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2017-03-27, 09:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- M'wakee, 'Sconsin
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
Sometimes I wonder. I really like classless, level-less systems, and I really like how magic works in Shadowrun as opposed to D&D/Pathfinder, so... I probably could have found a fantasy system that does that instead of retooling my favorite cyberpunk game. >__>
I'll have to check out Howling Shadows. Thanks!
I forgot to add Cold Immunity and Severe Heat Allergy (-4 dice to resist fire damage) to the racial traits - I want to make the players hope the PCs were wearing their brown pants when the encounter the Jotuns, but it should be an encounter with multiple paths to survival/success.Last edited by OverdrivePrime; 2017-03-27 at 09:57 PM.
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2017-03-30, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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2017-03-30, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
I don't think hacking Shadowrun into a fantasy game is THAT unreasonable. I would probably steal a bit from Earthdawn and make being an adept cheap to free, and bring down the cost of being a magician by a like amount, but the 4e framework of "Your skill is your dice, your Force is your maximum number of hits" works pretty well.
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2017-04-11, 03:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
Hey guys!
So, my questions are probably mage 101 but I'm used to playing mundanes, or adepts so it's all new to me.
Edit: The questions are about 4A.
1. I read everywhere that indirect elemental spells were not worth it compared to direct spells. On which I agreed, but last game I had to murder a sentry (only one other player showed up, and he was after the other sentry and my influence spell failed) at which point I was thoroughly reminded that net hits added to the drain value of the spell. So, force 7 manabolt with 6 successes meant 9 drain, which I hadn't expected. I have no issue with that. If you want to have someone's head explode you use a gun. Or eat drain. But that got me thinking, there should be a point where having enough spellcasting dice would make indirect combat spells less drainy than direct ones, no?
Out of chargen a specialized combat mage could get around 18 spellcasting dice without sacrificing too much (wolf mentor spirit + magic 6 + spellcasting 6 + combat spell specialization + quality 2 power focus) and between 10 and 15 resist drain dice (5 in both relevant stats + rank 1 centering + quality 2 centering focus + specific spell fetish) so, if we take average, you'd get 6 hits on your spellcasting and between 3 and 5 hits for drain resistance. Let's compare manabolt and frost. A force 3 spell would incur the same drain value for both (manabolt: 1 base +3hits and 1 base +3 for frost) and for the same 6 boxes of damage. But since the spells work differently, manabolt will see its drain value lowered as enemies succeed their willpower test to resist the damage, meaning it's an average drain 3 for 5 boxes of physical damage. Frost's drain value will remain unchanged, but its damage will be resisted, first with reaction which has a way higher chance of being higher than 3 against most enemies, then with body which again tends to be higher than willpower and half impact armor, since for now our poor unwilling test subject has the stats of a lone star, let's go with their armor, for another box of damage shaved off (unless I missed the spell armor penetration rule somewhere, which is a very real possibility). So we end up with 3 boxes of damage for a drain of 4 for frost, and it wouldn't be that surprising, probability-wise for there to be only two boxes of damage.
Let's keep hitting lone stars but up the force of the spell: Manabolt force 7 Vs Frost force 7. Now manabolt has a drain value of 9 (3 base + 6 hits) and Frost has a drain value of 6 (3 base + 3), both should do the same 13 boxes of damage. Again, Manabolt will lose 1 box of damage but that will also knock 1 off the drain value, while frost will lose 3 to 4 damage and keep the same drain value. Meaning manabolt ends up with a drain value of 8 for 12 boxes of damage, while Frost gets a drain value of 6 for 9-10 damage, which will be further lowered by better enemies.
So to answer my own question, it seems that no matter what, direct combat spells will always overpower indirect combat spells. Also, is it possible to limit your spellcasting net hits? Like, if I roll 6 successes on a force 11 manabolt, can I say "I will keep only one net hit") then the victim opposes the spell and any hits left over are lowered to 1? For a whooping 12 damage and drain 6? Is that legit?
2. Did I miss something or is Ignite utterly useless? It does very limited damage, takes a long, long, long time to go off and needs me to cast it to a rather high force to affect items?
3. Is there an official confirmation that I can manifest a physical barrior horizontally or at an angle, making ramps, slides for children, bridges, and flipping cars over?
4. Is a bit complicated and I didn't expect to spend so much time on 1. so it will be coming later. But basically it's about avoiding being too overbearing as a mage, my examples of terrible, terrible shadowrun games came from the mage doing things and the rest of us just sitting back and waiting.
Anyway, thanks for reading that far!Last edited by Alberic Strein; 2017-04-11 at 03:40 AM. Reason: Being stupid.
I'm here to kick ass and call you names... And I'm not very witty.
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2017-04-11, 07:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Orlando, FL
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
If I remember the rules for 4A spellcasting, every net hit on a Direct spell increases the drain by +1, but Indirect spells do not have the increased drain. It's been some time since I played, but I seem to remember that Direct spells are more efficient for reliable damage against heavily armored targets, while Indirect spells are better when used against lightly or unarmored (and if you want to overcast something, indirect might not kill you so quickly with the slower-scaling drain).
There's always some luck involved though. Even if targets have a bigger dice pool to work with for soaking damage by an Indirect spell, they could still flub it. I've accidentally killed targets with stun spells because their armor failed to soak any hits. ^^;
If you need to light something, I recommend Magic Fingers and a zippo.
Hmm. I think this is going to depend on your GM. Personally, I've interpreted it as the spell only creates vertical barriers (or domes in some cases), but I've allowed spellcasters to research a new spell for a horizontal floor/ramp version of the barrier.
When I mage, I tend to focus on buffing my teammates so they can do things better. I don't like to take the spotlight because smart opponents know to frag the mage first. Then again, I tend to lean a bit more toward the mirror shades style.
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2017-04-25, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
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- Sharangar's Revenge
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
2E Availability:
Originally Posted by SR II p184 under Availability
Do you use the PC's Etiquette skills, or the source's Etiquette skill?
If it's the source's Etiquette skill, is there any way to spend karma to increase your contact's Etiquette or Special Skills to make it easier to find rare equipment?Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2017-04-25, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
Good lord, that is a horribly written rule.
I would say that the best reading of that is that you roll ((Skill)+2) dice against the availability. So, if I have Corp Etiquette 3, I roll 5 dice against availaiblity. If I'm relying on my Fixer's Equipment Acquisition skill of 5, he rolls 7 dice.The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2017-04-26, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
...and yet you're not surprised, because it's
Shadowruna tabletop rpg.
I would say that the best reading of that is that you roll ((Skill)+2) dice against the availability. So, if I have Corp Etiquette 3, I roll 5 dice against availaiblity. If I'm relying on my Fixer's Equipment Acquisition skill of 5, he rolls 7 dice.
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2017-04-27, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Lemuria
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
That moment when you realize you forgot to take Hardware on your B&E Demo-man. And so can't actually open up maglocks to get at their innards.
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2017-04-28, 02:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- Boston, MA
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
... Did you really just say that you know Demolitions but you can't open a thing up?
I mean, never mind getting into its innards, you can have its innards all over the landscape. You can be among the lock.
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2017-04-28, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
And once again, Sgt. Schlock shows the way.
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2017-05-02, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Orlando, FL
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
I was going to comment about the noise of opening locks via the Demo skill, but it occurs to me that no sane security officer is going to want to move toward the sounds of something exploding.
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2017-05-02, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
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- Sharangar's Revenge
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2017-05-02, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2005
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- 61.2° N, 149.9° W
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
Ah, old memories...
We were trying to infiltrate one of our guys into an industrial compound to get water samples from some equipment. We wanted a distraction to help our physAd in and another to help him out. Naturally we decided on explosions. Our guy was near a couple of guards when one of the explosions went off, and they didn't move.
"What were those changes to our health care plan last month?"
He still got away. They pulled out their phones to check the health plan.
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2017-05-04, 08:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Orlando, FL
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
One of the best distractions I helped create on a run to collect specific paydata, was calling in a bomb threat to the building across the street from the target building we needed to break into. The target building had better security, so we broke into the building across the street and planted a mysterious package that looked like it could be a bomb (it was a bomb, because the rigger demanded authenticity, but it was not armed, because the shaman demanded sanity). Us Runners dressed up as cops and helped evac the target building. It worked, as no one really questions the police when there are a dozen legitimate emergency vehicles pulling up to your street. Those knowledge skills came in handy too, as we had skills in police procedures, medical evac, terrorist negotiations, etc. from half the party being former Lonestar or DocWagon.
Was one of those rare runs that just went near flawless.
Pffft haha! That's GMing right in my opinion. Making your security personnel seem like real people with real concerns about themselves.
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2017-05-04, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
So, security hounds. Torath mentioning Barghests had me thinking about what security hounds DO get used.
What all have y'all seen, in official and unofficial sources?The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2017-05-07, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2006
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- England
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
I remember one run where the Mage doing an Astral recon pocked his head into a room and nearly got it bitten off by a Hellhound (Paranormal Animals of North America p82)
All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem
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2017-05-08, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
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- Sharangar's Revenge
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2017-05-08, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Orlando, FL
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
I don't think my players had ever faced anything more terrifying than a trained rottweiler.
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2017-05-08, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2006
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- England
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
I was never that convinced by the idea of security hounds in Shadowrun. Sensors can tell intruders are coming better than animal senses and automatic guns can do more damage. The only thing Critters can do that tech. can't is spot Astral intruders and Spirits are better for that ( though harder to get and maintain)
Another adventure had a basilisk, a cockatrice, and two griffons for on-site security.Last edited by comicshorse; 2017-05-08 at 05:03 PM.
All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem
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2017-05-15, 06:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Orlando, FL
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
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2017-05-15, 08:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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- Sharangar's Revenge
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
That was the one. The griffons were on the top floor. No mention was made of their bedding, though. I assumed their nests were in the gym.
That just occurred to me as a way to infiltrate the place. Intercept the next meat delivery truck, and replace the personnel. Head up the service elevator, and start shooting when the doors open. My group's decker set up shop in the mainframe, spoofed the cameras and unlocked the doors while the rest of the team stealthed in, taking out all the guards on the first floor (heavy use of narcojet pistols), then took the service elevator up while the decker sent up the other elevators (to draw the guards away from the service elevator) and kept the opposition decker from stopping the elevators.
Do you remember how your group got in?
I agree with Digo; live animals can't be hacked the way security systems can be. It just adds one more layer to the security around a place. Unless the security mage is paying astral attention, his astral spirits can be killed/banished without notice. And if he needs to be astrally projecting to keep tabs on his astral watchers, why bother? Para-critters can also be taken out from astral space, but their handlers will probably notice when they suddenly drop.
Anyone ever research an Invisibility spell that works in the Infrared? It's really just expanding the spectrum of blocked light.Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2017-05-15, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
And it gives you the anti-magic protection.
Consider that, if you've got a few dog-handling teams out there... a couple guys, a couple hellhounds... you've got roving anti-spirit assets that don't require a mage. Mages are expensive. Every mage you hire is six figures a year, at least. Security guards who are good with dogs? They're a lot cheaper, and a lot less likely to leave you for a better offer, because no one is offering better. You hire yourself some dog teams and you also get armed, mundane security to go with your flame-breathing spirit-killers.The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2017-05-15, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
The joys of creative security.
On a side note; started with a new group last weekend for SR (5e). Rigger, elf assassin, troll street sam and hacker/face (me). First run is to extract Scientist Joe Snuffy who happens to be dabbling in Cybermancy research and collect all forms of his research (hardcopy and digital, all kept on site of facility...). The only way we found in was to split our party, send the face and the assassin in as inspectors and just let the rigger and troll go ballistic raising hell outside as a distraction. Thus far, the rigger is already down 2 drones and the troll got tagged pretty good.
The host we are looking for we know we have to get to the basement for of this building in order to access it, where everything juicy is stored. Now we have to try to make our way to the basement amidst the confusion.
Any suggestions or ideas?
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2017-05-16, 06:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2006
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- England
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
I racked my brains and I can't remember how we broke in. Then it occured to me I can't remember because I played that campaign nearly 30 years ago and then I had to go and have a lie down from shock ( and a touch of horror)
Re; paranatural critters I remember there being too problems with them. One it costs a lot to train them so they don't burn down your building accidentally and the other being that they are very susceptible (if dual natured) to Mages 'grounding' spells down on them from AstralAll Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem
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2017-05-16, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
I got the impression, starting about the Awakenings sourcebook, that the costs and difficulties had gone down significantly since Paranormal Animals of North America. Remember the story about the old lady with a Hellhound? Who gives a little old lady a Hellhound if there's a decent chance they're going to set the city on fire.
And, I think since 3rd or 4th edition, Grounding Spells from the astral is no longer a thing.The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2017-05-16, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
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- England
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
Last edited by comicshorse; 2017-05-16 at 12:31 PM.
All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem
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2017-05-18, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Orlando, FL
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
I just got a hold of 5th, so I can probably look it up later, if I remember to. Still trying to wrap my head around the changes in hacking (GOD and all that kinda stuff). They way they brought back decks is interesting. Make hackers a bit more special again.
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2017-05-18, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Southern Germany
- Gender
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2017-05-18, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Location
- England
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Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?
All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem