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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Is there a way to apply both the Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial templates to a single creature? What i'm thinking is that maybe it could work by getting a Half-Celestial with the Human Heritage feat and cast Call forth the beast on it. After which when it wakes up cast the Nar Fiendbond spell on it which unless I'm getting something wrong should make it have the Half-Celestial and Half-Fiend templates at the same time. Are there any other ways?

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    You could also begin as a Half Celestial and take 10 levels of Fiend-Blooded.
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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    There's also the Half-Fiend template class, which a Half-Celestial turned nongood can take, and the Half-Celestial transition class, which a Half-Fiend Aasimar turned nonevil can take.

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    There's nothing I can see on the SRD saying the templates conflict. A Neutral Human should be able to have both. You can still apply one after the other. Neither care if you're already an outsider.

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Remuko View Post
    There's nothing I can see on the SRD saying the templates conflict. A Neutral Human should be able to have both. You can still apply one after the other. Neither care if you're already an outsider.
    Don't forget that either template changes your alignment to evil/good. Maybe apply Dark in between to shift your alignment back to neutral?
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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Don't forget that either template changes your alignment to evil/good. Maybe apply Dark in between to shift your alignment back to neutral?
    Does it? I see a section that looks like the monster manual entries for alignment but nothing saying it actually changes it. Always Good/Evil (Any) doesn't mean you must be Good/Evil. Nothing in the text says it shifts your alignment.

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Don't forget that either template changes your alignment to evil/good. Maybe apply Dark in between to shift your alignment back to neutral?
    Even though the templates change the critter's alignment, that does not matter for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites to allow the templates to be applied.

    Also, if you're the GM, just do it, regardless of prerequisites or RAW, and say its an aspect of the metaphysics of your setting that this is a thing that can happen.

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Make the creature have 3 halves: a half-celestial half-red dragon half-fiend is perfectly legal. Many other templates work just as fine.
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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Searing Seed - 8th level Corrupt spell from Dragon #300 - cause victim in 1d3 rounds to birth an "Evil twin" with Half-Fiend template
    Last edited by ShurikVch; 2017-01-30 at 08:23 AM.

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Searing Seed - 8th level Corrupt spell from Dragon #300 - cause victim in 1d3 rounds to birth an "Evil twin" with Half-Fiend template
    Holy sheep, what a find!
    This foul spell calls upon the seed of an unknown evil outsider. The seed manifests as a surging beam of black and red fluid that arcs out of your fingers to strike the targeted creature.
    This is the first time the thought of hurling sperm of an evil outsider at my enemies crossed my mind.

    I also have a new favourite spell to put into potions whenever I decide to label them as "Cure Moderate Wounds".
    Last edited by Uncle Pine; 2017-01-30 at 09:32 AM.
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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Pine View Post
    This is the first time the thought of hurling sperm of an evil outsider at my enemies crossed my mind.
    Can I sig this?

    And sorry to break it to you, but I'm fairly sure an 8th-level spell can't be put in a potion.
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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    And sorry to break it to you, but I'm fairly sure an 8th-level spell can't be put in a potion.
    Faerūnian Master Alchemist is able to brew potions with spells of higher levels - up to 9th

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Can I sig this?

    And sorry to break it to you, but I'm fairly sure an 8th-level spell can't be put in a potion.
    Sig it right away, comrade.

    And an 8th level Master Alchemist (Magic of Faerun) can put 8th level spells in potions. EDIT: Ninja'd.
    Last edited by Uncle Pine; 2017-01-30 at 12:53 PM.
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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Searing Seed - 8th level Corrupt spell from Dragon #300 - cause victim in 1d3 rounds to birth an "Evil twin" with Half-Fiend template
    I know of the spell and it is actually one of my favorites but unfortunately the base creature would be good therefore not being subject to the Half fiend template or if the Half fiend template takes priority due to the spell then it would be the opposite. It could though be used on my idea instead of Nar fiendbond.

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Okay I guess no one will address my last post. I was hoping someone would confirm that my interpretation was right or wrong and why.

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Remuko View Post
    Does it? I see a section that looks like the monster manual entries for alignment but nothing saying it actually changes it. Always Good/Evil (Any) doesn't mean you must be Good/Evil. Nothing in the text says it shifts your alignment.
    When a template specifies a thing, it means that thing is a change from the base creature. Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial specify alignment, therefore they change alignment.

    A creature that is "Always [alignment]" is [alignment] by default but can change its alignment.

    So yes, Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial change your alignment, but you can change it back -- or, DM allowing, have changed it in your backstory.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Malimar View Post
    When a template specifies a thing, it means that thing is a change from the base creature. Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial specify alignment, therefore they change alignment.

    A creature that is "Always [alignment]" is [alignment] by default but can change its alignment.

    So yes, Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial change your alignment, but you can change it back -- or, DM allowing, have changed it in your backstory.
    Always is called out as meaning "almost always" so an evil half-celestial that was never good, ever, does not conflict with the "always good" alignment.

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Malimar View Post
    When a template specifies a thing, it means that thing is a change from the base creature. Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial specify alignment, therefore they change alignment.

    A creature that is "Always [alignment]" is [alignment] by default but can change its alignment.

    So yes, Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial change your alignment, but you can change it back -- or, DM allowing, have changed it in your backstory.
    Clarification: since most characters get their first chance to act after they get out of the womb/egg/whatnot, this means that "changing your alignment back" isn't really an option in this case since both templates are inherited.
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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Right, both Half-templates are inherited templates. What they not do, is add [Good] or [Evil] as a subtype. You can get those if you use the rituals in Savage Species, but it's not an assumed thing.

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by ZamielVanWeber View Post
    Always is called out as meaning "almost always" so an evil half-celestial that was never good, ever, does not conflict with the "always good" alignment.
    This is how I took it as well.

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by ZamielVanWeber View Post
    Always is called out as meaning "almost always" so an evil half-celestial that was never good, ever, does not conflict with the "always good" alignment.
    "Almost always" is not exactly what the rules say "Always" means, though. It's more specific than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by MMI: Glossary: Alignment
    Always: The creature is born with the indicated alignment. The creature may have a hereditary predisposition to the alignment or come from a plane that predetermines it. It is possible for individuals to change alignment, but such individuals are either unique or rare exceptions.
    Emphasis mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Pine View Post
    Clarification: since most characters get their first chance to act after they get out of the womb/egg/whatnot, this means that "changing your alignment back" isn't really an option in this case since both templates are inherited.
    Right, unless you get the template through the other methods mentioned upthread. (Except I just checked out Fiend-Blooded and it doesn't appear to give you the Half-Fiend template, so ???)
    Last edited by Malimar; 2017-01-30 at 06:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Pine View Post
    Make the creature have 3 halves: a half-celestial half-red dragon half-fiend is perfectly legal. Many other templates work just as fine.
    I'm pretty sure it's not too hard to add half-troll, half-vampire, half-golem in there. And there's no base creature yet, half-elf.
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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    I'm pretty sure it's not too hard to add half-troll, half-vampire, half-golem in there. And there's no base creature yet, half-elf.
    You could also add 50 more dragon halves (or more!).
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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Pine View Post
    You could also add 50 more dragon halves (or more!).
    A family history of dragon rape.

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiri View Post
    A family history of dragon rape.
    Those poor dragons!
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Question Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Malimar View Post
    Right, unless you get the template through the other methods mentioned upthread. (Except I just checked out Fiend-Blooded and it doesn't appear to give you the Half-Fiend template, so ???)
    20 levels in the Mountebank class (Dragon Compendium)?

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    you can have a lesser aasimar half-fiend or a lesser tiefling half-celestial

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    Default Re: Half-Fielestial Possible? 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    20 levels in the Mountebank class (Dragon Compendium)?
    Or 12 levels in Disciple of Ashardalon (Draconomicon) - assuming it's available to Half-Celestial Dragon

    Notes:
    Half-Fiend template was based on 2e demon-mortal hybrids - such as Alu-Fiend and Cambion; but Cambion was printed for 3.5 in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits:

    So, how about Half-Celestial Cambion?

    Also, by one of theories, Concordant Killers (Monster Manual IV) were produced as a result of Celestial/Fiend crossbreeding


    And certainly, it's the origin story of Infernals: Some Good god had a bit of good time with one hot fiend...

    Last edited by ShurikVch; 2017-02-01 at 11:46 AM.

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