they get from spies or informers

[druid91]

The Fixer who made large amounts of money off of a running team isn't going to look into what meddled in his business?

Mind you, there is a market for terrorists in the sixth world. It's a darker shade of grey than typical Shadowrun, but it's there.

And regardless of circumstances, unless you're the head of a shadow community, selling someone out is a big way to die.

And that narrows it down to any of an entire metavariant. Assuming you can prove the hair was the attackers. While most runners are born SINless, or had their SINs burned.

Spies and informants? You mean like.... Other shadowrunners? A datasteal is a BIG deal. It's not something done casually. Whether that's design specs or just marketing info, Datatheft is one of the most expensive and difficult types of run, only topped by extraction or structural hits.

[comicshorse]

The Fixer who made large amounts of money off of a running team isn't going to look into what meddled in his business?

He might or he might just decide to save his money and time and just find a new team. Particularly if the dead guys were pissing off the Corps by leaving bodies behind unnecessarily. Something that could very easily lead trouble to his door.

And that narrows it down to any of an entire metavariant

Which is a massive diminishing of the suspect pool.If they can tell from witnesses (or other evidence) if he was a Street Samurai or Mage or Shaman that decreases it down to a handful of suspects. Add in the team he worked with and its down even more.

Spies and informants? You mean like.... Other shadowrunners? A datasteal is a BIG deal. It's not something done casually. Whether that's design specs or just marketing info, Datatheft is one of the most expensive and difficult types of run, only topped by extraction or structural hits.

Nothing so extreme, we are just talking about people seeing if the Runners are spending as if they've just had a big score. Street level informers who can notice the Runner's new car/motor bike/drone. Hookers who see the Runner's newly re-furbished place, bookies who see that members of that team are laying big bets or hitting the tables.

[druid91]

He might or he might just decide to save his money and time and just find a new team. Particularly if the dead guys were pissing off the Corps by leaving bodies behind unnecessarily. Something that could very easily lead trouble to his door.



Which is a massive diminishing of the suspect pool.If they can tell from witnesses (or other evidence) if he was a Street Samurai or Mage or Shaman that decreases it down to a handful of suspects. Add in the team he worked with and its down even more.



Nothing so extreme, we are just talking about people seeing if the Runners are spending as if they've just had a big score. Street level informers who can notice the Runner's new car/motor bike/drone. Hookers who see the Runner's newly re-furbished place, bookies who see that members of that team are laying big bets or hitting the tables.

That's not saving his money and time. That's him shooting his business in the foot. Whether they stepped out of line or not, if a fixer vouches for a shadow merchant, and that merchant sells out his team? You're being very generous towards the 'Sell out the PC's' line of thinking, because it makes things easier for you. But that's not how that would work out. Now mind you, the FIXER might cut them loose if they pull a stunt they don't like, but that's a matter of finding the right fixer for the right group. A fixer with a taste towards simple B&E work, some theft or sabotage probably isn't gonna like it if you blowing up museums as your backup plan. But a Fixer who arranges teams for Structural hits and Wetwork, might well love the very team that the above fixer hates.



Not really? There are 106,260 Elves in the Puyallup Barrens alone. Not even all of Seattle. And that's only the SINners. Who knows how many are out there unrecorded. That's a LOT of people. And as for Magicians? There's 27,930 registered Magicians in Seattle. Again, who knows how many unregistered. As for street samurai, that's literally anyone with a decent amount of ware and some skills in a fight. That's the thing about Shadowrun. The PC's are not special. You're not the first street kid to get a body full of ware and go ham on some guys. You're just one of a few million before you. Magicians are a bit rarer, and powerful magicians even more rare. But the trappings of magic are the same regardless of mojo.


So in the end, you're talking about Corporations spending billions of nuyen on the OFF chance they MIGHT catch these guys, but they're probably going to catch someone else completely because they're throwing a net so broad a whale could swim through it and never touch the edges? Again, you assume that everyone knows the PC's run together. Which is very rarely true. Because in the end, you're talking about them paying off the literal hundreds of thousands of people in the barrens, hoping they catch someone.

Also hoping that their payments to their barrens informants don't just get hijacked by gangers.

EDIT: Another point to make. People in the Shadowrun world are majorly desensitized to violence. Urban Brawl, that common sport that's basically replaced most major sports.... is literally based on the time french TV decided to just broadcast Gang Warfare. And fatalities happen constantly. Because as mentioned, it's a formalized version of GANG WARFARE. That people watch on TV. For Fun.

[comicshorse]

That's not saving his money and time. That's him shooting his business in the foot. Whether they stepped out of line or not, if a fixer vouches for a shadow merchant, and that merchant sells out his team? You're being very generous towards the 'Sell out the PC's' line of thinking, because it makes things easier for you. But that's not how that would work out. Now mind you, the FIXER might cut them loose if they pull a stunt they don't like, but that's a matter of finding the right fixer for the right group. A fixer with a taste towards simple B&E work, some theft or sabotage probably isn't gonna like it if you blowing up museums as your backup plan. But a Fixer who arranges teams for Structural hits and Wetwork, might well love the very team that the above fixer hates.
.

Why is that shooting his business in the foot ? He can find other teams ( less blood thirsty, wave making ones) or he can expend precious time and resources on trying to find out something that won't help his business at all. And that's assuming he even finds out how the P.C.s were found. It's not like he, unlike the Corps., retains a division of people who specialize in this kind of thing. If he doesn't, and there are sooooo many ways they could be found everyone that must be looked into, then he's just wasted the very significant time and money he put into it.
And I'm using 'sell out the P.C.s' because that's how a lot of criminals get caught. It happens, quite literally, all the time, especially to criminals who make waves by getting their gun off at any excuse. And this is with police who aren't prepared to pull the nasty stuff Corp. security can get away to 'persuade' people to talk and who don't have magic

Not really? There are 106,260 Elves in the Puyallup Barrens alone. Not even all of Seattle. And that's only the SINners. Who knows how many are out there unrecorded. That's a LOT of people. And as for Magicians? There's 27,930 registered Magicians in Seattle. Again, who knows how many unregistered. As for street samurai, that's literally anyone with a decent amount of ware and some skills in a fight. That's the thing about Shadowrun. The PC's are not special. You're not the first street kid to get a body full of ware and go ham on some guys. You're just one of a few million before you. Magicians are a bit rarer, and powerful magicians even more rare. But the trappings of magic are the same regardless of mojo.

And how many of those Elves are Shadowrunners ? not just gangers but actual 'Runners. Twenty or thirty, maybe. Same with Mages but even rarer. And a Street Samurai, a proper Street Samurai has about 300,000 NuY of cyberware on them. That's not a 'decent amount' that's a 'most people could retire on that amount
So yes 'Runners are rare. You want Gangers with a level of Boosted and a pistol you can get a small army but proper 'Runners ; with the 'Ware or the Mojo and the skills and the professional nature are rare

So in the end, you're talking about Corporations spending billions of nuyen on the OFF chance they MIGHT catch these guys,

No I'm not talking about spending billions, I'm taking about a significant investment of time and money but by an organization that is set up to do this kind of thing. It is literally one of their major roles to find out intelligence for the corporation and prosecute action against their enemies. They do this for a living and don't have to play nice. The odds are very much they are going to catch the 'Runners
And yes they don't want to spend that time and money which is why they normally don't. Shadowrunners exist in the sweet spot of 'its too much trouble to find and kill them and we might be using them next year'. This is the unspoken agreement between the Corps and 'Runners and everybody is ,more-or-less, fine with it. Which is why smart 'Runners keep things low-key and minimal violence. But the one's who insist on pissing off the high up's and making the Corp. look weak by slaughtering their workers, sooner-or-later they cross the line to 'ok its worth the effort to kill these bastards'

Again, you assume that everyone knows the PC's run together. Which is very rarely true. Because in the end, you're talking about them paying off the literal hundreds of thousands of people in the barrens, hoping they catch someone.

No. I'm not. If only a few dozen know the P.C.s run together ( or there are witnesses or CCTV of the crime, disguises included) then that's a few dozen ways the P.C.s can get caught. As well, of course, as all the people those people may have told. And that's, as I've pointed out, is just one of the ways they can get caught (Caught here meaning 'Corp. are sure they performed this specific job')
And I'm not talking about paying off 'literally hundreds of thousands of people'. That's not how intelligence services work. They have a handful of informants who make their living keeping an ear open for rumours and boasts and pass them onto the Corp. where they are collated and anazlyzed.

Also hoping that their payments to their barrens informants don't just get hijacked by gangers.

I'm pretty sure the Corps don't send a big van into the Barrens with 'Renraku Snitches Payment' on the side