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    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default New vestige: Echidna and numerous monsters (PEACH)

    So I read in Dungeon #148 that the goddess Echidna, from Greek mythology, was trapped in the Wells of Darkness in the Abyss. Since creatures trapped in the Wells of Darkness count as vestiges, I decided to do an Echidna vestige. Since her primary ability is to summon her children as a summon monster spell, I had to populate 9 levels of summoned Greek monsters. This required considerable creation of new monsters, so I would appreciate some feedback on this. I'm not real good at judging power levels of monsters, so I'd like to know if 1) the CRs are reasonable and 2) they are reasonable at the summon monster level given. In particular the harpy siren seems like the save DCs are kind of high.

    Abbreviations used: CC = Complete Champion, MIC = Magic Item Compendium, Sa = Sandstorm, SS = Savage Species, SpC = Spell Compendium.

    Spoiler: Speak With Monsters spell
    Show

    Divination
    Level: Brd 4, Clr 6, Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 5
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: 10 minutes/level
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No

    The target can communicate with any type of creature that has a language, even a nonverbal language such pheromones, color changes, or sign language. The target understands all languages, even nonverbal ones, but may only "speak" in any one such language at a time; all those present within hearing range understand the target's speech as if it were in the chosen language—this is an obviously magical effect (the target may also use spoken languages, sign languages, and so forth normally if anatomy permits, and thus this spell may be used to augment spells such as polymorph for purposes of disguise).

    This spell enables neither comprehension nor production of permanent communications mediums such as writing, Braille, or quipu.


    Spoiler: Echidna, the Mother of Monsters
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    Echidna, the banished Mother of Monsters, grants her summoners the ability to summon and communicate with her children.

    Vestige Level: 4th
    Binding DC: DC 20
    Special Requirement: No

    Legend: Echidna was a goddess of monsters who lived in a cave and preyed upon passers-by. Her children were all bestial monsters of various sorts. Some of these monsters were given tasks by the gods, while others became menaces to humanity. Eventually, she attempted to free prisoners of the Wells of Darkness in the Abyss, only to become caught in them herself.
    Manifestation: The head of a large snake appears within the circle, with the neck stretching back out of view; the snake writhes, bringing more and more of it into view, until suddenly, the snake's body turns into the upper half of a beautiful woman. When Echidna speaks, the snake's mouth moves, but the voice of a woman can be heard, asking the summoner who he is.
    Sign: A fanged mouth, like that of a large snake, appears on your torso. The mouth can be hidden by normal clothing. (If you already have a torso mouth, such as Dantalion's sign, it grows snake fangs instead.)
    Influence: You look upon dangerous bestial monsters as cute children. Echidna demands that you attack no such creature unless it attacks you first.
    Granted Abilities:
    Echidna's Blessing: By touch, you may bestow the combined effect of greater magic fang and align fangSpC on a target; this is a harmless effect that allows a Will save. The effect lasts for 1 minute per effective binder level.
    Monster Rearing: You gain a +10 competence bonus to Handle Animal checks, and may use the Handle Animal skill untrained. Furthermore, the DC to use the Handle Animal skill on any creature of the magical beast type or the augmented magical beast subtype is treated as if it were being used on an animal (that is, it does not increase by 5 as usual).
    Mother of Monsters: Any creature of the magical beast type, monstrous humanoid type, augmented magical beast subtype, or augmented monstrous humanoid subtype must succeed at a Will save to attack you. Once a creature makes it save, it is immune to this ability for 24 hours. You must display Echidna's sign in order to use this ability.
    Poisonous Bite: The bite of your snake mouth deals 1d4 damage if you are small or 1d6 damage if you are medium, plus a poison that deals 1d6 Str/1d6 Str. You must display Echidna's sign in order to use this ability.
    Speak With Monsters: You can communicate with any creature of the magical beast type, monstrous humanoid type, augmented magical beast subtype, or augmented monstrous humanoid subtype as if speak with monsters was continually active upon you.
    Summon Echidna's Spawn: You can summon certain monsters as if you were casting a summon monster spell. The monsters available depend on your effective binder level. Instead of summoning 1 monster, you may summon 1d3 monsters from one summon level lower than your actual effective binder level, or 1d4+1 monsters from two summon levels lower. Once you have used this ability, you may not use it again for 5 rounds.

    Code:
    EBL       SL   Monsters
    1st-3rd   I    Myrmekes worker*, stirge 
    4th-5th   II   Cerastes*, myrmekes drone* 
    6th-7th   III  Hippogriff, myrmekes soldier* 
    8th-9th   IV   Caucasian eagle*, harpy, myrmekes queen*, orthrus* 
    10th-11th V    5-headed hydra, basilisk, hieracosphinx, lamia 
    12th-13th VI   Chimera, criosphinx, manticore, medusa 
    14th-15th VII  8-headed hydra, androsphinx, gorgon, lamia noble* 
    16th-17th VIII 10-headed hydra, cerberus*, harpy archer, medusa bard* 
    18th+     IX   12-headed hydra, androsphinx cleric*, harpy siren*, nemean lion*
    *Monster detailed below.

    Tooth of Echidna: A large serpent's fang. You can use speak with monsters once per day. Moderate divination; CL 7th; Price 10,080 gp.


    The following feat is used by some of the monsters:

    Skilled [General]
    You learn new skills easily.
    Benefit: You gain an extra 3 skill points immediately when you take this feat, plus 1 skill point per Hit Die. Each time you gain a Hit Die (such as by gaining a level), you gain 1 additional skill point.
    Special: A character may gain this feat multiple times. Its benefits stack.

    Spoiler: Androsphinx Cleric, 4th-Level Cleric
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    Large Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 12d10+4d8+80 (164 hp)
    Initiative: +4
    Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares), fly 80 ft. (poor)
    Armor Class: 27 (-1 Dex , +13 natural, +5 +1 cool chain shirt of improved agility, +1 deflection, -1 size), touch 9, flat-footed 27
    Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+28
    Attack: Claw +24 melee (2d4+10)
    Full Attack: 2 claws +24 melee (2d4+10)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Pounce, rake 2d4+5, roar
    Special Qualities: Cleric abilities, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision
    Saves: Fort +17, Ref +13, Will +16
    Abilities: Str 28, Dex 8, Con 20, Int 16, Wis 22 (26 with amulet), Cha 19
    Skills: Concentration +21, Intimidate +19, Knowledge (religion) +22, Listen +23, Spot +23, Survival +23
    Feats: Cleave, Good Devotion, Great Cleave, Flyby Attack, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, TrackB
    Environment: Warm deserts
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 13
    Treasure: Standard (including equipment)
    Alignment: Always chaotic good
    Advancement: By character class
    Level Adjustment: +7

    Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +24 melee, damage 2d4+5.
    Roar (Su): Three times per day an androsphinx can loose a mighty roar. The first time it does this, all creatures within 500 feet must succeed on a DC 22 Will save or be affected as though by a fear spell for 2d6 rounds.

    If the sphinx roars a second time during the same encounter, all creatures within 250 feet must succeed on a DC 22 Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4 rounds, and all those within 90 feet are deafened for 2d6 rounds (no save).

    If it roars a third time during the same encounter, all those within 250 feet must succeed on a DC 22 Fortitude save or take 2d4 points of Strength damage for 2d4 rounds. In addition, any Medium or smaller creature within 90 feet must succeed on a DC 22 Fortitude save or be thrown to the ground and take 2d8 points of damage. The force of this roar is so great that it deals 50 points of damage to any stone or crystalline object within 90 feet. Magic items and held or carried items can avoid damage with a DC 22 Reflex save.

    Other androsphinxes are immune to these effects. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
    Cleric Abilities: Good and Healing domains (good and healing spells cast at +1 caster level), spontaneous cure spells, turn undead 11 times/day.
    Typical Cleric Spells Prepared (6/6+1/6+1/5+1/5+1/3+1; save DC 18 + spell level): 0—create water, detect magic, detect poison, light, mending, read magic; 1st—comprehend languages, detect evil, divine favor, endure elements, remove fear, shield of faith, protection from evil*; 2nd—bull's strength, eagle's splendor, lesser restoration, remove paralysis, silence, zone of truth, aid*; 3rd—create food and water, dispel magic, remove blindness/deafness, remove curse, remove disease, magic circle against evil*; 4th—death ward, divine power, freedom of movement, neutralize poison, restoration, holy smite*; 5th—break enchantment, raise dead, righteous might, dispel evil*.

    *Domain spell. Domains: Good and Healing.
    Feats: The androsphinx cleric's Good DevotionCC feat allows him to take an immediate action to surround himself with an aura of good that grants him and each of his allies within 30 feet damage reduction 4/evil. In addition, he and his allies natural and weapon attacks are good-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. This effect lasts for 1 minute, and can be used once per day plus once per day per use of turn undead expended.
    Possessions: +1 coolSa chain shirt of improved agilityMIC (fitted for a large quadruped), amulet of mighty fists +1 and wisdom +4, ring of protection +1. (Different androsphinx clerics may have different possessions.)


    Spoiler: Caucasian Eagle
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    Large Magical Beast (Evil, Lawful)
    Hit Dice: 4d10+4 (26 hp)
    Initiative: +3
    Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares), fly 80 ft. (average)
    Armor Class: 17 (+3 Dex , +5 natural, -1 size), touch 12, flat-footed 14
    Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+12
    Attack: Claw +7 melee (1d6+4)
    Full Attack: 2 claws +7 melee (1d6+4) and bite +2 melee (1d8+2/19-20)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Dive, vitals attack
    Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/magic, evasion, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision
    Saves: Fort +5, Ref +7, Will +3
    Abilities: Str 18, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10
    Skills: Knowledge (nature) +2, Listen +6, Sense Motive +4, Spot +15, Survival +3
    Feats: Flyby Attack, Improved Critical (bite)
    Environment: Temperate mountains
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 4
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Always lawful evil
    Advancement: 5-8 HD (Large); 9-12 HD (Huge)
    Level Adjustment: +3 (cohort)

    This eagle is larger than a horse, with iron beak and talons stained the color of old blood.

    Caucasian eagles serve as torturers of the gods. The most notorious example of this was the titan Prometheus who was condemned to have a caucasian eagle tear out his liver every day. In order for their iron beak and talons to develop, they must feed on iron when growing and when preparing to lay eggs. At this time, they will attack or trade services with humanoids to obtain the metals that they need.

    Caucasian eagles speak Common.

    Caucasian eagles' claws and beak count as cold iron (as well as magic, lawful, and evil) for purposes of bypassing damage reduction.
    Dive (Ex): A caucasian eagle can make a dive attack. A dive attack works like a charge, but the eagle must fly a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. A caucasian eagle's dive attack allows it to attack with both claws for double damage.
    Vitals Attack (Ex): If a caucasian eagle scores a critical hit with its bite attack, it tears at the vitals of the foe for 1d4 points of Constitution damage.
    Evasion (Ex): With a successful Reflex save against an attack that allows a Reflex save for half damage, a caucasian eagle takes no damage.


    Spoiler: Cerastes
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    Medium Magical Beast (Good)
    Hit Dice: 2d10 (11 hp)
    Initiative: +7
    Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 5 ft., climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
    Armor Class: 15 (+2 Dex , +3 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 13
    Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+4
    Attack: Bite melee +4 (1d4+2 plus poison)
    Full Attack: Bite melee +4 (1d4+2 plus poison)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Constrict, improved grab, poison
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent, smell evil
    Saves: Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +1
    Abilities: Str 15, Dex 15, Con 11, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10
    Skills: Climb +10, Hide +7*, Listen+6, Spot +6, Swim +10
    Feats: Improved Initiative
    Environment: Temperate deserts
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 1
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Always neutral good
    Advancement: 3 HD (Medium); 4-6 HD (Large)
    Level Adjustment:

    This brown snake is over six feet long. It has a pair of small horns on its head.

    Cerastes are magical sacred horned snakes. They are harmless to non-evil humanoids, preferring to eat birds and other small animals that they have lured with their supernaturally flexible horns. When hunting for food, the cerastes burrows into the ground leaving only the horns exposed; it then wiggles the horns like worms in order to attract prey. When prey pounces on the "worms", the cerastes attacks with surprise. Unlike normal snakes which either rely on constriction or poison, the cerastes uses both attack forms in combat and hunting.

    Cerastes understand and can speak Common and one other language used by humanoids living nearby.

    Constrict (Ex): On a successful grapple check, a cerastes deals 1d3+2 points of damage.
    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a cerastes must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.
    Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 11, initial and secondary damage 1d4 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.
    Smell Evil (Su): A cerastes can detect evil creatures within 60 feet as if by scent.
    Skills: *A cerastes has a +4 racial modifier to Hide checks when in a desert or rocky environment. A cerastes has a +8 racial modifier to Climb and Swim checks (already factored into the statistics above). It may take 10 on Climb and Swim checks even when rushed or threatened.


    Spoiler: Cerberus
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    Large Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 12d10+72 (138 hp)
    Initiative: +7
    Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
    Armor Class: 22 (+3 Dex, +10 natural, -1 size), touch 12, flat-footed 19
    Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+24
    Attack: 3 bites +19 melee (1d8+8), tail bite +19 melee (1d2+8 plus poison)
    Full Attack: 3 bites +19 melee (1d8+8), tail bite +19 melee (1d2+8 plus poison)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Poison, trip
    Special Qualities: All-around vision, damage reduction 15/magic, darkvision 90 ft., fire immunity, scent, spell resistance 19
    Saves: Fort +14, Ref +13, Will +9
    Abilities: Str 27, Dex 17, Con 23, Int 2, Wis 17, Cha 6
    Skills: Hide -1 , Listen +24, Move Silently +3, Spot +24, Survival +3*
    Feats: Combat ReflexesB, Improved InitiativeB, Improved Natural Armor , Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Skilled, TrackB
    Environment: Temperate forests
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 9
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Usually neutral
    Advancement: -
    Level Adjustment: -

    This creature seems to be a dog the size of a horse with three canine heads, and serpent for a tail.

    Cerberuses can attack with all their heads at no penalty, even if they move or charge during the round.

    A cerberus can be killed either by severing all its heads or by slaying its body. (The serpent tail is considered to be a head for this purpose.) To sever a head, an opponent must make a successful sunder attempt with a slashing weapon. (The player should declare where the attack is aimed before making the attack roll.) Making a sunder attempt provokes an attack of opportunity unless the foe has the Improved Sunder feat. An opponent can strike at a cerberus' heads from any position in which he could strike at the cerberus itself, because the cerberus' heads writhe and whip about in combat. An opponent can ready an action to attempt to sunder an cerberus' head when the creature bites him.

    Each of a cerberus' heads has hit points equal to the creature's full normal hit point total, divided by its original number of heads. For example, if a four-headed (three dog heads plus the tail) cerberus has 138 hit points, 34 or more points of damage severs a head. Losing a head deals damage to the body equal to half the head's normal hit points. A natural reflex seals the neck shut to prevent further blood loss. A cerberus can no longer attack with a severed head but takes no other penalties.

    Any attack that is not (or cannot be) an attempt to sunder a head affects the body. For example, area effects deal damage to a cerberus' body, not its heads. Targeted magical effects cannot be used to sever an cerberus' heads (and thus must be directed at the body) unless they deal slashing damage and could be used to make sunder attempts.
    Poison (Ex): A cerberus' poison deals 1d6 Str+1d6 Con for both initial and secondary damage. The Fort save DC is 22 (Constitution based). The poison is the same as wolfsbane, only more concentrated (thus a higher save DC); if an infected lycanthrope is poisoned by a cerberus within an hour of its infection, it may reroll its failed save against lycanthropy.
    Trip (Ex): A cerberus that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent (+12 check modifier) as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the cerberus.
    All-Around Vision (Ex): Cerberuses are exceptionally alert and circumspect. Their many heads give them a +6 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks (already figured into the above statistics), and they can't be flanked.
    Skills: *Cerberuses have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent.
    Feats: A cerberus' Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.


    Spoiler: Harpy Siren, 7th-Level Siren (SS)
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    Medium Monstrous Humanoid
    Hit Dice: 7d8+7d4+42 (91 hp)
    Initiative: +3
    Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 80 ft. (average)
    Armor Class: 23 (+3 Dex , +1 natural, +6 +2 chain shirt, +3 {i]+1 heavy shield[/i]), touch 13, flat-footed 20
    Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+11
    Attack: +1 club +12 melee (1d6)
    Full Attack: +1 club +12/+7/+2 melee (1d6) and 2 claws +6 melee (1d3-1)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Captivating song, song of despair, song of idiocy, song of nightmare, song of weakness
    Special Qualities: Charisma bonus +4, darkvision 60 ft.
    Saves: Fort +11, Ref +12, Will +13
    Abilities: Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14 (16 with amulet), Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 26 (28 with cloak)
    Skills: Bluff +26, Diplomacy +11, Intimidate +17, Listen +5, Perform (ballad) +24, Sense Motive +1, Spot +1
    Feats: Armor Proficiency (light), Dodge, Flyby Attack, Great Fortitude, Persuasive, ReverberationB
    Environment: Temperate marshes
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 11
    Treasure: Standard (including equipment)
    Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
    Advancement: By character class
    Level Adjustment: +3

    Captivating Song (Su): When a harpy siren sings, all creatures (other than harpies) within a 300-foot spread must succeed on a DC 28 Will save or become captivated. This is a sonic mind-affecting charm effect. Any creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same harpy's song for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

    A captivated victim walks toward the harpy siren, taking the most direct route available. If the path leads into a dangerous area (through flame, off a cliff, or the like), that creature gets a second saving throw. Captivated creatures can take no actions other than to defend themselves. (Thus, a fighter cannot run away or attack, but takes no defensive penalties.) A victim within 5 feet of the harpy siren stands there and offers no resistance to the monster's attacks. The effect continues for as long as the harpy siren sings and for 1 round thereafter. A bard's countersong ability allows the captivated creature to attempt a new Will save.

    Song of Despair (Su): Once per day, the harpy siren can overlay a despair effect on her captivating song identical to that of a crushing despair spell. Those affected by the captivating song make their saving throws for that attack before resolving the despair effect. The Will save to resist this effect is 28. The save DC is Charisma-based. The despair effect lasts for 7 rounds.
    Song of Idiocy (Su): 7 times per day, the harpy siren can overlay an Intelligence-damaging effect on her captivating song. This is identical to the effect of the feeblemind spell, affects all creatures within range of the captivating song, and has instantaneous duration. The Will save to resist this effect has a DC of 28. The save DC is Charisma-based, and arcane spellcasters and creatures that use arcane spell-like abilities take a -4 penalty on their saves..
    Song of Nightmare (Su): 7 times per day, the harpy siren can overlay a terrifying effect on her captivating song. This is identical to the effect of the phantasmal killer spell, affects all creatures within range of the harpy siren's captivating song, and has instantaneous duration. The Will and Fortitude saves to resist this effect have a DC of 28. The save DC is Charisma-based.
    Song of Weakness (Su): 7 times per day, the harpy siren can overlay a level-draining effect on her captivating song. This identical to an enervation spell, except that all creatures within range of the harpy siren's captivating song are entitled to a Fortitude save to resist the effect, and it has instantaneous duration. The Fortitude save to resist this effect has a DC of 28. The save DC is Charisma-based.
    Charisma Bonus +4 (Ex): The harpy siren has a +4 inherent bonus to her Charisma score (already factored into the statistics above).
    Skills: Harpy sirens have a +4 bonus on Bluff and Listen checks (already factored into the statistics above).
    Feats: The harpy siren's ReverberationSS feat increases the save DC of its captivating song by +2 (already factored into the statistics above).
    Possessions: +2 chain shirt, +1 heavy wooden shield, +1 club, cloak of charisma and resistance +2, amulet of health +2. (Different harpy sirens may have different possessions.)


    Spoiler: Lamia Noble
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    Large Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 10d10+20 (75 hp)
    Initiative: +4
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
    Armor Class: 20 (+4 Dex , +7 natural, -1 size), touch 13, flat-footed 16
    Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+18
    Attack: Touch +13 melee (1d4 Wisdom drain) or short sword +13 melee (1d8+4/19-20)
    Full Attack: Touch +13 melee (1d4 Wisdom drain) or short sword +13/+8 melee (1d8+4/19-20) and tail slap +8 melee (1d8+4)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Constrict, improved grab, spell-like abilities, spells, Wisdom drain
    Special Qualities: Alternate form, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, spell resistance 18
    Saves: Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +7
    Abilities: Str 19, Dex 19, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 18
    Skills: Bluff +21, Concentration +15, Diplomacy +7, Disguise +14 (+16 acting), Hide +9, Intimidate +7, Spellcraft +15, Spot +15
    Feats: Combat Casting, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Skilled
    Environment: Temperate deserts
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 8
    Treasure: Double standard
    Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
    Advancement: 11-14 HD (Large); 15-30 HD (Huge)
    Level Adjustment: +7

    This creature seems to be a cross between a stunningly attractive human and an enormous snake. It looks human from the waist up, with the body of a snake below that.

    A lamia noble is between 8 and 12 feet long and weighs between 250 and 350 pounds. They are sometimes confused for yuan-ti due to their mix of human and snake body parts.

    Lamia nobles speak Common, Dwarvish, Elvish, Gnomish, and Halfling.

    A lamia noble prefers to hang back and let its minions (whether charmed creatures or ordinary lamias) engage the enemy while it casts spells or uses spell-like abilities from the rear lines. If possible, it will use mage armor, shield, mirror image, and eagle's splendor on itself before ambushing prey from invisibility.

    Constrict: A lamia noble deals 1d6+6 points of damage with a successful grapple check.
    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a lamia noble must hit a Large or smaller creature with its tail slap attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.
    Spell-like Abilities: At will—disguise self, ventriloquism; 3/day—charm monster (DC 18), major image (DC 17), mirror image, suggestion (DC 17); 1/day—deep slumber (DC 17). Caster level 10th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
    Spells: A lamia noble casts arcane spells as a 6th level sorcerer. (Note that this uses my revised sorcerer progression table, with the 1-level delay removed.)
    Typical sorcerer spells known (6/7/7/5; save DC 14 + spell level): 0—acid splash, caltropsSpC, daze, detect magic, prestidigitation, read magic, touch of fatigue; 1st—grease, mage armor, magic missile, shield; 2nd—detect thoughts, eagle's splendor, invisibility; 3rd—dispel magic, hold person
    Wisdom Drain (Su): A lamia noble drains 1d4 points of Wisdom each time it hits with its melee touch attack. (Unlike with other kinds of ability drain attacks, a lamia noble does not heal any damage when it uses its Wisdom drain.) Lamia nobles try to use this power early in an encounter to make foes more susceptible to charm monster and suggestion.
    Alternate Form (Su): A lamia noble can assume a human form. Lamia nobles use this ability to infiltrate human society in order to obtain wealth, comforts, and human prey.
    Skills: A lamia noble can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.

    A lamia noble has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

    Lamia nobles have a +4 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks (already factored into the statistics above).


    Spoiler: Medusa Bard, 7th-Level Bard
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    Medium Monstrous Humanoid
    Hit Dice: 6d8+7d6+39 (90 hp)
    Initiative: +3
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
    Armor Class: 22 (+3 Dex , +3 natural, +5 +1 chain shirt, +1 deflection), touch 14, flat-footed 19
    Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+10
    Attack: +1 shortbow +14 ranged (1d6+1/x3) or dagger +13 melee (1d4/19-20) or snakes +13 melee (1d4 plus poison)
    Full Attack: +1 shortbow +14/+9 ranged (1d6+1/x3) or dagger +13/+8 melee (1d4/19-20) and snakes +8 melee (1d4 plus poison)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Petrifying gaze, poison
    Special Qualities: Bard abilities, darkvision 60 ft.
    Saves: Fort +10, Ref +14, Will +11
    Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 20
    Skills: Bluff +18, Concentration +21, Diplomacy +7, Disguise +18 (+20 acting), Intimidate +7, Move Silently +12, Perform +21, Spellcraft +18, Spot +9
    Feats: Great Fortitude, Narrowed GazeSS, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Finesse
    Environment: Temperate marshes
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 11
    Treasure: Standard (including equipment)
    Alignment: Usually neutral evil
    Advancement: By character class
    Level Adjustment:

    Medusa bards use disguise self to appear human so as to catch their prey off guard, then manipulate them with charm spells and their bardic powers of suggestion. They use their minions to steal wealth and fight for them. When a medusa bard resorts to violence, she prefers to buff beforehand with eagle's splendor (which boosts both her bard spells and her petrifying gaze), expeditious retreat, blur, and invisibility to secure an ambush. She then uses her abilities intelligently, charming fighter types while petrifying rogue and mage types.

    Petrifying Gaze (Su): Turn to stone permanently, 30 feet, Fortitude DC 23 negates. The save DC is Charisma-based.
    Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 19, initial damage 1d6 Str, secondary damage 2d6 Str. The save DC is Constitution-based.
    Bard Abilities: Bardic knowledge +9, bardic music 7 times/day, countersong, fascinate, inspire competence, inspire courage +1, suggestion.
    Typical Bard Spells Known (3/5/3/1; save DC 15 + spell level): 0—detect magic, ghost sound, lullaby (DC 17), prestidigitation, read magic, summon instrument; 1st—charm person (DC 18), disguise self, expeditious retreat, silent image; 2nd—blur, eagle's splendor, hold person (DC 19), invisibility; 3rd—charm monster (DC 20), dispel magic.
    Feats: The medusa bard's Narrowed GazeSS feat allows her to limit her petrifying gaze to an active gaze only, preventing her from accidentally affecting her minions with her gaze.
    Possessions: +1 chain shirt, +1 shortbow, cloak of resistance +1, ring of protection +1, veil of allureSa. (Different medusa bards may have different possessions.)


    Spoiler: Myrmekes
    Show

    Myrmekes are a race of intelligent but non-speaking giant ants who mine, work metals, and hoard gold for their queen. There are four basic types of myrmekes: worker, drone, soldier, and queen.

    Spoiler: Myrmekes Drone
    Show

    Medium Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 2d10 (11 hp)
    Initiative: +2
    Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares), climb 20 ft., fly 60 ft. (poor)
    Armor Class: 14 (+2 Dex , +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 12
    Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+4
    Attack: Bite melee +5 (1d6+2)
    Full Attack: Bite melee +5 (1d6+2)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Improved grab
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent, smell gold
    Saves: Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +0
    Abilities: Str 15, Dex 15, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 2
    Skills: Climb +10, Listen+6, Spot +6, Survival +0*
    Feats: Alertness, TrackB, Weapon FinesseB
    Environment: Temperate deserts
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 1
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Always lawful neutral
    Advancement:
    Level Adjustment:

    This golden ant is the size of man. A large pair of membranous wings protrude from its back.

    Myrmekes drones live only for a short time and have the sole purpose of impregnating a virgin myrmekes queen; after that, they die. Unlike most other myrmekes, the drones have wings and can fly. They lack the aggressive response to gold common to other myrmekes, although if they smell gold they will home in on it because they know that a myrmekes queen will do the same and they will have a chance to mate.

    Myrmekes drones cannot understand or produce any spoken language. Instead, they communicate via clicks, leg rasps, body language, and pheromone releases.

    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a myrmekes drone must hit with its bite attack.
    Smell Gold (Su): Myrmekes drones have the ability to detect gold within 60 feet as if by scent.
    Skills: *Myrmekes drones have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent and a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. A myrmekes drone can always take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.


    Spoiler: Myrmekes Queen
    Show

    Large Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 6d10+6 (39 hp)
    Initiative: +1
    Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares), climb 20 ft., fly 60 ft. (poor)
    Armor Class: 17 (+1 Dex , +7 natural, -1 size), touch 10, flat-footed 16
    Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+14
    Attack: Bite melee +9 (1d8+4)
    Full Attack: Bite melee +9 (1d8+4)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Improved grab, spell-like abilities
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent, smell gold
    Saves: Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +4
    Abilities: Str 19, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 18
    Skills: Climb +12, Concentration +10, Listen +11, Spot +11, Survival +11*
    Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, TrackB
    Environment: Temperate deserts
    Organization: Colony (1 plus 10-100 workers and 5-20 soldiers)
    Challenge Rating: 4
    Treasure: Double standard
    Alignment: Always lawful neutral
    Advancement: 7-11 HD (Large); 12-18 HD (Huge)
    Level Adjustment:

    This creature is an ant the size of a bear, with a gold-colored carapace and adorned with gold jewelry. A pair of membranous wings emerges from its back.

    Myrmekes queens are the undisputed leaders of myrmekes colonies. The gold collection efforts of the entire colony are directed to making gold adornments for their queen. This is because gold adornments are how myrmekes queens determine their status relative to each other, which in turn determines the territory belonging to the colony.

    Myrmekes queens cannot understand or produce any spoken language. Instead, they communicate via clicks, leg rasps, body language, and pheromone releases.

    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a myrmekes queen must hit with its bite attack.
    Spell-Like Abilities: At will—detect magic; 3 times/day—aid, cure moderate wounds, dispel magic, lesser restoration, remove disease.
    Smell Gold (Su): Myrmekes queens have the ability to detect gold within 60 feet as if by scent.
    Skills: *Myrmekes queens have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent and a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. A myrmekes queen can always take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.


    Spoiler: Myrmekes Soldier
    Show

    Large Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 4d10+4 (26 hp)
    Initiative: +5
    Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares), climb 20 ft.
    Armor Class: 15 (+1 Dex , +5 natural, -1 size), touch 10, flat-footed 14
    Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+12
    Attack: Bite melee +7 (2d6+4)
    Full Attack: Bite melee +7 (2d6+4)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Acid sting, improved grab
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent, smell gold
    Saves: Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +1
    Abilities: Str 19, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 4
    Skills: Climb +12, Listen+4, Spot +4, Survival +6*
    Feats: Improved Initiative, Power Attack, TrackB
    Environment: Temperate deserts
    Organization: Solitary or gang (2-4)
    Challenge Rating: 2
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Always lawful neutral
    Advancement: 5-7 HD (Medium); 8-12 HD (Large)
    Level Adjustment:

    This creature is a golden ant the size of a horse. It has oversized mandibles and a protruding stinger that drips acid.

    Myrmekes soldiers cannot understand or produce any spoken language. Instead, they communicate via clicks, leg rasps, body language, and pheromone releases.

    Acid Sting (Ex): A myrmekes soldier has a stinger and an acid-producing gland in its abdomen. If it successfully grabs an opponent, it can attempt to sting each round (+7 attack bonus). A hit with the sting attack deals 1d6+2 piercing damage and 1d6 acid damage.
    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a myrmekes soldier must hit with its bite attack.
    Smell Gold (Su): Myrmekes soldiers have the ability to detect gold within 60 feet as if by scent.
    Skills: *Myrmekes soldiers have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent and a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. A myrmekes soldier can always take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.


    Spoiler: Myrmekes Worker
    Show

    Small Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 1d10 (5 hp)
    Initiative: +3
    Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares), climb 20 ft.
    Armor Class: 16 (+3 Dex , +2 natural, +1 size), touch 14, flat-footed 13
    Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-3
    Attack: Bite melee +4 (1d4)
    Full Attack: Bite melee +4 (1d4)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Improved grab
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent, smell gold
    Saves: Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +0
    Abilities: Str 11, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 4
    Skills: Climb +8, Craft or Profession (any one) +4, Listen +2, Spot +2, Survival +4*
    Feats: Skilled, TrackB, Weapon FinesseB
    Environment: Temperate deserts
    Organization: Gang (2-6) or crew (6-11 plus one myrmeke soldier)
    Challenge Rating: 1/2
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Always lawful neutral
    Advancement: 2 HD (Small); 3 HD (Medium)
    Level Adjustment:

    This creature is a golden ant the size of a dog.

    Myrmekes workers are the backbone of the colony. It is they who gather the materials, perform both skilled and unskilled labor, and sound the alarm when enemies—or gold-bearing humanoids—are sighted. Myrmekes workers are raised from birth to master their inborn instincts associated with a particular skill, such as mining or goldsmithing.

    Myrmekes workers cannot understand or produce any spoken language. Instead, they communicate via clicks, leg rasps, body language, and pheromone releases.

    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a myrmekes worker must hit with its bite attack.
    Smell Gold (Su): Myrmekes workers have the ability to detect gold within 60 feet as if by scent.
    Skills: *Myrmekes workers have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent and a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. A myrmekes worker can always take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.


    Spoiler: Nemean Lion
    Show

    Large Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 16d10+96 (184 hp)
    Initiative: +2
    Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
    Armor Class: 26 (+2 Dex, +15 natural, -1 size), touch 11, flat-footed 24
    Base Attack/Grapple: +16/+30
    Attack: Claw +26 melee (1d8+15, 19-20)
    Full Attack: 2 claws +26 melee (1d8+15/19-20) and bite +21 melee (1d8+5)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Improved grab, pounce, rake 1d8+10, sharp claws
    Special Qualities: Alternate form, damage reduction 15/magic, darkvision 90 ft., low-light vision, scent, spell resistance 21
    Saves: Fort +16, Ref +12, Will +11
    Abilities: Str 31, Dex 15, Con 23, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 14
    Skills: Bluff +21, Diplomacy +4, Disguise +2 (+4 acting), Hide +21*, Intimidate +4, Listen +25, Move Silently +25, Sense Motive +4, Spot +25, Survival +23
    Feats: Alertness, CleaveB, Improved Natural Attack (claw)B, Improved Natural Attack (rake)B, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Power Attack, Run, Skilled (x2)
    Environment: Warm plains
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 11
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
    Advancement: 17-32 HD (Large); 33-48 HD (Huge)
    Level Adjustment: -

    Nemean lions are crafty beasts quite capable of hunting for their sustenance, but they prefer the easier and more entertaining methods of hunting human livestock—and humans. A typical ploy consists of taking several women hostage, then using its alternate form ability to pretend to be a hurt woman escaped from the nemean lion's den. This allows the nemean lion to get close to would-be heroes easily, the better to catch them off-guard.

    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the nemean lion must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake.
    Pounce (Ex): If a nemean lion charges, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.
    Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +21 melee, 1d8+10 (19-20).
    Sharp Claws (Su): The claws (including the rear claws used for raking) of a nemean lion are the equivalent of +5 keen adamant weapons. It also gains Cleave, Improved Natural Attack (claws) and Improved Natural Attack (rake) as bonus feats.
    Alternate Form (Su): A nemean lion can assume the form of a human woman.
    Skills: Nemean lions have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks (already factored into the statistics above). *In areas of tall grass or heavy overgrowth, the Hide bonus improves to +8.


    Spoiler: Orthrus (advanced multiheaded wolf)
    Show

    Large Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 8d10+40 (84 hp)
    Initiative: +7
    Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
    Armor Class: 17 (+3 Dex, +5 natural, -1 size), touch 12, flat-footed 14
    Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+18
    Attack: 2 bites +12 melee (1d8+5)
    Full Attack: 2 bites +12 melee (1d8+5)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Trip
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 90 ft., scent
    Saves: Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +6
    Abilities: Str 19, Dex 17, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6
    Skills: Hide -1, Listen +15, Move Silently +3, Spot +15, Survival +2*
    Feats: Combat ReflexesB, Improved InitiativeB, Improved Natural Armor , Iron Will, Skilled, TrackB
    Environment: Temperate forests
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 5
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Usually neutral
    Advancement: -
    Level Adjustment: -

    This creature seems to be a dog the size of a horse with two heads.

    Orthruses can attack with all their heads at no penalty, even if they move or charge during the round.

    An orthrus can be killed either by severing all its heads or by slaying its body. To sever a head, an opponent must make a successful sunder attempt with a slashing weapon. (The player should declare where the attack is aimed before making the attack roll.) Making a sunder attempt provokes an attack of opportunity unless the foe has the Improved Sunder feat. An opponent can strike at an orthrus' heads from any position in which he could strike at the orthrus itself, because the orthrus' heads writhe and whip about in combat. An opponent can ready an action to attempt to sunder an orthrus' head when the creature bites him.

    Each of an orthrus' heads has hit points equal to the creature's full normal hit point total, divided by its original number of heads. For example, if a two-headed orthrus has 84 hit points, 42 or more points of damage severs a head. Losing a head deals damage to the body equal to half the head's normal hit points. A natural reflex seals the neck shut to prevent further blood loss. An orthrus can no longer attack with a severed head but takes no other penalties.

    Any attack that is not (or cannot be) an attempt to sunder a head affects the body. For example, area effects deal damage to an orthrus' body, not its heads. Targeted magical effects cannot be used to sever an orthrus' heads (and thus must be directed at the body) unless they deal slashing damage and could be used to make sunder attempts.
    Trip (Ex): An orthrus that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent (+8 check modifier) as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the orthrus.
    Skills: Orthruses have a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks (figured into the above statistics). *Orthruses have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent.
    Feats: An orthrus' Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.
    Note: A wolf was advanced to 6 HD and the multiheaded template from Savage Species was applied. Both ability score increases were applied to Dex. The nonelite array was used to lower Str and Con by 2 each and increase Wis and Dex by two each.
    Last edited by Hashmalum; 2017-02-06 at 11:29 AM. Reason: fixed more problems in androsphinx, harpy and medusa stat blocks

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New vestige: Echidna and numerous monsters (PEACH)

    On a first, quick read, I have to say that I greatly enjoy the appearance of any new vestiges. The binder is a lot of fun and it can always use more love. Looking over Echidna, though, I have a couple of questions.

    The Influence says that you regard "dangerous, bestial monsters as cute children." However, it doesn't say what kinds of monsters those are. A lot of things in D&D are dangerous. For instance, anything with a CR. And bestial to a minotaur is going to be very different from bestial to a human. Also, how my orc barbarian treats children is going to be very different from how my gnome cleric will. The clause about what you're allowed to attack is very clear, but is the first half of this quality supposed to be this subjective?

    Second, most vestiges have no more than four abilities, but Echidna has six. That's quite a stretch over the norm, especially since she can be found from such an early level. Was it really necessary to give her this many abilities, or could the nature of the vestige be illustrated with fewer abilities?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: New vestige: Echidna and numerous monsters (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ammutseba View Post
    On a first, quick read, I have to say that I greatly enjoy the appearance of any new vestiges. The binder is a lot of fun and it can always use more love. Looking over Echidna, though, I have a couple of questions.

    The Influence says that you regard "dangerous, bestial monsters as cute children." However, it doesn't say what kinds of monsters those are. A lot of things in D&D are dangerous. For instance, anything with a CR. And bestial to a minotaur is going to be very different from bestial to a human. Also, how my orc barbarian treats children is going to be very different from how my gnome cleric will. The clause about what you're allowed to attack is very clear, but is the first half of this quality supposed to be this subjective?
    Well, since I decided on "magical beast/monstrous humanoid" for purposes of the Mother of Monsters ability, it might be a good idea to have that as the key factor for the influence. The difference in treatment of children is fine, I think. The vestige colors how you perceive things, but you still determine how you react to the perception, and a certain amount of "tough love" (in the case of your orc barbarian) is probably in character for a monster goddess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ammutseba View Post
    Second, most vestiges have no more than four abilities, but Echidna has six. That's quite a stretch over the norm, especially since she can be found from such an early level. Was it really necessary to give her this many abilities, or could the nature of the vestige be illustrated with fewer abilities?
    There are a lot of vestiges with 6 abilities. But the poisonous bite and the mother of monsters are probably the most disposable of the abilities. The monster summoning is key to the concept of the vestige; Echidna is intended to be a sort of alternative to Zceryll, somewhat less powerful but available earlier, and perhaps suitable if the DM decides that Zceryll should be banned. I think there should probably be at least one vestige for any given skill, and the monster rearing ability helps fill that out. Speak with monsters is vital to communicate with the summoned monsters, and Echidna's blessing helps out with the fact that the summoned monsters mostly can't overcome magic DR on their own whereas normal summon monsters can (due to getting the DR from celestial/fiendish template). Poison bite though is pretty generic, and in combination with Echidna's influence (can't attack the monster unless attacked first) the protection from attack could actually be a hindrance. So yeah, this could definitely be cut down to 4 abilities.

    Finally, thank you very much for your reply! It's frustrating when I spend a bunch of time converting the formatting of my Word documents to BBcode and no one comments. I have numerous other vestiges done and posted but no one commented at all. I was wondering if people hate binder or my work was just that bad.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: New vestige: Echidna and numerous monsters (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hashmalum View Post
    Finally, thank you very much for your reply! It's frustrating when I spend a bunch of time converting the formatting of my Word documents to BBcode and no one comments. I have numerous other vestiges done and posted but no one commented at all. I was wondering if people hate binder or my work was just that bad.
    I like vestiges! And your work is quality - very thorough, very useful for actual play. I just happen to disappear for months on end without notice on occasion. If you've got others, do you mind pointing me to them?

    As for Echidna here... I thought summon monster used a chart to determine which monsters could be summoned by level? I suppose it would be more concise to ask, for example: if a Level 5 Binder uses Summon Echidna's Spawn, which monsters could he summon?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: New vestige: Echidna and numerous monsters (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooPaladin View Post
    I like vestiges! And your work is quality - very thorough, very useful for actual play. I just happen to disappear for months on end without notice on occasion. If you've got others, do you mind pointing me to them?

    As for Echidna here... I thought summon monster used a chart to determine which monsters could be summoned by level? I suppose it would be more concise to ask, for example: if a Level 5 Binder uses Summon Echidna's Spawn, which monsters could he summon?
    I'm sorry! The table of summoned monsters would not show up. I redid it so it looks ugly but at least it is visible. Anyway my old thread is http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...p-D-lore-PEACH. I've since done quite a few more I could post to that thread.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Purple
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: New vestige: Echidna and numerous monsters (PEACH)

    Very cool and well done. Very impressive. Echidna from Greek Mythology was one of my favorite monsters (I was a sucker for Hercules: Legendary Journeys and the episode with her was one of my faves but I'm digressing horribly here).

    I do see a few minor mistakes (all easily fixed).

    Harpy is looking a bit confusing. Her constitution is 16 with the amulet not 14 it seems. It's added to her hit points but not in her stat block.

    Con 14 (16 with amulet) Just listing +2 makes it look like the normal modifier, which confused me at first until I realized you hadn't listed her magic item in the stat block, just the bonus. I was doing the math on her hit points when I realized that she had another bonus that wasn't being accounted for.

    Also her specific armor and shield are missing from the stat block. She wears a +2 chain shirt (which has an armor bonus of +6) and carries a +1 heavy shield (which has an shield bonus of +3) .

    Armor Class: 23 (+3 Dex , +1 natural, +6 +2 chain shirt, +3 +1 heavy shield), touch 13, flat-footed 20

    When you are flat-footed, you lose your dexterity bonus to armor class as well as any Dodge bonus. So use the same calculation you would use for your normal armor class but don't include any bonuses from dexterity or dodge.


    DC for captivating song is 28 because of her cloak of charisma, which is missing from the DC save line so it looks like an error. Also it's missing in the saves for all her songs. They should all have DC 28 (+2 for her feat and +2 for the cloak).

    The attack lines don't mention she's using a +1 club. It's listed as a normal club.

    Attack: +1 club +12 melee (1d6)
    Full Attack: +1 club +12/+7/+2 melee (1d6) and 2 claws +6 melee (1d3-1)

    It's the devil in the details.

    If I see anything else, I'll let you know.

    EDITS

    Medusa's +1 shortbow is missing modifier to hit and damage in attack limes.

    Attack: +1 shortbow +14 ranged (1d6+1/x3) or dagger +13 melee (1d4/19-20) or snakes +13 melee (1d4 plus poison)
    Full Attack: +1 shortbow +14/+9 ranged (1d6+1/x3) or dagger +13/+8 melee (1d4/19-20) and snakes +8 melee (1d4 plus poison)

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2017-02-04 at 08:42 AM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: New vestige: Echidna and numerous monsters (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Very cool and well done. Very impressive. Echidna from Greek Mythology was one of my favorite monsters (I was a sucker for Hercules: Legendary Journeys and the episode with her was one of my faves but I'm digressing horribly here).

    I do see a few minor mistakes (all easily fixed).

    Harpy is looking a bit confusing. Her constitution is 16 with the amulet not 14 it seems. It's added to her hit points but not in her stat block.

    Con 14 (16 with amulet) Just listing +2 makes it look like the normal modifier, which confused me at first until I realized you hadn't listed her magic item in the stat block, just the bonus. I was doing the math on her hit points when I realized that she had another bonus that wasn't being accounted for.

    Also her specific armor and shield are missing from the stat block. She wears a +2 chain shirt (which has an armor bonus of +6) and carries a +1 heavy shield (which has an shield bonus of +3) .

    Armor Class: 23 (+3 Dex , +1 natural, +6 +2 chain shirt, +3 +1 heavy shield), touch 13, flat-footed 20

    When you are flat-footed, you lose your dexterity bonus to armor class as well as any Dodge bonus. So use the same calculation you would use for your normal armor class but don't include any bonuses from dexterity or dodge.


    DC for captivating song is 28 because of her cloak of charisma, which is missing from the DC save line so it looks like an error. Also it's missing in the saves for all her songs. They should all have DC 28 (+2 for her feat and +2 for the cloak).

    The attack lines don't mention she's using a +1 club. It's listed as a normal club.

    Attack: +1 club +12 melee (1d6)
    Full Attack: +1 club +12/+7/+2 melee (1d6) and 2 claws +6 melee (1d3-1)

    It's the devil in the details.

    If I see anything else, I'll let you know.

    EDITS

    Medusa's +1 shortbow is missing modifier to hit and damage in attack limes.

    Attack: +1 shortbow +14 ranged (1d6+1/x3) or dagger +13 melee (1d4/19-20) or snakes +13 melee (1d4 plus poison)
    Full Attack: +1 shortbow +14/+9 ranged (1d6+1/x3) or dagger +13/+8 melee (1d4/19-20) and snakes +8 melee (1d4 plus poison)

    Debby
    First of all, I would like to thank you very much for your kind words, and for taking the time and trouble to go over this monster's stat block in detail! That means a lot for me. However, I'm not entirely sure how you are calculating the save DCs. Going over the monster's base stats again, Charisma started with 15 (highest score of the elite array), +6 racial, +1 from ability gain on level up (the other level up ability gain went to Constitution), +4 inherent (gained from the siren class), +2 from the cloak. So the listed Charisma is wrong (oops); it should be Cha 26 (28 with cloak), for a total mod of +9. So for captivating song, the base DC is 10, +3 for half racial Hit Dice, +2 for Reverberation, +9 from Charisma, for a total of 24. (So I think I must have added the level up bonus to the DCs but not the base Cha stat.) Did you add half total HD (not just racial HD) to captivating song? Because looking at the hound archon hero's and harpy archer's stat block shows that WotC only adds half racial not total, so that's what I did. Now for the other songs... First, I made a mistake on song of idiocy, by failing to list the -4 penalty that arcane casters get (oops again). Siren song DC is 12(!) base, + class level (7), +Cha mod (9), for a total of 28. I did not count the reverberation feat because it states that it only applies to one sonic attack (in this case, the captivating song). There's some ambiguity here, though, because the siren songs are extra effects added to the captivating song, so it is possible to argue that the reverberation (captivating song) should apply to them as well. I decided, though, that if they had separate DCs that they needed to be boosted by separate feats.

    Good catch on the medusa, too. Thanks again! I have edited the original post to reflect that and the non-DC stuff on the harpy stats.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: New vestige: Echidna and numerous monsters (PEACH)

    Actually according to the most recent rules the DCs should also include Class HD. The Rules Compendium and later glossaries have full HD as the DC calculation. The SRD also states that the actual formula is 10 + 1/2 HD + creature's relevant ability modifier under Supernatural Abilities.

    The part of the SRD you took your "racial HD" is an explanation of how WotC arrived at their numbers for "most monsters" because most monsters don't have class levels. The Rules Compendium bears this out as it is the most recent rules and it uses this formula specifically: "Supernatural ability saving throw DC = 10 + 1/2 the creature’s HD + the modifier for the ability score on which the ability is based + other modifiers (often racial)." And by racial they really mean feats. I always note feats specifically in the text rather than just saying "racial" because it is more accurate. Those racial bonuses have to come from somewhere usually.

    As you will come to find out, there a ton of errors in the monster books (and anything WotC did).

    The DC for the harpy archer's captivating song should be 21 not 17. The hound archon hero's DC should be 21 as well. Shame on WotC for never fixing those.

    Also, if you don't scale the DC of the Supernatural abilities, the PCs eventually can simply Take 10 on them, making them pointless. Scaling can really make the difference sometimes. This is why I'm a bigger fan of CL=HD rather than an assigned CL for people new at monster creation.

    Where is gets even wonkier is the PC archon where the save for the aura of menace is "Will DC 15 + character’s Cha modifier" which is overpowered early on then becomes useless at high levels. I'm not a fan of those kinds of static saves usually. [Pathfinder fixed that as well and I love Pathfinder but I'm not as good with the rules. I know the 3.5 rules a lot better].

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2017-02-06 at 05:44 AM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: New vestige: Echidna and numerous monsters (PEACH)

    At last a noteworthy Cerberus for 3e

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: New vestige: Echidna and numerous monsters (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Actually according to the most recent rules the DCs should also include Class HD. The Rules Compendium and later glossaries have full HD as the DC calculation. The SRD also states that the actual formula is 10 + 1/2 HD + creature's relevant ability modifier under Supernatural Abilities.

    The part of the SRD you took your "racial HD" is an explanation of how WotC arrived at their numbers for "most monsters" because most monsters don't have class levels. The Rules Compendium bears this out as it is the most recent rules and it uses this formula specifically: "Supernatural ability saving throw DC = 10 + 1/2 the creature’s HD + the modifier for the ability score on which the ability is based + other modifiers (often racial)." And by racial they really mean feats. I always note feats specifically in the text rather than just saying "racial" because it is more accurate. Those racial bonuses have to come from somewhere usually.

    As you will come to find out, there a ton of errors in the monster books (and anything WotC did).

    The DC for the harpy archer's captivating song should be 21 not 17. The hound archon hero's DC should be 21 as well. Shame on WotC for never fixing those.

    Also, if you don't scale the DC of the Supernatural abilities, the PCs eventually can simply Take 10 on them, making them pointless. Scaling can really make the difference sometimes. This is why I'm a bigger fan of CL=HD rather than an assigned CL for people new at monster creation.

    Where is gets even wonkier is the PC archon where the save for the aura of menace is "Will DC 15 + character’s Cha modifier" which is overpowered early on then becomes useless at high levels. I'm not a fan of those kinds of static saves usually. [Pathfinder fixed that as well and I love Pathfinder but I'm not as good with the rules. I know the 3.5 rules a lot better].

    Debby
    OK, I edited the original post and updated the save DCs for the classed monsters (androsphinx cleric, harpy siren, and medusa bard). Also, I replaced the medusa bard's Ability Focus (gaze) with Narrowed Gaze, which she should have had all along (binders will still have to have their party take precautions if they summon the basilisk, harpy, harpy siren, or medusa though). Thanks again!

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