Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2007

    Default d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    Many rpg systems such as BRP and GURPS have a (often free download) condensed version of their rules. I personally think that such an edition should exist for D&D; one of the things that will not attract new players (or old 2nd ed players like myself) is the complexity of the rules. Players could use the condensed set for a while and then move the more complex rules (this saves buying 3 expensive books as well).

    One such method would be to have a rules set that covers low levels, like 1-5. Most of the complexity seems to arise at higher levels. This approach was taken with the 'blue box' edition in 2nd ed, which only went from level 1 to 3 (though it included stats for much tougher monsters, which led me always to wonder how on Earth you were supposed to fight them).

    Stuff I'd take out:

    - Anything above 5th level; rules for higher level abilities just won't be there so each character class entry and the spell list will be a lot shorter.
    - Feats that shouldn't be available to lvl 1-5 characters because of high prerequisites and long feat trees. I know its possible to get certain feats by using complex prestige classes, and that's fine for 'expert' players, but reducing the number of feats speeds up play and character creation.
    - Simplify the attacks of opportunity rules.
    - Remove the more powerful magic items that are outside of lvl 1-5 WBL, except for 'iconic' ones like the Holy Avenger sword.
    - Have a condensed monster list which includes fewer monsters, with higher CR ones again limited to 'iconic' monsters like the beholder, mind flayer, dragons, mythical beasts etc.

    The new list should be compatible with the full rules; so if the DM wants to use a creature from the MM VI or feats from Oriental Adventures they can, but new players will not be drowning in new rules. The magic items and monster stats only really need to be available to the DM for the vast majority of the time, so if only the DM has read the full rules that should work ok provided he is fair on the 'rules lite' players (e.g. by not using feats against them that they don't know about).

    I may write this up using the SRD. As I wrote this I realised that this is really a modernised way to do 2nd Ed; but one reason to do such a condensed rule set for d20 is to attract 2nd Ed players by making the number of new rules to learn much smaller.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    Castles and Crusades is exactly what you're looking for.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    Quote Originally Posted by RamrodTheWizard View Post
    Castles and Crusades is exactly what you're looking for.
    Not really, C&C is a cut-down version of AD&D 1st edition. Not a lot that's recognisable in the current incarnation of D&D in there.

    True20 is closer to the mark; it removes AoO altogether and simplifies the classes down to just three. But then it also has a damage save in place of hitpoints, and uses a completely different magic system. Plus there's the Conviction mechanic, which is not unlike Drama Points in Buffy or any other form of dramatic editing mechanic.
    Wushu Open Reloaded
    Actual Play: The Shadow of the Sun (Acrozatarim's WFRP campaign) as Pawel Hals and Mass: the Effecting - Transcendence as Russell Ortiz.
    Now running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia 300BC.
    In Sanity We Trust Productions - our podcasting site where you can hear our dulcet tones, updated almost every week.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    RVA

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    If you want players to have less low-level complications, have everyone roll NPC classes. That would be a great introduction the game, and cut out a lot of the decisions as far as feats, spells, etc, while still giving the basic flavor. Moreover, NPC classes are limited in what monsters they could fight, so you'll probably stick with the iconic low-level favorites: animals, goblins, orcs, kobolds, etc.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Elana's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    The problem with a free lite version, is that it would hand out the only two things that aren't free already.

    Character creation and Experience awards.
    (You need that even to get to level 2 after all)

    So as long as the core books can be sold at all, it would be a bad idea to publish anything like that.
    Remember: I'm always right.
    Unfortunately reality tends to make mistakes.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Diggorian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    Yeah, seems to me those other systems put out a rules light version to keep up with D&D's SRD cause they're in danger. The OGL nearly gives out the D20 for free. A rules light version is simply, as demonstrated, ignoring the options of D&D you dont want.

    With free XP generators and Monster filters, the PHB's character making rules and SRD are all one really needs.
    Da Dominion: blog of belly laffs and a GM (Gamer Media) podcast. Sharp Humor for a Dull World.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Kanagawa, Japan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    Indeed. D&D already has a 'Rules Light' version, it's called The Dungeons & Dragons Basic Game.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Carnegie Mellon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    Amen, Matthew. I cut my teeth on the D&D Basic Game. (Remember the A in AD&D stood for "Advanced".)

    Now, anybody used to second edition rules will find the relative simplicity of 3rd edition a welcome relief.
    My Red Hand of Doom campaign journal: Part I, Part II
    Love the Third Amendment?

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    NC

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    It was only free for a day, but Green Ronin's True20 is the closest to a lite version of 3.x. It only has three classes, does away with XP and gold, and vastly simplifies spellcasting while leaving room for creativity.

    If that's not lite enough you might try Wushu.

    Quote Originally Posted by kjones View Post
    Now, anybody used to second edition rules will find the relative simplicity of 3rd edition a welcome relief.
    Not sure I agree, in many ways second edition was simpler than third. Proficiencies instead of skills, no feats, no prestige classes - simpler.
    Last edited by Raum; 2007-07-23 at 07:52 AM.
    -
    I laugh at myself first, before anyone else can.
    -- Paraphrased from Elsa Maxwell
    -
    The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you.
    -- Paul Graham in Keep Your Identity Small

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Kanagawa, Japan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    Indeed. It's all relative. Stripped down AD&D was very simple, but the sheer volume of Optional Rules could make it very complicated. Stripped down D&D 3.x is not quite as simple as stripped down AD&D, but it is a more streamlined implementation of many of the Optional Rules.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Somerville, MA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    I think Rules Lite is just the PHB.
    If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Diggorian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    Quote Originally Posted by Raum View Post
    It was only free for a day, but Green Ronin's True20 is the closest to a lite version of 3.x. It only has three classes, does away with XP and gold, and vastly simplifies spellcasting while leaving room for creativity.

    Being free doesnt make it "rules light" and True20 aint free. The D&D Basic Game is ... the Basic game. True20 differs too much from D&D to be a lighter version of it, simpler rules but not D&D with less rules.
    Da Dominion: blog of belly laffs and a GM (Gamer Media) podcast. Sharp Humor for a Dull World.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    The Prince of Cats's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Milton Keynes, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    You could try Microlite 20 for a really cut back version. The magic system is cut down too.

    To be fair, it is not the worst cut-down version I have ever seen, but it does help if you know the real game...

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    NC

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggorian View Post
    Being free doesnt make it "rules light" and True20 aint free. The D&D Basic Game is ... the Basic game. True20 differs too much from D&D to be a lighter version of it, simpler rules but not D&D with less rules.
    You misread my post if you thought I said it was free now or equated free with rules lite. As for being D&D with less rules, that's exactly what it is. It's certainly a different game published by a different company, but it is simply d20 cut down. One of it's advantages is the familiarity to those who already know d20.
    -
    I laugh at myself first, before anyone else can.
    -- Paraphrased from Elsa Maxwell
    -
    The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you.
    -- Paul Graham in Keep Your Identity Small

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Diggorian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    I see Raum, True 20 was free for a day. Gotcha.

    True20 though isnt D&D much at all. It's a generic system for more varied settings, whereas D&D does fantasy exclusively. A lighter version of the D20 system, maybe, but D&D isnt the D20 system -- just one of the games that uses it. This is all I'm say'in.

    The OP calls for a rules light D20 D&D, which is fulfilled by the D&D Basic Game.
    Da Dominion: blog of belly laffs and a GM (Gamer Media) podcast. Sharp Humor for a Dull World.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggorian View Post
    True20 aint free.
    It was for several days, that's when I snagged my copy from Green Ronin.

    Levi Kornelsen's Perfect20 is free. That's another cut-down D20 with no classes.
    Wushu Open Reloaded
    Actual Play: The Shadow of the Sun (Acrozatarim's WFRP campaign) as Pawel Hals and Mass: the Effecting - Transcendence as Russell Ortiz.
    Now running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia 300BC.
    In Sanity We Trust Productions - our podcasting site where you can hear our dulcet tones, updated almost every week.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Diggorian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: d20 D&D needs a Rules Lite version

    Wish I snagged it free.

    It's a good book but I've only been able to use it as a source of variant material. I considered making a Star Trek game using it but the players voted for a Fantasy campaign. D&D is our default for that genre.
    Da Dominion: blog of belly laffs and a GM (Gamer Media) podcast. Sharp Humor for a Dull World.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •