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  1. - Top - End - #1051
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    I would not be surprised if cross-corporation romances were forbidden in your employment contracts.
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  2. - Top - End - #1052
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I would not be surprised if cross-corporation romances were forbidden in your employment contracts.
    I would also not be surprised if it was a popular plot for romantic movies.
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  3. - Top - End - #1053
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    I would also not be surprised if it was a popular plot for romantic movies.
    Two corporations, each alike in equity
    In fair Seattle, where we lay our scene,
    Where financial grudge breaks to new mutiny,
    Where corporate blood makes corporate hands unclean.
    From the recruitment office of these two foes
    A pair of star-cross'd lovers take their leave...
    The Cranky Gamer
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  4. - Top - End - #1054
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    I have 2 editions of SR easily available(Ie. I own the rules and other sourcebooks) although I haven't played in quite a few years. With new players who have only played simple games like d6 Star Wars and 5e DnD, which edition is easier to run and play rules wise? I know about anarchy and the savage world rules(I haven't read them).

  5. - Top - End - #1055
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    You should probably tell us which two editions those are, first...
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  6. - Top - End - #1056
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    LOL yeah I guess that would help . 3rd and 5th

  7. - Top - End - #1057
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Fifth edition is... tricky. There is a whole YouTube channel dedicated to explaining the convoluted mechanics, which is disappointing. On the other hand, there IS a whole YouTube channel explaining fifth edition's "quirks", but not a lot of resources out there for third.
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  8. - Top - End - #1058
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corsair14 View Post
    LOL yeah I guess that would help . 3rd and 5th
    3rd then. Priority or prebuild characters. No decking, rigging, or summoning.

    Seriously best house rule I ever saw was that the group got two contacts, decker and rigger. You give them money and they generally come through based on how much you paid = how much they'll risk. No double crossing, ever. Worked like a charm.
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  9. - Top - End - #1059
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Yeah, I'd go for 3rd, no Edges/Flaws, leave the Astral out for the moment, Deckers and Riggers should be recommended against, and use either Priority character creation or Build Points whichever you think is easier for your group to grasp. If players want to pick a pre-built let them, barring Riggers and Deckers, most of them are relatively decently built even if their equipment picks are buried at the back.

    Plus side, 3e also has IMO much better artwork than 5e.

    I dropped 5e as soon as I picked up 3e. It just feels so much better to me. Although humans advancing a bit more slowly is weird.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  10. - Top - End - #1060
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corsair14 View Post
    I have 2 editions of SR easily available(Ie. I own the rules and other sourcebooks) although I haven't played in quite a few years. With new players who have only played simple games like d6 Star Wars and 5e DnD, which edition is easier to run and play rules wise? I know about anarchy and the savage world rules(I haven't read them).
    I'll pitch in for the 5th, because outside of Matrix it actually works okay, and the math is less wonky. 3e has its' charm, but the 90s mechanics would be the death of me if it was something I'd have to deal with as a new player.
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  11. - Top - End - #1061
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    General campaign idea I have for the game is to run the game in Chicago, pre-Bug invasion, intro for mechanics reasons, then run Queen Euphoria substituting areas for Chicago. Then have another standard run that will go bad and have the SRs on the run and have DocWagon pick them up as full time contractors making them "legit" and under corp "protection."

    For reference, Burning Bright is one of my favorite novels to this day, couldn't tell you how many times I have read it.
    Then I will have a run or two to as HTRT for Doc Wagon with a variety of hot landings. The 2nd to final pure DW mission will involve a retrieval of a weak docwagon signal in a defunct Universal Brotherhood facility where they encounter a failed investure and a bug spirit or two.

    Final one is where they show up to the actual break out due to one of the Knight errant assault team guys not having turned his DocWagon signal off.

    Not really sure where to go after this aside from running in the broader sense Bug City.

    Whats wrong with Riggers in 3rd? I was already planning on not doing the matrix stuff, it was never something I was interested in. Ill do quick opposed skill based hacking stuff to see if they are successful or have a hired decker do the in Matrix stuff. That's incredibly boring for the other players to sit around and wait.

  12. - Top - End - #1062
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corsair14 View Post
    Whats wrong with Riggers in 3rd? I was already planning on not doing the matrix stuff, it was never something I was interested in. Ill do quick opposed skill based hacking stuff to see if they are successful or have a hired decker do the in Matrix stuff. That's incredibly boring for the other players to sit around and wait.
    Nothing that isn't wrong with them in any other edition: solo missions where the rest of the team does nothing, and overly complex mechanics.

    This depends on the rigger, of course. If your rigger just has a recon drone or two, and a combat drone that accompanies the rest of the team, it probably won't cause too much trouble. If your rigger wants to hijack other drones (or you want to have others try to hijack the rigger's drones), engage in electronic warfare, or fly their own personal chopper while the rest of the team "goes in", you might have more problems.

    My 2E group (similar to 3E) had a rigger with a Condor for aerial surveillance, a Gaz-Nikki Snoop for 'ground level' surveillance, and a Doberman that accompanied the rest of the team on their runs. Surveillance was handled with a couple dice rolls, and the Doberman acted along with everyone else. Didn't cause any real problems.
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  13. - Top - End - #1063
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    Nothing that isn't wrong with them in any other edition: solo missions where the rest of the team does nothing, and overly complex mechanics.
    My groups were always wanting the rigger to "wait in the car for a getaway" and being generally unwilling to help with having an in-team combat drone along (bringing it back out was often the problem, combat-lossing a drone 2/3 of runs was too much $$$). Combined with GMs who, often rightly, noted & enforced signal interference and detection between inside & outside secure buildings. Just a pile of complications generally that isn't needed for basic play.
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  14. - Top - End - #1064
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    My groups were always wanting the rigger to "wait in the car for a getaway" and being generally unwilling to help with having an in-team combat drone along (bringing it back out was often the problem, combat-lossing a drone 2/3 of runs was too much $$$). Combined with GMs who, often rightly, noted & enforced signal interference and detection between inside & outside secure buildings. Just a pile of complications generally that isn't needed for basic play.
    While I never bothered to deal with the getaway vehicle in much detail, but that always felt like a job for an NPC. Even if the party rigger was the one who'd be driving it it wasn't his job to guard it, mainly so they won't be sitting the entire session out. The rigger than becomes responsible for lugging their own drones around if they get shot down.

    Mu copy of Anarchy arrived today, time to dig into that. Just glad to have a game that gets rid of the long and fiddly shopping step.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  15. - Top - End - #1065
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    I'll pitch in for the 5th, because outside of Matrix it actually works okay, and the math is less wonky. 3e has its' charm, but the 90s mechanics would be the death of me if it was something I'd have to deal with as a new player.
    And 5e limits, and cyberdeck prices, and (okay wireless bonuses are matrix BS you got that covered).
    By the metric of being wholly dependent on the GM for noncombat interaction Fighter is an NPC class.

  16. - Top - End - #1066
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    So, perhaps an odd idea and definitely a bit of a pipe dream.

    But how much actual material do you get for reagents? For magically active wood they say 'a tree branch' is equal to a unit, but that doesn't give much indication as to the size.

    As for why that's important and why it's a bit of a pipe dream.

    How many units of magical wood would you think would be necessary in order to construct an age of sail Galleon entirely out of Radical reagents. (Meaning refined magical iron fittings would likely need finding as well.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

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  17. - Top - End - #1067
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    And 5e limits, and cyberdeck prices, and (okay wireless bonuses are matrix BS you got that covered).
    Oh god, limits. Those were the first thing I disregarded, because they never came up (I think it happened once?). Not even the dwarf street samurai's Social limit, he still had about 3 essence and only enough social skills not to upset the Johnson. I also remember that Deckers pretty much had to go Priority A on Resources to get a worthwhile deck and that being nonhuman was overvalued (but not to the extent of 1e/2e).

    Honestly Shadowrun should start to move towards making the races equally valuable, just to make character creation that little bit easier, But then I'd also love to see the shopping step more towards the way Shadowrun: Anarchy does it, in that you get two weapons, armour, a few items of important gear, and then X points worth of augmentations/drones/spells/cyberdeck. Until then I'm unlikely to run any other version of the game simply because many of the people I've played with don't have the time for shopping minutia.

    Speaking of Anarchy, I'm somewhat disappointed in it having both Edge and Plot Points, and might just try rolling the latter into the former. I'll probably need to raise the starting Edge score by a couple of points but I'm sure it'll run slightly better without having to track two metagame currencies (plus two health pools and an armour pool).

    Plus 'I have Wired Reflexes, so I get a free point of Edge at the start of combat scenes' just sounds better to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  18. - Top - End - #1068
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    How many units of magical wood would you think would be necessary in order to construct an age of sail Galleon entirely out of Radical reagents. (Meaning refined magical iron fittings would likely need finding as well.)
    So, a galleon is 160 feet long, and 33' beam. Rendered as a cylinder, 137,000 cubic feet. We'll call that good enough, because while a galleon has a lot of empty space, it's also got some masts, which are tall and solid.

    A branch we will define as a cylinder about 6' long and a 6 inches around, which means its about 1.18 cubic feet. Thus, you need about 116,000 units of reagents, not including the 11,000 square feet of sail.
    The Cranky Gamer
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  19. - Top - End - #1069
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    And 5e limits, and cyberdeck prices, and (okay wireless bonuses are matrix BS you got that covered).
    Limits are...awkward and shoehorned in places, but some limits make a surprising amount of sense (Accuracy and Force being the prime examples). The issue is generally that it's too easy to get a ton of limit modifiers for everything and still have a respectable 5-6 limit for something you barely care about, and 10+ for things you want to do, which invalidates them majorly.

    Cyberdeck prices are basically Matrix BS anyway. One of my major issues with 5e is that it uses a very good base (4e is very solid at the core, more than any other edition, IMO), but mucks it up with trying to appeal to earlier edition fans by introducing changes like "augments now cost so much you can't actually afford lots of stuff at chargen, and won't be able to afford them unless your paydays are three times higher than what's suggested by the book".

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Honestly Shadowrun should start to move towards making the races equally valuable, just to make character creation that little bit easier, But then I'd also love to see the shopping step more towards the way Shadowrun: Anarchy does it, in that you get two weapons, armour, a few items of important gear, and then X points worth of augmentations/drones/spells/cyberdeck. Until then I'm unlikely to run any other version of the game simply because many of the people I've played with don't have the time for shopping minutia.
    It's very hard to make the "everyman" race valuable but not overpowered. Basically, the only way that actually works is to give them more starting Karma, and make every other race cost about the same Karma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Speaking of Anarchy, I'm somewhat disappointed in it having both Edge and Plot Points, and might just try rolling the latter into the former. I'll probably need to raise the starting Edge score by a couple of points but I'm sure it'll run slightly better without having to track two metagame currencies (plus two health pools and an armour pool).

    Plus 'I have Wired Reflexes, so I get a free point of Edge at the start of combat scenes' just sounds better to me.
    Unless that free point of Edge is almost enough to win the entire combat scene by yourself, that's a severe downgrade. Because that's what higher-end Wired Reflexes usually do.
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  20. - Top - End - #1070
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignimortis View Post
    It's very hard to make the "everyman" race valuable but not overpowered. Basically, the only way that actually works is to give them more starting Karma, and make every other race cost about the same Karma.
    Yeah, I know, it's just so annoying for your Troll Decker to have to decide between dumping Attributes and Skills.

    Unless that free point of Edge is almost enough to win the entire combat scene by yourself, that's a severe downgrade. Because that's what higher-end Wired Reflexes usually do.
    Is this Anarchy Wired Reflexes or normal Weird Reflexes? Because that's definitely true as far as normal Shadowrun goes, those extra initiative dice/passes are everything, but Anarchy airway just gives an extra Plot Point per combat at levels 2 and 3. So if combining Edge and Plot Points together it's actually a sight upgrade for Anarchy.

    Also a lot cheaper on the Essence, in Anarchy each cybernetic upgrade costs one Essence no matter what it is, and every bioware enhancement costs only 0.5, so it makes sense it wouldn't be quite as powerful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  21. - Top - End - #1071
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    How simple is Anarchy? Are we talking D&D 5e dumbed down(so easy a caveman can do it) or closer to 2E, Its relatively easy but most of your real options are RP options and not mechanics. Or 3e you need a dozen books to make a character and the rules are spread all over the place haphazard?

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    On 5e limits, with combat being a notable portion of SR I remember swiftly running into nonsensical scenarios due to the Accuracy stat on weapons crippling certain weapons, often in a way that shredded verisimilitude. What’s better for hitting the total defense physAD in the hallway? Shotgun or sniper rifle? Well since the shotgun has an accuracy of 4, if the physAD rolls 4+ hits on their dodge the shotgun’s roll doesn’t matter. 16 dice physAD gets that 83% of the time, 20 dice 94%, and I’d be willing to wager (on my hazy memory) that 20 is lowballing a dodgy adept.
    By the metric of being wholly dependent on the GM for noncombat interaction Fighter is an NPC class.

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corsair14 View Post
    How simple is Anarchy? Are we talking D&D 5e dumbed down(so easy a caveman can do it) or closer to 2E, Its relatively easy but most of your real options are RP options and not mechanics. Or 3e you need a dozen books to make a character and the rules are spread all over the place haphazard?
    Everything you need to run is in the one book, and the core system is a stripped down 5e with some narrative elements. There's also rotating GM stuff, but that's ignorable and I believe most people do. The combat and matrix rules are stripped down, to the point where deckers are intentionally viable characters if you keep hacking scenes short enough.

    It's stripped down arguably more than D&D5e is, but in a much better way. No long lists of spells or character abilities, you have five Attributes plus Edge, a condensed skill list, a handful of Shadow Amps, and a bunch of Cues (things you might say), Tags (one word notes about what your character is), and Dispositions (short phrases to fefine how your character thinks). The last three are mainly about prompting you to roleplay consistently and give you an idea if you get stuck.

    Shadow Amps are your spells, adept powers, drones, cyberware, special items, or whatever. While there is a premade list of examples you're encouraged to make your own with a system where a single point (two for bioware) gives you a simple description ('filters poison gas'), and each additional point invested allows you to add a mechanical effect such as additional dice to certain Attributes or Skills, rerolling dice with certain attributes or skills, dealing damaging, giving you the Reaction Enhancement benefits, or other things. It workds really nicely and lets players have what they want without checking book X to find the stats.

    You also can't stack effects from different amps, the book is clear on that.

    A downside is that you can only have six skills and six amps as written. I suggest ignoring the skill limit, it's unlikely to break anything, but if you break the shadow amp limit just keep an eye out for magicians and adepts using it to buy a lot of amps.

    And beware +Agility, if you're not a spellcaster or hacker you want it (and those two want a bit anyway to avoid attacks). It's basically the best thing to grab on an Amp for combat purposes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    On 5e limits, with combat being a notable portion of SR I remember swiftly running into nonsensical scenarios due to the Accuracy stat on weapons crippling certain weapons, often in a way that shredded verisimilitude. What’s better for hitting the total defense physAD in the hallway? Shotgun or sniper rifle? Well since the shotgun has an accuracy of 4, if the physAD rolls 4+ hits on their dodge the shotgun’s roll doesn’t matter. 16 dice physAD gets that 83% of the time, 20 dice 94%, and I’d be willing to wager (on my hazy memory) that 20 is lowballing a dodgy adept.
    Limits are there to limit your character's skill influence on accuracy. Shotguns can still perform better than sniper rifles in the aforementioned situation by using the choke rules to reduce the adept's defense dice by 5. And yes, a good (good, not average) physad rolls about 20-22 dice for Full Defense if they try hard enoughwhich means they have a 50% chance to dodge your Sniper Rifle with 7 Accuracy (if you even can shoot that well).

    Thing is, you can very easily have a shotgun which has 6-7 Accuracy and imposes a -5 to dodge on the target, which should make you about even with that adept. Sniper rifles can get 9-10 accuracy, but never get good burst unless they're DMRs, and that comes with reduced damage, accuracy and AP.
    Elezen Dark Knight avatar by Linklele
    Favourite classes: Beguiler, Scout, Warblade, 3.5 Warlock, Harbinger (PF:PoW).
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

  25. - Top - End - #1075
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2016

    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    3rd then. Priority or prebuild characters. No decking, rigging, or summoning.

    Seriously best house rule I ever saw was that the group got two contacts, decker and rigger. You give them money and they generally come through based on how much you paid = how much they'll risk. No double crossing, ever. Worked like a charm.
    This.
    For first time players, I have 10-20 pregens lying around concept-built from portraits found on the net, and I make the players choose the picture of the character they want to play.

    Other suggestions:
    - Don't try to learn all the rules at once. Figure out what you want to use, and build from there.
    - Start at street level. Once the players get the hang of the system and start to abuse it, the grittiness of their first fondly remembered sessions will quickly fade.
    - Use heavy flavor text for the first few astral jaunts. (Suggested reading: Never Deal with a Dragon, Burning Bright).
    - Also, no grounding spells/effects from the astral, except through active spells/foci.
    - Start working on introduction dates for various cyberware/gear. The point is to always have new exciting options instead of having a single list that immediately lets the players spot the best stuff. Keep it fresh and exciting.
    - Find the permanent injury rules and use them. It adds a marvellous experience for those players that are used to playing D&D. (Now there's actually a reason why that character has a cyberarm.)
    - Once you get get a bit more sandboxy, obtain at least a vague familiarity with the rules for legal codes and concealment factors for gear. (No, your Troll merc cannot smuggle a Panther assault cannon past the bouncer, and here is what happens if the cops find out.)
    -
    What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder, stronger, in a later edition.
    -

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